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  #5481  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 10:36 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Damn. Guess the May/June opening is off now.
     
     
  #5482  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Damn. Guess the May/June opening is off now.
There is no evidence that this sinkhole has anything to do with LRT construction and it shouldn't affect construction as the work is deep underground.
     
     
  #5483  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Damn. Guess the May/June opening is off now.
Worst case scenario is Stage 2 construction will begin before stage 1 finishes.
     
     
  #5484  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 11:39 PM
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I've been away for a bit, so here are a bunch of delayed responses:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
The Trillium Line falls off schedule quite often.
The Trillium Line doesn't have a schedule during four train operation. As stated on the platform signage, trains come every 10-12 minutes. When two trains are in operation, then the 15 minute schedule operates, and trains follow it. Whatever you see that looks like an actual schedule for four train operation is just filler content generated so apps and the website have something roughly to show. Light Rail Operators are instructed to drive the trains as quickly as possible, not to adhere to any specific timing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
The Confederation Line will not have quite the issues as the Trillium Line but as with the Trillium Line, expect the schedule to be just a suggestion. Schedule boards at stations will be real time.

I am going to say that the single tracking with the Trillium Line is not a big issue as far as adherence to a schedule. The timing for train passing is down pat so the only big difference is the Ellwood Diamond.
Together, passing tracks and the Ellwood Diamond are what limit the frequency the Trillium Line can operate at. Because the back and forth nature of the trains overlaps, there is no recovery time in the schedule. Any impact to train operations, including an extra few seconds of platform dwell time, directly impacts the frequency of all four trains on the line. I have heard from LROs that they can tell if the crew is all full time staff, as the frequency will be greater than when part-time staff are also driving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
The stickers are still up. And even if it's permitted, it is still awkward and even dangerous, especiallly given the truly terrible driving habits of most OC Transpo bus operators.
The stickers indicate that standing in the stairwell or upper deck is not permitted. Going up or down the stairs is permitted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
There should be, but it's hard to make it work with the single track passing track set up (a lot harder than Gladstone will be). In the interest of keeping the line reliable, IMO, Walkley station should be deferred until the route is double tracked. It already has Transitway service so it shouldn't sting too hard.
Walkley being single track will have little impact on operations, while double-tracking Gladstone can potentially improve operations. The northern portion of the line is currently slower than the southern portion of the line, as the passing track is shorter, and not well located. Gladstone will allow the southbound train to be waiting when the Northbound train arrives. At Walkley, the northbound train will leave when the southbound train is on the siding, and the southbound train will only be delayed by a few seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCCheetos View Post
I disagree with that. Most of the reason that trains wait so long at Greenboro is because (I think, this is just based off of observational evidence) that the train there can only depart once the train travelling the other direction departs Confederation. Since the passing track is placed closer to Confederation, that train just has to wait around for roughly a minute while the train from Greenboro travels to the passing track. Adding the station at Walkley could mean that a train would need to spend less time waiting at Greenboro since it could spend that time at Walkley instead.

That being said, double tracking would be better, obviously, and I'm surprised they wouldn't double track that section of the line. It would seem to be easier along there than in the rock ditch where Gladstone is..
You're pretty much deduced how the line works, though maybe not why. You are correct that when the southbound train leaves Confederation, the driver indicates so over the radio, and the northbound train then leaves Greenboro. The issue is that the signals have a 30 second timer in them. When the train pulls into the siding, a 30 second countdown begins, and then the opposite direction gets a clear signal. The system as a whole runs most effectively when the Carleton bound train gets to the siding after the Greenboro bound train, and the signal timer has already timed out, as then the train can then carry its speed through the siding. The southbound train really has nowhere better to be, since it's heading to wait at Greenboro anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
Although in a multi billion dollar project, it does seem strange that they wanted to save money by choosing a design with more white paint. While I'm sure it is cheaper, I can't see how it could make much of a difference in the budget. Reminds me of this old Dilbert cartoon about silly cost savings:
Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
What makes you think it was to save money?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
It was actually written somewhere about "easy maintenance"... can't find the reference off hand though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caveat.doctor View Post
I think that came from one of the slides:

Besides the OC Transpo "curve" being dated, it's already being replaced by the red O as the branding everywhere else. Don't see why we're spending more effort to add the old brand when it's going to have to be taken off and replaced anyway.
I recall from the documents given to council at the time that the white colour scheme was being driver by RTG, as they would be the ones maintaining it long-term. They also wanted the colour scheme early on in the process, before the "Big Red O" design was created. OC has mentioned that they plan on keeping the maple leaf as the vehicle livery, so while the swoosh is now out of date, I don't know how the new "O" would work with the maple leaf that seems to hold up as fairly popular.
     
