[St. John's] The Official Project Thread - Page 341

jeddy1989 · #**6801** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 12:31 AM**

I wish I knew more about the project!! When is early 2013? .. like January!? hahaha

PoscStudent · #**6802** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 2:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsell

While the Mayor only has 1 vote (2 in the case of a tie) and can’t really determine the outcome of development proposals I would hope that any Mayor I would vote for would have a vision of what kind of city he/she wants to shape for future generations.

This Mayor and Council as a whole hasn’t demonstrated that it has a vision at all and in many cases (ie: City planning / Regional planning) has tried to avoid at all turns trying to formulate one.

Everything that happens has been so ad hoc that it is scary…and in many cases we are seeing the results, or lack thereof.

Actually the mayor doesn't even vote now, only in the case of a tie. A mayor should be able to get councillors onside with his vision, but I don't think that is always the case.

PoscStudent · #**6803** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 2:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

From talking to my friend it appears as they are moving with this earlier than expected. Apparently Council has seen 4 different renderings for this massive proposal, and from what he told me 1 was on the fence about it while 2 flat our rejected any notion of this (and I am quoting) "Barbaric Modern Monstrosity" and apparently 1 of the 2 intends to fight this tooth and nail.

So let me get this straight; Galgay isn't fussy on the proposal, Shannie hates it, and O'Leary thinks its a monstrosity and will use the development to try and further her career.

jeddy1989 · #**6804** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 2:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

So let me get this straight; Galgay isn't fussy on the proposal, Shannie hates it, and O'Leary thinks its a monstrosity and will use the development to try and further her career.

that sounds right to me hahahahaha

Now the key is getting public opinion swaying more in favor ... if it is to improve the garage and NOT destroy any existing buildings and improve the waterfront .. that will be enough for the general public .. but they are not the ones who will kick up the stink! they could (with their cult leader) take on the views card (heaven forbid someone while they are on the toilet cannot see the narrows), the modern in historic area card (which doesn't hod water if it's replacing the old garage), the traffic card (which was a big card in the Fortis situation) or the golden card which is precedent for future developments because they didn't follow heritage regulations to a tee

The other side will feel it is good because it is urban it is downtown it is making an eyesore better that helps tourism from the cruise ships and it brings jobs and progress..

GO! -

jeddy1989 · #**6805** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 3:09 AM**

all the same if they just get the general public on their side (even without the NIMBYs) and the majority of councilors think its good ... thats all that matters

Townie709 · #**6806** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 3:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

From talking to my friend it appears as they are moving with this earlier than expected. Apparently Council has seen 4 different renderings for this massive proposal, and from what he told me 1 was on the fence about it while 2 flat our rejected any notion of this (and I am quoting) "Barbaric Modern Monstrosity" and apparently 1 of the 2 intends to fight this tooth and nail.

Okay, I am assuming 1 and 2 are O'Leary and Duff, not refering to the renders council has seen, and the one who will fight is O'Leary, correct? I don't think we need to preserve the identities of idiots such as O'leary here. Might as well get them out in the open.

Chris, So is this the development that Doc O'keefe was talking about on VOCM? Can you please give a yes or a no answer. I hope it is. If he loves it, you can be guaranteed that other members of council like it as well for him to go public and call it beautiful. I also get the feeling that the rest of council does not like O'Leary and will do what they can to keep her out and shut her up. If the majority of council like it, than it can be pushed through before the and approved before the election and there is nothing the she-devil can do about it.

Townie709 · #**6807** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 3:49 AM**

If this proposal is a big as it sounds, I can see it being a much bigger issue than the fortis proposal ever was. The Fortis Proposal was the first highrise to be proposed in the city for 20 years. It destroyed heritage properties, was not very attractive, and would tower over everything around it in that area. Obviously residents and the general public cried out over it because it was quite a shock to people that development can actually happen here. But in the time since then, we seem to be warming up to the idea of development. I believe people are growing very tired of the NIBMYism here and the vocal minority is losing power. Ask the general public now, and they approve of modern developments within reason downtown.

