Winnipeg Construction IX

[vellakaran]

Originally Posted by Hecate

The people living in bedroom communities spend hundreds of millions of dollars every year in the city of Winnipeg. If you don't think that is contribution enough... wow. And it's not that they have to. I go to Winnipeg maybe once a month. Otherwise I do all my shopping in Selkirk, birds hill, or oakbank. Or else online. my community is full of stables, so all the city folks can keep their horses. There are two beautiful golf courses that the city folks like to come use too. Not to mention the nice little beach and park that is birds hill. Every year we don't mind you coming out this way for the folk festival even though you tie up our roads and cause long wait lines at our businesses. Not to mention all the litter left behind after the party. You see it goes both ways. Businesses in my community benefit from city people just like the businesses in the city benefit from rural people. When people spend money in establishments it goes towards paying people's wages and and taxes. Not to mention that Winnipeg is the provincial capital so it belongs to all Manitobans. Just like Ottawa belongs to all Canadians.

Every time I go to BHP I take provincial roads to a PROVINCIAL park. Seeing as Winnipeg is almost 70% of the population, this city probably subsidizes the highway you use and 'your' park.

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by Hecate

The people living in bedroom communities spend hundreds of millions of dollars every year in the city of Winnipeg. If you don't think that is contribution enough... wow. And it's not that they have to. I go to Winnipeg maybe once a month. Otherwise I do all my shopping in Selkirk, birds hill, or oakbank. Or else online. my community is full of stables, so all the city folks can keep their horses. There are two beautiful golf courses that the city folks like to come use too. Not to mention the nice little beach and park that is birds hill. Every year we don't mind you coming out this way for the folk festival even though you tie up our roads and cause long wait lines at our businesses. Not to mention all the litter left behind after the party. You see it goes both ways. Businesses in my community benefit from city people just like the businesses in the city benefit from rural people. When people spend money in establishments it goes towards paying people's wages and and taxes. Not to mention that Winnipeg is the provincial capital so it belongs to all Manitobans. Just like Ottawa belongs to all Canadians.

This argument is really ... interesting. So if you work in Winnipeg and shop in Winnipeg then you put just as much strain as any Winnipegger does on Winnipeg infrastructure (actually you're putting more strain on Winnipeg transportation infrastructure than a resident of the city does if they take transit or cycle). But because you shop in the city then you're paying your fair share? Well in that case, when I get my property tax bill from the city I'll be sure to let them know that I actually don't owe anything, seeing as how I've spent so much money in Winnipeg already. I don't think they'll see it the same way.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by windypeg

This argument is really ... interesting. So if you work in Winnipeg and shop in Winnipeg then you put just as much strain as any Winnipegger does on Winnipeg infrastructure (actually you're putting more strain on Winnipeg transportation infrastructure than a resident of the city does if they take transit or cycle). But because you shop in the city then you're paying your fair share? Well in that case, when I get my property tax bill from the city I'll be sure to let them know that I actually don't owe anything, seeing as how I've spent so much money in Winnipeg already. I don't think they'll see it the same way.

Getting rid of property tax and creating a City Sales Tax would solve the problem... if that's even possible.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Getting rid of property tax and creating a City Sales Tax would solve the problem... if that's even possible.

Provincial legislation says they can't. I'm intrigued by the idea though.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by wardlow

Thank you for saying this. One need only travel as far as Minneapolis/St. Paul to see what this looks like. The City of Minneapolis proper is a city of only ~350,000 people, which I would guess was all built up by 1960. Yet I don't think it's citizens bemoan the hundreds thousands of people who live in St. Louis Park, Bloomington, St. Anthony, etc. as avaricious freeloaders the same way we do here.

And aside from drive on city roads, what other municipal services do capital region dwellers "take advantage" of? Unless they are living in parts of East or West St. Paul that pay for City water/sewer, I can't think of any.

^This. I always find it interesting when people disparage bedroom communities and their dwellers as though they are somehow a drain on the City. Commercial, office and industrial assessments in Winnipeg, where most of these people presumably work and shop, pay a whole lot more in taxes than residential does, but without the larger demand for services.

Lots on this forum complain that "Amber Trails and Sage Creek are a drain on Winnipeg! They need new roads, water, sewer, community clubs and maintenance on all that! What a drain!". Well, if that's the case, wouldn't they be happy that these developments go in just beyond the Perimeter? If new developments are such a drain on Winnipeg like they claim, let East St. Paul and West St. Paul deal with that supposed "drain" - let the RM pay for pipe renewal, snow clearing, garbage pick up, etc. etc. etc. while Winnipeg benefits from employees and shoppers.

