DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[TakeFive]

We have something in common, you and I

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

Downtown phx is horrible. Of course theyd have to go elsewhere, it’s not a destination. There’s really no comparison here with denver.

Actually, I wasn't trying to compare downtown's; rather it was an example of how much change can happen over 15 years.

In fact if you think back to Denver 15 years ago what a difference 15 years has made.

I can recall 15 year ago very clearly. In many respects downtown was very nice. You may have had the 'stoner' crowd and some homeless but it pales in comparison to today's homeless, addicted, crime problem downtown. BTW, downtown Phx is more like Denver 15 years ago in that respect.

We're both (well) past our 20's

The artsy, LoDo-esque part of downtown Phx is to the North (just like Denver). It's called Roosevelt Row and it's where First Friday Art Walk originated.

I focus my rideshare energy on the weekend's (Fri, Sat, Sun) and I'm now getting trips from the suburbs into downtown Phx/Roosevelt Row. It turns out that today's twenty-something's or Gen Z doesn't care what you and I (or bunt or wong) think; they're going to make their own decisions where they want to party - or where to live.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I want to circle back around to something that bunt said

Actually no more than 9 regular season games. Playoff games though would rock.

It's usually good for a concert or two. An international soccer game or two. Stuff like that. That's how I get to 15. (Things that probably would not go to Glendale or wherever because, well... eww.)

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

It turns out that today's twenty-something's or Gen Z doesn't care what you and I (or bunt or wong) think; they're going to make their own decisions where they want to party - or where to live.

Funny, i think they would strongly disagree that they are making their own decisions. They are doing whatever they are stuck with because your generation fucked them so badly that they long ago learned not to "want" too much. Because whatever their version of the American Dream is, it's almost certainly unattainable. You all would have called that "settling." But the notion that they are "choosing" that is just what you boomers tell yourselves so you can sleep at night (or perhaps so you can perpetuate some degree of sympathy long enough that we don't all unplug the entire generation from life support at the first opportunity). Just a hypothesis.

[TakeFive]

Interesting Story

Originally Posted by bunt_q

It's usually good for a concert or two. An international soccer game or two. Stuff like that. That's how I get to 15. (Things that probably would not go to Glendale or wherever because, well... eww.)

I wouldn't disagree with you about 'that side of town.'

The Coyotes have had at least 3 different ownership groups (usually Canadian). The problem has been they want to be on the 'east' side. Suns owner had no interest in combining NHL with the NBA in one new arena.

The current owners (out of Las Vegas) have proposed a $1.7 billion new arena and entertainment district on land owned by the City of Tempe. Great location but dealing with the City could be a problem - or not. They're at least 3 years away from a new arena.

Coyotes lease with the City of Glendale expired after this season but they were willing to lease short-term. But City of Glendale had already done a deep dive into what they would do without the Coyotes. Realizing that 'hockey season' is also 'high season' in Phoenix they told the Coyotes Buh Bye; we want those dates to do other things. They already have plan to upgrade the facility for various types of events. There is a huge population base within a 20 minute drive.

That left the Coyotes needing a place to play. Fortunately, ASU was just completing a new hockey arena. The bad news is that with a capacity just over 5,000 it doesn't meet NHL standards. But Gary Bettman didn't want to lose the eyeball count from Phx so they got a waiver.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Interesting Story


I wouldn't disagree with you about 'that side of town.'

The Coyotes have had at least 3 different ownership groups (usually Canadian). The problem has been they want to be on the 'east' side. Suns owner had no interest in combining NHL with the NBA in one new arena.

The current owners (out of Las Vegas) have proposed a $1.7 billion new arena and entertainment district on land owned by the City of Tempe. Great location but dealing with the City could be a problem - or not. They're at least 3 years away from a new arena.

Coyotes lease with the City of Glendale expired after this season but they were willing to lease short-term. But City of Glendale had already done a deep dive into what they would do without the Coyotes. Realizing that 'hockey season' is also 'high season' in Phoenix they told the Coyotes Buh Bye; we want those dates to do other things. They already have plan to upgrade the facility for various types of events. There is a huge population base within a 20 minute drive.

That left the Coyotes needing a place to play. Fortunately, ASU was just completing a new hockey arena. The bad news is that with a capacity just over 5,000 it doesn't meet NHL standards. But Gary Bettman didn't want to lose the eyeball count from Phx so they got a waiver.

More important question, with #3 in the draft, do you take Logan Cooley? Or do you stick with a D man and take Simon Nemec?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Funny, i think they would strongly disagree that they are making their own decisions. They are doing whatever they are stuck with because your generation fucked them so badly that they long ago learned not to "want" too much. Because whatever their version of the American Dream is, it's almost certainly unattainable. You all would have called that "settling." But the notion that they are "choosing" that is just what you boomers tell yourselves so you can sleep at night (or perhaps so you can perpetuate some degree of sympathy long enough that we don't all unplug the entire generation from life support at the first opportunity). Just a hypothesis.

