Winnipeg Construction IX

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

I believe it was sorta hush hush stuff that would be only elaborated on once announced but if someone is able to cough up a couple details that would be amazing.

Like is it big? Medium? Tall? Prominent? Game changing? Skyline altering? Average infill or block swallowing?

Honestly the best would be if there were multiple little projects being cooked up that would start filling some gaps in the street fronts and also brought new residents. A few floors of residential and a floor or two of retail or office or commercial space of some sort.

In Winnipeg no development goes in a straight line. The bigger one is delayed because of leasing issues. We will see if they figure it out. The other will be taller but not as impactful as it could have been. Site has changed. Maybe announced around Christmas. Maybe later. Who knows.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

Not in revenue, Sales!
They sell between 2 - 3 mil a month.
They barely make a penny profit at the rate is going now.

Sales are revenue. Maybe they're making money elsewhere too from renting out space.

I have a hard time believing they make a few million sales each month.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I have a hard time believing they make a few million sales each month.

Hudson Bay is likely using the downtown store as their online fulfilment centre for the Manitoba market. They could definitely be boosting their monthly sales.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Hudson Bay is likely using the downtown store as their online fulfilment centre for the Manitoba market. They could definitely be boosting their monthly sales.

That's the only way they could be doing over $60,000 a day in sales which is what a few million a year breaks down to.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Hudson Bay is likely using the downtown store as their online fulfilment centre for the Manitoba market. They could definitely be boosting their monthly sales.

That oddly takes us back to what Eaton’s originally was, with its vast mail order fulfillment operation in what is now the CityPlace building that employed thousands of people.

[CoryB]

For clarity, I do not know that Hudson Bay is using the downtown store as a fulfilment centre. Rather I was just speculating that they have what amounts of a large warehouse sitting mostly "unused" it could make sense to repurpose the floors that aren't being actively used for retail into fulfilment for online purchases instead of building a net new building for that.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

For clarity, I do not know that Hudson Bay is using the downtown store as a fulfilment centre. Rather I was just speculating that they have what amounts of a large warehouse sitting mostly "unused" it could make sense to repurpose the floors that aren't being actively used for retail into fulfilment for online purchases instead of building a net new building for that.

Something like that sounds like it makes sense, although I can tell you that despite being part of a fairly devoted Bay shopper family and working with several people who like shopping at Hudson's Bay, I can't really think of any instances where someone I know has gone to the downtown Bay to pick something up that was delivered to the store. It's always either go to the store, buy something and take it home, or have it delivered right to your house.

[cheswick]

Looks like some activity on the Boyd Medical Building (not sure it's actual name 384? 388 Portage?). There's one of those yellow garbage shoot slides coming out of a window in the back.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Hudson Bay is likely using the downtown store as their online fulfilment centre for the Manitoba market. They could definitely be boosting their monthly sales.

They are not. They don't even have any extra inventory in storage – what you see is what's there.

I spoke to a manager there last year who said they did $5,000 on boxing day. So even if you use that number for what is generally the busiest day of the year as your daily sales, that's still not even $2 million.

I would honestly be surprised if they're cracking $1.5 million a year. I also know their losses from theft are staggering.

[trueviking]

residential building in front of the james avenue pumping station on waterfront has started piling.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by Jeff

I think people underestimate the value and usefulness the downtown Bay has to not only the increasing number of downtown residents but to those in town at the area’s hotels. I know when I’ve stayed in downtown Saskatoon and Edmonton and I have forgotten something, I have used their downtown Bay stores! It would be a huge blow if our downtown location closed for the travelers staying downtown IMO.

Well, if it were a huge blow, we'd being seeing tons of customers in it right now...

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

I think the conclusion that the bay will close at some point offers a unique opportunity to bring something creative and new to the area. It would probably require the luring of big name players to set up shops there and perhaps some form of high end residential conversions. If I were a person with f you money I know exactly what I'd do with that place. Hint:it would start with tearing down that God awful parkade.

Nobody will do that. Highly unlikely, atleast.

People with "🞵🞵🞵🞵 you" levels of money, well, don't 🞵🞵🞵🞵 around. They use their creativity to achieve both the greatest profit as well as security with a project. And they'll do it in a more promising market, like Vancouver or Toronto, because they have "🞵🞵🞵🞵 you" money.

The floorplate is too huge for residential and clearly retail doesn't work there. It would have to be boutique office, which in such volumes is only a huge one-off.

It has to be a complete anomaly... like Amazon bringing 100 people here. Or someone with a specific connection making Winnipeg the desired spot.

Now the heritage status makes everything all the harder.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by windypeg

Yes, even downtown Regina has a reasonably successful mall with a Bay attached that has saved me before when I was staying nearby and needed a new shirt.



