Canada Election 2015

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Migs

What exactly would an inquest do other than tell you the obvious? And I'm not too sure what you're referring to when you say aboriginal women are "off the radar" as the RCMP works tirelessly trying to solve those cases. Oppression of women is oppression of women, regardless what colour or heritage you are.

Nuke 'em from space, right?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

Exactly. It's pretty unlikely that federal bureaucrats in Ottawa are going to be able to successfully predict which specific industries will be successful and efficiently allocate resources accordingly. We've already got a way to do that without government. Markets do it best*.





*And on the odd occasion that they don't, government can then decide on an appropriate response.

You seem to think that the private sector winners are not involved in the bureaucratic decisions. It's called lobbying and some are better at it than others, as the market would dictate.

[travis3000]

This surge in Conservative support in Quebec is worrying me... with Quebec on board, Harper has a much easier shot at obtaining a majority government. I have done the math, and it's very possible. If Quebec in fact does elect 25 Tory MP's, and Ontario elects 65 Tories (very possible). Then plug in Atlantic Canada, the prairies, and BC and you have Harper coming in somewhere around 164-168 seats..... damn close to 170. I always doubted he'd be able to reach majority status but with this new Quebec support, he has a better chance now then ever before. Yikes.

[CANAUS]

Originally Posted by travis3000

This surge in Conservative support in Quebec is worrying me... with Quebec on board, Harper has a much easier shot at obtaining a majority government. I have done the math, and it's very possible. If Quebec in fact does elect 25 Tory MP's, and Ontario elects 65 Tories (very possible). Then plug in Atlantic Canada, the prairies, and BC and you have Harper coming in somewhere around 164-168 seats..... damn close to 170. I always doubted he'd be able to reach majority status but with this new Quebec support, he has a better chance now then ever before. Yikes.

If the Ekos poll is accurate. Quebec is very volatile at the moment. Nanos is still showing the Liberals and NDP ahead in Quebec.

Of course, anything is possible in this rollercoaster of an election.

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

You seem to think that the private sector winners are not involved in the bureaucratic decisions. It's called lobbying and some are better at it than others, as the market would dictate.

Lobbying only occurs if industry groups are under the impression that government will act on their demands.

If the government sets the precedent that it will not get involved with picking favourites, the lobbying will stop. That means eliminating all tariffs and supply management, and radically simplifying the tax code. No loopholes, no tax credits targeted to certain industries.

[vid]

Originally Posted by geotag277

The RCMP released a report that showed 90% of the murders were solved and that solve rates are in line between aboriginal and non-aboriginal women.

The police exist to solve cases, not to solve endemic problems with society. We spend more federal money on First Nations per capita than Canadian citizens.

Not every problem needs more federal resources in inquires and studies and money involved.

Hate crimes against Muslims are also on the rise, do you think we need a federal inquiry into that as well? Teen alcohol use and binge drinking is also up. Federal inquiry is the answer? More people in Quebec are smoking. Federal inquiry?

As someone who has had a loved one taken away by homicide, which is unsolved, the idea that you can look at a solve rate of 90% and say "there is no problem" is extremely offensive to me. I'm not going to say "you can't be serious" because I know enough people like you to know that you are. But it's difficult to accept that there are people comfortable enough with that mindset to not only live with it, but to share it in public.

At no point after it happened did I say "we need to go out and punish someone". At no point after it happened did I say "once it is solved, everything will be back to normal!" At no point after it happened did I say "once they punish whoever committed this crime against our family, everything will be OK!"

After it happened I thought "holy fuck, this is a really horrible thing to experience, and even though it wasn't unexpected considering the life they lived it still hurts a lot. I wish it had never happened."

The purpose of an inquest is to investigate what led to the death of an individual or group of individuals, whether it is a workplace accident or a systemic racism that negatively impacts the daily life of over 3% of Canadians. The inquest will look into the root causes of the murders and why women went missing, so that it can develop binding recommendations on how our country can prevent future tragedies. They key word in this is "prevention". That is what we want. We want to prevent future tragedies as much as possible.

I don't understand why you don't get that? It doesn't really matter that these tragedies were "solved" by the police. We'd rather create a society where they're not happening in the first place. I think the police would rather not have to investigate murders and missing people all the time, too. The police in my city are part of millions across this country demanding an inquest into missing and murdered Indigenous women, so it isn't even like you're on the side of the police anymore. They agree that an inquest is necessary.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Migs

What exactly would an inquest do other than tell you the obvious?

It is binding. The results of an inquest MUST be addressed by parliament. THAT is what we want. And in addition to that, there are some results that might not be as obvious as you'd think. It's a more multi-faceted issue than people want to believe.

