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  #401  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Lol Crawford as usual...

Anyhow, I actually agree about swimming in the ocean, it's not really pleasant compared to swimming in Midwestern freshwater during the summer.
You lose me a little bit here.

Though I guess it could depend on in which and where one is swimming in the world's oceans.
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  #402  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 7:13 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
one has to wonder if crawford ever gets tired of being so full of — all of the time.

i hope no one was satisfied with where the goal posts are currently located because there's a textbook crawford goal post move coming in 3...... 2....... 1......
^ You do realize that he isn't actually arguing from a position of interest, but from a position of always trying to denigrate the midwest while bolstering his adopted east coast, don't you? However subtle, that tone comes through in every single discussion. That in mind, why do you even bother trying to engage him?
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  #403  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 7:21 PM
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If you don't stand up and callout his utter rubbish Crawford's BS on pretty much every thread.

You let guys like these off the hook.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting
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  #404  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 7:22 PM
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The annoying, pain-in-the —, know-it-all kid you grew up with in your neighborhood. He'd push it until everyone couldn't take it anymore, he'd get beat up, and he'd run home crying. Yet, he'd always come back the next day for more, and you'd all continue to let him play with you for some reason...
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  #405  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 7:29 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
That in mind, why do you even bother trying to engage him?
i suppose i get some kind of weird pleasure out of catching him in his lies.

i saw him using houghton lake as an example of an inland lake you can't see across and i was just like "no — way! i've actually been to houghton lake and saw land on the other side of it with my own freaking eyes!"

it was such a clear-cut example of crawford just making — up once again.

Last edited by Steely Dan; Feb 6, 2018 at 8:32 PM.
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  #406  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 7:36 PM
IrishIllini IrishIllini is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i suppose i get some kind of weird pleasure out of catching him in his lies.
Lol, that I get. I doubt more than a handful of people here take his post seriously. I typically don't even read them. Most of them are total head-scratchers and should only be addressed when newbies take them at face value.
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  #407  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i suppose i get some kind of weird pleasure out of catching him in his lies.
I think he gets a weird pleasure in that as well.
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  #408  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
i love how there is a town on the minnesota coast called "castle danger." really seems like the "lost coast" of the u.s. side of the great lakes. i've never been there, looks intriguing.
We were, literally, just up in Castle Danger at a cabin last month! It is GLORIOUS! Actually, I would say, as a native Northern Californian, that the North Shore of Lake Superior in Minnesota and Ontario is somewhat reminiscent of the Redwood Coast. Both are on a very large body of water with mountainous terrain nearby and both are relatively isolated from the rest of the state. Of course, nothing beats the Redwood Empire, IMO; but, for a "flyover state", Minnesota sure does have a lot of amazing.
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  #409  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 8:51 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
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How many other lakes are there out there that you really can not see the other side of? There is Lake Okeechobee. Most of the other truely large lakes tend to be more linear in shape so seeing from one shore to the other can be done despite their large volumes. Okeechobee is largely circular. You probably cannot see across the other giant Canadian lakes (Great Slave Lake, Great Bear Lake...etc) either. The Great Salt Lake is linear and ringed in Mountains so you can always see land on the other shore. That looks to be the case with Champlain as well.

Okeechobee:
https://www.google.com/maps/@26.8260549,...-pi-0-ya263.9653-ro0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352
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  #410  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
How many other lakes are there out there that you really can not see the other side of?
pontchartrain of course

mille lacs and red lake in mn are right on that cusp...leech lake feels gigantic, though if you squint on a clear day you can pretty much make out the tops of the trees on the far shore.

