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  #1781  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 12:02 AM
mill mill is offline
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Centerpoint, a high-rise residential and retail development in downtown Tempe, is seeking $50 million from a new source after its largest lender, Phoenix-based Mortgages Ltd. Securities, was unable to provide enough funding to complete the project by the end of the year.

The project was expected to be completed in winter 2008-09, but has run out of cash to continue construction at the pace necessary to meet that time frame.
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/05/26/story6.html

According to the Phoenix Business Journal, 40 of 171 units are reserved in tower one. Zero units are reserved in tower two.
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  #1782  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 12:58 AM
HX_Guy HX_Guy is offline
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Damn, that is crazy, I guess the 35 units sold we heard about recently was accurate.

This market and economy is sounding worse and worse by the day...it's going to be absolutely amazing if other big projects, namely Cityscape, are still able to move forward and build something (and by something I mean the residential part of the condo/hotel tower...I believe they will still build the office tower and retail).
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  #1783  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 6:21 PM
ciweiss ciweiss is offline
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I agree. I think commercial development will continue but I imagine residential will slow down. The prices will have to come down for people to pay 350-400K for a small studio/1 bedroom in this economy. Its to bad though because I love seeing these building going up. If this article is correct then I believe other projects such as Mosaic and Onyx will not happen. Or no time soon anyway. So what happens to tower two if you cannot even finish selling tower one? Turn them into rentals? Some of the wealthier ASU students could probably afford that. I see them driving their dads Hummers and BMW's. Of course if you bought in tower one would you want to see renters in tower two? probably not. Of course how would they cover the HOA? Of course if gas goes up to 5 - 6 dollers a gallon these downtown developments will still make more since then commuting from QC. Even with their high prices.
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  #1784  
Old Posted May 24, 2008, 11:16 PM
SunDevil SunDevil is offline
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What I will never understand is the push to turn apartments into condos in Tempe. Students don't buy, very few might but that is rare. Students rent and there are some 30k to 40k students at ASU Tempe that don't live on campus. It's not as though these students are going to suddenly buy up condos, they will just move to an apartment building that is willing to take their money every month.

I had friends driven out of 2 apartment complexes because the owners wanted to turn them into condos, right there we are looking at something like 150 condos on the market and I'm sure these weren't the only conversions. It's no wonder that Centerpoint can't sell condos at that price when there are cheaper condos already open just a short bus ride (maybe even the free shuttle, Orbit) from light rail, asu, and mill ave. In fact it's any wonder that any place is able to sell condos in Tempe.

I'm probably wrong about that last line and some one will prove it, it's just my observation from when I lived there a year ago.
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  #1785  
Old Posted May 25, 2008, 7:24 PM
PC2001 PC2001 is offline
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I knew it!They're lacking funding awright. My next prediction is that they will go onsale. Uh-oh, here comes the condo vultures.
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  #1786  
Old Posted May 25, 2008, 11:01 PM
ciweiss ciweiss is offline
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Latest from the East Valley Tribune

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/117080


Economy shakes out Tempe development projects
Comments 2| Recommend 0
Garin Groff, Tribune
Two years after one big condo tower got the green light in Tempe, the site remains a fenced-off dirt lot. Just down University Drive from that site, a larger cluster of towers has yet to rise more than a year after the city signed off on that ritzy development.

Yet developers opened the sales office Thursday on a 26-story lakefront condo tower they plan to start building this summer.

Click to see the status on some of the major projects in Tempe

And builders are all but falling over themselves to construct hotels on the lake and downtown.

The mix of stalled projects and bullish approaches to other developments in Tempe has left city officials and builders struggling to grasp just how the volatile economy is affecting the community.

The consensus is some of the planned luxury condo towers won't sell in today's economy and will have to wait years for demand to rebound. But the demand for office space, hotel rooms and certain condos is strong enough to still draw massive investment to the community.

Tempe Mayor Hugh Hallman, who holds an economics degree, expressed exasperation at the idea that some delays could jeopardize the larger vision for a denser, more cosmopolitan community.

"The real story is: My God! - people are still investing hundreds of millions of dollars in Tempe," Hallman said.

Builders would have backed out long ago if they didn't have confidence, he said.

Some city-approved projects won't ever happen, Hallman acknowledged, but only because some "bottom-feeders" structured unrealistic transactions that unfairly tarnish the reputation of other projects.

"The silly deals are going to shake out," Hallman said.

City officials and developers will only privately speculate at what deals they consider silly or realistic. But they say some condo projects will have to wait to break ground.

