Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[1overcosc]

With DND, the federal government is in the unique position of basically single-handedly controlling transit ridership levels with parking policy. If parking is expensive and its availability is restricted, transit ridership will have to go up, because there's no alternative parking locations in the area.

With the new CSEC headquarters, the government tried to incentive use of Blair station by deliberately building a shortage of parking spaces (IIRC the number of parking spaces there is only about half of the total number of employees), however this backfired because many just started parking illegally in surrounding areas, like on residential streets in Carson Grove or in commercial areas, often playing musical cars to do it. The Booth Street Complex has a similar problem.

With DND, however, there's nowhere else to park because it's in the middle of nowhere. If the government only has enough parking spaces for half the employees and charges $150 a month for the spots, then transit ridership will have to go up.

IMO, once Phase 2 is complete the government absolutely should do this.

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd be surprised if it's less than 50 bucks a month in any of the developed suburban areas where there are other private sector offices nearby, or hospitals, etc.

If that counts as "nearly free".

Employee parking for the labs at the Central Experimental Farm (where I work) is about $70 a month.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The Confederation Line will not have quite the issues as the Trillium Line but as with the Trillium Line, expect the schedule to be just a suggestion. Schedule boards at stations will be real time.

I am going to say that the single tracking with the Trillium Line is not a big issue as far as adherence to a schedule. The timing for train passing is down pat so the only big difference is the Ellwood Diamond.

The question of ridership to suburban employment will indeed be based on time competitiveness. Frequent stopping will be one issue but transfers is the deal breaker for most people. If you have to even occasionally wait for a transfer for 15 or more minutes, most people will look for alternatives if they can afford it and if parking is available and not too expensive. Furthermore, with the opening of Phase 2, LRT will not be any faster than the buses that they replaced.

I know some people who commute regularly on the Trillium line at my job and this is what they say as well.

It goes to show that grade separating the VIA crossing is really the most important priority they should be having. If they got that done, and avoided building Walkley station, that could get the Trillium line to a consistent 10 minute frequency. (Gladstone station isn't as big of a deal because the Phase 2 plan includes double tracking the entire section from Bayview to halfway between Gladstone and Carling which offsets the penalty of stopping there).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

With DND, the federal government is in the unique position of basically single-handedly controlling transit ridership levels with parking policy. If parking is expensive and its availability is restricted, transit ridership will have to go up, because there's no alternative parking locations in the area.

With the new CSEC headquarters, the government tried to incentive use of Blair station by deliberately building a shortage of parking spaces (IIRC the number of parking spaces there is only about half of the total number of employees), however this backfired because many just started parking illegally in surrounding areas, like on residential streets in Carson Grove or in commercial areas, often playing musical cars to do it. The Booth Street Complex has a similar problem.

With DND, however, there's nowhere else to park because it's in the middle of nowhere. If the government only has enough parking spaces for half the employees and charges $150 a month for the spots, then transit ridership will have to go up.

IMO, once Phase 2 is complete the government absolutely should do this.



Employee parking for the labs at the Central Experimental Farm (where I work) is about $70 a month.

Friends of mine who work at Library and Archives here in Gatineau near Maloney pay about that as well.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Catenary

It should be noted that the ban on using the stairs while the bus is moving was removed shortly after the double deckers were significantly introduced in 2013.

The stickers are still up. And even if it's permitted, it is still awkward and even dangerous, especiallly given the truly terrible driving habits of most OC Transpo bus operators.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Two transfers can be fine IF the wait time is small (either by having frequent, reliable service or by timing the transfers between routes appropriately).

For example, after stage 2, commuting to the DND Carling campus will require two transfers for many (bus to LRT and LRT to Bus). From what I have read, the LRT to Moodie will run at a maximum frequency of every 9 minutes (only 1 in 3 trains will go there in peak periods). If in the morning the shuttle bus to DND is scheduled to depart a couple minutes after the train arrives, the transfer will be quite painless. Similarly in the evening, if the shuttle bus from DND is scheduled to arrive a few minutes before the LRT departs, it will once again be a painless transfer.

OC Transpo does not have a good record of late running buses on any kind of schedule on dedicated transitways, let alone in mixed traffic, even on low-traffic roads and outside peak.

The "well-timed transfer" is a fiction, and will continue to be so.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I know some people who commute regularly on the Trillium line at my job and this is what they say as well.

