DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[TakeFive]

Excellent Points; However...

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Basketball and hockey arenas are much, much, much easier to finance than a football stadium. Those arenas can conceivably be used 300 days per year. A football stadium is lucky to be used on 15. It's apples and oranges.

And LA doesn't count. Nothing that works in LA (SoFi) is transferable to Denver. There's a chance they can actually use that stadium more. And the ancillary revenues there are so much more lucrative. You'd never get something similar done in Denver without public money.

So forget Los Angeles; we'll settle for piddly Phoenix.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/super-...onomic-growth-and-visitors-from-all-over

The committee unveiled its new logo and says Arizona Cardinals star Larry Fitzgerald is on the board this time. The last time Arizona hosted the game, the committee says it was the most profitable ever, bringing in $700 million in economic impact.

State Farm Stadium which last held the Super Bowl in 2015 will again be the host in 2023. Now this money (obviously) doesn't flow just to the Owner/stadium but it does add significant value to the franchise. State Farm Stadium also holds a college bowl game like the Fiesta Bowl and the stadium does hold many events outside of football season.

Here's the more important part

Rob Walton's net worth is estimated at $67.7 billion

Carrie Walton Penner’s (Rob's only child) net worth is $5 billion

Note: Greg Penner is Carrie's husband and Rob's son-in-law and on the board of directors at Walmart. BTW, Greg and Carrie have four children so the franchise could be a family affair for a long time.

[jimijam35]

broncos dont need a new stadium pay with tax payers money- if they want one- fix current stadium- (i dont know if they can put a roof on it) - 1. coliseum site would be good plus they could use it for the stock show- 2. coors parking lot up north

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

My preferred location for a new stadium would be on the Ball Arena parking lots right outside the Empower Field RTD station. Maybe Kroenke could cut Walton a family discount. Then we can have a transit oriented entertainment district to end all entertainment districts. However, it'll probably end up near Dove Valley or somewhere else that doesn't satisfy my urbanist fantasies.

I don't ever foresee another enclosed stadium being suburban oriented if there is an urban alternative. The entertainment and mixed-use adjacent districts that stadium owners can profit off of are too great now to justify heading to the burbs. For those places that have the space in an urban location, that's where enclosed stadiums will be built because owners would be crazy to lose out on all that extra profit potential.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I would dare the Metropolitan Football Stadium District to take a bond financing to the voters... even assuming they could get authorization to do so through the legislature, which I think is itself questionable.

I'd vote for it and suspect most of my broncos loving season ticket holding friends would too. Mile High is pretty crappy and we like shiny new things. If the new owner gets a quick superbowl, I can almost guarantee they will ask for a new stadium and if it went to a referendum, I'm inclined to think folks will approve it. We're very generous here in Colorado with specific funding requests, much less so with general budget increases or requests without a pretty short horizon. Maybe that will change if the economy tanks, but I think it would pass and I'm all for it if it means adjacent development is realized and it's not just a bunch of effing parking lots.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by laniroj

I'd vote for it and suspect most of my broncos loving season ticket holding friends would too. Mile High is pretty crappy and we like shiny new things. If the new owner gets a quick superbowl, I can almost guarantee they will ask for a new stadium and if it went to a referendum, I'm inclined to think folks will approve it. We're very generous here in Colorado with specific funding requests, much less so with general budget increases or requests without a pretty short horizon. Maybe that will change if the economy tanks, but I think it would pass and I'm all for it if it means adjacent development is realized and it's not just a bunch of effing parking lots.

You're assuming it stays where it is. Would you vote for it out by the airport, by Gaylord? Possibly not even in Denver?

The entertainment district thing has a much more mixed track record with football stadiums. And the parking is very, very important to them.

[TakeFive]

I would mostly agree with this

Originally Posted by bunt_q

You're assuming it stays where it is. Would you vote for it out by the airport, by Gaylord? Possibly not even in Denver?

The entertainment district thing has a much more mixed track record with football stadiums. And the parking is very, very important to them.

My preference would be that any new stadium be built on the current site. Call it nostalgia. But you might be surprised how successful it could be out by Gaylord.

When they built the Loop 101 (Agua Fria Freeway) on the west side of Phoenix, it went through mostly open desert. One of the intersections was at Glendale Ave (also the name of the city). Pretty soon the Cardinals decided to build their 'home' out there; it opened in 2006 so 15 years ago. Later they built the arena where the NHL Coyotes play. Over the ensuing years the area exploded with retail and entertainment; it's called the Westgate Entertainment District. It's very suburban and hugely successful. Dropped off a rider at the arena for some cowboy event in March. I wasn't familiar with the area and my jaw dropped with how crazy busy with cars and people it was.