"You can't sugarcoat it," said Chris Salamone, Tempe's community development manager. "We're in for a rough year, but I think Tempe will rebound sooner than others."

One of the earliest plans to get approval but not rise from the ground is Mosaic, a condo tower with a Whole Foods slated for University Drive and Ash Avenue.

The construction permit was about to expire two years after it won approval, but the city granted a one-year extension recently.

The developer hopes to begin work soon, zoning attorney Charles Huellmantel said, adding the city needs to review more building plans before construction can begin. Various city officials have considered that project solid despite delays.

Work on one of Tempe's grandest projects is far enough away that Tempe will pave the site this summer to provide temporary parking. The University Square project won approval in 2006 for three towers of condos, hotels and offices, but the developer will let the city park cars there until it makes a go of it. A representative for the project did not return a call for comment.

Developers are revamping some major projects. The developer of an Apache Boulevard project called Campus Edge has delayed construction while converting it to apartments for college students. The building will move ahead despite economic woes, said Chris Anaradian, Tempe's development services manager.

"By no means are we having people withdraw their interest from Tempe," he said.

Some developers deny the economy has triggered any significant delays. But some acknowledge financial considerations.

The Lumina Tempe condo and hotel project was supposed to begin early this year but will wait until fall or winter. The later start should mean new condos will go up for sale by the time demand improves, said Brian Sciutto, a sales director.

"It puts us out farther in the correction of the market," he said.

About 25 percent of 245 condos are sold, and owner Constellation Property Group doesn't see the need to lower prices in the two-tower project, Sciutto said.

Two major condo projects are open now or about to open, Bridgeview and Centerpoint Condominiums.

Bridgeview at Hayden Ferry Lakeside opened in February and still needs to sell 56 of 104 condos. That's below expectations, said sales manager Bob Normile, who added that only 10 units would remain now in a normal economy.

Several forces have collided at once and hurt the condo market, said Randy Levin, the project manager for Hayden Ferry Lakeside. The credit crisis has left some buyers unable to get loans. Others can't sell their existing homes. And the supply of condos has surged past demand.

"What's going on now is kind of a cleansing process," Levin said. "You have to ask yourself, were there really too many condos that were put on the board here? Was that too much all at one time?"

Levin doesn't see any fatal flaws in other condo projects and figures buyers will pay to live in Tempe, even if it takes longer than bullish developers had expected.

Woes in the condo market delayed a hotel/condo project at Hayden Ferry Lakeside. A Le Meridien hotel with some condos was supposed to open by year's end but hasn't broken ground.

Lenders demanded a hotel-only project, Levin said, which forced a new design. A new plan and new hotel operator will come forth in a few weeks and construction should start soon, he said.

Meanwhile, Levin said "insatiable" demand helped lease out all but half of one story of a 12-story office tower that opened in February at Hayden Ferry Lakeside. Centerpoint Condominiums is set to open one tower in July and another by year's end. About 25 percent of the first tower is sold, said Ken Losch, a principal in Avenue Communities.

Sales are increasing, he said, and will boom in a few months once visitors can see city lights from the top of the tower and experience upscale restaurants that will open this fall.

Losch figures the economy has bottomed out and said buyers must see a few months of improvement to feel confident.

"People need to see a little bit of that bottom in the rear view mirror," he said.

At least one developer expects to start work in a sluggish economy in the hope of opening when the condo market improves.

Onyx Tempe expects to start building a 26-story tower on Tempe Town Lake in four months. It opened a sales center Thursday and has pre-sales on 25 percent of units, said Patrick Tice, vice president of sales. The developer has been raising prices, he said, because it counts on a strong market when the tower is done in 30 months.

"We're going full speed ahead," Tice said.
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  #1787  
Old Posted May 26, 2008, 12:06 AM
ciweiss ciweiss is offline
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SunDevil - You are correct. I think there might be a few parents that can drop 300K on a condo but not many. Where as a converted condo for 150K would attract a few more. But once again I don't think there would be to many student/parent buyers. I think all those apartments should stay apartments. Why convert in this market. As far as Centerpoint condo I think those will sell but it will take time and perhaps some slight price correction. At least from the EVT article it sounds like Mosaic and Onyx are not dead which is good news. I am glad that those projects still might happen. DT Tempe is in desperate need of a nearby grocery store. The Mosaic woud provide that. There is nothing nearby at all.
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  #1788  
Old Posted May 26, 2008, 1:55 PM
tempedude tempedude is offline
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Good to hear that Onyx Tower may possibly begin construction in 4 months. I have had a feeling all along that this thing was going to move forward. Its in a super prime location.

