DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

Think of the nice helicopter shots we would get of all of the brown grass, Green Valley Ranch, and Reunion neighborhoods though!

I hate the idea of it moving out by the airport but that is probably a real possibility. I don't know how they would put a dome on the existing Mile High and be able to have football there at the same time, dome construction would definitely take more than one season unless they could build it to the side and move it over the stadium (I'm picturing the sarcophagus over Chernobyl type of scenario)

Retrofitting the current stadium with a dome is probably not a viable option. I don’t think anyone ever suggested that (unless I missed something). Most likely, they would build a new stadium right next to the current one, on what is currently parking - just like they did when the old Mile High was replaced by Investco.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

Why does everyone suspect the stadium will get moved from its current location? What is this based off of?

The old Mile High was much, much smaller. You could not build a modern NFL stadium next to the current stadium on the existing parking lots. Just open up an aerial on google and look at it. And/or look at the footprint of SoFi. It's not possible. (Well, not possible unless you take a bunch of property... ha.)

[twalm]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

The old Mile High was much, much smaller. You could not build a modern NFL stadium next to the current stadium on the existing parking lots. Just open up an aerial on google and look at it. And/or look at the footprint of SoFi. It's not possible. (Well, not possible unless you take a bunch of property... ha.)

This is my assumption as well. Stadiums are massive structures and modern ones are only getting bigger. You can't replace the current one because you can't build an entire stadium during the off-season and the Broncos don't have the luxury of sharing with a nearby team.

In addition, building a stadium outside of the namesake city is a growing trend elsewhere.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by twalm

This is my assumption as well. Stadiums are massive structures and modern ones are only getting bigger. You can't replace the current one because you can't build an entire stadium during the off-season and the Broncos don't have the luxury of sharing with a nearby team.

In addition, building a stadium outside of the namesake city is a growing trend elsewhere.

The can always play at that college in Boulder for a couple of seasons while building a new facility. Show that town what real football is.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

The old Mile High was much, much smaller. You could not build a modern NFL stadium next to the current stadium on the existing parking lots. Just open up an aerial on google and look at it. And/or look at the footprint of SoFi. It's not possible. (Well, not possible unless you take a bunch of property... ha.)

Weird. The couple bits I saw about it on the crappy local tv news made it sound like it would most likely get built at the current site. I could swear they even showed a cheesy graphic of a domed stadium with the Denver skyline in the background.

Well I guess we’re screwed! They’re gonna tax us for billions, then move them out to the prairie and change the name to the Bennet Broncos!

[DenverInfill]

The Pepsi plant and adjacent Denver Coliseum with its acres of surface parking would be large enough.


https://goo.gl/maps/9VztYuhNeFikEte86


Not the greatest for transit access - about 15 minute walk from either 38th & Blake Station on the A Line or National Western Station on the N Line, but doable. Could be co-developed with the National Western Triangle site perhaps.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

The Pepsi plant and adjacent Denver Coliseum with its acres of surface parking would be large enough.


https://goo.gl/maps/9VztYuhNeFikEte86


Not the greatest for transit access - about 15 minute walk from either 38th & Blake Station on the A Line or National Western Station on the N Line, but doable. Could be co-developed with the National Western Triangle site perhaps.

Pepsi plant is getting sold for way, way, way more than the Broncos are going to want to pay.

Also, the Coliseum parking lots have about $100 million in Superfund cleanup before they're buildable. So, while totally doable (and we should do it!), it probably will not be on the new Broncos owner's timeframe.

[TakeFive]

I want to circle back around to something that bunt said

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Basketball and hockey arenas are much, much, much easier to finance than a football stadium. Those arenas can conceivably be used 300 days per year. A football stadium is lucky to be used on 15. It's apples and oranges.

Actually no more than 9 regular season games. Playoff games though would rock.

When you consider all the crazy development that's happened, it could easily be argued that a football stadium is no longer the "highest and best use" on its existing site. Especially when you consider the prospective size.

Originally Posted by bunt_q

You could not build a modern NFL stadium next to the current stadium on the existing parking lots. Just open up an aerial on google and look at it. And/or look at the footprint of SoFi. It's not possible. (Well, not possible unless you take a bunch of property... ha.)

-----------------------

Originally Posted by wong21fr

The can always play at that college in Boulder for a couple of seasons while building a new facility. Show that town what real football is.

That also crossed my mind; the Rams played in the Rose Bowl while SoFi was being built.

