Canadian Federal Election

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Come on. No one is denying a national identity, nor does a healthy reckoning with a country's past sins preclude national pride (though I agree that in some circles, historical evils and present-day prejudices are wielded as proof that Canada is somehow beyond saving, a hopelessly corrupt colonial instution--but I have certainly never heard Trudeau say anything like that).

COVID restrictions lasted for like, a year. People very badly need to get over their hurt feelings about engaging in a collective effort to save lives, which is now getting to be pretty far in the rearview.

Cost of living, well, yeah, I get that. Too bad Poilievre is mostly good at peddling grievances over that, and appears to have very few practical solutions.

He said as soon as he took office that Canada is the first “post national” state. He said totalitarian China was the country he admired the most.

COVID travel restrictions lasted almost 3 years, from March 2020 to October 2022, over a year after vaccines were widely available and saving lives was a plausible objective. If you’re in your 20s that is a good chunk of your adult life.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I'm not sure how the topic of 'access to healthcare' ended up featuring on the federal election thread. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be the basis of most elector's voting intentions.

Read the thread - I wasn't the one that brought it up, just took issue with it being some sort of great Canadian advantage.

The availability of a regular doctor is only one part of the Commonwealth Fund survey (that you are referencing). In the more comprehensive study "The United States ranks last overall. The three top-performing countries in 2024 are Australia, the Netherlands, and the United Kingdom."

There are caveats about the conclusions, as with any survey. The data for Canada come from a telephone survey of 1,000 Canadians. The report also notes "Readers should use caution in drawing conclusions when comparing countries’ overall performance: each country has areas of higher and lower performance, and all countries have something to learn from one another.

"The U.S. continues to be in a class by itself in the underperformance of its health care sector. While the other nine countries differ in the details of their systems and in their performance on domains, unlike the U.S., they all have found a way to meet their residents’ most basic health care needs, including universal /coverage."

For example, yes, 99% of UK residents are registered with a GP, because the way the NHS works generally encourages that. Most GP practices accept registration. But the average GP in the UK has twice as many registered patients as the average Canadian GP, so the availability of an appointment to see a doctor in many parts of the country reflects that difference.

Which is not to say that provinces don't need to do more to improve the availability of primary healthcare, and to ensure there is adequate GP coverage. It doesn't seem to be a critical federal election issue though.

They're using some sort of hybrid indicator to measure access that combines things like availability and affordability. Which is fine. I never said the American system is great. Just that ours isnt either and, most critically: for the ones that are struggling to access it, the quality of the system is moot.

We still rank near the bottom WRT to access in the hybrid measure that they developed. Odd to see Australia stumble that much - while there's a cost to health care there, it's not a particularly onerous one and they have a very high % of people with regular access to a care provider. It seems like they're weighing the affordability part of access very heavily in that metric. Overall their system does very well in this study and they probably are the country to model ourselves after (which can be said about a lot of things in this country TBH).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Come on. No one is denying a national identity, nor does a healthy reckoning with a country's past sins preclude national pride (though I agree that in some circles, historical evils and present-day prejudices are wielded as proof that Canada is somehow beyond saving, a hopelessly corrupt colonial instution--but I have certainly never heard Trudeau say anything like that).

COVID restrictions lasted for like, a year. People very badly need to get over their hurt feelings about engaging in a collective effort to save lives, which is now getting to be pretty far in the rearview.

Cost of living, well, yeah, I get that. Too bad Poilievre is mostly good at peddling grievances over that, and appears to have very few practical solutions.

COVID restrictions lasted for about three years in some form. The pandemic started in the winter of 2020 and there were restrictions to some degree still in effect in the winter of 2022. That's why "we" (sic) had the convoy. Remember?

As for Canadian pride, Justin Trudeau himself basically told the New York Times that Canada was a post-national state with no true identity of its own.

Not saying Pierre Poilievre is the answer by any stretch, but let's at least acknowledge that this stuff happened.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by acottawa

He said as soon as he took office that Canada is the first “post national” state. He said totalitarian China was the country he admired the most.

COVID travel restrictions lasted almost 3 years, from March 2020 to October 2022, over a year after vaccines were widely available and saving lives was a plausible objective. If you’re in your 20s that is a good chunk of your adult life.