I agree that the management of that store does a terrible job but despite that they still have whatever you need. If you're staying at a downtown hotel on business and you rip your pants are you really gonna want to spend $30 and an hour or more cabbing to Polo and back to get new ones instead of just walking over to the Bay? I go there for any clothes or housewares I need because I'm already downtown for work and it's easier to pop into the Bay for 5 mins than to take 45 mins making a detour to the mall. Within the last couple months I've stopped in for socks, a tie, a skillet, a coffee grinder... I don't get why nobody else who works downtown seems to go there for this kind of stuff when it's so convenient. People are just programmed to get in their car and drive out to a big box in the suburbs whenever they need anything. There's 70,000 people who work downtown and on any given week I bet most of them need something the Bay is selling, yet none of them go there. I honestly think the run-down condition of the store is a big contributor to people thinking there's no reason for them to go there.

This is the dilemma. I honestly think a part of it, is because of it's location. My only frame of reference for a downtown Bay store outside of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver is in Calgary, and that one is right on 7th ave where pretty much everyone gets on and off the C-train or busses for work. It's super convenient and also a focal structure for the skywalk system in the winter.

It is much smaller than the Bay in Winnipeg but busy! It also doesn't have the same "run down" condition. The building inside looks fantastic. Though I have never thought of the Bay in Winnipeg as "run down", i understand what is meant by the statement

Still though, the Bay in Winnipeg on paper shouldn't be struggling as much as it seems to be - considering the downtown working population as well as the population downtown and in the west end area too as alluded to by several posters

It is interesting to hear how much the Polo Park store affected this downtown location. It's such a big, beautiful structure. Really sad the current state of affairs for this building.

I had a friend from Montreal who lived in Winnipeg for close to a decade and he always, always would message me about the downtown Bay in Winnipeg being full of unrealized potential

[buzzg]

I don’t think The Bay could possibly be in a better location downtown. It’s located directly on the busiest transit route in the city, right before the downtown RT terminus (Balmoral Station), across the street from U of W, attached to Portage Place and the SkyWalk network – which includes many of the hotels and RBCCC.

Where else could it be better located?

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I don’t think The Bay could possibly be in a better location downtown. It’s located directly on the busiest transit route in the city, right before the downtown RT terminus (Balmoral Station), across the street from U of W, attached to Portage Place and the SkyWalk network – which includes many of the hotels and RBCCC.

Where else could it be better located?

I thought at one time the U of W floated the idea of using a couple of floor at The Bay? I would think the city would be courting both the U of W and the U of M (for a downtown "campus") to use at least some of that space. Am I totally off the beam here?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Well, if it were a huge blow, we'd being seeing tons of customers in it right now...

Nobody will do that. Highly unlikely, atleast.

People with "🞵🞵🞵🞵 you" levels of money, well, don't 🞵🞵🞵🞵 around. They use their creativity to achieve both the greatest profit as well as security with a project. And they'll do it in a more promising market, like Vancouver or Toronto, because they have "🞵🞵🞵🞵 you" money.

The floorplate is too huge for residential and clearly retail doesn't work there. It would have to be boutique office, which in such volumes is only a huge one-off.

It has to be a complete anomaly... like Amazon bringing 100 people here. Or someone with a specific connection making Winnipeg the desired spot.

Now the heritage status makes everything all the harder.

The floorplate is currently too big for residential.

My idea would involve carving sort of a pedestrian plaza out of the centre of the building, keeping the aesthetic components of the building as intact as possible while essentially splitting the floorplate into two large kidney shaped halves. The centre would be lined with cafes and little shoppes and I might even go so far as to include some sort of ornamental dome feature sorta like this:



The parkade site would then make way for some either residential or mixed use tower, but atop a podium that was constructed to match the Bay's aesthetic. With the floorplate chopped up it would make residential conversions much easier.

I'm not saying its realistic, rather my own 🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 for a small component of a European flavoured downtown, because I realize the proposal I'm making would be incredibly expensive. If I had pockets deep enough I would not hesitate. Imagine being able to transform the bay into one of the most prestigious and desirable addresses in Winnipeg.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

The floorplate is currently too big for residential.

My idea would involve carving sort of a pedestrian plaza out of the centre of the building, keeping the aesthetic components of the building as intact as possible while essentially splitting the floorplate into two large kidney shaped halves. The centre would be lined with cafes and little shoppes and I might even go so far as to include some sort of ornamental dome feature sorta like this:



The parkade site would then make way for some either residential or mixed use tower, but atop a podium that was constructed to match the Bay's aesthetic. With the floorplate chopped up it would make residential conversions much easier.

I'm not saying its realistic, rather my own 🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 for a small component of a European flavoured downtown, because I realize the proposal I'm making would be incredibly expensive. If I had pockets deep enough I would not hesitate. Imagine being able to transform the bay into one of the most prestigious and desirable addresses in Winnipeg.

