Calgary International Airport II

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

There is no actual "YYC-based fleet" currently, I don't even know what that means. The entire mainline fleet rotates through YYC with roughly equal frequency. Every MAX in the fleet this summer has flown to Europe from either YYZ or YHZ, for example... with variation to the degree that it almost seems intentional. To say 60 aircraft are stationed here is meaningless and it's therefore meaningless to say 100 aircraft will now be based here. There are some Encore tails that get pinned out east for a while but they eventually make it back. Of course if you nuke eastern flying they have no reason to be out there in the first place.

Maybe they mean the number of aircraft that RON (remain overnight) here will be going up by some margin. Note that this number is currently not near 60, nor would that be logistically possible given current and medium-term operational constraints.

I also don't get why the press release says "In return for the government’s investment, WestJet will create a hub at the Calgary International Airport"??
But from the sounds of Westjet's own release we can expect more European flying from YYC which is always nice.

Originally Posted by hehehe

I also don't get why the press release says "In return for the government’s investment, WestJet will create a hub at the Calgary International Airport"??
But from the sounds of Westjet's own release we can expect more European flying from YYC which is always nice.

They want to double the size of this operation and we're all looking out the window at the absolute disarray with the current ~130 flight operation going "how".

[Cage]

Originally Posted by hehehe

I also don't get why the press release says "In return for the government’s investment, WestJet will create a hub at the Calgary International Airport"??
But from the sounds of Westjet's own release we can expect more European flying from YYC which is always nice.

The full quote is:

WestJet also plans to build a single global connecting hub at YYC to enable more new destinations and frequencies to existing markets and launch multiple new long-haul international routes.

The net effect will be that YYZ won’t be a carbon copy of The AC YYZ ops. Expect the 789 will continue daily YYZ-LGW as will YVR-LGW summer seasonal, but not much else besides code-sharing with everyone but Star. YYZ south winter seasonal flying will be Swooped or Sunwinged. YYZ will continue mainline service for most transborder and transcontinental.

YEG got thrown under the Airbus with todays announcement. Pull down Swoop to force connections to the global hub. Let YEG n/s go to the ULCCs.
More mainline on YEG-YYC. Pull down YEG-YVR to local traffic only. Drop YEG-Hawaii to 2/week to OGG, everything else to the cow hub. As for the KL n/s to AMS, that’s some mighty fine traffic you got there…… be a shame if something were to get happen to it.

In YYC, DL & KL could easily transfer everything over WS. Virgin Atlantic is going Skyteam, there are onward connections for WS at LHR. WS could also flow European traffic over DL JFK hub. WS YYC-ICN could be the only time their 789 go TransPac.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by Cage

The full quote is:


The net effect will be that YYZ won’t be a carbon copy of The AC YYZ ops. Expect the 789 will continue daily YYZ-LGW as will YVR-LGW summer seasonal, but not much else besides code-sharing with everyone but Star. YYZ south winter seasonal flying will be Swooped or Sunwinged. YYZ will continue mainline service for most transborder and transcontinental.

YEG got thrown under the Airbus with todays announcement. Pull down Swoop to force connections to the global hub. Let YEG n/s go to the ULCCs.
More mainline on YEG-YYC. Pull down YEG-YVR to local traffic only. Drop YEG-Hawaii to 2/week to OGG, everything else to the cow hub. As for the KL n/s to AMS, that’s some mighty fine traffic you got there…… be a shame if something were to get happen to it.

In YYC, DL & KL could easily transfer everything over WS. Virgin Atlantic is going Skyteam, there are onward connections for WS at LHR. WS could also flow European traffic over DL JFK hub. WS YYC-ICN could be the only time their 789 go TransPac.

Thanks for the insight. I think YYZ-LGW is being dropped this October, but maybe it comes back next summer on the Max? I wonder why they hinted at Asia, maybe they take a stab at ICN like you said.

It's always nice to see your posts here every few months and I always look forward to hearing from you

All we can do is hope that KL will stay once WS starts AMS next year, given they clearly intend to run it long term. KL would be a terrible loss.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

They want to double the size of this operation and we're all looking out the window at the absolute disarray with the current ~130 flight operation going "how".

