DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[bunt_q]

I would dare the Metropolitan Football Stadium District to take a bond financing to the voters... even assuming they could get authorization to do so through the legislature, which I think is itself questionable.

[Ndj]

Replacing the stadium would be nothing more than a vanity project by the new owner. Complete waste of money and resources.

Having said that, the redevelopment potential of that site combined with the river mile sure would be juicy.

[TakeFive]

Flashback to RTD bus on Colfax Avenue in 1978


Photo courtesy Western History Department, Denver Public Library/Rocky Mountain News Collection

GOOD READ:

To improve air quality, Colorado Democrats are poised to fund a free public transit program. RTD’s past suggests it won’t help much

"A lot of people are talking about air pollution these days. It's nice to be able to announce that the Regional Transportation District and those of us in the State Capitol are actually able to do something about it."

That quote was from then-Gov. Dick Lamm. Anybody remember that guy?

[Sam Hill]

As long as the new ownership paid for it, they could build whatever kind of fancy new stadium they want and I wouldn’t mind. It would be interesting to see a super bowl in Denver. And I’m guessing the most likely location would be next to the current stadium on current parking - just like they did when the old Mile High was replaced by “Investco.”

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

As long as the new ownership paid for it, they could build whatever kind of fancy new stadium they want and I wouldn’t mind. It would be interesting to see a super bowl in Denver. And I’m guessing the most likely location would be next to the current stadium on current parking - just like they did when the old Mile High was replaced by “Investco.”

It's no longer unusual for owners to pay for their own arena/stadium.

• Kroenke paid $5 billion to build SoFi Stadium
• Clippers owner Steve Balmer is building "Intuit Dome" for ~$2 billion
• Seattle Kraken owners paid $1.15 billion to 'rebuild' the existing arena
• Alex Meruelo and Andrew Barroway have proposed to pay for building a new Coyotes hockey arena & entertainment district for $1.7 billion in Tempe.

Speaking of Kroenke and going way back to the late 1990's Kroenke also paid to build Ball Arena.

Some cities like Milwaukee, Las Vegas and Buffalo have or will help to build new facilities.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

My preferred location for a new stadium would be on the Ball Arena parking lots right outside the Empower Field RTD station. Maybe Kroenke could cut Walton a family discount. Then we can have a transit oriented entertainment district to end all entertainment districts. However, it'll probably end up near Dove Valley or somewhere else that doesn't satisfy my urbanist fantasies.

[Curtis Park]

Originally Posted by Ich

Just heard on the news that if Rob Walton ends up buying the Broncos, he is interested in building a new stadium. Any thoughts on where it would go or how that would work? Not a ton of available land around downtown.

I think the Park Hill Golf Course would be perfect. A new, wider I-70 is just begging for more traffic. And I would be thrilled to see how crazy the neighbors get.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

It's no longer unusual for owners to pay for their own arena/stadium.

• Kroenke paid $5 billion to build SoFi Stadium
• Clippers owner Steve Balmer is building "Intuit Dome" for ~$2 billion
• Seattle Kraken owners paid $1.15 billion to 'rebuild' the existing arena
• Alex Meruelo and Andrew Barroway have proposed to pay for building a new Coyotes hockey arena & entertainment district for $1.7 billion in Tempe.

Speaking of Kroenke and going way back to the late 1990's Kroenke also paid to build Ball Arena.

Some cities like Milwaukee, Las Vegas and Buffalo have or will help to build new facilities.

Basketball and hockey arenas are much, much, much easier to finance than a football stadium. Those arenas can conceivably be used 300 days per year. A football stadium is lucky to be used on 15. It's apples and oranges.

And LA doesn't count. Nothing that works in LA (SoFi) is transferable to Denver. There's a chance they can actually use that stadium more. And the ancillary revenues there are so much more lucrative. You'd never get something similar done in Denver without public money.

[Sam Hill]

Well then I’ll be voting no.

[TakeFive]

Excellent Points; However...

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Basketball and hockey arenas are much, much, much easier to finance than a football stadium. Those arenas can conceivably be used 300 days per year. A football stadium is lucky to be used on 15. It's apples and oranges.