That is stunning!

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by buzzg

They are not. They don't even have any extra inventory in storage – what you see is what's there.

I spoke to a manager there last year who said they did $5,000 on boxing day. So even if you use that number for what is generally the busiest day of the year as your daily sales, that's still not even $2 million.

I would honestly be surprised if they're cracking $1.5 million a year. I also know their losses from theft are staggering.

Wow. Not many of you ever worked in retail so I will try and clarify.
Misunderstanding. Purely impossible. I have been in retail all my working life and in management and worked at The Bay until a few years ago. So perhaps, that amount is what that manager took in for their respective department.Which I still find peculiar and I will inquire.
I am close to a few who still work there and these amounts discussed here are beyond laughable.
The store would take in about $65,000 to $90,000 on any given day. Some days more or less.

One forgets there is furniture, expensive mattress sets, which do sell...some major appliances and many small appliances?
Cosmetics>plus...does not take much to add up. Still, they are not bring $$ in that they should but...the amounts quoted are way off........................

Wow. the staff in the furniture dept alone earn more than what some of you mistakenly and absurdly claim here. lol. Yes, the staff amounts are less than half from lets say 12 years ago but for the few remaining, they earn quite well... much more than you can imagine.
I just could not contain myself by not ignoring.

Things are not great at THE BAY but the amounts being discussed here are so incorrect.
The payroll alone would triple that or more ! lol..Wow...

Also, 1 of my friends there tells me the store have many people online ordering and picking up there and that part is growing. The store gets a small payment from head office for handling each item and people using that or any location for pick up.

Once again,
There is no way it would remain open at that paltry $5000 amount, the store does over ten times that on an average day which is half form when I left there. That is still not great but a Wendy's or KFC would do that $5,000 amount.

[CoryB]

Hudson Bay basically offered to give the space to U of W for free (likely for a tax write-off for an in-kind style donation). The university ultimately declined much like it was though they could be a possible new tenant for the mostly vacant NRC building on Ellice. It seems the days of U of W pushing outward are mostly done.

In terms of U of M, it is busy focused on its own Fort Garry campus redevelopment. That said moving fine arts and architecture to downtown Winnipeg would have made a lot of sense for the possible synergies.

The space has also been pitched many times as possible office space with the Hydro HQ project bid being one of the most public. The large floor plates though mean lots of offices with no direct sunlight, same sort of issue as residential.

The art gallery also did a hard pass on using the building as the location of its Inuit art gallery.

Heck, Hudson Bay even tried to repurpose the space internally with the basement becoming Zellers with thoughts that other high end banners like Lord & Taylor and Saks could eventually be added but that too fell flat.

At this point it seems without some major government funding to back a redevelopment of the Hudson Bay building it is not going to see any significant changes from the status quo.

PS it is somewhat laughable to think the Hudson Bay building in downtown Winnipeg could be renovated to be like the 200 year old Galleria Umberto I in Naples which is part of a UNSECO World Heritage Site.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Hudson Bay basically offered to give the space to U of W for free (likely for a tax write-off for an in-kind style donation). The university ultimately declined much like it was though they could be a possible new tenant for the mostly vacant NRC building on Ellice. It seems the days of U of W pushing outward are mostly done.

In terms of U of M, it is busy focused on its own Fort Garry campus redevelopment. That said moving fine arts and architecture to downtown Winnipeg would have made a lot of sense for the possible synergies.

The space has also been pitched many times as possible office space with the Hydro HQ project bid being one of the most public. The large floor plates though mean lots of offices with no direct sunlight, same sort of issue as residential.

The art gallery also did a hard pass on using the building as the location of its Inuit art gallery.

Heck, Hudson Bay even tried to repurpose the space internally with the basement becoming Zellers with thoughts that other high end banners like Lord & Taylor and Saks could eventually be added but that too fell flat.

At this point it seems without some major government funding to back a redevelopment of the Hudson Bay building it is not going to see any significant changes from the status quo.

PS it is somewhat laughable to think the Hudson Bay building in downtown Winnipeg could be renovated to be like the 200 year old Galleria Umberto I in Naples which is part of a UNSECO World Heritage Site.

Yes.
All you said above is pretty much the way it is and remains.
The floor plate as is is mostly conducive to retail dept store and warehouse spaces.
There is a proposal that my sources @ The Bay tell me is gaining traction and might be awhile but perhaps something will come of it. better than no hope at all. I, as most citizens of Manitoba hope that we get a firm plan going sooner than later. Later might be too late!

[trueviking]

I've personally worked on at four redevelopment options for the bay...every one of them cut a big hole in the middle....like a giant doughnut.