It goes to show that grade separating the VIA crossing is really the most important priority they should be having. If they got that done, and avoided building Walkley station, that could get the Trillium line to a consistent 10 minute frequency. (Gladstone station isn't as big of a deal because the Phase 2 plan includes double tracking the entire section from Bayview to halfway between Gladstone and Carling which offsets the penalty of stopping there).

Why shouldn't there be a Walkley station?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Why shouldn't there be a Walkley station?

There should be, but it's hard to make it work with the single track passing track set up (a lot harder than Gladstone will be). In the interest of keeping the line reliable, IMO, Walkley station should be deferred until the route is double tracked. It already has Transitway service so it shouldn't sting too hard.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That is called ballastless track. As OCCheetos said, the track is bolted directly to a solid concrete base rather then separate ties (that need to be held in place with ballast). Ballastless track is best when you have a solid rock surface to attach the base to (though it can be used elsewhere by pouring a thicker slab of concrete). As OCCheetos suggested, ballastless track causes more vibrations and noise, though measures can be taken to mitigate that. Drainage is another factor. On a solid rock surface, there is no natural drainage anyway, so having a solid concrete base doesn't change anything, but on a porous surface, ballast will take advantage of its natural drainage properties.

Wikipedia has an interesting article on Ballastless Track.

The concrete that you see in the picture is actually the top of a giant storm sewer box culvert that was installed when the Transitway was built in the early 80s. Direct fixation track was installed there to not add any additional weight on the structure where it is shallow. Only partial rehabilitation of the storm sewer was undertaken as part of the guideway work. As the old Transitway (and now guideway) profile climbs out of the trench the storm sewer grade is maintained, and there is greater depth available between the top of the sewer and the guideway so ballast can be used.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

There should be, but it's hard to make it work with the single track passing track set up (a lot harder than Gladstone will be). In the interest of keeping the line reliable, IMO, Walkley station should be deferred until the route is double tracked. It already has Transitway service so it shouldn't sting too hard.

It has stung for me. Basically, trying to get from Walkley to the Civic Hospital is very difficult without a Walkely Station. On the occasions when I have done it, I always had to drive to Greenboro, which makes transit almost pointless. The only reason why this was even acceptable to me was because it took me halfway home on my return trip (I was not returning to Walkley).

Based on your statement, how long do we have to wait until Walkley Station is built? It was originally supposed to open in 2009. Now it is 2021. There is no plans for double tracking. So 2030 something, 2040 something or what? This is a generational delay, which is not reasonable. We already know that the city's plan is designed to indefinitely delay double tracking.

As it stands, because of the design of bus routes, there is zero direct connectivity to the Trillium Line east of Bank and north of Greenboro until you almost reach downtown.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It has stung for me. Basically, trying to get from Walkley to the Civic Hospital is very difficult without a Walkely Station. On the occasions when I have done it, I always had to drive to Greenboro, which makes transit almost pointless. The only reason why this was even acceptable to me was because it took me halfway home on my return trip (I was not returning to Walkley).

Based on your statement, how long do we have to wait until Walkley Station is built? It was originally supposed to open in 2009. Now it is 2021. There is no plans for double tracking. So 2030 something, 2040 something or what? This is a generational delay, which is not reasonable. We already know that the city's plan is designed to indefinitely delay double tracking.

As it stands, because of the design of bus routes, there is zero direct connectivity to the Trillium Line east of Bank and north of Greenboro until you almost reach downtown.

As a resident of this area, it stings for me too. In fact, I would use the O-Train way more if Walkley existed. I'm sure they accounted for this station in how they planned passing tracks in Phase 2, though it was probably "what's the least amount of track we need to double to maintain a 12 minute frequency if absolutely nothing goes even the slightest bit wrong"

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The stickers are still up. And even if it's permitted, it is still awkward and even dangerous, especiallly given the truly terrible driving habits of most OC Transpo bus operators.

I think the ban exists, it's just no longer enforced. It's just your fault now if you fall because they have stickers that tell you not to.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It has stung for me. Basically, trying to get from Walkley to the Civic Hospital is very difficult without a Walkely Station. On the occasions when I have done it, I always had to drive to Greenboro, which makes transit almost pointless. The only reason why this was even acceptable to me was because it took me halfway home on my return trip (I was not returning to Walkley).

Isn't it a 2 minute bus ride from Walkley to Greenboro and a 12 minute train ride from Greenboro to Carling?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

This is why trying to use the LRT as long-distance transportation makes little sense. Political expediency took precedence over any practical considerations.

