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  #421  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by The North One View Post
This is me as well, being used to Chicago's lakeshore when I went to Miami for the first time I thought "this is the ocean?" I mean it's obviously beautiful but it was nothing really different or special in comparison to Chicago's lakefront. In fact, I thought it was an inferior experience, the salty water is torture to swim in and jet skiing — there, ocean water stings your eyes and if any sort of drop accidentally gets in your mouth it tastes disgusting. I also went in February and the water was pretty cold.


Bizarre. I grew up going to the beach on Long Island, and less occasionally, California, and remember my parents bringing us to the sandy shore just north of Chicago and we were all bored stiff. No waves. No sea creatures. No convoy of giant ocean freighters converging from across the globe. "Hmmm, it's just a lake", was the feeling among us children, and we went back to the hotel after an hour.
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  #422  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 10:46 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
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^ ohhhhh, to be young and jaded. you sound like you were an awesome kid!

i basically lived on those sandy shores just north of chicago (gilson beach in wilmette) every summer from memorial day to labor day for an entire childhood and all i would do is sit in the sand everyday and pine for something just a little bit better.

if only my parents had decided to live 6 blocks from a beach on LONG ISLAND instead of in Thrill-mette, Thrill-inois, my childhood would a have been so. much. better.

maybe i could have even been eaten by a shark! now that would have been pretty — exciting!



Oh most cheesy Pizza God, may my next life please be as cool as pico's, in Cheesus' name I pray.

Last edited by Steely Dan; Feb 6, 2018 at 11:03 PM.
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  #423  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 10:54 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by pico44 View Post
Bizarre. I grew up going to the beach on Long Island, and less occasionally, California, and remember my parents bringing us to the sandy shore just north of Chicago and we were all bored stiff. No waves. No sea creatures. No convoy of giant ocean freighters converging from across the globe. "Hmmm, it's just a lake", was the feeling among us children, and we went back to the hotel after an hour.
You and I both know this is BS. None of this silly story really happened
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  #424  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 11:13 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ ohhhhh, to be young and jaded. you sound like you were an awesome kid!

i basically lived on those sandy shores just north of chicago (gilson beach in wilmette) every summer from memorial day to labor day for an entire childhood and all i would do is sit in the sand everyday and pine for something just a little bit better.

if only my parents had decided to live 6 blocks from a beach on LONG ISLAND instead of in Thrill-mette, Thrill-inois, my childhood would a have been so. much. better.

maybe i could have even been eaten by a shark! now that would have been pretty — exciting!



Oh most cheesy Pizza God, may my next life please be as cool as pico's, in Cheesus' name I pray.
I think he decided to troll this thread with that fake anecdote because the ocean is fundamental to the identity of southern Californians. For anybody to suggest that you can pretty much experience close to the same thing in the Great Lakes leads to —-hurt, and of course that calls for a smack-down!
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  #425  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
I think he decided to troll this thread with that fake anecdote because the ocean is fundamental to the identity of southern Californians. For anybody to suggest that you can pretty much experience close to the same thing in the Great Lakes leads to —-hurt, and of course that calls for a smack-down!
pico ain't no southern californian.

he's originally from kansas city and currently lives in new york.

new york is FULL of kids from the midwest who now hate on their homeland.

native new yorkers don't hate on the midwest, they simply don't even bother to take notice of its existence (or really much of anything west of the hudson).
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  #426  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 11:19 PM
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Some of his story is a little dubious. For one, massive Lake Freighters traverse the Great Lakes. Some are the same length as Panamax ships. Just another thing that makes the Great Lakes feel ocean like.


Duluth Harbor 1s
by Greg Riekens, on Flickr


Frontenac
by Rick, on Flickr

They're also no stranger to waves. Ships similar to the ones above have sank.

Lake Superior
by Thomas, on Flickr
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  #427  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 11:23 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
pico ain't no southern californian.

he's originally from kansas city and currently lives in new york.

new york is FULL of kids from the midwest who now hate on their homeland.

native new yorkers don't hate on the midwest, they don't even bother to take notice of its existence.
Ahhh, so he's one of those Great Plains midwesterners turned "bicoastal" superstars! Wow, what a success sorry--you're not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy!
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  #428  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 11:25 PM
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Lake Winnebago is supposed to be relatively shallow(not in the sense that you can stand up in it or something, but rather that its not hundreds of feet deep either) which has an influence on its temps. I believe it also freezes up.