And LA doesn't count. Nothing that works in LA (SoFi) is transferable to Denver. There's a chance they can actually use that stadium more. And the ancillary revenues there are so much more lucrative. You'd never get something similar done in Denver without public money.

So forget Los Angeles; we'll settle for piddly Phoenix.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/super-...onomic-growth-and-visitors-from-all-over

The committee unveiled its new logo and says Arizona Cardinals star Larry Fitzgerald is on the board this time. The last time Arizona hosted the game, the committee says it was the most profitable ever, bringing in $700 million in economic impact.

State Farm Stadium which last held the Super Bowl in 2015 will again be the host in 2023. Now this money (obviously) doesn't flow just to the Owner/stadium but it does add significant value to the franchise. State Farm Stadium also holds a college bowl game like the Fiesta Bowl and the stadium does hold many events outside of football season.

Here's the more important part

Rob Walton's net worth is estimated at $67.7 billion

Carrie Walton Penner’s (Rob's only child) net worth is $5 billion

Note: Greg Penner is Carrie's husband and Rob's son-in-law and on the board of directors at Walmart. BTW, Greg and Carrie have four children so the franchise could be a family affair for a long time.

[jimijam35]

broncos dont need a new stadium pay with tax payers money- if they want one- fix current stadium- (i dont know if they can put a roof on it) - 1. coliseum site would be good plus they could use it for the stock show- 2. coors parking lot up north

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

My preferred location for a new stadium would be on the Ball Arena parking lots right outside the Empower Field RTD station. Maybe Kroenke could cut Walton a family discount. Then we can have a transit oriented entertainment district to end all entertainment districts. However, it'll probably end up near Dove Valley or somewhere else that doesn't satisfy my urbanist fantasies.

I don't ever foresee another enclosed stadium being suburban oriented if there is an urban alternative. The entertainment and mixed-use adjacent districts that stadium owners can profit off of are too great now to justify heading to the burbs. For those places that have the space in an urban location, that's where enclosed stadiums will be built because owners would be crazy to lose out on all that extra profit potential.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I would dare the Metropolitan Football Stadium District to take a bond financing to the voters... even assuming they could get authorization to do so through the legislature, which I think is itself questionable.

I'd vote for it and suspect most of my broncos loving season ticket holding friends would too. Mile High is pretty crappy and we like shiny new things. If the new owner gets a quick superbowl, I can almost guarantee they will ask for a new stadium and if it went to a referendum, I'm inclined to think folks will approve it. We're very generous here in Colorado with specific funding requests, much less so with general budget increases or requests without a pretty short horizon. Maybe that will change if the economy tanks, but I think it would pass and I'm all for it if it means adjacent development is realized and it's not just a bunch of effing parking lots.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by laniroj

I'd vote for it and suspect most of my broncos loving season ticket holding friends would too. Mile High is pretty crappy and we like shiny new things. If the new owner gets a quick superbowl, I can almost guarantee they will ask for a new stadium and if it went to a referendum, I'm inclined to think folks will approve it. We're very generous here in Colorado with specific funding requests, much less so with general budget increases or requests without a pretty short horizon. Maybe that will change if the economy tanks, but I think it would pass and I'm all for it if it means adjacent development is realized and it's not just a bunch of effing parking lots.

You're assuming it stays where it is. Would you vote for it out by the airport, by Gaylord? Possibly not even in Denver?

The entertainment district thing has a much more mixed track record with football stadiums. And the parking is very, very important to them.

[TakeFive]

I would mostly agree with this

Originally Posted by bunt_q

You're assuming it stays where it is. Would you vote for it out by the airport, by Gaylord? Possibly not even in Denver?

The entertainment district thing has a much more mixed track record with football stadiums. And the parking is very, very important to them.

My preference would be that any new stadium be built on the current site. Call it nostalgia. But you might be surprised how successful it could be out by Gaylord.

When they built the Loop 101 (Agua Fria Freeway) on the west side of Phoenix, it went through mostly open desert. One of the intersections was at Glendale Ave (also the name of the city). Pretty soon the Cardinals decided to build their 'home' out there; it opened in 2006 so 15 years ago. Later they built the arena where the NHL Coyotes play. Over the ensuing years the area exploded with retail and entertainment; it's called the Westgate Entertainment District. It's very suburban and hugely successful. Dropped off a rider at the arena for some cowboy event in March. I wasn't familiar with the area and my jaw dropped with how crazy busy with cars and people it was.