[pegcityboy]

Comparing apples to oranges with Minneapolis , first of all , their interstate system ( I- 94, 394 ,494 , 694, and 35 N and S are paid by state and federal not the city ( this is coming to an end soon ) so state of Minnesota along with Federal subsidies pays for major roads in the twin cities metro , secondly people in all the adjoining suburbs live and work in their suburbs mostly and pay their taxes there ,IE ( people in Bloomington usually work in Bloomington (not always ) so they pay for secondary roads services in their own suburb , in contrast 85-90% of people in the so called outlying areas work in Winnipeg and use our services and roads for their own needs , big difference there right away . Secondly a few posters back saying we clog up roads for birds hill park folk festival , that's a few days a year , like a trip to Mall of America for Minnesotans not the 200-250 days a year that a commuter uses Winnipeg services. My family and I go to Winnipeg and Gimli area in summer ( cottage there) so by some peoples arguments we pay taxes to the province , taxes in the city and shop in the city s we should all be praised to no end for saving the capital region ! Lol I said before if outlying areas had the events , concerts , shopping , university , airport etc , commuters whose income is mostly city based , , amenities CAUSE of city , EVENTS cause of city , use our infrastructure for THEIR JOBS ( jobs because of the CITY ) so arguments contrary are assenine unless commuters job isn't in Winnipeg . Lastly Minneapolis / St Paul suburbs ( most of them at least ) have services Drs offices , fire and police , medical centres , ample shopping etc so people residing in them can stay in their area and get most amenities close to home thus helping their own area with taxes and while supporting their county or municipality .

[pegcityboy]

[QUOTE=pegcityboy;8077526]Comparing apples to oranges with Minneapolis , first of all , their interstate system ( I- 94, 394 ,494 , 694, and 35 N and S are paid by state and federal not the city ( this is coming to an end soon ) so state of Minnesota along with Federal subsidies pays for major roads in the twin cities metro , secondly people in all the adjoining suburbs live and work in their suburbs mostly and pay their taxes there ,IE ( people in Bloomington usually work in Bloomington (not always ) so they pay for secondary roads services in their own suburb , in contrast 85-90% of people in the so called outlying areas work in Winnipeg and use our services and roads for their own needs , big difference there right away . Secondly a few posters back saying we clog up roads for birds hill park folk festival , that's a few days a year , like a trip to Mall of America for Minnesotans not the 200-250 days a year that a commuter uses Winnipeg services. My family and I go to Winnipeg and Gimli area in summer ( cottage there) so by some peoples arguments we pay taxes to the province , taxes in the city and shop in the city s we should all be praised to no end for saving the capital region ! Lol I said before if outlying areas had the events , concerts , shopping , university , airport etc , commuters whose income is mostly city based , , amenities CAUSE of city , EVENTS cause of city , use our infrastructure for THEIR JOBS ( jobs because of the CITY ) so arguments contrary are assenine unless commuters job isn't in Winnipeg . Lastly Minneapolis / St Paul suburbs ( most of them at least ) have services Drs offices , fire and police , medical centres , ample shopping etc so people residing in them can stay in their area and get most amenities close to home thus helping their own area with taxes and while supporting their county or municipality . You picked the wrong city to compare Winnipeg to and wrong poster cause I have family there and both work for the cities ( one in St Paul and other one in Minneapolis )

[Hecate]

do you people throw 🞵🞵🞵🞵 at tourists when you see them driving down the roads they didn't pay for!?!?! Laugh out loud! Wow. My buddy owns a trucking company in Springfield he employs around 80 people he said about a third of his staff come from Winnipeg. The owner of pine ridge hollow employs people from Winnipeg. The golf courses employ people from Winnipeg. The schools employ people from Winnipeg. Are they equally contributing to my community or are they just using all these services and not paying for them... that gravel road doesn't grate itself you know!!!

[pacman]

This whole city resident vs bedroom community resident 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 match is all about perspective. Each side can come up with different situations to validate their own arguments and counter the other's arguments. Personally I think both sides have benefits and both sides have drawbacks. One thing I dislike though is how over the top the "city dwellers" make it sound to their detriment. As others have said, the out of towners who commute into town are typically employed in commercial settings where their businesses pay their fair share of taxes to proportionately support their drain on things like sewer and water service to the business, police and fire service to the business, etc.... So if we boil it down to strictly overloading and causing extra wear and tear on the roads I think that's a fair argument. If any of you have looked at the City's budget, or even used your eyes to simply look at the road inventory, you will see that local ie: residential streets comprise the vast majority of roads in Winnipeg. The out of towners typically stick to the City's regional streets to commute so you would then have to further isolate their "drain" on city services strictly to regional street "wear and tear". Given that the Province subsidizes a large portion of regional street maintenance and new construction through direct funding as well as transfer payments, I would say that the net cost to the city for the services they provide to out of towners is negligable.