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just up in Castle Danger
Skeletor's summer cottage.

I can't believe that's a real place, apparently its on the highway going north of out of Duluth.

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You lose me a little bit here.

Though I guess it could depend on in which and where one is swimming in the world's oceans.

Agreed.

The overall scenery and atmosphere in the upper midwest might be better, but you can't possibly compare the beach to Florida.
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  #429  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 11:28 PM
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^ lake winnebago is super shallow, especially considering its size (215 sq. miles).

it has an average depth of only 15.5' and a maximum depth of only 21'.

that's one ridiculously flat and shallow lake bottom for something that covers over 200 sq. miles.

lake st. clair is also really, really shallow for its size (430 sq. miles). average depth: 11'. max depth: 27'.
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  #430  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 11:34 PM
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i don't care about what people think of great lakes beaches...and some are obviously far better than others. i dig the entire "lost coast" vibe in northern michigan and other places where you don't see another soul along the coastline, and the clean, refreshing feel of the water. obviously you can have the entire beach town thing, too, in western mi and other places. overall it's so much less annoying and more relaxed than a lot of other coastal locations. nothing like kayaking around with a little keg of oberon, finding a deserted beach...it feels elemental, de-cluttering in a way that i haven't really found in the same way in other places in north america. my mind always seems occupied in some way on the west coast.

it's sad that so many midwesterners really have no idea...but i'd prefer that they keep going to blazing gulf shores or maryland or whatever in july or august. all of those hilton head stickers...

Last edited by Centropolis; Feb 6, 2018 at 11:50 PM.
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  #431  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 11:48 PM
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a few of MY OWN photos:







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  #432  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 11:52 PM
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I agree about the no crocodiles or other dangerous creatures to contend with on the Great Lakes. People who don't think that there's just something powerful and awesome about the magnitude of these Lakes are just in denial for whatever reason.



The question is: How do you get to the other side?

A Blonde in Rochester called her blonde friend in Toronto and posed this same question.

The Toronto friend responded with a "duh, you are on the other side!".


Okay..groan I know.. carry on.
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  #433  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 12:38 AM
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Firstly the number of threatening/hazardous creatures in Midwestern freshwater is near zero. Instead of alligators, sharks, stinging jellies, etc, the worst we can serve up is bitey turtles and leeches, neither of which you will encounter unless you are wading around in mud. The river my cottage is on has an all sand and gravel bottom, the biggest beasts in that water are Sturgeon which grow up to 7 or 8 feet and couldn't harm you if they wanted to. The worst they could do is give your toes (maybe your whole foot) a good gumming.

The river is often in excess of 80 degree F in the summer and makes for excellent swimming. Most midwestern lakes are this way, many of them are crystal clear water. The only time lake and river temps drop in the summertime is if you get a torrential rain that cools them off by flooding them with cold rainwater runoff.

Then there's the natural beauty and fertility of it all. The river I'm located on is one of the best fisheries in the world and literally teaming with walleye, white bass, sturgeon, etc. It runs over a hundred miles and drains much of the North Woods of Wisconsin, well over 95% of the riverbank is natural and that approaches 100% the further north you go. To the South of my cabin the river also becomes 100% natural for many miles as it drains into a series of massive freshwater lakes. About 5 minutes downstream of me you will be in the middle of a marsh that you could mistake for the everglades with 8' reeds in all directions as far as you can see. This swamp is also know as one of the best birding spots in North America as it lies directly in the middle of the migratory bird flyway along Lake Michigan's West coast. The swamp is full of channels going to this landing or that fishing hole or some hillbilly bar half a mile down the canal that's an absolute riot every night of the week.

The river connects together multiple lakes that are suitable for speedboating and swimming and it's easily deep and wide enough to accommodate the largest yachts you see on the Great Lakes. The biggest annoyance in summer is actually the floatillas of 40+' cigarette boats and cabin cruisers that rip up and down the river at 50+ MPH like a racetrack. The poweryachts of course are going to one of dozens of waterfront bars and supper clubs to party. Each one of these bars has their own flair, some trashier than others, some with better food, etc. They all have killer views like the one I posted above and most have horseshoe pits or beach volleyball or their own private beach and swimming hole. You motor on up to the dock, tie up the boat, and belly up to the bar for a brandy old fashioned sweet while you wait for your perch or walleye fishfry that was just pulled out of the river a day or two before to be served.

