Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[caveat.doctor]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That's just an incomplete train. Part of the Maple Leaf is also missing. Here are a few complete train;




https://twitter.com/OC_Transpo

I'm also not a fan of the swoosh, but it looks better than the rendering and probably won't be too visible when the trains are at the platforms.

Well, that's unfortunate - spending money and putting in more effort to make the new trains look not just worse, but to follow a now-outdated branding scheme. Would have made more sense to follow the "red O" style consistently throughout OC Transpo.

[lrt's friend]

Having plain white sides make the trains look like something is missing. I don't have a strong opinion on the planned design knowing that it is far too late to change it.

[J.OT13]

Never even gave us users a chance to give our opinion.

[Truenorth00]

I am going to guess that at sometime they'll start doing advert wraps and that'll remove the blandness.

[BlackRedGold]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That's compared to Orleansians who worked downtown at the DND or Vanier at the RCMP and are now forced to work west or south.

There's a sector organically growing in a suburban area and government departments moved to the boonies to "help the economy" (doesn't matter, because your in the same City) or buy votes.

I believe DND and the RCMP moved to the suburbs because of the affordable prices of the former tech campuses. It was a cost saving move, not to help the economy or buy votes. They got the locations for pennies on the dollar because there weren't (m)any other organizations in Ottawa who could make use of them.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold

I believe DND and the RCMP moved to the suburbs because of the affordable prices of the former tech campuses. It was a cost saving move, not to help the economy or buy votes. They got the locations for pennies on the dollar because there weren't (m)any other organizations in Ottawa who could make use of them.

Also consolidation. Am military. The original idea as explained to me was to go from ~20 buildings throughout the NCR to basically 5-6 "campuses". And I for one am all for it. Productivity was terrible with that distribution. Each campus has a higher concentration of staff, along with a more specific mission/theme.

Yes, a lot of military personnel would buy in Orleans. So initially there will be some displacement. But give it about 5 years and a few posting cycles and the incoming folks will buy closer to work.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

There should be, but it's hard to make it work with the single track passing track set up (a lot harder than Gladstone will be). In the interest of keeping the line reliable, IMO, Walkley station should be deferred until the route is double tracked. It already has Transitway service so it shouldn't sting too hard.

I disagree with that. Most of the reason that trains wait so long at Greenboro is because (I think, this is just based off of observational evidence) that the train there can only depart once the train travelling the other direction departs Confederation. Since the passing track is placed closer to Confederation, that train just has to wait around for roughly a minute while the train from Greenboro travels to the passing track. Adding the station at Walkley could mean that a train would need to spend less time waiting at Greenboro since it could spend that time at Walkley instead.

That being said, double tracking would be better, obviously, and I'm surprised they wouldn't double track that section of the line. It would seem to be easier along there than in the rock ditch where Gladstone is..

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I disagree with that. Most of the reason that trains wait so long at Greenboro is because (I think, this is just based off of observational evidence) that the train there can only depart once the train travelling the other direction departs Confederation. Since the passing track is placed closer to Confederation, that train just has to wait around for roughly a minute while the train from Greenboro travels to the passing track. Adding the station at Walkley could mean that a train would need to spend less time waiting at Greenboro since it could spend that time at Walkley instead.

That being said, double tracking would be better, obviously, and I'm surprised they wouldn't double track that section of the line. It would seem to be easier along there than in the rock ditch where Gladstone is..

The dwell time at Greenboro will be further reduced with Phase 2 because the trains will need to reach South Keys Station in order to get to the next passing track. This means that the four trains that now run between Greenboro and Bayview will need to run between South Keys and Bayview with Phase 2.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

With DND, the federal government is in the unique position of basically single-handedly controlling transit ridership levels with parking policy. If parking is expensive and its availability is restricted, transit ridership will have to go up, because there's no alternative parking locations in the area.

With the new CSEC headquarters, the government tried to incentive use of Blair station by deliberately building a shortage of parking spaces (IIRC the number of parking spaces there is only about half of the total number of employees), however this backfired because many just started parking illegally in surrounding areas, like on residential streets in Carson Grove or in commercial areas, often playing musical cars to do it. The Booth Street Complex has a similar problem.

With DND, however, there's nowhere else to park because it's in the middle of nowhere. If the government only has enough parking spaces for half the employees and charges $150 a month for the spots, then transit ridership will have to go up.

IMO, once Phase 2 is complete the government absolutely should do this.



Employee parking for the labs at the Central Experimental Farm (where I work) is about $70 a month.

Why should DND inconvenience it's employees in order to encourage/force them to take transit? Granted most people who work there have no choice but there are still civilians who long term will choose other departments over DND if forced to commute to the suburbs often with 2 transfers and most organizations don't want their employees to waste time commuting if it can be avoided. Some 10 minute drives might turn into 40 minute+ bus train shuttle trips.

The current $40 seems fair given the location. I can't see a private sector employer charging more than that in this area.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Having plain white sides make the trains look like something is missing. I don't have a strong opinion on the planned design knowing that it is far too late to change it.

I tend to agree. It could be worse and they could have painted them orange like Vancouver's SeaBus was for many years (the NDP was in power at the time).



In the end it is just paint and not worth stressing over.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I tend to agree. It could be worse and they could have painted them orange like Vancouver's SeaBus was for many years (the NDP was in power at the time).


