[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[Townie709]

Yeah, I don't know. Hopefully they will be started next "construction season" along with the Harbourside Condos. Both will be nice density increasing developments and nice infill projects. Hopefully this year sometime, but I know about as much as a cardboard box, so.. Yeah!

We are going to need an army of workers this year! How are we going to even start all the approved projects?? Haha

[Architype]

^ Nice night shots.

However, there isn't much lighting at the top of most buildings.
Is that another heritage regulation?

351 will probably have a Husky sign at the top if they're the main tenant.


Source

[PoscStudent]

Shannie and the heritage committee don't like lit up signs in the heritage area.

[Townie709]

I wouldn't mind a light up sign. There's not too many of them around. It shodnt be a huge deal heritage-wise.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

Shannie and the heritage committee don't like lit up signs in the heritage area.

Too bad, but that's what gives a city skyline it's cachet.

[Townie709]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

Shannie and the heritage committee don't like lit up signs in the heritage area.

I can't see why. The building is there what's a little light up sign going to do? Don't people have better things to complain over than a light up sign on a building?? Oh well, I don't really care either way.

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by Townie709

I can't see why. The building is there what's a little light up sign going to do? Don't people have better things to complain over than a light up sign on a building?? Oh well, I don't really care either way.

It took 3 council meetings for them to approve a sign at Holy Heart, to advertise school events, because the heritage committee wasn't happy with it. There are other similar cases as well, and it's not just lit signs.

[Townie709]

I have asked before and I shall ask again seeing how it is the new year and I can't remember what I was told.. When is the new municipal plan due to be released to the public??

[MrChills]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

It's not just oil and gas! Where I work, in the circles I over hear people talking about massive mining projects and deposits being discovered .. many many HUGE ones. Also oil onshore and they keep finding more offshore .. this stuff along with musgrat falls and more mining projects in Labrador .. it's a ball that's picking up speed

One aspect of our booming economy that doesn't seem to get discussed here is the boom out West and how that plays into real estate and consumer confidence in St. John's and across NL. I guess it would be hard to nail down an exact number, but I suspect a lot of the houses going up, vehicles purchased, etc are from people that commute back and forth to Alberta and other areas that make money out west but spend it back in NL.

[MrChills]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

And here is the HSC update:

December 26, 2012





Should we have a separate HSC thread as well, going forward? I'm less sure about that one. But we're going to have our own section... we want to encourage people to join us and participate. If someone happens to be interested in just HSC, it'd be a great value to them to have a separate thread for it.

The HSC and MUN has to have the biggest mix of non cohesive buildings I've ever seen.

[MrChills]

Originally Posted by Townie709

If this proposal is a big as it sounds, I can see it being a much bigger issue than the fortis proposal ever was. The Fortis Proposal was the first highrise to be proposed in the city for 20 years. It destroyed heritage properties, was not very attractive, and would tower over everything around it in that area. Obviously residents and the general public cried out over it because it was quite a shock to people that development can actually happen here. But in the time since then, we seem to be warming up to the idea of development. I believe people are growing very tired of the NIBMYism here and the vocal minority is losing power. Ask the general public now, and they approve of modern developments within reason downtown.

A big modern proposal today will NOT be shot down right away. People will still cry out, yell, scream, and whine over the proposal, but I hope this time the general public says enough is enough and fights back. There is enough modern development here now for most people to realize change isn't bad. The welfare of a city does not revolve around decrepit department stores, or 5 peoples views being impacted.

This mystery developer sounds like they are well prepared for a fight and I will be rooting for them all the way. Tides are turning in this city and it's time we stop listening to the whining and complaining of the self-centered, egocentric vocal minority and get things approved.

I'm going to use the bowrings location as an example again, because I feel it would be the best spot for such a development. If the tower portion was set back from water street towards harbour drive and the water street side retained a heritage facade and retail within the height limits, it's a win-win situation. We keep our historic water street while building up and increasing density. It is a no brainier to me and I cannot see there being enough opposition to halt such a development this time around. (providing it has a good design. Design is everything)

I will support whatever this project is and I pray that people will finally realize that you cannot stay stagnant as a city. You either grow or die. We have left our downtown to rot and die for 20 years and it's finally starting to make a rebound. Let's keep the wave going with whatever this new proposal and let's finally have a significant win for development in this city.

Edit: Christopher, if there are any additional details you can share with me, feel very very very free to private message me

Very well said -

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by MrChills

The HSC and MUN has to have the biggest mix of non cohesive buildings I've ever seen.

And the Avalon Mall.

[MrChills]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

This proposal will change the landscape for 1 block of Water Street. One building will come down and a massive one rebuilt. The dickensville era building attached to it will remain AS IS. It will be 8/9 storeys in the front and go up to I believe 23 storeys towards the back.

I also learned last night at my cousins house party Fortis will be back late fall and once again try to build the 2nd tower next to theirs.

23 stories? I don't want to get too excited before I see more details, but

It amazes me the impact a handful of the NIMBY crowd make in the press when they protest a development. If this mystery project is something that would work really for St. John's, we need to mobilize some pro-development troops to hit the street and make noise in public meetings and spam the council and press with support for the project.