Originally Posted by Migs

And I'm not too sure what you're referring to when you say aboriginal women are "off the radar" as the RCMP works tirelessly trying to solve those cases.

I'm not referring to the RCMP, I am referring to Stephen Harper.

The primary role of police in this situation is simply investigating tragedies after they've happened. We're aiming to prevent them, so that police aren't involved at all, except through efforts to prevent crime.

Originally Posted by Migs

Oppression of women is oppression of women, regardless what colour or heritage you are.

Then how do you explain the higher rates of oppression of indigenous women?

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Pretty inspiring guy. What are his chances?

Very good. He was a Liberal MLA prior. This is one of two ridings in Calgary that likely won't go blue.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by CANAUS

I am not suggesting that murders are not being solved. I am suggesting prevention is worth a lot more than 'solving' a murder since the person is still dead. The deed is done.

Again thousands of missing First Nations women is a sad reality in this country that we do not need to accept. The other issues you mention are arguably not as severe and have already been studied exhaustively by federal healthy agencies in the case of teen alcohol use and binge drinking and human rights commissions (among others) in the case of racism. Actually, with considerable government action, we have been able to make progress on many of these files - smoking rates for example are down considerably due in part to public health campaigns, taxation, regulation and extensive, well-funded research into the issue.

First of all, where are you getting "thousands" from? We are talking a period of 30 years and 1017 aboriginal women were killed.

Crime rates fluctuate all over the country all the time. There were over 42000 missing persons reports across Canada.

It is a community issue. If the RCMP needs more resources to do their jobs (which it doesn't appear they do as they are solving all their cases), they can request more resources.

Beyond that, it is a case by case approach for each community, just like it would be for any other crime. And at least in Calgary we don't expect the Federal government to step in just because we are seeing spikes in some societal issues.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by vid

As someone who has had a loved one taken away by homicide, which is unsolved, the idea that you can look at a solve rate of 90% and say "there is no problem" is extremely offensive to me. I'm not going to say "you can't be serious" because I know enough people like you to know that you are. But it's difficult to accept that there are people comfortable enough with that mindset to not only live with it, but to share it in public.

At no point after it happened did I say "we need to go out and punish someone". At no point after it happened did I say "once it is solved, everything will be back to normal!" At no point after it happened did I say "once they punish whoever committed this crime against our family, everything will be OK!"

After it happened I thought "holy fuck, this is a really horrible thing to experience, and even though it wasn't unexpected considering the life they lived it still hurts a lot. I wish it had never happened."

The purpose of an inquest is to investigate what led to the death of an individual or group of individuals, whether it is a workplace accident or a systemic racism that negatively impacts the daily life of over 3% of Canadians. The inquest will look into the root causes of the murders and why women went missing, so that it can develop binding recommendations on how our country can prevent future tragedies. They key word in this is "prevention". That is what we want. We want to prevent future tragedies as much as possible.

I don't understand why you don't get that? It doesn't really matter that these tragedies were "solved" by the police. We'd rather create a society where they're not happening in the first place. I think the police would rather not have to investigate murders and missing people all the time, too. The police in my city are part of millions across this country demanding an inquest into missing and murdered Indigenous women, so it isn't even like you're on the side of the police anymore. They agree that an inquest is necessary.

I assume you don't live in a First Nations community. What exactly would you want the Federal government to do to step in to assist you with your own particular situation?

Of course we should be pursuing prevention, and I'm not trying to argue that we shouldn't put some resources into some communities where this has been shown to be an issue, but this idea that the federal government needs to step into to each individual missing persons case and oversee the operations of the RCMP and other police divisions is absurd.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

First we had the straw man. Then egregrious cases of false dichotomies. Then the base rate fallacy. Now we have exemplars of sweeping something under the rug.

all couched in self-righteous indignation. Well, as the old saying goes, you can fool some of the people some of the time...


thepoliticalcarnival

Please, educate us with another "hardball" video of how many times politicians say "excuse me". That seems to be the extent of your critical thinking skills and it's been a while since we've had a contribution from you.

[MolsonExport]

straw man alert

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by geotag277

Please, educate us with another "hardball" video of how many times politicians say "excuse me". That seems to be the extent of your critical thinking skills and it's been a while since we've had a contribution from you.

If the shoe fits, wear it. Props to you for having correctly guessed the target of my ire.

You haven't made any contributions aside from blustering and extremely callous generalizations. As for critical thinking, I have comprehensively catalogued your patterns of being unable to think in this fashion.

As for we've, you speak only for yourself and (maybe) Migs. Was that disingenuous of me?