wikipedia.com
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  #411  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:09 PM
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^ but lake ponchartrain kinda is a part of the ocean, or at least brackish.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
How many other lakes are there out there that you really can not see the other side of? There is Lake Okeechobee. Most of the other truely large lakes tend to be more linear in shape so seeing from one shore to the other can be done despite their large volumes. Okeechobee is largely circular. You probably cannot see across the other giant Canadian lakes (Great Slave Lake, Great Bear Lake...etc) either. The Great Salt Lake is linear and ringed in Mountains so you can always see land on the other shore. That looks to be the case with Champlain as well.
Lake okeechobee might be the only one (other than the great lakes) in the lower 48.

like you said, you need a large expanse of non-linear water and really flat land surrounding the lake. lake okeechobee has both. all of the others that i can think of either lack the necessary open water distances or are surrounded by hills/mountains.
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  #412  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:13 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ but lake ponchartrain kinda is a part of the ocean, or at least brackish.





Lake okeechobee might be the only one (other than the great lakes) in the lower 48.

like you said, you need a large expanse of non-linear water and really flat land surrounding the lake. lake okeechobee has both. all of the others that i can think of either lack the necessary open water distances or are surrounded by hills/mountains.
Its looks like you can't see accross Pontchartrain either, but thats just from google maps.
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  #413  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ but lake ponchartrain kinda is a part of the ocean, or at least brackish.




Lake okeechobee might be the only one (other than the great lakes) in the lower 48.

like you said, you need a large expanse of non-linear water and really flat land surrounding the lake. lake okeechobee has both. all of the others that i can think of either lack the necessary open water distances or are surrounded by hills/mountains.
those largest lakes in minnesota are contenders. dont forget lake of the woods, too, the main body.

minnesota-visitor.com
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  #414  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:18 PM
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here's an angry lake of the woods:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.imagefinder.co
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  #415  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:20 PM
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more lake of the woods

http://www.campsitereports.com/
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  #416  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:24 PM
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^ yeah, good call on lake of the woods, it's a beast. i've only been there once, to a town called warroad, MN.

it sat at the end of a bay, so it didn't quite have the full great lakes "inland seas" effect there, but it looks like it has it at other places along the shore from those pics.

it's also home to an utterly INSANE number of islands (over 14,500!).
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  #417  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
How many other lakes are there out there that you really can not see the other side of? There is Lake Okeechobee. Most of the other truely large lakes tend to be more linear in shape so seeing from one shore to the other can be done despite their large volumes. Okeechobee is largely circular. You probably cannot see across the other giant Canadian lakes (Great Slave Lake, Great Bear Lake...etc) either. The Great Salt Lake is linear and ringed in Mountains so you can always see land on the other shore. That looks to be the case with Champlain as well.

Okeechobee:
https://www.google.com/maps/@26.8260549,...-pi-0-ya263.9653-ro0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352
Tons in Canada, even some of the smaller ones. Lake Simcoe, Like Nipigon, Athabasca, maybe even something like Reindeer Lake. Outside of North America and the big three in Africa, very few I think. Lake Ladoga, Onega, and certain angles of Baikal in Russia I imagine. Vanern and Vattern in Sweden. Maybe only Titicaca in South America.

Since this has gone completely off the rails into pictures of the lakes, I'll add this that I came across on reddit today.



A view from inside a freighter on Great Lakes. I find it awe-inspiring that you can be on the open lake, and potentially see no land on either side of you.
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  #418  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:39 PM
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is Jacksonville a lake?

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  #419  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 9:40 PM
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Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post



A view from inside a freighter on Great Lakes. I find it awe-inspiring that you can be on the open lake, and potentially see no land on either side of you.
I've experienced that from an ocean kayak on Lakes Erie and Huron, as well as on the Atlantic. It's humbiling and cool at first, then a bit unsettling when it's been hours and there is still no land in sight... and you realize that your own rowing is the only thing that will allow you to see land again anytime soon.
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  #420  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2018, 10:02 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
You lose me a little bit here.