Recently I met a sharp Hispanic State Farm agent who helped me change some coverage (BTW, being bilingual makes one more valuable to their company down here) She showed me on her phone where a California developer is building the Crystal Lagoons Island Resort to the south of State Farm Stadium. It's a water park and Mattel branded amusement venue so very family oriented. They hope to be open in time for next year's Super Bowl. We got to chatting as she lives in the area and she mentioned how many neighborhoods have tripled in value over the last few years. Lot of cash buyers wanting homes for Airbnb rentals.

Fifteen or twenty years from now you might be shocked at how rockin' the area around Gaylord will be.

[bulldurhamer]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I would mostly agree with this


My preference would be that any new stadium be built on the current site. Call it nostalgia. But you might be surprised how successful it could be out by Gaylord.

When they built the Loop 101 (Agua Fria Freeway) on the west side of Phoenix, it went through mostly open desert. One of the intersections was at Glendale Ave (also the name of the city). Pretty soon the Cardinals decided to build their 'home' out there; it opened in 2006 so 15 years ago. Later they built the arena where the NHL Coyotes play. Over the ensuing years the area exploded with retail and entertainment; it's called the Westgate Entertainment District. It's very suburban and hugely successful. Dropped off a rider at the arena for some cowboy event in March. I wasn't familiar with the area and my jaw dropped with how crazy busy with cars and people it was.

Recently I met a sharp Hispanic State Farm agent who helped me change some coverage (BTW, being bilingual makes one more valuable to their company down here) She showed me on her phone where a California developer is building the Crystal Lagoons Island Resort to the south of State Farm Stadium. It's a water park and Mattel branded amusement venue so very family oriented. They hope to be open in time for next year's Super Bowl. We got to chatting as she lives in the area and she mentioned how many neighborhoods have tripled in value over the last few years. Lot of cash buyers wanting homes for Airbnb rentals.

Fifteen or twenty years from now you might be shocked at how rockin' the area around Gaylord will be.

Downtown phx is horrible. Of course theyd have to go elsewhere, it’s not a destination. There’s really no comparison here with denver.

[twalm]

Originally Posted by laniroj

I'd vote for it and suspect most of my broncos loving season ticket holding friends would too. Mile High is pretty crappy and we like shiny new things. If the new owner gets a quick superbowl, I can almost guarantee they will ask for a new stadium and if it went to a referendum, I'm inclined to think folks will approve it. We're very generous here in Colorado with specific funding requests, much less so with general budget increases or requests without a pretty short horizon. Maybe that will change if the economy tanks, but I think it would pass and I'm all for it if it means adjacent development is realized and it's not just a bunch of effing parking lots.

I was guessing the opposite. If a new owner came in and wanted to build a stadium I would guess it would no longer be downtown and it would have a roof to try and get a Superbowl bid. I am firmly against both of those things since having an urban stadium is a major boon and we live in a beautiful state and blocking that out to try and get a superbowl once every 20 years would suck.

In addition, public sentiment for billionaires is on the wane. A billion dollars is already an immoral amount of money and if someone with as much money as the Waltons comes to town asking for a handout I say screw em'.

[Sam Hill]

Why does everyone suspect the stadium will get moved from its current location? What is this based off of?

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

You're assuming it stays where it is. Would you vote for it out by the airport, by Gaylord? Possibly not even in Denver?

The entertainment district thing has a much more mixed track record with football stadiums. And the parking is very, very important to them.

Think of the nice helicopter shots we would get of all of the brown grass, Green Valley Ranch, and Reunion neighborhoods though!

I hate the idea of it moving out by the airport but that is probably a real possibility. I don't know how they would put a dome on the existing Mile High and be able to have football there at the same time, dome construction would definitely take more than one season unless they could build it to the side and move it over the stadium (I'm picturing the sarcophagus over Chernobyl type of scenario)

[Sam Hill]

Could Jeff Bezos get away with blackmailing the voters of Seattle into giving him billions of dollars by threatening to move Amazon’s headquarters elsewhere?

What about a billionaire owner of a sports team?

The irrational nature of sports team fandom is fascinating.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

Think of the nice helicopter shots we would get of all of the brown grass, Green Valley Ranch, and Reunion neighborhoods though!