It's interesting; Phoenix now has a plurality of Hispanics by about one percent over 'whites'. For the metro area I'd guess maybe 35% or 1,750,000 Hispanics and most believe they are living the American Dream and have even accumulated generational wealth.

Afaik the Gen Z crowd feels like there's as much opportunity as ever.

I would suggest that 'our' problems come from the MBA - algorithm crowd; they're now the one's writing all the rules.

Originally Posted by bunt_q

More important question, with #3 in the draft, do you take Logan Cooley? Or do you stick with a D man and take Simon Nemec?

As an avid fan of the Avalanche I haven't even looked at the NHL draft (yet). In fact I'll prolly watch the Blues v Wild game tonight to check out who the Avs will play next, maybe even leave a couple of posts on Mile High Hockey.

[bulldurhamer]

New football stadium goes on ball arena location with plenty of room to spare. Nuggets/avalanches move back across where mile high currently stands. They’re due for an upgrade anyway

Imagine the development opportunities possible that could surround the stadium. River mile on steroids

A new area for nuggets at the denver coliseum area would be legit too. Anchor denvers new front door.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

[IMG]I would suggest that 'our' problems come from the MBA - algorithm crowd; they're now the one's writing all the rules.

Hey-recognize your betters. They’re the ones determining your life.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

You're assuming it stays where it is. Would you vote for it out by the airport, by Gaylord? Possibly not even in Denver?

The entertainment district thing has a much more mixed track record with football stadiums. And the parking is very, very important to them.

I would only vote for it in an urban setting that was accretive in purpose and a location that didn't "take" from something else - so basically a stadium in the existing spot or if they could fit it in the old mile high spot. I don't see a market for the entertainment thing in Denver, at least not like executed in LA/Vegas. Mixed-use though with high density residential, absolutely.

Mainly, a stadium repurposing seems a better option given the stadium bones are great and the exterior skin would be pretty easy to fix and would be much more cost effectively than a brand new stadium. Mile high can sorely use some venue space so that it can handle large group events, productions, conferences, etc (yes there is a large market for that stuff).

Most importantly, any smart person pursuing a new or substantially modified stadium would try to include the Federal interchange lands in such an endeavor and this could be the impetus for the City to get off it's arse and do something about reprograming that space. Should the whole area get taken through eminent domain, there's about 100 usable acres from the corner of Colfax/Federal, up to 20th then snaking south around the new residential by turntable and south to meow wolf.

Lastly, there is about 1,000 feet of S Platte River frontage that could leveraged and turned into a park amenity or something much more exciting than the abandoned comcast backyard it is today.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

Retrofitting the current stadium with a dome is probably not a viable option. I don’t think anyone ever suggested that (unless I missed something). Most likely, they would build a new stadium right next to the current one, on what is currently parking - just like they did when the old Mile High was replaced by Investco.

Roof retrofit definitely isn't an option. Not sure how long any of you have been here, but I'd compare Bronco fans to Packer fans. They have been here a long time and feel like they own the team. There is no chance in hell a stadium by the airport would get approved by voters. That's not to say an owner wouldn't dare do that on their own dime, but they would likely alienate themselves from the fan base. I do think billionaires are much more cognizant of their public persona now than in the past and I can't imagine they'd risk alienating themselves. Kroenke is the obvious exception to this - he could give less than two shits - funny enough he is related to the Waltons through marriage, but with his own personal fortune exceeding that of his walmart heiress wife. An owner will make much more if they're able to develop around the existing stadium than if they go to Gaylorland. The land values and long term benefits of vertical development would dwarf anything a superbowl every 20 years could generate and these Bs speak in dollars and sense, ultimately.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Demo Empower Field, play at Coors Field for two years during construction, and then return to Walton World at the same old site.

[TakeFive]

Go Bustang Go


Courtesy CDOT

CDOT is making plans to hit the gas on its statewide Bustang transit service
May 13, 2022 By Nathaniel Minor - CPR

Bustang, which the Colorado Department of Transportation started in 2015 as a bare-bones bus service, will soon see a significant boost in service along Interstates 25 and 70 under an expansion proposal unveiled Friday.

If the plan is approved by the Colorado Transportation Commission next week, CDOT will add two daily round trips to each of its main Bustang routes this summer. By 2024, buses will make as many as 15 daily trips between Denver and Grand Junction and 13 daily trips between major cities along the Front Range.

Anybody riding da buses?

Ridership is still below pre-pandemic levels on Bustang lines that connect Colorado Springs, Denver and Fort Collins. But ridership on the I-70 line in March 2022 hit an all-time high of more than 9,400 passengers.