Those who bring property taxes into the argument saying things like "if out of towners think they're carrying their weight without paying property taxes then I'll just tell the City the same thing when I get my tax bill" must understand that there is a huge portion of the city's budget that goes strictly to local services (residential streets, police and fire, swimming pools, libraries, soccer fields, community clubs, etc...) that out of towners don't use or pay proportionately higher than residents. Property taxes as well as business taxes (that out of towners are supporting) pay for those things. It's a two way street with pros and cons for both sides and unless you recognize the benefits of each side, you don't see the whole picture.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Getting rid of property tax and creating a City Sales Tax would solve the problem... if that's even possible.

pretty sure what we'd see as a result is an explosion of big box retail expansion just outside the perimeter

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

pretty sure what we'd see as a result is an explosion of big box retail expansion just outside the perimeter

And even more online sales.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

pretty sure what we'd see as a result is an explosion of big box retail expansion just outside the perimeter

Yeah, you're right about that for most things. Maybe tolls at major roads coming into the city. If Pembina, McGilvary, Mcphillips, Main, Henderson and Lag north and south had tolls. Nothing too expensive, $1? Would result in millions of dollars to support those major arteries.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Getting rid of property tax and creating a City Sales Tax would solve the problem... if that's even possible.

Not that I support that idea but having a flat payroll tax for anyone working in Winnipeg would be a better approach as you then hit people working in Winnipeg but living just outside at the source while you don't touch true tourists.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Yeah, you're right about that for most things. Maybe tolls at major roads coming into the city. If Pembina, McGilvary, Mcphillips, Main, Henderson and Lag north and south had tolls. Nothing too expensive, $1? Would result in millions of dollars to support those major arteries.

Only problem with the routes you named (except lag) is that they would all be ridiculously expensive to upgrade to the specifications required to have them tolled. Tolls are a fine enough idea, we just need those routes to be limited access because 1. The people could turn off the roads before they went through payment checkpoints and create a whole new set of problems and 2. Because nobody is going to pay to use a glorified city street. There has to be some sort of perceived advantage to using a tolled road. Otherwise you won't be able to sell the concept to the public.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Riverman

That building is still largely vacant.

Crystal Construction owned and occupied, also a dental surgeon leasing space, main floor though has all been empty since it was built, going on 3-4 years now!

I've seen companies doing soil testing at the vacant sites along Henderson at Green, Dunrobin and Johnson for years now, thought I heard something along the lines that these sites needed to left vacant for a set number of years and tested before they could be built on.

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Maybe tolls at major roads coming into the city. If Pembina, McGilvary, Mcphillips, Main, Henderson and Lag north and south had tolls. Nothing too expensive, $1? Would result in millions of dollars to support those major arteries.

The municipalities outside the city would quickly respond with tolls of their own. You know, to offset the taxes they lose when their homeowners shop at the box stores in Winnipeg, or run a business in Winnipeg.

Winnipeggers wouldn't even be able to go a quarter of the way around the Perimeter without paying a toll.

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

I've seen companies doing soil testing at the vacant sites along Henderson at Green, Dunrobin and Johnson for years now, thought I heard something along the lines that these sites needed to left vacant for a set number of years and tested before they could be built on.

I would have guessed that it was the other way 'round: If you suspected a soil contamination problem, the site would need to be left vacant for a set number of years before you could build without testing.

(Which is dishonest, but the system is set up to punish only those who are honest about spills.)

[wardlow]

Nice-looking mixed use project at 456 Bannatyne just east of Isabel St. is seeking Board of Adjustment approval. (Scroll to the bottom of the report to see renderings.) Four stories, one commercial unit. Will replace a duplex that looks to date back to the 1880s.

Very exciting to see new infill development like this in this part of the city. Seems like such an obvious place to be revitalized.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Roger Strong

The municipalities outside the city would quickly respond with tolls of their own. You know, to offset the taxes they lose when their homeowners shop at the box stores in Winnipeg, or run a business in Winnipeg.

Winnipeggers wouldn't even be able to go a quarter of the way around the Perimeter without paying a toll.

The perimeter is provincial.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by cheswick

The perimeter is provincial.

And much of it is inside City limits.