I hate the idea of it moving out by the airport but that is probably a real possibility. I don't know how they would put a dome on the existing Mile High and be able to have football there at the same time, dome construction would definitely take more than one season unless they could build it to the side and move it over the stadium (I'm picturing the sarcophagus over Chernobyl type of scenario)

Retrofitting the current stadium with a dome is probably not a viable option. I don’t think anyone ever suggested that (unless I missed something). Most likely, they would build a new stadium right next to the current one, on what is currently parking - just like they did when the old Mile High was replaced by Investco.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

Why does everyone suspect the stadium will get moved from its current location? What is this based off of?

The old Mile High was much, much smaller. You could not build a modern NFL stadium next to the current stadium on the existing parking lots. Just open up an aerial on google and look at it. And/or look at the footprint of SoFi. It's not possible. (Well, not possible unless you take a bunch of property... ha.)

[twalm]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

The old Mile High was much, much smaller. You could not build a modern NFL stadium next to the current stadium on the existing parking lots. Just open up an aerial on google and look at it. And/or look at the footprint of SoFi. It's not possible. (Well, not possible unless you take a bunch of property... ha.)

This is my assumption as well. Stadiums are massive structures and modern ones are only getting bigger. You can't replace the current one because you can't build an entire stadium during the off-season and the Broncos don't have the luxury of sharing with a nearby team.

In addition, building a stadium outside of the namesake city is a growing trend elsewhere.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by twalm

This is my assumption as well. Stadiums are massive structures and modern ones are only getting bigger. You can't replace the current one because you can't build an entire stadium during the off-season and the Broncos don't have the luxury of sharing with a nearby team.

In addition, building a stadium outside of the namesake city is a growing trend elsewhere.

The can always play at that college in Boulder for a couple of seasons while building a new facility. Show that town what real football is.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

The old Mile High was much, much smaller. You could not build a modern NFL stadium next to the current stadium on the existing parking lots. Just open up an aerial on google and look at it. And/or look at the footprint of SoFi. It's not possible. (Well, not possible unless you take a bunch of property... ha.)

Weird. The couple bits I saw about it on the crappy local tv news made it sound like it would most likely get built at the current site. I could swear they even showed a cheesy graphic of a domed stadium with the Denver skyline in the background.

Well I guess we’re screwed! They’re gonna tax us for billions, then move them out to the prairie and change the name to the Bennet Broncos!

[DenverInfill]

The Pepsi plant and adjacent Denver Coliseum with its acres of surface parking would be large enough.


https://goo.gl/maps/9VztYuhNeFikEte86


Not the greatest for transit access - about 15 minute walk from either 38th & Blake Station on the A Line or National Western Station on the N Line, but doable. Could be co-developed with the National Western Triangle site perhaps.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

The Pepsi plant and adjacent Denver Coliseum with its acres of surface parking would be large enough.


https://goo.gl/maps/9VztYuhNeFikEte86


Not the greatest for transit access - about 15 minute walk from either 38th & Blake Station on the A Line or National Western Station on the N Line, but doable. Could be co-developed with the National Western Triangle site perhaps.

Pepsi plant is getting sold for way, way, way more than the Broncos are going to want to pay.

Also, the Coliseum parking lots have about $100 million in Superfund cleanup before they're buildable. So, while totally doable (and we should do it!), it probably will not be on the new Broncos owner's timeframe.

[TakeFive]

I want to circle back around to something that bunt said

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Basketball and hockey arenas are much, much, much easier to finance than a football stadium. Those arenas can conceivably be used 300 days per year. A football stadium is lucky to be used on 15. It's apples and oranges.

Actually no more than 9 regular season games. Playoff games though would rock.

When you consider all the crazy development that's happened, it could easily be argued that a football stadium is no longer the "highest and best use" on its existing site. Especially when you consider the prospective size.

Originally Posted by bunt_q

You could not build a modern NFL stadium next to the current stadium on the existing parking lots. Just open up an aerial on google and look at it. And/or look at the footprint of SoFi. It's not possible. (Well, not possible unless you take a bunch of property... ha.)

-----------------------

Originally Posted by wong21fr

The can always play at that college in Boulder for a couple of seasons while building a new facility. Show that town what real football is.

That also crossed my mind; the Rams played in the Rose Bowl while SoFi was being built.

[jimijam35]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

The Pepsi plant and adjacent Denver Coliseum with its acres of surface parking would be large enough.


https://goo.gl/maps/9VztYuhNeFikEte86


Not the greatest for transit access - about 15 minute walk from either 38th & Blake Station on the A Line or National Western Station on the N Line, but doable. Could be co-developed with the National Western Triangle site perhaps.

this would be the best site- plus indoor stadium can use doing the stock show-