You'd need two other departure banks equal to the mid-morning bash to make that work. There are only so many flights to CUN and LGW you can feed and fill. I wonder how many more hangars Westjet plans to build to grow their maintenance ops. Maybe taking over the buildings to be vacated by Viking/De Havilland?

Or maybe if Rwy 26 closes then they can develop that space.

[People_talking]

I noticed they hinted that more European and Asian operations in the press release, how do you think they’re gonna make Europe and Asia work with only seven 787‘s?

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by People_talking

I noticed they hinted that more European and Asian operations in the press release, how do you think they’re gonna make Europe and Asia work with only seven 787‘s?

By consolidating the 787 fleet at YYC. WS has three hubs, and the 787s flew from all three of them. Now, they will all be out of one airport. Last summer, YYC had about 3 787s, YYZ/YVR had about 3 787s. Now, if YYC get all 7, that's more than doubling capacity for TATL in summer.

[YYCFlier]

Now for the fun prognostications on these frames for NS23. Assuming just a single turn daily, that's 49 YYC-XXX frequencies with some slack likely for IRROPS.

Presumably to LON we get daily to LGW and 4x weekly to LHR, or reverse = 11.
Daily CDG = 7.
Daily AMS if they can get slots = 7.
DUB 3x weekly = 3
FCO 4x weekly = 4

That's 32/49 slots used.

DUB or FCO could get more frequencies.
BCN seems likely since WS already has slots but not sure it would be daily.
Scotland is possible (GLA/EDI) as WS has slots.

Where else?
ATH, LIS, MAD, PRG, LIN?

Asia would presumably be ICN or NRT, DEL once Russian airspace reopens. But I kind of think any Asia is unlikely in S23.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

There is no actual "YYC-based fleet" currently, I don't even know what that means. The entire mainline fleet rotates through YYC with roughly equal frequency. Every MAX in the fleet this summer has flown to Europe from either YYZ or YHZ, for example... with variation to the degree that it almost seems intentional. To say 60 aircraft are stationed here is meaningless and it's therefore meaningless to say 100 aircraft will now be based here. There are some Encore tails that get pinned out east for a while but they eventually make it back. Of course if you nuke eastern flying they have no reason to be out there in the first place.

Maybe they mean the number of aircraft that RON (remain overnight) here will be going up by some margin. Note that this number is currently not near 60, nor would that be logistically possible given current and medium-term operational constraints.

If you include most of the Encore fleet as being "YYC based", then getting to 60 or 100 aircraft gets easier.

When I hear the term "base", it speaks to more about the pilots, FA's, and maintenance personnel and less about how many aircraft transit through the hub in one day.

That said, ace.yyc definition of base (aircraft that fly exclusively through a single hub airport) is used by some airlines. Ryanair, Easyjet, and the old Continental come to mind as airlines that base aircraft and crews out of a specific hub. Love the Gordon Bethune (CEO Continental) reference, "if the airplane doesn't flying to or from Newark, Houston Intercontinental, or Cleveland; the flight doesn't exist".

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

Now for the fun prognostications on these frames for NS23. Assuming just a single turn daily, that's 49 YYC-XXX frequencies with some slack likely for IRROPS.

Presumably to LON we get daily to LGW and 4x weekly to LHR, or reverse = 11.
Daily CDG = 7.
Daily AMS if they can get slots = 7.
DUB 3x weekly = 3
FCO 4x weekly = 4

That's 32/49 slots used.

DUB or FCO could get more frequencies.
BCN seems likely since WS already has slots but not sure it would be daily.
Scotland is possible (GLA/EDI) as WS has slots.

Where else?
ATH, LIS, MAD, PRG, LIN?

Asia would presumably be ICN or NRT, DEL once Russian airspace reopens. But I kind of think any Asia is unlikely in S23.

Wonder if they will re-look at Dubai. Westjet explored the idea a few years ago, but they would need a partner to connect into India, Pakistan, Bengladesh.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Wonder if they will re-look at Dubai. Westjet explored the idea a few years ago, but they would need a partner to connect into India, Pakistan, Bengladesh.

