Great Lakes Cities

[lio45]

Originally Posted by pj3000

And waaaayyyy better pizza.

Amen to that! Jacksonville-Style Pizza is the best.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

These are still just assumptions.

Truth is, I’m willing to be more American leisure activity occurs in lakes than in oceans. People love Lakes! First of all, the water is actually drinkable, unlike seawater. Plus you really aren’t going to worry about sharks, whales, etc. it’s a great way to enjoy swimming, boating, sailing, jet skiing, cruising, etc.

Now if you want to surf or snorkel to see incredible wildlife, then of course the best place is out in the oceans. No debate about that.

But I’m not sure you can even defend your clai that humans would “prefer to swim in ocean waters”.

Who drinks water directly from lakes??

I am I missing something here? Because it's not a good idea if you are, just to let you know.

I love the Great Lakes and all the smaller lakes and rivers and ponds and creeks too. It's where I grew up and live now. I just want to dispense with the notion that swimming in the ocean is somehow unpleasant in comparison to swimming in "Midwestern freshwater" as was claimed. If that's someone's personal preference, then that's totally fine and good. But come on, if the same preference was held by a high percentage of the population, Lake Michigan would have a Myrtle Beach, Lake Huron an Outer Banks, Lake Ontario a Jersey Shore.

Is this Cheboygan, Michigan or Sheboygan, Wisconsin?



Gary, Indiana?

[LouisVanDerWright]

^^^ No one said it's "unpleasant", they said it's more pleasant to swim in fresh water when the temperature is comparable.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ lake winnebago is super shallow, especially considering its size (215 sq. miles).

it has an average depth of only 15.5' and a maximum depth of only 21'.

that's one ridiculously flat and shallow lake bottom for something that covers over 200 sq. miles.

lake st. clair is also really, really shallow for its size (430 sq. miles). average depth: 11'. max depth: 27'.

Winnebago would actually turn into a giant wild rice paddy if it weren't for human activity. The lake level is about 2' higher than it is naturally because of the locks in Appleton and the boat traffic kills the wild rice with wave action and props. They've been doing a tremendous job bringing the rice back to Poygan, Butte Des Morts, and Winnebago with restoration projects, but it will never be like it was when it was basically a giant wheatfield for the indigenous population to harvest each fall. I just hope they get the rice restored to the point where I can go out in a canoe and legally harvest a load of delicious rice (another thing you can't do in the ocean, lol).

Originally Posted by lio45

"What's most important at the beach is that it has to be freshwater rather than saltwater, the rest is secondary" definitely sounds like a homer Midwesterner trying to convince himself...

I would say generally speaking, the water has to be clean and warm, no seaweed ideally, the weather has to be sunny and warm, and also the beach should be sandy (it's a well known drawback of the Eastern French Riviera beaches (Nice and points east), they're pebble beaches. In the Antibes area they're sandy.)

Saltwater makes it easier to float, which is a positive IMO. I recall swimming in Lake Huron at an Ontario beach and if I ever got anything in my mouth I would spit the water rather than swallow it anyway, "fresh" or not.

Waves are a bonus; I'm guessing most people like them (especially kids), but old people sometimes prefer it when it's calm.

I really really really don't think the main criterion on most people lists is "freshwater or saltwater?" when shopping for a beachside place to vacation at. Sorry, Michigan Homer (you know who you are).

Can you waterski in the ocean? Not pleasantly. Can you tube? Maybe based on the weather conditions. I've sailed the length of the keys on a sailboat multiple times, I've been to the Florida panhandle multiple times, Miami multiple times, I've been to South Carolina Kiawah Island, I've been to Santa Monica, I've been to Coney Island. At no point in time was the ocean experience superior to what I've experienced in the Midwest...

That said I've also never had as enjoyable of a beach going experience in January, February, December, or March in the Midwest as I've had in these areas. I mean come on, maybe if you have a billion dollars and a huge yacht, the ocean is pretty cool, but if you actually want to enjoy the full offerings of the water, you can't even do that in most places on the ocean and it's certainly not going to be very fun if you like waterskiing. Meanwhile my river is glass every morning when I wake up which is, to bring this thread back to the topic at hand, the water skiing equivalent of three feet of champagne powder downhill skiing...

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

These are still just assumptions.

Truth is, I’m willing to bet that far more American leisure activity occurs in lakes than in oceans. People love Lakes! First of all, the water is actually drinkable, unlike seawater. Plus you really aren’t going to worry about sharks, whales, etc. it’s a great way to enjoy swimming, boating, sailing, jet skiing, cruising, etc.

Now if you want to surf or snorkel to see incredible wildlife, then of course the best place is out in the oceans. No debate about that.