Talking about apartment to condo conversions, I have noticed that some of the complexes that went condo have already converted back to "luxury" apartment rentals. (A particular complex on Broadway comes to mind right away.) They should have stayed as rentals anyway...the whole condo craze got way out of control in Tempe IMHO. It is/was a prime example of supply exceeding demand.

Last edited by tempedude; May 26, 2008 at 2:59 PM.
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  #1789  
Old Posted May 26, 2008, 3:31 PM
SunDevil SunDevil is offline
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Originally Posted by tempedude View Post
Good to hear that Onyx Tower may possibly begin construction in 4 months. I have had a feeling all along that this thing was going to move forward. Its in a super prime location.

Talking about apartment to condo conversions, I have noticed that some of the complexes that went condo have already converted back to "luxury" apartment rentals. (A particular complex on Broadway comes to mind right away.) They should have stayed as rentals anyway...the whole condo craze got way out of control in Tempe IMHO. It is/was a prime example of supply exceeding demand.
that's good to hear. btw, the apt to condo to apt your talking about on Broadway, is it Villa Real? that was one of the complexes that one of my friends was effectively kicked out of due to a conversion.
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  #1790  
Old Posted May 26, 2008, 4:05 PM
tempedude tempedude is offline
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Originally Posted by SunDevil View Post
btw, the apt to condo to apt your talking about on Broadway, is it Villa Real? that was one of the complexes that one of my friends was effectively kicked out of due to a conversion.
Yes. The name sure sounds right, I am 99.9% positive. There are so many complexes in Tempe that keeping track of the names gets confusing at times as you know.
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  #1791  
Old Posted May 26, 2008, 5:30 PM
ciweiss ciweiss is offline
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You know the more I think about it why doesn't Centerpoint just make a hotel out of Tower 2 until the market bounces back. The reason I say this is the area needs hotel room/conference space and Avenue communites was already going to put a hotel in their anyways - after they bulldoze the theater. This way they can make money with the hotel and once housing bounces back they can just build tower 3 and/or 4 as condos again or convert tower 2 back into a hotel. Or something else entirely. I still think they need more entertainment DT Tempe. I went to Tempe Marketplace and that place is hoping. You have to park pretty deep over there on the weekend. Yes the people in tower 1 would not be happy but at least their HOA would not skyrocket because tower 2 was empty. And hotel guests may be better neighbors then college kids with parties. Course I live in Hayden Square it and it is awesome to roll out to the pool and seeing the ASU girls lounging around in their skimpy bikinis Besides there is demand right now for hotel space and they can fullfill that right now.

One last soapbox topic. Any of you guys been up to Portland Oregon. You can can roll into one of the McMenamins bar/theators and grab a beer and a burger and catch a cult classic like StarWars. You pay a doller or two to get in and drink beer and enjoy a movie. This area so needs something like that. OK, I'm jumping off my soapbox.




http://www.mcmenamins.com/
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  #1792  
Old Posted May 26, 2008, 7:13 PM
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HooverDam HooverDam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciweiss View Post
One last soapbox topic. Any of you guys been up to Portland Oregon. You can can roll into one of the McMenamins bar/theators and grab a beer and a burger and catch a cult classic like StarWars. You pay a doller or two to get in and drink beer and enjoy a movie. This area so needs something like that. OK, I'm jumping off my soapbox.

http://www.mcmenamins.com/
When I was in college in StL, they had a great place like this called the Moolah. Its was a beautifal old Shrine auditorium, it also had a bowling alley!

http://www.stlouiscinemas.com/moolah/



I'd kill for something like that in Phoenix. I'd built it if I won the lottery. I wish I could sit Dan Harkins down and convince him to quit (or at least don't do it exclusively) building suburban, boring theaters in places like the Tempe Marketplace, and build more unique stuff.

With the Fox and Cine Capri both gone, Phoenix desperately needs a movie palace. The new Cine Capri out at Scottsdale 101 (and I assume the one in Tempe, though I havent been) is nice, but heartless. The big screen, sound, et cetera is nice, but otherwise it feels like any other megaplex.
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  #1793  
Old Posted May 26, 2008, 8:48 PM
ciweiss ciweiss is offline
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^^^
That is cool Hooverdam. I will have to check it out if I am ever in the area. A place like that would fit well in DT Tempe, Old town Scottsdale etc. Your right - the cookie cutter strip malls gotta go. These strip mall architects could not find character or something unique if it bit them in the @ss.