Though I guess it could depend on in which and where one is swimming in the world's oceans.
Firstly the number of threatening/hazardous creatures in Midwestern freshwater is near zero. Instead of alligators, sharks, stinging jellies, etc, the worst we can serve up is bitey turtles and leeches, neither of which you will encounter unless you are wading around in mud. The river my cottage is on has an all sand and gravel bottom, the biggest beasts in that water are Sturgeon which grow up to 7 or 8 feet and couldn't harm you if they wanted to. The worst they could do is give your toes (maybe your whole foot) a good gumming.

The river is often in excess of 80 degree F in the summer and makes for excellent swimming. Most midwestern lakes are this way, many of them are crystal clear water. The only time lake and river temps drop in the summertime is if you get a torrential rain that cools them off by flooding them with cold rainwater runoff.

Then there's the natural beauty and fertility of it all. The river I'm located on is one of the best fisheries in the world and literally teaming with walleye, white bass, sturgeon, etc. It runs over a hundred miles and drains much of the North Woods of Wisconsin, well over 95% of the riverbank is natural and that approaches 100% the further north you go. To the South of my cabin the river also becomes 100% natural for many miles as it drains into a series of massive freshwater lakes. About 5 minutes downstream of me you will be in the middle of a marsh that you could mistake for the everglades with 8' reeds in all directions as far as you can see. This swamp is also know as one of the best birding spots in North America as it lies directly in the middle of the migratory bird flyway along Lake Michigan's West coast. The swamp is full of channels going to this landing or that fishing hole or some hillbilly bar half a mile down the canal that's an absolute riot every night of the week.

The river connects together multiple lakes that are suitable for speedboating and swimming and it's easily deep and wide enough to accommodate the largest yachts you see on the Great Lakes. The biggest annoyance in summer is actually the floatillas of 40+' cigarette boats and cabin cruisers that rip up and down the river at 50+ MPH like a racetrack. The poweryachts of course are going to one of dozens of waterfront bars and supper clubs to party. Each one of these bars has their own flair, some trashier than others, some with better food, etc. They all have killer views like the one I posted above and most have horseshoe pits or beach volleyball or their own private beach and swimming hole. You motor on up to the dock, tie up the boat, and belly up to the bar for a brandy old fashioned sweet while you wait for your perch or walleye fishfry that was just pulled out of the river a day or two before to be served.

You can enjoy the fishing, enjoy the boating, enjoy the swimming, whatever you want. Cruise up the river, grab a couple drinks at the bar and then slowly float with the current back down, then stop at a sandbar when you get too hot (there's many secret swimming holes too that you only know about if you know the back channels, oftentimes you are the only people out there) and take a dip. If you are up for it stop at one of the lakes and go water skiing or tubing. Oh and if you wipe out on the tube or faceplant on skis, you don't get a salty blast up your nostrils, but sweet refreshing freshwater. Your paper cut doesn't burn, your fish don't taste like ocean, you don't see weird creepy crawlies dead on the beach.

Then there's the cheese factory. It's a mile down the road and has been making cheese by hand since the 1870's. The same family for six or seven generations at this point. One of the last places in the United States where cheese is still hand made from beginning to end and you can roll in at 8AM and eat fresh curds right out of the vat. They are so fresh that they are still warm and squeak so loudly that they'll practically deafen you. When curds are that fresh, before they've been put in any sort of packaging, they even have a slight brine crust on all the edges which comes from the saltwater they were washed in crystallizing on them leaving an every so slightly crunchy crust that just adds a whole new level to the experience. That's all the brine I ever want to deal with.


Here's what a true slice of paradise looks like, screw Miami Beach or Santa Barbara:



That's Gill's Landing Wisconsin, a bar that's been at the intersection of the river and the railway since before there were even roads. The bar used to serve lumberjacks riding floats of logs down from the North Woods to the Fox Valley lumber and paper mills. The train would stop on the bridge and stock up the bar with booze and the lumberjacks would hop of their log floes and pop in for a beer or shot of whiskey. Still open as a bar today, but now it's yahoos on yachts or fishermen on boats.
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