Canada Election 2015 - Page 120

CANAUS · #**2381** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by geotag277

And this folks is why the Federal Government can never defund any program, department, institution, or single dollar bill from anything already approved. Because defunding something is exactly the same as endorsing the opposite. Defund a science department, you are anti scienece. Defund women's program, you are anti-women.

It couldn't possibly be the case that the Federal Government doesn't need to be throwing all this money around, nope, every single expenditure is important and can only go up, not down.

There are 3200+ unsolved homicides in Canada and 42000+ cases of missing persons. There is too many across the board. First Nations have responsibilities just like communities across Canada in making sure these things don't happen. It's not all the Federal Government's fault for every single problem with Canadian society and not every problem involves the Federal Government flailing tax revenues around trying to fix it from Ottawa.

2 people die from terrorism - The response from our government? New sweeping anti-terror laws increasing spying powers and a citizenship revoking law are passed with little research conducted to prove the effectiveness of either bill

Thousands of missing First Nation women - The response? nothing, nada, zilch

First Nations women go missing at rates much higher than other Canadian women. That is a fact.

Missing First Nations women is a federal issue as federal jurisdiction includes First Nations governance and relations. It is not inevitable that so many First Nations women must go missing in our society. I do not pretend to have the answer, or that it is as easy as throwing money at the problem. Let us like any other intelligent, rational society call an inquiry into the matter so that we can at least act based on evidence.

geotag277 · #**2382** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CANAUS

2 people die from terrorism - The response from our government? New sweeping anti-terror laws increasing spying powers and a citizenship revoking law are passed with little research conducted to prove the effectiveness of either bill

Thousands of missing First Nation women - The response? nothing, nada, zilch

First Nations women go missing at rates much higher than other Canadian women. That is a fact.

Missing First Nations women is a federal issue as federal jurisdiction includes First Nations governance and relations. It is not inevitable that so many First Nations women must go missing in our society. I do not pretend to have the answer, or that it is as easy as throwing money at the problem. Let us like any other intelligent, rational society call an inquiry into the matter so that we can at least act based on evidence.

The RCMP released a report that showed 90% of the murders were solved and that solve rates are in line between aboriginal and non-aboriginal women.

The police exist to solve cases, not to solve endemic problems with society. We spend more federal money on First Nations per capita than Canadian citizens.

Not every problem needs more federal resources in inquires and studies and money involved.

Hate crimes against Muslims are also on the rise, do you think we need a federal inquiry into that as well? Teen alcohol use and binge drinking is also up. Federal inquiry is the answer? More people in Quebec are smoking. Federal inquiry?

O-tacular · #**2383** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by topdog

This is not tyanny for the masses. I know where you're coming from but you're simplifying the issue. This is about the niqab and covering one's face. At least it is for me. It's the same issue I have with Sharia law. It's a custom that's not needed or integral to the religion.
It's not about oppression to practising a religion. Muslim women can wear the hijab and still be Muslim, or even wear no heard garb at all and still be Muslim.

Dammit I swore to myself I wouldn't get into this topic again! Argh! This post I can't ignore though because it represents an oversight I see in many of these types of arguments.

I'd simply like to ask you a question to illustrate my point:

The Vatican says Catholics should not use birth control because it is viewed as destroying life (kind of like taking the pro life stance to the extreme). Other Christian faiths don't have this same rule. So why should Catholics not use birth control if other Protestant faiths don't really have a stance on it? All Christians are the same right?

lio45 · #**2384** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:33 AM**

IIRC, it's the first time (at least in the last few weeks) that 308's "likely seat outcome" aura crosses into the majority threshold for a party...

asdf

travis3000 · #**2385** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:36 AM**

The new EKOS daily poll today shows the Conservatives and Liberals coming even closer together. The Liberals are up 1 point, the Conservatives down a point. Nanos and Ekos are pretty similar now with both parties within a couple points of one another. Both show Trudeau leading Ontario now which is interesting.

NANOS shows Quebec with NDP at #1, Liberals at #2, and Conservatives at #3, while EKOS shows Conservatives #1 in Quebec, Liberals #2, and NDP #3. Very interesting stuff. EKOS goes on to say that if this trend continues and Harper climbs over 30% in the province then the Tories will win 25 seats there, which would be unreal.

CANAUS · #**2386** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by geotag277

The RCMP released a report that showed 90% of the murders were solved and that solve rates are in line between aboriginal and non-aboriginal women.

The police exist to solve cases, not to solve endemic problems with society. We spend more federal money on First Nations per capita than Canadian citizens.

Not every problem needs more federal resources in inquires and studies and money involved.

Hate crimes against Muslims are also on the rise, do you think we need a federal inquiry into that as well? Teen alcohol use and binge drinking is also up. Federal inquiry is the answer? More people in Quebec are smoking. Federal inquiry?

I am not suggesting that murders are not being solved. I am suggesting prevention is worth a lot more than 'solving' a murder since the person is still dead. The deed is done.

Again thousands of missing First Nations women is a sad reality in this country that we do not need to accept. The other issues you mention are arguably not as severe and have already been studied exhaustively by federal healthy agencies in the case of teen alcohol use and binge drinking and human rights commissions (among others) in the case of racism. Actually, with considerable government action, we have been able to make progress on many of these files - smoking rates for example are down considerably due in part to public health campaigns, taxation, regulation and extensive, well-funded research into the issue.