[jimijam35]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

The Pepsi plant and adjacent Denver Coliseum with its acres of surface parking would be large enough.


https://goo.gl/maps/9VztYuhNeFikEte86


Not the greatest for transit access - about 15 minute walk from either 38th & Blake Station on the A Line or National Western Station on the N Line, but doable. Could be co-developed with the National Western Triangle site perhaps.

this would be the best site- plus indoor stadium can use doing the stock show-

[TakeFive]

We have something in common, you and I

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

Downtown phx is horrible. Of course theyd have to go elsewhere, it’s not a destination. There’s really no comparison here with denver.

Actually, I wasn't trying to compare downtown's; rather it was an example of how much change can happen over 15 years.

In fact if you think back to Denver 15 years ago what a difference 15 years has made.

I can recall 15 year ago very clearly. In many respects downtown was very nice. You may have had the 'stoner' crowd and some homeless but it pales in comparison to today's homeless, addicted, crime problem downtown. BTW, downtown Phx is more like Denver 15 years ago in that respect.

We're both (well) past our 20's

The artsy, LoDo-esque part of downtown Phx is to the North (just like Denver). It's called Roosevelt Row and it's where First Friday Art Walk originated.

I focus my rideshare energy on the weekend's (Fri, Sat, Sun) and I'm now getting trips from the suburbs into downtown Phx/Roosevelt Row. It turns out that today's twenty-something's or Gen Z doesn't care what you and I (or bunt or wong) think; they're going to make their own decisions where they want to party - or where to live.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I want to circle back around to something that bunt said

Actually no more than 9 regular season games. Playoff games though would rock.

It's usually good for a concert or two. An international soccer game or two. Stuff like that. That's how I get to 15. (Things that probably would not go to Glendale or wherever because, well... eww.)

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

It turns out that today's twenty-something's or Gen Z doesn't care what you and I (or bunt or wong) think; they're going to make their own decisions where they want to party - or where to live.

Funny, i think they would strongly disagree that they are making their own decisions. They are doing whatever they are stuck with because your generation fucked them so badly that they long ago learned not to "want" too much. Because whatever their version of the American Dream is, it's almost certainly unattainable. You all would have called that "settling." But the notion that they are "choosing" that is just what you boomers tell yourselves so you can sleep at night (or perhaps so you can perpetuate some degree of sympathy long enough that we don't all unplug the entire generation from life support at the first opportunity). Just a hypothesis.

[TakeFive]

Interesting Story

Originally Posted by bunt_q

It's usually good for a concert or two. An international soccer game or two. Stuff like that. That's how I get to 15. (Things that probably would not go to Glendale or wherever because, well... eww.)

I wouldn't disagree with you about 'that side of town.'

The Coyotes have had at least 3 different ownership groups (usually Canadian). The problem has been they want to be on the 'east' side. Suns owner had no interest in combining NHL with the NBA in one new arena.

The current owners (out of Las Vegas) have proposed a $1.7 billion new arena and entertainment district on land owned by the City of Tempe. Great location but dealing with the City could be a problem - or not. They're at least 3 years away from a new arena.

Coyotes lease with the City of Glendale expired after this season but they were willing to lease short-term. But City of Glendale had already done a deep dive into what they would do without the Coyotes. Realizing that 'hockey season' is also 'high season' in Phoenix they told the Coyotes Buh Bye; we want those dates to do other things. They already have plan to upgrade the facility for various types of events. There is a huge population base within a 20 minute drive.

That left the Coyotes needing a place to play. Fortunately, ASU was just completing a new hockey arena. The bad news is that with a capacity just over 5,000 it doesn't meet NHL standards. But Gary Bettman didn't want to lose the eyeball count from Phx so they got a waiver.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Interesting Story


I wouldn't disagree with you about 'that side of town.'

The Coyotes have had at least 3 different ownership groups (usually Canadian). The problem has been they want to be on the 'east' side. Suns owner had no interest in combining NHL with the NBA in one new arena.

The current owners (out of Las Vegas) have proposed a $1.7 billion new arena and entertainment district on land owned by the City of Tempe. Great location but dealing with the City could be a problem - or not. They're at least 3 years away from a new arena.

Coyotes lease with the City of Glendale expired after this season but they were willing to lease short-term. But City of Glendale had already done a deep dive into what they would do without the Coyotes. Realizing that 'hockey season' is also 'high season' in Phoenix they told the Coyotes Buh Bye; we want those dates to do other things. They already have plan to upgrade the facility for various types of events. There is a huge population base within a 20 minute drive.