I too would build (or retrofit a preexisting building) my own if I had the coin to do so. It would be a huge hit for the 20-50 year old crowd. And no Snottsdale dinner theator tuxedo crowd. I'm talking jeans/tshirt /Microbeer (eg. 4 peaks) /wings/pizza etc.

I will put forth the suggestion to Dan Harkins if I can find an address for him and perhaps the good people at 4 Peaks. That would be a good combo right there. Let Dan handle the movies and 4 Peaks handle the beer. Heck - they could even just roll the kegs over .
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  #1794  
Old Posted May 26, 2008, 11:33 PM
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Sekkle Sekkle is offline
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There used to be a theater on Ray & Kyrene in Chandler/Tempe that sold beer & wine and showed indie-type films. I guess it didn't do too well, though, because it closed probably a year after it opened (2004-2005ish I think). But yeah, those McMenamins places are cool. There are several others in the Portland area, too (i.e. not owned by McMenamins). Some have older movies, cult classics, etc and others have movies that are in between theater and video/dvd - like a couple months old.
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  #1795  
Old Posted May 27, 2008, 4:33 PM
HX_Guy HX_Guy is offline
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http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/117080

Economy shakes out Tempe development projects
By Garin Groff
May 24, 2008
Tribune

GOING UP: The Centerpointe Condominiums are set to open one tower in July and another by year's end. About 25 percent of the first tower is sold.

Two years after one big condo tower got the green light in Tempe, the site remains a fenced-off dirt lot. Just down University Drive from that site, a larger cluster of towers has yet to rise more than a year after the city signed off on that ritzy development.

Yet developers opened the sales office Thursday on a 26-story lakefront condo tower they plan to start building this summer.

And builders are all but falling over themselves to construct hotels on the lake and downtown.

The mix of stalled projects and bullish approaches to other developments in Tempe has left city officials and builders struggling to grasp just how the volatile economy is affecting the community.

The consensus is some of the planned luxury condo towers won't sell in today's economy and will have to wait years for demand to rebound. But the demand for office space, hotel rooms and certain condos is strong enough to still draw massive investment to the community.

Tempe Mayor Hugh Hallman, who holds an economics degree, expressed exasperation at the idea that some delays could jeopardize the larger vision for a denser, more cosmopolitan community.

"The real story is: My God! - people are still investing hundreds of millions of dollars in Tempe," Hallman said.

Builders would have backed out long ago if they didn't have confidence, he said.

Some city-approved projects won't ever happen, Hallman acknowledged, but only because some "bottom-feeders" structured unrealistic transactions that unfairly tarnish the reputation of other projects.

"The silly deals are going to shake out," Hallman said.

City officials and developers will only privately speculate at what deals they consider silly or realistic. But they say some condo projects will have to wait to break ground.

"You can't sugarcoat it," said Chris Salamone, Tempe's community development manager. "We're in for a rough year, but I think Tempe will rebound sooner than others."

One of the earliest plans to get approval but not rise from the ground is Mosaic, a condo tower with a Whole Foods slated for University Drive and Ash Avenue.

The construction permit was about to expire two years after it won approval, but the city granted a one-year extension recently.

The developer hopes to begin work soon, zoning attorney Charles Huellmantel said, adding the city needs to review more building plans before construction can begin. Various city officials have considered that project solid despite delays.

Work on one of Tempe's grandest projects is far enough away that Tempe will pave the site this summer to provide temporary parking. The University Square project won approval in 2006 for three towers of condos, hotels and offices, but the developer will let the city park cars there until it makes a go of it. A representative for the project did not return a call for comment.

Developers are revamping some major projects. The developer of an Apache Boulevard project called Campus Edge has delayed construction while converting it to apartments for college students. The building will move ahead despite economic woes, said Chris Anaradian, Tempe's development services manager.

"By no means are we having people withdraw their interest from Tempe," he said.

Some developers deny the economy has triggered any significant delays. But some acknowledge financial considerations.

The Lumina Tempe condo and hotel project was supposed to begin early this year but will wait until fall or winter. The later start should mean new condos will go up for sale by the time demand improves, said Brian Sciutto, a sales director.

"It puts us out farther in the correction of the market," he said.

About 25 percent of 245 condos are sold, and owner Constellation Property Group doesn't see the need to lower prices in the two-tower project, Sciutto said.

Two major condo projects are open now or about to open, Bridgeview and Centerpoint Condominiums.