But I’m not sure you can even defend your claim that humans would “prefer to swim in ocean waters”.

Yeah, like I said, you can't even water ski in the ocean. Not sure about your fear of whales though...

Originally Posted by lio45

"Jetskiing in the ocean outside Miami in February" is apples to apples with skidooing on the frozen surface of your lakes in February. If you complain you find the former too cold for you, I'd strongly advise you don't attempt the latter dressed the same way.

Can you do this on the ocean? Didn't think so:

• Video Link

Ice boating on Lake Winnebago.

Distance Traveled: 98 MILES

Top Speed: 52 MPH

• Video Link

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by pj3000

If that's someone's personal preference, then that's totally fine and good. But come on, if the same preference was held by a high percentage of the population, Lake Michigan would have a Myrtle Beach, Lake Huron an Outer Banks, Lake Ontario a Jersey Shore.

Wasaga Beach is essentially the Jersey Shore of Ontario but instead of roided-out Italian dudes it's 17 year olds strung out on molly at their after-prom.


from:http://trc.daily-beat.com/news/2015/11/electric-elements-pre-sale-is-coming-in-time-for-christmas/


from: http://event-carnival.com/canada/electric-elements-festival

We even had the precursor to the actual Jersey Shore tv show. Please don't tell me you never tuned in to Grand Benders!

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Who drinks water directly from lakes??

I am I missing something here? Because it's not a good idea if you are, just to let you know.

I think my point is that lakes do double duty of being a source of entertainment and drinking water for communities

I love the Great Lakes and all the smaller lakes and rivers and ponds and creeks too. It's where I grew up and live now. I just want to dispense with the notion that swimming in the ocean is somehow unpleasant in comparison to swimming in "Midwestern freshwater" as was claimed. If that's someone's personal preference, then that's totally fine and good. But come on, if the same preference was held by a high percentage of the population, Lake Michigan would have a Myrtle Beach, Lake Huron an Outer Banks, Lake Ontario a Jersey Shore.

Is this Cheboygan, Michigan or Sheboygan, Wisconsin?



Gary, Indiana?

Hello, but those places are popular because they are warm weather locales, not because they are on the ocean. If the Great Lakes were down in Texas, you KNOW there would be some kick — lakefront party towns down there, and it would be a blast.

But come to think of it, there is already a town on one of the Great Lakes that is far more exciting than all those resort towns (combined) you mentioned.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

But come to think of it, there is already a town on one of the Great Lakes that is far more exciting than all those resort towns (combined) you mentioned.

There are actually two towns that are way better than just about anywhere on the continent, save for a handful of coastal cities.

Chicago and Toronto are two of the best and most urban cities anywhere in north america.

They are the two queen cities of the great lakes.

[benp]

Chicago. The color of the Lake Michigan was the most incredible blue the days I was there.
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[pj3000]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I think my point is that lakes do double duty of being a source of entertainment and drinking water for communities

Got it. This is just going off on really strange tangents now.

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Hello, but those places are popular because they are warm weather locales, not because they are on the ocean. If the Great Lakes were down in Texas, you KNOW there would be some kick — lakefront party towns down there, and it would be a blast.

But come to think of it, there is already a town on one of the Great Lakes that is far more exciting than all those resort towns (combined) you mentioned.

Uh no, it's because they are warm AND on the ocean. People from the midwest go to the Carolinas and Gulf Coast in massive droves in the SUMMER, when it is quite warm in their midwestern (often Great Lakes region) home.

I agree that if the Great Lakes were in Texas it would be a huge vacation attraction, of course. But they're not.

And that would totally — if they were in Texas (or anywhere else) by the way.

So now we're going to bring Chicago into a back and forth about your opinion on how you find swimming in "Midwestern freshwater" far more pleasurable than swimming in the ocean?

Why?

Do you seriously think I was talking about Myrtle Beach or whatever other crappy beach resort town to attempt to compare it with Chicago? This is beyond weird now.

But since you brought Chicago into it for some odd reason... do you seriously think that Americans and Canadians vacation in Chicago for the same reasons they vacation in Myrtle Beach? I don't think so. And what do you think they vacation in Myrtle Beach for? Hmmm... I wonder.

[benp]

Buffalo, where Lake Erie feeds into the Niagara River. Many of the images rom Milwaukee reminded me of Buffalo, which was also heavily German influenced.

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[pj3000]

The salt is killing my eyes!

[pj3000]

Oh, I have have a little cut... and the saltwater is just really irritating it now... oh no... this —. Not pleasurable for me.

[pj3000]

Where are my fresh squeaky cheese curds!!??