In the end it is just paint and not worth stressing over.

Although in a multi billion dollar project, it does seem strange that they wanted to save money by choosing a design with more white paint. While I'm sure it is cheaper, I can't see how it could make much of a difference in the budget. Reminds me of this old Dilbert cartoon about silly cost savings:

http://dilbert.com/strip/1997-04-20

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Although in a multi billion dollar project, it does seem strange that they wanted to save money by choosing a design with more white paint. While I'm sure it is cheaper, I can't see how it could make much of a difference in the budget.

What makes you think it was to save money?

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by roger1818

What makes you think it was to save money?

It was actually written somewhere about "easy maintenance"... can't find the reference off hand though.

[Uhuniau]

I'm struggling to find a problem with the LRT cars' livery.

[roger1818]

Does anyone know what the plans are for plowing the tracks? I know the trains can largely self plow while in operation, but if there is a large dump of snow (especially overnight when the trains aren't running), they would likely need some snow clearing equipment (and maybe snow removal). I haven't seen any information (or photos) of that. They may also need something to deice the wires in an ice storm.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold

I believe DND and the RCMP moved to the suburbs because of the affordable prices of the former tech campuses. It was a cost saving move, not to help the economy or buy votes. They got the locations for pennies on the dollar because there weren't (m)any other organizations in Ottawa who could make use of them.

There are no cost-saving measures left when you need to spend hundreds of millions to fit-up the offices. DND spent over $800M on "fit-ups" at the Carling Campus alone. Plus all the costs related to seeping/proofing the building out of fear of the whole Chinese espionage stuff from the Nortel days.

Should have built new to DND specs from the beginning in the east or near-east end where the vast majority of DND employees and military personnel live(d).

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

NDHQ doesn't charge for parking?

I think the policy is market rates so suburban rates are free or nearly free.

NDHQ doesnt have parking to charge for. The parking you see at ground level is mostly for the MP unit and the exceptionally high ranking.

Originally Posted by hwy418

There are no cost-saving measures left when you need to spend hundreds of millions to fit-up the offices. DND spent over $800M on "fit-ups" at the Carling Campus alone. Plus all the costs related to seeping/proofing the building out of fear of the whole Chinese espionage stuff from the Nortel days.

Should have built new to DND specs from the beginning in the east or near-east end where the vast majority of DND employees and military personnel live(d).

The cost savings is not immediate, it is over the course of a decade. And the refit is still cheaper than the lease of current buildings combined over the same period. Building new would have cost exponentially more than $800M.

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

Parking at DND facilities matches market rates (http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policie...ders-directives-1000/1004-1.page#pcf-dse). When I was working at the old NDMC near the General Hospital, for example, it was about $20/week. I don't park at Carling, but it's about $40/month if I remember the move information.

Perhaps in the NCR, excluding Leitrim. No base I have ever been to, including Esquimalt and Halifax, charge for parking. The trick is being able to FIND parking in those cases.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Why should DND inconvenience it's employees in order to encourage/force them to take transit? Granted most people who work there have no choice but there are still civilians who long term will choose other departments over DND if forced to commute to the suburbs often with 2 transfers and most organizations don't want their employees to waste time commuting if it can be avoided. Some 10 minute drives might turn into 40 minute+ bus train shuttle trips.

The current $40 seems fair given the location. I can't see a private sector employer charging more than that in this area.

DND isnt inconveniencing its employees. It was the choice of the employee to purchase in say Orleans, therefore it is the fault of the employee that they are on the opposite end of town. The plan to relocate has been in place for well over a decade, which means anybody living in Orleans now really has no excuse. And civilian employees at DND will move with the department. If you understood their compensation package and work schedule, you to would do anything to keep the job. Generally though it is not the employers responsibility to reduce commute times or even care where an employee lives.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Why should DND inconvenience it's employees in order to encourage/force them to take transit? Granted most people who work there have no choice but there are still civilians who long term will choose other departments over DND if forced to commute to the suburbs often with 2 transfers and most organizations don't want their employees to waste time commuting if it can be avoided. Some 10 minute drives might turn into 40 minute+ bus train shuttle trips.

The current $40 seems fair given the location. I can't see a private sector employer charging more than that in this area.

Most private sector employers charge nothing in the suburbs for parking. And it can be a lot more than 10 minute versus 40 minutes. In my case, it is 10 minutes versus 50 to 60 minutes.

It is pretty short thinking to inconvenience your employees to the degree that they will choose to work elsewhere because of the parking versus transit issue.

As I said, two transfers eliminates the majority of potential riders. I am sure there are studies out there that prove this regardless of what city we are talking about. This is why so many cities around the world interline rail lines to contain the number of transfers to a minimum.

[Vixx]

The primarily white coat of the trains don't bother me. I see peoples arguments that it looks "empty" but in all honesty it looks fine. Could they have done a bit more of a unique design? Definitely, but compared to a lot of other trains in the country, it looks good.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Vixx

The primarily white coat of the trains don't bother me. I see peoples arguments that it looks "empty" but in all honesty it looks fine. Could they have done a bit more of a unique design? Definitely, but compared to a lot of other trains in the country, it looks good.

One of the advantages of the mostly-white livery? It doesn't "date" as quickly. The 1980s Vancouver SkyTrain livery looked tacky within months.