Recently I met a sharp Hispanic State Farm agent who helped me change some coverage (BTW, being bilingual makes one more valuable to their company down here) She showed me on her phone where a California developer is building the Crystal Lagoons Island Resort to the south of State Farm Stadium. It's a water park and Mattel branded amusement venue so very family oriented. They hope to be open in time for next year's Super Bowl. We got to chatting as she lives in the area and she mentioned how many neighborhoods have tripled in value over the last few years. Lot of cash buyers wanting homes for Airbnb rentals.

Fifteen or twenty years from now you might be shocked at how rockin' the area around Gaylord will be.

[bulldurhamer]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I would mostly agree with this


My preference would be that any new stadium be built on the current site. Call it nostalgia. But you might be surprised how successful it could be out by Gaylord.

When they built the Loop 101 (Agua Fria Freeway) on the west side of Phoenix, it went through mostly open desert. One of the intersections was at Glendale Ave (also the name of the city). Pretty soon the Cardinals decided to build their 'home' out there; it opened in 2006 so 15 years ago. Later they built the arena where the NHL Coyotes play. Over the ensuing years the area exploded with retail and entertainment; it's called the Westgate Entertainment District. It's very suburban and hugely successful. Dropped off a rider at the arena for some cowboy event in March. I wasn't familiar with the area and my jaw dropped with how crazy busy with cars and people it was.

Recently I met a sharp Hispanic State Farm agent who helped me change some coverage (BTW, being bilingual makes one more valuable to their company down here) She showed me on her phone where a California developer is building the Crystal Lagoons Island Resort to the south of State Farm Stadium. It's a water park and Mattel branded amusement venue so very family oriented. They hope to be open in time for next year's Super Bowl. We got to chatting as she lives in the area and she mentioned how many neighborhoods have tripled in value over the last few years. Lot of cash buyers wanting homes for Airbnb rentals.

Fifteen or twenty years from now you might be shocked at how rockin' the area around Gaylord will be.

Downtown phx is horrible. Of course theyd have to go elsewhere, it’s not a destination. There’s really no comparison here with denver.

[twalm]

Originally Posted by laniroj

I'd vote for it and suspect most of my broncos loving season ticket holding friends would too. Mile High is pretty crappy and we like shiny new things. If the new owner gets a quick superbowl, I can almost guarantee they will ask for a new stadium and if it went to a referendum, I'm inclined to think folks will approve it. We're very generous here in Colorado with specific funding requests, much less so with general budget increases or requests without a pretty short horizon. Maybe that will change if the economy tanks, but I think it would pass and I'm all for it if it means adjacent development is realized and it's not just a bunch of effing parking lots.

I was guessing the opposite. If a new owner came in and wanted to build a stadium I would guess it would no longer be downtown and it would have a roof to try and get a Superbowl bid. I am firmly against both of those things since having an urban stadium is a major boon and we live in a beautiful state and blocking that out to try and get a superbowl once every 20 years would suck.

In addition, public sentiment for billionaires is on the wane. A billion dollars is already an immoral amount of money and if someone with as much money as the Waltons comes to town asking for a handout I say screw em'.

[Sam Hill]

Why does everyone suspect the stadium will get moved from its current location? What is this based off of?

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

You're assuming it stays where it is. Would you vote for it out by the airport, by Gaylord? Possibly not even in Denver?

The entertainment district thing has a much more mixed track record with football stadiums. And the parking is very, very important to them.

Think of the nice helicopter shots we would get of all of the brown grass, Green Valley Ranch, and Reunion neighborhoods though!

I hate the idea of it moving out by the airport but that is probably a real possibility. I don't know how they would put a dome on the existing Mile High and be able to have football there at the same time, dome construction would definitely take more than one season unless they could build it to the side and move it over the stadium (I'm picturing the sarcophagus over Chernobyl type of scenario)

[Sam Hill]

Could Jeff Bezos get away with blackmailing the voters of Seattle into giving him billions of dollars by threatening to move Amazon’s headquarters elsewhere?

What about a billionaire owner of a sports team?

The irrational nature of sports team fandom is fascinating.