Now you must excuse me as I have go back to listening to Donald Trump and his...how did you put it? Fresh Air?

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by CANAUS

If the Ekos poll is accurate. Quebec is very volatile at the moment. Nanos is still showing the Liberals and NDP ahead in Quebec.

Of course, anything is possible in this rollercoaster of an election.

Nanos today is also showing that Harper is now tops in QC in terms of "Best PM" numbers. Never, ever recall seeing that before. Ever. Yep. QC has one helluva fickle electorate.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

If the shoe fits, wear it. You haven't made any contributions aside from blustering and extremely callous generalizations. As for critical thinking, I have comprehensively catalogued your patterns of being unable to think in this fashion.

Just speaking generally - there are those of us that put effort into having a conversation here. Sometimes our ideas are good. Sometimes our ideas suck. Sometimes we contribute insightful commentary, sometimes we contribute garbage. I have no problems admitting I do all of the above.

There is another category of contributors here, who simply refrain from saying anything beyond memes and images, and simply attack the posters who invariably are actually putting an iota of effort into engaging in a conversation. They don't contribute anything beyond attacking people they disagree with via passive aggressive meme photos.

I'm not sure what the problem is with this class of poster, but it seems they are painfully afraid of actually engaging in a conversation, having their views challenged, and, gasp, being wrong or made to look like a fool.

Hey, I admit there have been several times on this thread I've been made to look foolish, through my own faults and shortcomings as a contributor, but at least I take the chance and put myself out there to be challenged.

Live like a turtle, die like a turtle. Enjoy your shell.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

Lobbying only occurs if industry groups are under the impression that government will act on their demands.

If the government sets the precedent that it will not get involved with picking favourites, the lobbying will stop. That means eliminating all tariffs and supply management, and radically simplifying the tax code. No loopholes, no tax credits targeted to certain industries.

That is so cute! I take it you don't have experience in government?

[CANAUS]

Originally Posted by geotag277

First of all, where are you getting "thousands" from? We are talking a period of 30 years and 1017 aboriginal women were killed.

Crime rates fluctuate all over the country all the time. There were over 42000 missing persons reports across Canada.

It is a community issue. If the RCMP needs more resources to do their jobs (which it doesn't appear they do as they are solving all their cases), they can request more resources.

Beyond that, it is a case by case approach for each community, just like it would be for any other crime. And at least in Calgary we don't expect the Federal government to step in just because we are seeing spikes in some societal issues.

True - 1017 killed and 164 missing Aboriginal women which represents 16% of the total for all women (4.3% of the Canadian population identifies as Aboriginal). The current approach is not working. According to the Constitution, First Nations is a federal issue.

[vid]

Originally Posted by geotag277

I assume you don't live in a First Nations community. What exactly would you want the Federal government to do to step in to assist you with your own particular situation?

Part of the issue is what the federal government either has or hasn't been doing in/with/for First Nations communities over the past several decades. No one can deny they're treated differently, and that's a significant part (but not the only part) of the problem here.

This is a systemic problem. This isn't individual people saying they want intervention in an individual problem. This is a large number of people, coming together and saying that they are, collectively, the survivors of these crimes and that they want answers and results to prevent the problem from continuing. The traumatic stress caused by these murders and disappearances is a major contributing factor to societal break down in First Nations communities, and that societal break down is a contributing factor to the murders and disappearances. And yet still, it isn't that simple.

Originally Posted by geotag277

Of course we should be pursuing prevention, and I'm not trying to argue that we shouldn't put some resources into some communities where this has been shown to be an issue

It's an issue in most communities. It's a systemic, nationwide problem.

Originally Posted by geotag277

but this idea that the federal government needs to step into to each individual missing persons case and oversee the operations of the RCMP and other police divisions is absurd.

How else do they get the answers they need to bring about the results we're seeking?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by topdog

Even the Muslim women that I know and work with who are born and raised in Canada are still under a significant amount of control from their families. Most don't socialize outside if their family. Moving to a shelter would be a big deal for them, let alone a women from another culture and language background.

Same things could be said about many Mennonites!

[vid]

Originally Posted by CANAUS

True - 1017 killed and 164 missing Aboriginal women which represents 16% of the total for all women (4.3% of the Canadian population identifies as Aboriginal). The current approach is not working. According to the Constitution, First Nations is a federal issue.

It's not a federal issue, it's a federal responsibility. One that that level of government bestowed upon itself.

They're failing in their responsibilities. Not just on MMIW, but on housing, education, health care, and drinking water. The Federal government, through the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs, has developed a government system that is extremely ineffective in delivering services on their behalf, and instead of fixing a mess that they've created, they blame the people stuck in a system that they, themselves, designed.