Came to post exactly this. A direct flight to the Middle East would be sweet.

Originally Posted by Cage

That said, ace.yyc definition of base (aircraft that fly exclusively through a single hub airport) is used by some airlines.

I was thinking of Jazz as well. The E75 for example never come out west (for tech reasons, but it counts) and there are some Jazz Q that stay permanently east.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

Now for the fun prognostications on these frames for NS23. Assuming just a single turn daily, that's 49 YYC-XXX frequencies with some slack likely for IRROPS.

Presumably to LON we get daily to LGW and 4x weekly to LHR, or reverse = 11.
Daily CDG = 7.
Daily AMS if they can get slots = 7.
DUB 3x weekly = 3
FCO 4x weekly = 4

That's 32/49 slots used.

DUB or FCO could get more frequencies.
BCN seems likely since WS already has slots but not sure it would be daily.
Scotland is possible (GLA/EDI) as WS has slots.

Where else?
ATH, LIS, MAD, PRG, LIN?

Asia would presumably be ICN or NRT, DEL once Russian airspace reopens. But I kind of think any Asia is unlikely in S23.

LIN as in Milan-Linate? That airport can't handle widebodies. You probably meant MXP. Either way, don't think they are reasonable destinations from YYC.

2 frames for LGW/LHR
1 for CDG
1 for AMS/BCN
1 for FCO
1 for a mix of Ireland/Scotland
1 for DXB

That's about it. Obviously if DXB/BCN and AMS are less than daily, then you might have room for 1 more destination, but not much else. As you said, there needs to be room for IRROPS.

They need sterile transit back in operation if they want this to be the global intercontinental megahub they're dreaming of. I've asked today and there are "no immediate plans" to return to sterile transit for next summer.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

They need sterile transit back in operation if they want this to be the global intercontinental megahub they're dreaming of. I've asked today and there are "no immediate plans" to return to sterile transit for next summer.

^it would be ideal but it’s not a must.

Most of the TWOV applies to East Asian countries anyway, and WS doesn’t serve that part of the world. Most European citizens don’t need a visa to come here, so clearing Canadian customs while transiting isn’t a big deal for them.

Also, even if sterile transit returned, I wouldn’t call YYC a “global megahub”. WS would need to base significantly more than just 7 Dreamliners there for that to happen.

I'm speaking more to iteneraries like PHX-YYC-FCO... not anything to do with the middle east or visas...

WS has timed LAX, PHX et al flights specifically for European connections.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

LIN as in Milan-Linate? That airport can't handle widebodies. You probably meant MXP. Either way, don't think they are reasonable destinations from YYC.

2 frames for LGW/LHR
1 for CDG
1 for AMS/BCN
1 for FCO
1 for a mix of Ireland/Scotland
1 for DXB

That's about it. Obviously if DXB/BCN and AMS are less than daily, then you might have room for 1 more destination, but not much else. As you said, there needs to be room for IRROPS.

DXB may need more than 1 frame if they're running more than 3x weekly, because the round-trip block time would be at least 32-34 hours. Unless they're creating a new international departure bank...

On the side node, looks like WestJet just start to put WS code on YVR-ICN by KE starting next month. I don't remember see that before? If that's new, likely ICN is one of the destination they're looking into.

WS is also currently codesharing YVR-SYD with QF. Maybe they are also looking into SYD? Not sure how well YYC-SYD would work though...

[Calfan12]

UNITED TENTATIVELY SCHEDULES 737 MAX 9 DENVER – CALGARY SERVICE IN 1Q23

United in the first quarter of 2023 tentatively schedules Boeing 737 MAX 9 aircraft on Denver – Calgary route, scheduled on 1 of 2 daily flights. The 737 MAX 9 is scheduled to operate from 04JAN23 until 23MAR23, Denver departure.

UA2459 DEN1120 – 1356YYC 738 D
UA720 DEN1905 – 2138YYC 7M9 D

UA2019 YYC0620 – 0850DEN 7M9 D
UA2447 YYC1506 – 1732DEN 738 D

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221006-ua1q23yyc

Pretty much meaningless, 7M9 was sked for SFO but it ended up being 320/319 mix like always.