That left the Coyotes needing a place to play. Fortunately, ASU was just completing a new hockey arena. The bad news is that with a capacity just over 5,000 it doesn't meet NHL standards. But Gary Bettman didn't want to lose the eyeball count from Phx so they got a waiver.

More important question, with #3 in the draft, do you take Logan Cooley? Or do you stick with a D man and take Simon Nemec?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Funny, i think they would strongly disagree that they are making their own decisions. They are doing whatever they are stuck with because your generation fucked them so badly that they long ago learned not to "want" too much. Because whatever their version of the American Dream is, it's almost certainly unattainable. You all would have called that "settling." But the notion that they are "choosing" that is just what you boomers tell yourselves so you can sleep at night (or perhaps so you can perpetuate some degree of sympathy long enough that we don't all unplug the entire generation from life support at the first opportunity). Just a hypothesis.

It's interesting; Phoenix now has a plurality of Hispanics by about one percent over 'whites'. For the metro area I'd guess maybe 35% or 1,750,000 Hispanics and most believe they are living the American Dream and have even accumulated generational wealth.

Afaik the Gen Z crowd feels like there's as much opportunity as ever.

I would suggest that 'our' problems come from the MBA - algorithm crowd; they're now the one's writing all the rules.

Originally Posted by bunt_q

More important question, with #3 in the draft, do you take Logan Cooley? Or do you stick with a D man and take Simon Nemec?

As an avid fan of the Avalanche I haven't even looked at the NHL draft (yet). In fact I'll prolly watch the Blues v Wild game tonight to check out who the Avs will play next, maybe even leave a couple of posts on Mile High Hockey.

[bulldurhamer]

New football stadium goes on ball arena location with plenty of room to spare. Nuggets/avalanches move back across where mile high currently stands. They’re due for an upgrade anyway

Imagine the development opportunities possible that could surround the stadium. River mile on steroids

A new area for nuggets at the denver coliseum area would be legit too. Anchor denvers new front door.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

[IMG]I would suggest that 'our' problems come from the MBA - algorithm crowd; they're now the one's writing all the rules.

Hey-recognize your betters. They’re the ones determining your life.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

You're assuming it stays where it is. Would you vote for it out by the airport, by Gaylord? Possibly not even in Denver?

The entertainment district thing has a much more mixed track record with football stadiums. And the parking is very, very important to them.

I would only vote for it in an urban setting that was accretive in purpose and a location that didn't "take" from something else - so basically a stadium in the existing spot or if they could fit it in the old mile high spot. I don't see a market for the entertainment thing in Denver, at least not like executed in LA/Vegas. Mixed-use though with high density residential, absolutely.

Mainly, a stadium repurposing seems a better option given the stadium bones are great and the exterior skin would be pretty easy to fix and would be much more cost effectively than a brand new stadium. Mile high can sorely use some venue space so that it can handle large group events, productions, conferences, etc (yes there is a large market for that stuff).

Most importantly, any smart person pursuing a new or substantially modified stadium would try to include the Federal interchange lands in such an endeavor and this could be the impetus for the City to get off it's arse and do something about reprograming that space. Should the whole area get taken through eminent domain, there's about 100 usable acres from the corner of Colfax/Federal, up to 20th then snaking south around the new residential by turntable and south to meow wolf.

Lastly, there is about 1,000 feet of S Platte River frontage that could leveraged and turned into a park amenity or something much more exciting than the abandoned comcast backyard it is today.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

Retrofitting the current stadium with a dome is probably not a viable option. I don’t think anyone ever suggested that (unless I missed something). Most likely, they would build a new stadium right next to the current one, on what is currently parking - just like they did when the old Mile High was replaced by Investco.

Roof retrofit definitely isn't an option. Not sure how long any of you have been here, but I'd compare Bronco fans to Packer fans. They have been here a long time and feel like they own the team. There is no chance in hell a stadium by the airport would get approved by voters. That's not to say an owner wouldn't dare do that on their own dime, but they would likely alienate themselves from the fan base. I do think billionaires are much more cognizant of their public persona now than in the past and I can't imagine they'd risk alienating themselves. Kroenke is the obvious exception to this - he could give less than two shits - funny enough he is related to the Waltons through marriage, but with his own personal fortune exceeding that of his walmart heiress wife. An owner will make much more if they're able to develop around the existing stadium than if they go to Gaylorland. The land values and long term benefits of vertical development would dwarf anything a superbowl every 20 years could generate and these Bs speak in dollars and sense, ultimately.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Demo Empower Field, play at Coors Field for two years during construction, and then return to Walton World at the same old site.