Bridgeview at Hayden Ferry Lakeside opened in February and still needs to sell 56 of 104 condos. That's below expectations, said sales manager Bob Normile, who added that only 10 units would remain now in a normal economy.

Several forces have collided at once and hurt the condo market, said Randy Levin, the project manager for Hayden Ferry Lakeside. The credit crisis has left some buyers unable to get loans. Others can't sell their existing homes. And the supply of condos has surged past demand.

"What's going on now is kind of a cleansing process," Levin said. "You have to ask yourself, were there really too many condos that were put on the board here? Was that too much all at one time?"

Levin doesn't see any fatal flaws in other condo projects and figures buyers will pay to live in Tempe, even if it takes longer than bullish developers had expected.

Woes in the condo market delayed a hotel/condo project at Hayden Ferry Lakeside. A Le Meridien hotel with some condos was supposed to open by year's end but hasn't broken ground.

Lenders demanded a hotel-only project, Levin said, which forced a new design. A new plan and new hotel operator will come forth in a few weeks and construction should start soon, he said.

Meanwhile, Levin said "insatiable" demand helped lease out all but half of one story of a 12-story office tower that opened in February at Hayden Ferry Lakeside. Centerpoint Condominiums is set to open one tower in July and another by year's end. About 25 percent of the first tower is sold, said Ken Losch, a principal in Avenue Communities.

Sales are increasing, he said, and will boom in a few months once visitors can see city lights from the top of the tower and experience upscale restaurants that will open this fall.

Losch figures the economy has bottomed out and said buyers must see a few months of improvement to feel confident.

"People need to see a little bit of that bottom in the rear view mirror," he said.

At least one developer expects to start work in a sluggish economy in the hope of opening when the condo market improves.

Onyx Tempe expects to start building a 26-story tower on Tempe Town Lake in four months. It opened a sales center Thursday and has pre-sales on 25 percent of units, said Patrick Tice, vice president of sales. The developer has been raising prices, he said, because it counts on a strong market when the tower is done in 30 months.

"We're going full speed ahead," Tice said.




Click to see the status on some of the major projects in Tempe
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/page/image?filename=images/photos/2008/05/24/84wv3x7q.gif
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  #1796  
Old Posted May 27, 2008, 5:47 PM
HX_Guy HX_Guy is offline
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What is the tower crane for in this webcam image?

http://63.134.198.162/Transitimage.asp
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  #1797  
Old Posted May 27, 2008, 5:58 PM
tempedude tempedude is offline
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Originally Posted by HX_Guy View Post
What is the tower crane for in this webcam image?

http://63.134.198.162/Transitimage.asp
For whatever reason, I can't see the webcam image you are talking about. My guess though...is if it is along Mill Ave. or in the downtown Tempe area...the tower crane would be for the Tempe Gateway project next to US Airways. The tower went up just around a week to two weeks ago.

Edit: Is this the crane you are talking about? If so, thats the one for Tempe Gateway... See crane in photo in background, beyond the transit center.

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  #1798  
Old Posted May 27, 2008, 6:09 PM
HX_Guy HX_Guy is offline
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Yea that's it.

What are the specs on the Tempe Gateway project?
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  #1799  
Old Posted May 27, 2008, 6:25 PM
tempedude tempedude is offline
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^^^I am not really sure what all the fine details are about the project. I don't think the tower is going to be excetionally tall...maybe 10+ floors, and office and retail space.

Here is a link to what I know about it. maybe someone else knows more, or can get additional details.

http://www.tempe.gov/Maps/DevProjectDetails.aspx?LocationID=5667bbef-9350-4295-84fe-b8eead70964b
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  #1800  
Old Posted May 28, 2008, 2:54 PM
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sundevilgrad sundevilgrad is offline
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Just an FYI... One of the main reasons that no condos are selling, even at er price points, is that 2 or 3 of the nation's largest mortgage insurers won't insure mortgages of condos in distressed markets. I'm pretty sure that anyway you slice it, the Valley fits the bill of a distressed market.

Expect many of these projects to go offline. Whether they're offices or hotels or condos (are you freaking insane?). The commercial real estate market typically lags the residential market by about 2 years. If that assumption holds true, and all signs are pointing to yes, it's about summer 2006 in commercial construction sector. Look out below! A lot of these developers will go bankrupt and we'll probably see some unfinished projects sitting around for a couple of years.

The real time-bombs in the economy haven't even gone off yet. Alt-A/prime loans and Commercial loans will make the subprime fiasco and credit crunch feel like walks in the park.
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