MolsonExport · #**2387** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:39 AM**

First we had the straw man. Then egregrious cases of false dichotomies. Then the base rate fallacy. Now we have exemplars of sweeping something under the rug.

all couched in self-righteous indignation. Well, as the old saying goes, you can fool some of the people some of the time...

thepoliticalcarnival

travis3000 · #**2388** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:44 AM**

Quebec is always the wildcard. Can you imagine if the Conservatives surge to #1 and win 30 seats in the province? That would almost guarantee a Conservative strong minority, add that on to the 50 seats in Ontario, 5 seats in Atlantic, 20 seats in Man/Sas, 30 seats in Alberta, and 20 seats in BC. That's 155 seats right there. If they can get Ontario up to 65-70 seats and build on that Quebec surge, boom there's your majority. I honestly think it's possible as you'll see Ontario go more Conservative in the final weekend before election day, just like last time.

lio45 · #**2389** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by travis3000

The new EKOS daily poll today shows the Conservatives and Liberals coming even closer together. The Liberals are up 1 point, the Conservatives down a point. Nanos and Ekos are pretty similar now with both parties within a couple points of one another. Both show Trudeau leading Ontario now which is interesting.

NANOS shows Quebec with NDP at #1, Liberals at #2, and Conservatives at #3, while EKOS shows Conservatives #1 in Quebec, Liberals #2, and NDP #3. Very interesting stuff. EKOS goes on to say that if this trend continues and Harper climbs over 30% in the province then the Tories will win 25 seats there, which would be unreal.

Most of Quebec is somewhat of an orphan politically at the moment after this "wake up call" by the NDP... it's not an exaggeration to say that nearly anything could happen now.

vid · #**2390** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by geotag277

And this folks is why the Federal Government can never defund any program, department, institution, or single dollar bill from anything already approved. Because defunding something is exactly the same as endorsing the opposite. Defund a science department, you are anti scienece. Defund women's program, you are anti-women.

It couldn't possibly be the case that the Federal Government doesn't need to be throwing all this money around, nope, every single expenditure is important and can only go up, not down.

There are 3200+ unsolved homicides in Canada and 42000+ cases of missing persons. There is too many across the board. First Nations have responsibilities just like communities across Canada in making sure these things don't happen. It's not all the Federal Government's fault for every single problem with Canadian society and not every problem involves the Federal Government flailing tax revenues around trying to fix it from Ottawa.

But by all means, let's throw a tonne of money, time and effort at a single issue that affects several hundred women.

Acajack · #**2391** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Most of Quebec is somewhat of an orphan politically at the moment after this "wake up call" by the NDP... it's not an exaggeration to say that nearly anything could happen now.

Quebec seems to be waking up from a one-night stand with the NDP right now. There is no more makeup on the face and the buzz from the booze has worn off.

MolsonExport · #**2392** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quebec seems to be waking up from a one-night stand with the NDP right now. There is no more makeup on the face and the buzz from the booze has worn off.

More like a years-long menage a trois, with Quebec, Layton, and then Mulcair

lio45 · #**2393** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Hey, DrNevergold (Brandon716) never did come back, did he...

Nope, he's still at 20,092 posts.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=218902

It seems he meant it when he said he was leaving...

Migs · #**2394** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by geotag277

The RCMP released a report that showed 90% of the murders were solved and that solve rates are in line between aboriginal and non-aboriginal women.

The police exist to solve cases, not to solve endemic problems with society. We spend more federal money on First Nations per capita than Canadian citizens.

Not every problem needs more federal resources in inquires and studies and money involved.

Hate crimes against Muslims are also on the rise, do you think we need a federal inquiry into that as well? Teen alcohol use and binge drinking is also up. Federal inquiry is the answer? More people in Quebec are smoking. Federal inquiry?

^ He gets it!

MolsonExport · #**2395** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:52 AM**

gets what? is it catching?

kwoldtimer · #**2396** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quebec seems to be waking up from a one-night stand with the NDP right now. There is no more makeup on the face and the buzz from the booze has worn off.

Next come the recriminations, or just another tryst to dull the pain?

Migs · #**2397** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 1:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

Then why no support for the inquest into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women?

Why is abusing women so horrific when a Muslim man does it to his wife, but "not on the radar" when it's indigenous and white men doing it to indigenous women?

If fighting the oppression of women and standing up for Canadian values is so important, why his this government put so much effort into taking funding away from women's programmes?

What exactly would an inquest do other than tell you the obvious? And I'm not too sure what you're referring to when you say aboriginal women are "off the radar" as the RCMP works tirelessly trying to solve those cases. Oppression of women is oppression of women, regardless what colour or heritage you are.

Stingray2004 · #**2398** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:00 AM**

Recall back in late August/early September or thereabouts an unknown number called about 8 or so times... but I didn't bother to answer. Internet look-up told me it was Forum Research.

Again, over the past few days, another unknown number has been calling. Looked it up and this time it was NRG Research. After the 6th call I decided to answer so it wouldn't call again.

Yep, a live-interview political public opinion poll - CATI with prompted answers (IOW gave a selection). Lasted longer than I expected.. about 5 - 10 minutes.

And this was after reading a news article wondering which "bizarre" sub-set answers polls these days.

CANAUS · #**2399** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migs

What exactly would an inquest do other than tell you the obvious? And I'm not too sure what you're referring to when you say aboriginal women are "off the radar" as the RCMP works tirelessly trying to solve those cases. Oppression of women is oppression of women, regardless what colour or heritage you are.

Oppression of people is oppression of people, regardless of gender. See what I did there.

Procrastinational · #**2400** Posted **Oct 8, 2015, 2:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

So... I think the only logical conclusion is that the government shouldn't be arbitrarily picking winners and losers.

Exactly. It's pretty unlikely that federal bureaucrats in Ottawa are going to be able to successfully predict which specific industries will be successful and efficiently allocate resources accordingly. We've already got a way to do that without government. Markets do it best*.

*And on the odd occasion that they don't, government can then decide on an appropriate response.