That's why spreading jobs around in the burbs makes little sense. It is easier to build a transportation system around a central employment hub than having to try moving people around all over town. But decentralizing employment to win a few votes here and there is a political move that will not die anytime soon.

Kanata is a different story, because the area was built in conjunction with the high-tech sector for the most part. But moving existing jobs from one end of the city to the other will inevitably screw a lot of people over.

[J.OT13]

Progress uOttawa tunnel portal;



and Blair;






https://twitter.com/OC_Transpo

[roger1818]

delete

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Isn't it a 2 minute bus ride from Walkley to Greenboro and a 12 minute train ride from Greenboro to Carling?

My trip starts east of Bank so no. The buses on Walkley Road go to Billings Bridge not Greenboro.

[caveat.doctor]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd be surprised if it's less than 50 bucks a month in any of the developed suburban areas where there are other private sector offices nearby, or hospitals, etc.

If that counts as "nearly free".

Parking at DND facilities matches market rates (http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policie...ders-directives-1000/1004-1.page#pcf-dse). When I was working at the old NDMC near the General Hospital, for example, it was about $20/week. I don't park at Carling, but it's about $40/month if I remember the move information.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

https://twitter.com/OC_Transpo

Glad to see the “swoosh” is gone - it was looking pretty dated, like the logo of an early-2000s start-up. Would’ve liked to have seen something matching the “red O” (or 3/4 of an O) design on the new bus stops and upcoming LRT signs, but plain is good and professional.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That's why spreading jobs around in the burbs makes little sense. It is easier to build a transportation system around a central employment hub than having to try moving people around all over town. But decentralizing employment to win a few votes here and there is a political move that will not die anytime soon.

Kanata is a different story, because the area was built in conjunction with the high-tech sector for the most part. But moving existing jobs from one end of the city to the other will inevitably screw a lot of people over.

I don't agree about Kanata. How accessible is the business park to other parts of the city? It is a terrible commute just like CTC for people in the east half of the city. I know somebody who struggled with that commute that often is worse than CTC because it falls at rush hour every day. The Kanata Business Park was a kingdom building project for the City of Kanata or March Township, whoever came up with the plan in the first place. It is terribly located, not even on Highway 417 even though the highway concept and location dates back to the 70s if not earlier.

We can all blame how the city decentralized on the Greber Plan as it was this plan that first came up with these spread out suburban office parks that have now been replicated by the private sector across the city. Even the Ottawa Business Park on Walkley Road is a product of the Greber Plan as the land for the abandoned railway station had to be re-purposed.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by caveat.doctor

Parking at DND facilities matches market rates (http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policie...ders-directives-1000/1004-1.page#pcf-dse). When I was working at the old NDMC near the General Hospital, for example, it was about $20/week. I don't park at Carling, but it's about $40/month if I remember the move information.



Glad to see the “swoosh” is gone - it was looking pretty dated, like the logo of an early-2000s start-up. Would’ve liked to have seen something matching the “red O” (or 3/4 of an O) design on the new bus stops and upcoming LRT signs, but plain is good and professional.

That's just an incomplete train. Part of the Maple Leaf is also missing. Here are a few complete train;




https://twitter.com/OC_Transpo

I'm also not a fan of the swoosh, but it looks better than the rendering and probably won't be too visible when the trains are at the platforms.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I don't agree about Kanata. How accessible is the business park to other parts of the city? It is a terrible commute just like CTC for people in the east half of the city. I know somebody who struggled with that commute that often is worse than CTC because it falls at rush hour every day. The Kanata Business Park was a kingdom building project for the City of Kanata or March Township, whoever came up with the plan in the first place. It is terribly located, not even on Highway 417 even though the highway concept and location dates back to the 70s if not earlier.

We can all blame how the city decentralized on the Greber Plan as it was this plan that first came up with these spread out suburban office parks that have now been replicated by the private sector across the city. Even the Ottawa Business Park on Walkley Road is a product of the Greber Plan as the land for the abandoned railway station had to be re-purposed.

Sorry for the miss-understanding. I didn't mean Kanata North is a good location. What I meant was that the jobs and the population came together, so people would move to Kanata knowing that they would work there in the high-tech centre.

That's compared to Orleansians who worked downtown at the DND or Vanier at the RCMP and are now forced to work west or south.

There's a sector organically growing in a suburban area and government departments moved to the boonies to "help the economy" (doesn't matter, because your in the same City) or buy votes.