     
  #5485  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 12:15 AM
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I have this weird feeling that something is going to happen to the Hudsons Bay sometime. The rift must go right under the building, and if you look at the way the Mama Grazzi's is sunk and tilted one way, it's directly in line with the sinkhole a block over.
     
     
  #5486  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 12:33 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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No doubt record rainfall has contributed to the latest sinkhole but this has to be a concern with LRT right underneath and being adjacent to our most important retail in the city. In all my life, I don't remember even hearing about a previous sinkhole on Rideau Street and now we have had two in 18 months.
     
     
  #5487  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 2:46 AM
mykl mykl is offline
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I think everyone needs to realize how quickly the original sinkhole was filled in. Unless they tamped it down like crazy, there would absolutely be leeway for some soil to shift and settle. Especially with all the rain. It's also stated that it occurred above a sewer line, so perhaps there was a break in the pipe.

I also don't know why everyone (especially in article comments) thinks this tiny hole will affect the safety in the tunnel much farther down, encased in rebar and concrete.
     
     
  #5488  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 2:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Let me see if I understand your idea. You want the city to divert Nicholas northbound onto Waller just south of Laurier and then remove the existing northbound lanes.

They would need to keep a southbound lane on Waller to maintain access to the buildings on it south of Laurier and allow buses to go from Mackenzie King to Laurier, though it could end at Nicholas.

The only issue I see is vehicles from the buildings on the southern Waller stub would have difficulty turning onto Waller northbound if all of Nicholas's traffic was diverted onto it (the underground parking entrance for 50 Laurier is there). There are ways that can be resolved though.

This is the kind of thing I was thinking of... really just a return to what it looked like in the 1970's. But to be able to recover enough land to be useful, there would have to be a way to get rid of that tight curve from Mackenzie King bridge down to Nicholas. Maybe force traffic to make 3 lefts instead of one tight right (Waller > Daly > Nicholas). Otherwise just take Laurier if your destination is the Queensway. Not ideal, I know.

     
     
  #5489  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 10:28 AM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mykl View Post
I think everyone needs to realize how quickly the original sinkhole was filled in. Unless they tamped it down like crazy, there would absolutely be leeway for some soil to shift and settle. Especially with all the rain. It's also stated that it occurred above a sewer line, so perhaps there was a break in the pipe.

I also don't know why everyone (especially in article comments) thinks this tiny hole will affect the safety in the tunnel much farther down, encased in rebar and concrete.
Right now the tunnel would actually be the safest place to be. It is down in the bedrock. The surface is a different story. There may be potential of more settling and minor sinkholes once the trains start rumbling through the tunnel below. However, the reality is that Rideau street apparently was always a sink hole waiting to happen, we just didn't know how bad it was until we started tunneling through the area. The silver lining is we're aware of the shaky ground it's on now and can take action.
     
     
  #5490  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
Right now the tunnel would actually be the safest place to be. It is down in the bedrock.
While most of the tunnel is in bedrock it isn't under Rideau as there is a deep crevasse filled with sand that they had to tunnel through. That is why the first sinkhole happened in the first place (they sand above bore hole wasn't sufficiently stabilized). Hind sight being 20/20, they probably should have cut and covered Rideau and bored the rest of the tunnel, but they were trying to avoid closing down Rideau.

As mykl said, the tunnel will be safe though as it is a reinforced concrete tube (a very strong structural shape).
     
     
  #5491  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
This is the kind of thing I was thinking of... really just a return to what it looked like in the 1970's. But to be able to recover enough land to be useful, there would have to be a way to get rid of that tight curve from Mackenzie King bridge down to Nicholas. Maybe force traffic to make 3 lefts instead of one tight right (Waller > Daly > Nicholas). Otherwise just take Laurier if your destination is the Queensway. Not ideal, I know.
The biggest problems I see with your plan are:
  1. How will east bound buses get from Mackenzie King to Laurier?
  2. Getting in and out of the parking garage for 50 Laurier (on Waller south of Laurier as seen here) will be difficult (dangerous?).

The first issue could be resolved by having a single southbound lane between McKenzie King and Laurier. Not sure what could be done about the second though.
     
     
  #5492  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 1:06 PM
AndyMEng AndyMEng is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
The biggest problems I see with your plan are:
  1. How will east bound buses get from Mackenzie King to Laurier?
  2. Getting in and out of the parking garage for 50 Laurier (on Waller south of Laurier as seen here) will be difficult (dangerous?).