When I had the privilege of riding Bustang from DUS up to Frisco I was thoroughly impressed; buses are Niiice.

[mhays]

I'd ride it if I was going in those directions.

I rode one of the newfangled private services from Reno to San Francisco several years ago. It was cheap, fast, and easy, on a well-maintained bus.

A trip from Yakima to Seattle on Greyhound five years ago was also pretty good, surprisingly. Everything except the seat across from me, which was rattling like, well, remember in Contact, when the seat in the transport craft was bolted though they weren't SUPPOSED to bolt it down, and it kind of went nuts before falling apart? I put my suitcase on it and it calmed down a little.

[Tykendo]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Demo Empower Field, play at Coors Field for two years during construction, and then return to Walton World at the same old site.

The Monforts would never allow that. Mess up their pristine turf. Blaspheme.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by Tykendo

The Monforts would never allow that. Mess up their pristine turf. Blaspheme.

Yeah can you imagine a franchise with a history of competitiveness ruining the vibe there? The fans may actually demand a chance of seeing a winning team later than June 15th every year.

[jimijam35]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muGyJEu12A8&t=2s i am sure we can do the same with the stadium like they are doing in madrid- of course if will cost about a billion too do it.

[TakeFive]

He lives in D.C. but his sister lives in Denver and he loves Denver

Originally Posted by mhays

I'd ride it if I was going in those directions.

I rode one of the newfangled private services from Reno to San Francisco several years ago. It was cheap, fast, and easy, on a well-maintained bus.

I get a pickup for "Prasad" at the JW Marriott Scottsdale Camelback Inn Resort & Spa. It's interesting in that it's a classic low density hotel along Lincoln Drive in the Town of Paradise Valley. Known locally as the Camelback Inn, it's along the edge of iconic (urban) Camelback Mountain and while a classic there are now newer and nicer hotels. See images Here and Here.

Prasad is rather a common name in India and many Prasad's have become doctors, especially Cardiologists. In town from D.C. he's going to Old Town Scottsdale to check out the young ladies.

So I happen to mention our urban blog and that our original 'leader' had graduated from CU and ended up in NoVA (Northern Virginia) as a Transit Planner. Prasad then made an interesting observation: "They've tried many things but nothing has really worked well." I thought what an interesting comment from someone from a country with 1.4 billion people.

Which begs a rhetorical question "what should transit look like and what should it do?"

Note: Émigré's from India have become rather ubiquitous in the desert and primarily work in either tech or the medical field. Like many others they live rather sparsely, send money home to their family and as soon as they can afford it they go out and buy a car.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

It's usually good for a concert or two.

I think we all tend to forget that Empower has the acoustics of a dirty rag wrapped in a wet cardboard box, thrown down an alley with a broken couch. That stadium is an absolute travesty for concerts.

[TakeFive]

City sidewalks, busy sidewalks; City street lights, even stop lights

Your tax $'s at work

• McAuliffe Elementary CDOT Grant Sidewalk Infrastructure Project
• Citywide Sidewalk - IC Contract - CD8 - Smith Road & North Quebec St (9 Seg) Phase 2 - Sidewalk improvements
• design and construct 7 missing sidewalk segments covering approximately 5,872 linear feet across council district 10

Okay, not that much sidewalk really in 2022 but there are also a number of pedestrian friendly upgrades to include intersections, street lights with safety improvements. For example:

13th Ave and 14th Ave and Signal rebuilds along Evans

• The overall objective of this project is the redesign and reconstruction of the traffic signals and intersections of two major corridors within Denver 13th Avenue, and 14th Avenue. There are a total of six (6) traffic signals.

Morrison Road Improvements

• Enhance pedestrian comfort and safety, improvements to streetscape. Between Nevada Place and Perry Street, project includes full depth asphalt reconstruction of Morrison Road with widened tree lawns and concrete sidewalks on each side.

[TakeFive]

Historic Denver Building Transformed into Affordable Housing
Published on May 12, 2022 - City of Denver

Pancratia Hall Lofts
3144 W. Frances Walsh Place, Denver


The building, designed by famed architect Harry W. J. Edbrooke, is named for Mother Pancratia Bonfils. Evan Semón Photography via Westword

Mayor Michael B. Hancock and City Councilman Kevin Flynn joined with Pancratia Hall Partners today to celebrate the grand opening of 74 affordable housing units at the newly restored Pancratia Hall, located within the Loretto Heights redevelopment. Constructed in 1929, the building was designated a historic landmark last year and has been fully restored to provide affordable housing for future generations.

Historic elements were retained. Evan Semón Photography

QUESTION: Granted it's even a little tough for me but how many of you can recall the late 1920's.

Make your Great, Great, Great Grandfather proud and revere those that came before.