Probably eaten by some nasty sea creature, oh nooo! I'm never leaving my Midwestern freshwater again, ahhhhhh

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by Boisebro

is Jacksonville a lake?

Jacksonville can sort of be in this conversation. It is a southern city built like a Great Lakes/Midwestern town. Check my housing posts on the JV thread to see.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by Razor

100% Agree..Not being to see the other side of a lake a la' the Great Lakes is certainly rare..That's what's so fascinating about being on any one of them. That and seeing Ocean vessels traversing on the lakes. Here in Ontario, the land of the lakes, Lake Nipissing is the only other one I can think of where you can see the horizon any which direction..Parts of the Saint Lawrence River as well.

You also can’t see the other side of Lake St. Clair! It isn’t officially a Great Lake, but it is a part of the Great Lakes.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by north 42

You also can’t see the other side of Lake St. Clair! It isn’t officially a Great Lake, but it is a part of the Great Lakes.

Yes..Another good example..Definitely another outlier though.


re: Ocean vs lake recreation

I think it's silly even debating it..They both have their merits.
If you ask me, the most versatile water for recreation are small lakes and not the Great Lakes or Oceans anyways. They are just less intense all around.

[Acajack]

I am from an Atlantic Canadian family and lived in that region close to the ocean for part of my life. One of my parents literally grew up with the Atlantic Ocean right across the road. That house is still in the family as an ancestral home and we go there with the kids every couple of years in the summer.

I've also lived much of my life in Ontario-Quebec and have been in tons of lakes big, small and huge.

I've also travelled around the world and been to tropical and subtropical ocean beaches all over the place.

I am not super fussy or finicky but if I have my choice in terms of water, I pick:

- swimming pool

(big drop)

- lake water and ocean water tied - with perhaps a slight edge to lake water. The ocean is great for some things but there is a lot more potential for gross yucky stuff in it. Even on the cleanest beaches one never knows. Stuff dropped from boats and ships. Jellyfish. Etc.

Yes, you can have stuff dropped from ships in the Great Lakes due to commercial and recreational navigation but in my experience there isn't as much.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by benp

Buffalo, where Lake Erie feeds into the Niagara River. Many of the images rom Milwaukee reminded me of Buffalo, which was also heavily German influenced.

lovely pics of buffalo!

buffalo is one of the few great lakes cities i haven't spent time in (driving by it on the expressway doesn't count), but from google street-viewing myself around town, it does look like it's a good candidate as a bookend parallel to milwaukee at the other end of the great lakes region.

i just wish that buffalo's river went right through the heart of downtown like the milwaukee river does, as opposed to being offset to the side of downtown ala the cuyahoga in cleveland.

Originally Posted by north 42

You also can’t see the other side of Lake St. Clair! It isn’t officially a Great Lake, but it is a part of the Great Lakes.

ah yes, at 23 miles wide, the always forgotten "6th great lake" would be another "you can't see the other side of it" lake.

Originally Posted by Razor

re: Ocean vs lake recreation

I think it's silly even debating it..They both have their merits.

yeah, that whole nonsense was an incredibly stupid tangent for this thread to go off on. all other things being equal (and they usually aren't), i'd rather swim in freshwater because you don't have to shower afterwards, but it's not like swimming in salt water is terrible or anything, just keep your eyes and mouth closed if you go underwater. or just wear a snorkel mask or goggles if you want to see underwater. it's not that hard to figure out.

Originally Posted by Razor

If you ask me, the most versatile water for recreation are small lakes and not the Great Lakes or Oceans anyways.

it depends on the water recreation you're into. if you're into water skiing, then smaller lakes are certainly better than the great lakes/ocean, but if you're into sailing, then a larger body of water is definitely better.

if you're into scuba diving or surfing, then the ocean obviously trumps all.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

it depends on the water recreation you're into. if you're into water skiing, then smaller lakes are certainly better than the great lakes/ocean, but if you're into sailing, then a larger body of water is definitely better.

if you're into scuba diving or surfing, then the ocean obviously trumps all.

Yes, True..Even rivers have their merits..You just can't boat out to a secluded bay, drop anchor and still fish on glassy waters while staring at a Boreal tree line while listening to the Loons and White Throated Sparrows. Look at me painting a visual!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL_YJC1SjHE

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Razor

Yes, True..Even rivers have their merits..You just can't boat out to a secluded bay, drop anchor and still fish on glassy waters while staring at a Boreal tree line while listening to the Loons and White Throated Sparrows. Look at me painting a visual!

and what a lovely visual it is!

some of the best days of my life have been spent in a small fishing boat with my best friend and cooler full of beer on some random small lake in northern wisconsin.