A big modern proposal today will NOT be shot down right away. People will still cry out, yell, scream, and whine over the proposal, but I hope this time the general public says enough is enough and fights back. There is enough modern development here now for most people to realize change isn't bad. The welfare of a city does not revolve around decrepit department stores, or 5 peoples views being impacted.

This mystery developer sounds like they are well prepared for a fight and I will be rooting for them all the way. Tides are turning in this city and it's time we stop listening to the whining and complaining of the self-centered, egocentric vocal minority and get things approved.

I'm going to use the bowrings location as an example again, because I feel it would be the best spot for such a development. If the tower portion was set back from water street towards harbour drive and the water street side retained a heritage facade and retail within the height limits, it's a win-win situation. We keep our historic water street while building up and increasing density. It is a no brainier to me and I cannot see there being enough opposition to halt such a development this time around. (providing it has a good design. Design is everything)

I will support whatever this project is and I pray that people will finally realize that you cannot stay stagnant as a city. You either grow or die. We have left our downtown to rot and die for 20 years and it's finally starting to make a rebound. Let's keep the wave going with whatever this new proposal and let's finally have a significant win for development in this city.

Edit: Christopher, if there are any additional details you can share with me, feel very very very free to private message me

Architype · #**6808** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 5:59 AM**

I like it when there is a cliffhanger in the thread . . . to be continued next year!

SignalHillHiker · #**6809** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 11:41 AM**

Sorry, I've been so absent, all - moving. And lots to do today as well. Also, no internet yet so I can't even take extended breaks.

So exciting.

In my opinion, if this proposal is attractive and doesn't destroy our heritage, I'll support it - no matter the height.

I wish we'd gone with taller/thinner towers from the beginning. Even Atlantic Place would've been better as three separate towers, each a few floors higher. The scale of these massive, squat buildings is a little big for St. John's. Fortis Place breaks it up a bit, though, which is nice.

christopher_chafe · #**6810** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 12:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Townie709

Okay, I am assuming 1 and 2 are O'Leary and Duff, not refering to the renders council has seen, and the one who will fight is O'Leary, correct? I don't think we need to preserve the identities of idiots such as O'leary here. Might as well get them out in the open.

Chris, So is this the development that Doc O'keefe was talking about on VOCM? Can you please give a yes or a no answer. I hope it is. If he loves it, you can be guaranteed that other members of council like it as well for him to go public and call it beautiful. I also get the feeling that the rest of council does not like O'Leary and will do what they can to keep her out and shut her up. If the majority of council like it, than it can be pushed through before the and approved before the election and there is nothing the she-devil can do about it.

It is not the one DOC is talking about.

christopher_chafe · #**6811** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 12:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Townie709

If this proposal is a big as it sounds, I can see it being a much bigger issue than the fortis proposal ever was. The Fortis Proposal was the first highrise to be proposed in the city for 20 years. It destroyed heritage properties, was not very attractive, and would tower over everything around it in that area. Obviously residents and the general public cried out over it because it was quite a shock to people that development can actually happen here. But in the time since then, we seem to be warming up to the idea of development. I believe people are growing very tired of the NIBMYism here and the vocal minority is losing power. Ask the general public now, and they approve of modern developments within reason downtown.

A big modern proposal today will NOT be shot down right away. People will still cry out, yell, scream, and whine over the proposal, but I hope this time the general public says enough is enough and fights back. There is enough modern development here now for most people to realize change isn't bad. The welfare of a city does not revolve around decrepit department stores, or 5 peoples views being impacted.

This mystery developer sounds like they are well prepared for a fight and I will be rooting for them all the way. Tides are turning in this city and it's time we stop listening to the whining and complaining of the self-centered, egocentric vocal minority and get things approved.

I'm going to use the bowrings location as an example again, because I feel it would be the best spot for such a development. If the tower portion was set back from water street towards harbour drive and the water street side retained a heritage facade and retail within the height limits, it's a win-win situation. We keep our historic water street while building up and increasing density. It is a no brainier to me and I cannot see there being enough opposition to halt such a development this time around. (providing it has a good design. Design is everything)

I will support whatever this project is and I pray that people will finally realize that you cannot stay stagnant as a city. You either grow or die. We have left our downtown to rot and die for 20 years and it's finally starting to make a rebound. Let's keep the wave going with whatever this new proposal and let's finally have a significant win for development in this city.