You can enjoy the fishing, enjoy the boating, enjoy the swimming, whatever you want. Cruise up the river, grab a couple drinks at the bar and then slowly float with the current back down, then stop at a sandbar when you get too hot (there's many secret swimming holes too that you only know about if you know the back channels, oftentimes you are the only people out there) and take a dip. If you are up for it stop at one of the lakes and go water skiing or tubing. Oh and if you wipe out on the tube or faceplant on skis, you don't get a salty blast up your nostrils, but sweet refreshing freshwater. Your paper cut doesn't burn, your fish don't taste like ocean, you don't see weird creepy crawlies dead on the beach.

Then there's the cheese factory. It's a mile down the road and has been making cheese by hand since the 1870's. The same family for six or seven generations at this point. One of the last places in the United States where cheese is still hand made from beginning to end and you can roll in at 8AM and eat fresh curds right out of the vat. They are so fresh that they are still warm and squeak so loudly that they'll practically deafen you. When curds are that fresh, before they've been put in any sort of packaging, they even have a slight brine crust on all the edges which comes from the saltwater they were washed in crystallizing on them leaving an every so slightly crunchy crust that just adds a whole new level to the experience. That's all the brine I ever want to deal with.


Here's what a true slice of paradise looks like, screw Miami Beach or Santa Barbara:



That's Gill's Landing Wisconsin, a bar that's been at the intersection of the river and the railway since before there were even roads. The bar used to serve lumberjacks riding floats of logs down from the North Woods to the Fox Valley lumber and paper mills. The train would stop on the bridge and stock up the bar with booze and the lumberjacks would hop of their log floes and pop in for a beer or shot of whiskey. Still open as a bar today, but now it's yahoos on yachts or fishermen on boats.
Sounds very nice. Thanks for the descriptive account of summer leisure -- it no doubt sounds like a great place that I would like very much.

As someone who grew up on the Great Lakes and smaller lakes throughout the PA/NY/Ontario region, I have a tremendous appreciation for the activites you describe. My grandfather was a boatbuilder who built and delivered these boats (anyone who has spent time on the Lakes has more than likely seen his work)...








... and I was fortunate to accompany him and my father on maiden voyage deliveries of these vessels throughout the Great Lakes, down the Mississippi and up the Ohio to places like Louisville and Pittsburgh, and through the St. Lawrence and down the Atlantic Coast. All this to say, I grew up on freshwater from a very young age and certainly appreciate your love for freshwater bounty in all its forms.

But once I moved to Florida and to the Caribbean and to Brazil, I definitely gained quite a different perspective. I wish I could say that "yeah, swimming in the ocean in Cuba is okay, but 'it's not really pleasant compared to swimming in Midwestern freshwater'"... yet, I just could not seriously claim that after spending a single minute in the waters off Cayo Guillermo... or swimming between islands in the Costa Verde in Brazil... or even after snorkeling off Key Largo on a November day. To each his own, and if you're scared of sea life and are irritated by saltwater, then I guess I can understand your preference. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking that the majority of humans would likely prefer to swim in ocean waters given the choice.
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  #434  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 12:49 AM
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I agree about the no crocodiles or other dangerous creatures to contend with on the Great Lakes.
They're just in the other Great Lakes.
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  #435  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 12:54 AM
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Sounds very nice. Thanks for the descriptive account of summer leisure -- it no doubt sounds like a great place that I would like very much.

As someone who grew up on the Great Lakes and smaller lakes throughout the PA/NY/Ontario region, I have a tremendous appreciation for the activites you describe. My grandfather was a boatbuilder who built and delivered these boats (anyone who has spent time on the Lakes has more than likely seen his work)...








... and I was fortunate to accompany him and my father on maiden voyage deliveries of these vessels throughout the Great Lakes, down the Mississippi and up the Ohio to places like Louisville and Pittsburgh, and through the St. Lawrence and down the Atlantic Coast. All this to say, I grew up on freshwater from a very young age and certainly appreciate your love for freshwater bounty in all its forms.