[SignalHillHiker]

Bannerman Park is getting some (locally) big name support.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundla.../nl-enid-eulalia-bannerman-park-104.html

And they even manage to turn that into a discussion on independence. lol

[MrChills]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

That's the problem we look at average wages and not actual wages. For example across the street where I live the young couple make in excess of 350k a year due to both working in the oil industry where as the house next to them only make roughly 80k as they work for the government.

So when you add those up and get the average of those 2 households it gives a skewed amount of 107,500 each, when in fact that is not the truth.

What's even more sad is that the majority of small businesses here cannot even keep up with what the government is paying - let alone even dream of what oil and gas is paying (I worked 12 years in IT and Marketing and make more in two days in the oil and gas industry as I did in two weeks at a upper management level in the city). Also, during that time I was in a hiring and firing position in the city for three years and the Provincial Government was one of our biggest headaches for taking away talent.

[MrChills]

Originally Posted by Townie709

But the best thing about this proposal is that by destroying say, 20 views of people in the area, you are creating 100's more views with this 13 story residential tower. The view argument is invalid.

Hmmm.. I never really thought about it that way before. Interesting take on the issue of most downtown residents who think having a protected view is a part of the Resident of St. John's Constitution

[SignalHillHiker]

What gets me is that most of the people who complain about blocking views are speaking specifically about their own, privately-owned view.

Let's say I own a downtown rowhouse - one of the best, worth about $1 million (and that is top of the line, even the Military Road ones have been selling for $900,000 at most - and most are well under $500,000).

Let's say it has a view of the harbour, however minimal. How much is that view worth to my home? A few tens of thousands at best, judging by the price differences between homes that have views of the harbour and those that don't.

But lets be generous and pretend the view is worth the entire value of my home. With the view, I could sell it for $1 million - without it, I could only give it away.

Do I have the right to oppose and prevent a multi-million dollar development that will provide so many benefits to my city simply to protect my own private investment? I don't think so. Especially not when the real impact to me is so minimal.

I think that's selfish.

Now, it's a different story if we're talking about the view from a public building, or any place the public can access. Then it's much more valuable because its worth is magnified by the number of people who can access and appreciate it.

But, for private homes... no. We can't hold our city back so you can see Scotia Place from your back bathroom. Sorry.

[statbass]

Originally Posted by MrChills

One aspect of our booming economy that doesn't seem to get discussed here is the boom out West and how that plays into real estate and consumer confidence in St. John's and across NL. I guess it would be hard to nail down an exact number, but I suspect a lot of the houses going up, vehicles purchased, etc are from people that commute back and forth to Alberta and other areas that make money out west but spend it back in NL.

Agreed, the boom out west has definitely added to the boom here locally (and to the rest of Canada for that matter).

[bluestar123]

As a history buff/major. I can understand where groups like the heritage committee are coming from. I also firmly believe that, we make history. Weather it is through political indifference or new development. How can we press forwards, if we don't know about the pass. what issues or events that we gotten wrong.
In saying all that, take the rooms. It is the new centre piece for St.John's skyline for the next few decades. I look at it and think it is new ,modern, big and really does not fit in with the multi color row houses. yet at the same time as soon as i see a picture of it. I know where it is, what it is. Right away it reminds me of home. That building is now apart of St.John's, it a symbol. Think of all the issue people had when that project was proposed.

All of these committee and societies that are fighting to stop change, need to step back and instead of stopping process become more involved with the process.
I love the idea that some new building downtown should have to make there first two or three floor, to fit into the downtown theme.

and that what grinds my gears..

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by bluestar123

As a history buff/major. I can understand where groups like the heritage committee are coming from. I also firmly believe that, we make history. Weather it is through political indifference or new development. How can we press forwards, if we don't know about the pass. what issues or events that we gotten wrong.
In saying all that, take the rooms. It is the new centre piece for St.John's skyline for the next few decades. I look at it and think it is new ,modern, big and really does not fit in with the multi color row houses. yet at the same time as soon as i see a picture of it. I know where it is, what it is. Right away it reminds me of home. That building is now apart of St.John's, it a symbol. Think of all the issue people had when that project was proposed.

All of these committee and societies that are fighting to stop change, need to step back and instead of stopping process become more involved with the process.
I love the idea that some new building downtown should have to make there first two or three floor, to fit into the downtown theme.

and that what grinds my gears..

I completey agree.. All of the existinf buildings had to be built at some time, what we make now will be woven into the fabric of what is St. John's. I said it once before a long time ago when talking about this ..

Years ago it was the cathedrals and public buildings that were symbols of importance prestige and gandure in cities .. also palaces and such .. in our modern world, these symbols which use to be the churches are now skyscrapers and office buildings.

To illustrate what I mean... in the 1700's the cities with the largest most elaborate and beautiful churches were concidered symbols of power, grandure and prosperity.


Today cities with beautiful skylines are looked at as the ones with success and prosperity. Also you take the symbols of the past such as the beautiful old buildings AND create a great skyline with impressive new buildings (coexisting)..

Some people have it confused both ways .. we need both and what is impressive ane beautiful today will be the heritage architecture from our period in time in the future.

To simplify .. the grand modern buildings of today are what the grand churches and heritage buildings were of the past