Edit: Christopher, if there are any additional details you can share with me, feel very very very free to private message me

This proposal will change the landscape for 1 block of Water Street. One building will come down and a massive one rebuilt. The dickensville era building attached to it will remain AS IS. It will be 8/9 storeys in the front and go up to I believe 23 storeys towards the back.

I also learned last night at my cousins house party Fortis will be back late fall and once again try to build the 2nd tower next to theirs.

PoscStudent · #**6812** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 12:25 PM**

wow

christopher_chafe · #**6813** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 12:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Townie709

If this proposal is a big as it sounds, I can see it being a much bigger issue than the fortis proposal ever was. The Fortis Proposal was the first highrise to be proposed in the city for 20 years. It destroyed heritage properties, was not very attractive, and would tower over everything around it in that area. Obviously residents and the general public cried out over it because it was quite a shock to people that development can actually happen here. But in the time since then, we seem to be warming up to the idea of development. I believe people are growing very tired of the NIBMYism here and the vocal minority is losing power. Ask the general public now, and they approve of modern developments within reason downtown.

A big modern proposal today will NOT be shot down right away. People will still cry out, yell, scream, and whine over the proposal, but I hope this time the general public says enough is enough and fights back. There is enough modern development here now for most people to realize change isn't bad. The welfare of a city does not revolve around decrepit department stores, or 5 peoples views being impacted.

This mystery developer sounds like they are well prepared for a fight and I will be rooting for them all the way. Tides are turning in this city and it's time we stop listening to the whining and complaining of the self-centered, egocentric vocal minority and get things approved.

I'm going to use the bowrings location as an example again, because I feel it would be the best spot for such a development. If the tower portion was set back from water street towards harbour drive and the water street side retained a heritage facade and retail within the height limits, it's a win-win situation. We keep our historic water street while building up and increasing density. It is a no brainier to me and I cannot see there being enough opposition to halt such a development this time around. (providing it has a good design. Design is everything)

I will support whatever this project is and I pray that people will finally realize that you cannot stay stagnant as a city. You either grow or die. We have left our downtown to rot and die for 20 years and it's finally starting to make a rebound. Let's keep the wave going with whatever this new proposal and let's finally have a significant win for development in this city.

Edit: Christopher, if there are any additional details you can share with me, feel very very very free to private message me

Once this becomes public and the developers name is known. I can with 100% certainty say that the Rubber Boot crowd will finally have met their match. The main developer of this proposal is from the mainland and has pockets as deep as the ocean. He is known across Canada as someone who buys under utilized buildings and transforms them into money makers. Some of the towers he has built across Canada now house some of the largest mega companies in the world. Which could mean this town will finally see some well paying jobs!

PoscStudent · #**6814** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 12:30 PM**

I don't have a clue where Chris's proposal would be located, unless it's the block where the Fortis building is.

J_Murphy · #**6815** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 12:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

This proposal will change the landscape for 1 block of Water Street. One building will come down and a massive one rebuilt. The dickensville era building attached to it will remain AS IS. It will be 8/9 storeys in the front and go up to I believe 23 storeys towards the back.

I also learned last night at my cousins house party Fortis will be back late fall and once again try to build the 2nd tower next to theirs.

Wow...Shelaigh's and Shannie's heads are going to explode.

christopher_chafe · #**6816** Posted **Dec 31, 2012, 12:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Townie709

Okay, I am assuming 1 and 2 are O'Leary and Duff, not refering to the renders council has seen, and the one who will fight is O'Leary, correct? I don't think we need to preserve the identities of idiots such as O'leary here. Might as well get them out in the open.

Chris, So is this the development that Doc O'keefe was talking about on VOCM? Can you please give a yes or a no answer. I hope it is. If he loves it, you can be guaranteed that other members of council like it as well for him to go public and call it beautiful. I also get the feeling that the rest of council does not like O'Leary and will do what they can to keep her out and shut her up. If the majority of council like it, than it can be pushed through before the and approved before the election and there is nothing the she-devil can do about it.

Guys sorry but until this is public I will not mention any names!