The first issue could be resolved by having a single southbound lane between McKenzie King and Laurier. Not sure what could be done about the second though.
1. The left-left-left scenario from MK around Daly OR if we're keeping the MK loop ramp, just have a left hand turn lane on Nicholas. Personally I think the loop should go, but first we'll need a truck tunnel.
2. 50 Laurier is easy. Left hand turn lane around the point of the pie from Nicholas to Waller (as Rocketphish has drawn). That lane would be dedicated to left hand turners from the Waller split all the way to Laurier. (I'm thinking island barricade to protect from speeding cars coming north, then dashed line to allow a weave. That way people can turn left into 50 Laurier or the remaining heritage houses, even if they're coming north on waller.)
     
     
  #5493  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 1:20 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyMEng View Post
1. The left-left-left scenario from MK around Daly OR if we're keeping the MK loop ramp, just have a left hand turn lane on Nicholas. Personally I think the loop should go, but first we'll need a truck tunnel.
2. 50 Laurier is easy. Left hand turn lane around the point of the pie from Nicholas to Waller (as Rocketphish has drawn). That lane would be dedicated to left hand turners from the Waller split all the way to Laurier. (I'm thinking island barricade to protect from speeding cars coming north, then dashed line to allow a weave. That way people can turn left into 50 Laurier or the remaining heritage houses, even if they're coming north on waller.)
I'm pretty sure based on the new OC Transpo routings that they will be changing Waller between Mackenzie King and Laurier to one-way transit only southbound, and removing the northbound lanes. Buses will loop clockwise around the Desmarais building. This really simplifies the intersection of Mackenzie King and Waller (no westbound movement), and also the intersection of Waller and Laurier (no northbound through or eastbound left).
     
     
  #5494  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 1:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multi-modal View Post
I'm pretty sure based on the new OC Transpo routings that they will be changing Waller between Mackenzie King and Laurier to one-way transit only southbound, and removing the northbound lanes. Buses will loop clockwise around the Desmarais building. This really simplifies the intersection of Mackenzie King and Waller (no westbound movement), and also the intersection of Waller and Laurier (no northbound through or eastbound left).
But rocketphish's proposal is to make Waller Northbound only.
     
     
  #5495  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 1:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyMEng View Post
1. The left-left-left scenario from MK around Daly
Having buses make 3 left turns will do wonders for their schedule.

Quote:
OR if we're keeping the MK loop ramp, just have a left hand turn lane on Nicholas.
That is an awfully tight turn for a bus with passengers to make.

Quote:
2. 50 Laurier is easy. Left hand turn lane around the point of the pie from Nicholas to Waller (as Rocketphish has drawn). That lane would be dedicated to left hand turners from the Waller split all the way to Laurier. (I'm thinking island barricade to protect from speeding cars coming north, then dashed line to allow a weave. That way people can turn left into 50 Laurier or the remaining heritage houses, even if they're coming north on waller.)
But they will be competing with southbound traffic that wants to turn around and go north. The garage entrance will only be about 20m from the turn, so not a lot of room to merge or see traffic coming around the corner. The only saving grace is it will be a tight turn, so traffic making the turn should be slow.

Students getting access to Odell House (180 Waller) by foot could be fun with it being in the middle of a major highway.
     
     
  #5496  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 1:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
But rocketphish's proposal is to make Waller Northbound only.
I was just stating how I think the situation will improve slightly under the City's current vision. But Rocketphish's proposal is interesting. I wonder if there would be enough space at Waller and Mackenzie King to have 2 NB lanes, a NBL lane, and a SB bus lane. Plus, how would eastbound STO buses who are using Laurier as a terminus loop around? Would they have to use Laurier? *Edit, I saw my question was already answered: counterclockwise look using Nicholas, Laurier & Waller.
     
     
  #5497  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2017, 1:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
I recall from the documents given to council at the time that the white colour scheme was being driver by RTG, as they would be the ones maintaining it long-term. They also wanted the colour scheme early on in the process, before the "Big Red O" design was created. OC has mentioned that they plan on keeping the maple leaf as the vehicle livery, so while the swoosh is now out of date, I don't know how the new "O" would work with the maple leaf that seems to hold up as fairly popular.
Thanks for the insight. The simplest solution would be to just not apply the "swoosh" - save money and effort (both on applying the "swoosh", and then taking it off because it's now not part of the brand), and be consistent with the buses.
     
     
  #5498  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2017, 6:22 AM
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  #5499  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2017, 6:25 AM
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  #5500  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2017, 6:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Hybrid247 View Post
These pictures are making me salivate. I can't wait to get inside one of those trains.
     
     
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