But once I moved to Florida and to the Caribbean and to Brazil, I definitely gained quite a different perspective. I wish I could say that "yeah, swimming in the ocean in Cuba is okay, but 'it's not really pleasant compared to swimming in Midwestern freshwater'"... yet, I just could not seriously claim that after spending a single minute in the waters off Cayo Guillermo... or swimming between islands in the Costa Verde in Brazil... or even after snorkeling off Key Largo on a November day. To each his own, and if you're scared of sea life and are irritated by saltwater, then I guess I can understand your preference. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking that the majority of humans would likely prefer to swim in ocean waters given the choice.
nice story! as to your second point, i wouldn't advocate that anyone take sides in the matter. places sort of operate on different wavelengths at different times, as do people. sometimes these things fall in sync at special times...it’s just that it’s happened for me rather often on these lakes. i’m sure people have memories of it being cold and sucky or something.

i’ve recently returned from new zealand and unfortunately didnt experience tuning into a beach place because i was traveling so quickly (with an exception...wasnt really a beach) ...it was a funny low mountainside in the deep interior that it happened.
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  #436  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 1:02 AM
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But once I moved to Florida and to the Caribbean and to Brazil, I definitely gained quite a different perspective. I wish I could say that "yeah, swimming in the ocean in Cuba is okay, but 'it's not really pleasant compared to swimming in Midwestern freshwater'"... yet, I just could not seriously claim that after spending a single minute in the waters off Cayo Guillermo... or swimming between islands in the Costa Verde in Brazil... or even after snorkeling off Key Largo on a November day. To each his own, and if you're scared of sea life and are irritated by saltwater, then I guess I can understand your preference. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking that the majority of humans would likely prefer to swim in ocean waters given the choice.
"What's most important at the beach is that it has to be freshwater rather than saltwater, the rest is secondary" definitely sounds like a homer Midwesterner trying to convince himself...

I would say generally speaking, the water has to be clean and warm, no seaweed ideally, the weather has to be sunny and warm, and also the beach should be sandy (it's a well known drawback of the Eastern French Riviera beaches (Nice and points east), they're pebble beaches. In the Antibes area they're sandy.)

Saltwater makes it easier to float, which is a positive IMO. I recall swimming in Lake Huron at an Ontario beach and if I ever got anything in my mouth I would spit the water rather than swallow it anyway, "fresh" or not.

Waves are a bonus; I'm guessing most people like them (especially kids), but old people sometimes prefer it when it's calm.

I really really really don't think the main criterion on most people lists is "freshwater or saltwater?" when shopping for a beachside place to vacation at. Sorry, Michigan Homer (you know who you are).
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  #437  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 1:04 AM
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P.S. Jacksonville has both a better skyline AND 10000% better beaches than anywhere in the Midwest!
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  #438  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 1:07 AM
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P.S. Jacksonville has both a better skyline AND 10000% better beaches than anywhere in the Midwest!
And waaaayyyy better pizza.
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  #439  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 1:08 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
But once I moved to Florida and to the Caribbean and to Brazil, I definitely gained quite a different perspective. I wish I could say that "yeah, swimming in the ocean in Cuba is okay, but 'it's not really pleasant compared to swimming in Midwestern freshwater'"... yet, I just could not seriously claim that after spending a single minute in the waters off Cayo Guillermo... or swimming between islands in the Costa Verde in Brazil... or even after snorkeling off Key Largo on a November day. To each his own, and if you're scared of sea life and are irritated by saltwater, then I guess I can understand your preference. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking that the majority of humans would likely prefer to swim in ocean waters given the choice.
These are still just assumptions.

Truth is, I’m willing to bet that far more American leisure activity occurs in lakes than in oceans. People love Lakes! First of all, the water is actually drinkable, unlike seawater. Plus you really aren’t going to worry about sharks, whales, etc. it’s a great way to enjoy swimming, boating, sailing, jet skiing, cruising, etc.

Now if you want to surf or snorkel to see incredible wildlife, then of course the best place is out in the oceans. No debate about that.

But I’m not sure you can even defend your claim that humans would “prefer to swim in ocean waters”.
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  #440  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2018, 1:08 AM
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In fact, I thought it was an inferior experience, the salty water is torture to swim in and jet skiing — there, ocean water stings your eyes and if any sort of drop accidentally gets in your mouth it tastes disgusting. I also went in February and the water was pretty cold.
"Jetskiing in the ocean outside Miami in February" is apples to apples with skidooing on the frozen surface of your lakes in February. If you complain you find the former too cold for you, I'd strongly advise you don't attempt the latter dressed the same way.
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