Trudeau said: “There's a level of admiration I actually have for China. Their basic dictatorship is actually allowing them to turn their economy around on a dime.”

This was a (very) badly phrased way of saying he admired the ability to pivot their economy quickly. It’s a misspeak from 12 years ago; not something he should wear forever. I don’t even especially like Trudeau, but it’s time to let stuff like this go.

As for travel restrictions, it was about 2.5 years, during which travellers had to quarantine for 14 days. This is not some tremendous hardship; it was an act of modest personal sacrifice to control the spread of the worst pandemic in 100 years. I’m pretty disinterested in the whingeing of anyone, young or old, who feels this was somehow an act of government oppression.

I live in Nova Scotia, where for a long period of time we experienced the most severe travel restrictions—I couldn’t even travel across the provincial border to visit family in New Brunswick without a 14-day isolation. I don’t feel any lingering bitterness over this.

I actually think things DID overreach a bit, but there was also a tremendous amount of uncertainty. The fact that some people haven’t moved on from being inconvenienced, essentially, is very telling about the state of politics in Canada.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by acottawa

There are 3 pages of apologies on the PM’s website, and those are just the ones they wrote a news release for.

https://www.canada.ca/en/privy-council/p...x&st1rt=0&langs=eng&cdn=pm&default_text=


He gives speeches like this at the UN, 90 percent of which is about how crappy Canada is.

https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/speeches/20...ress-72th-session-united-nations-general

Quite the weird glasses you're reading those through. This is a fair and reasonable sample:

"Canada is not a wonderland, free of the challenges you face.

We face many of the same challenges that you do.

Canada remains a work in progress.

So I want to tell you about the Canadian experience because for all the mistakes we’ve made, we remain hopeful."

[dleung]

Lol there's still people pretending that the kkkonvoy was about covid? Rather than the astroturf campaign against JT (50% funded by US republicans no less) that it is?

I didn't realize acottawa went full maple-MAGA... sane people don't equate "our country needs to make right our past mistakes" with "I hate our country"

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by dleung

Lol there's still people pretending that the kkkonvoy was about covid? Rather than the astroturf campaign against JT (50% funded by US republicans no less) that it is?

I didn't realize acottawa went full maple-MAGA... sane people don't equate "our country needs to make right our past mistakes" with "I hate our country"

I saw the Freedom Convoy for what it was- a bunch of entitled rednecks, and White Supremacists, that were likely funded to a great extent by Russia and the MAGA types in America.

I also noticed that the same people, who declared themselves the most "Patriotic Canadians" during the trucker convoy three years ago, are the same people who are in favour of joining the United States.

[svlt]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

I saw the Freedom Convoy for what it was- a bunch of entitled rednecks, and White Supremacists, that were likely funded to a great extent by Russia and the MAGA types in America.

I also noticed that the same people, who declared themselves the most "Patriotic Canadians" during the trucker convoy three years ago, are the same people who are in favour of joining the United States.

All the more disgusting that these guys co-opted the intent of the Canadian flag - to signal actual, true patriotism and defense of the country.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by acottawa

There are 3 pages of apologies on the PM’s website, and those are just the ones they wrote a news release for.

https://www.canada.ca/en/privy-council/p...x&st1rt=0&langs=eng&cdn=pm&default_text=


He gives speeches like this at the UN, 90 percent of which is about how crappy Canada is.

https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/speeches/20...ress-72th-session-united-nations-general

What's wrong with acknowledging errors made and evil things done in the past?

Canada has been among the best countries to live in because we actually recognize the wrongs of the past and don't try to pretend they didn't happen. JT wasn't the first PM to issue an apology yet some people act as though he was.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by acottawa

He said as soon as he took office that Canada is the first “post national” state. He said totalitarian China was the country he admired the most.

COVID travel restrictions lasted almost 3 years, from March 2020 to October 2022, over a year after vaccines were widely available and saving lives was a plausible objective. If you’re in your 20s that is a good chunk of your adult life.

OMG seriously? You're complaining about what JT said back in 2015? We all know what he said and he won't be PM for much longer.

The travel restrictions for COVID we had weren't unique to Canada. How does it make any difference if people are in their 20s or 40s like me when it happened? It wouldn't have made any difference for me if I was either of those age categories.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Loco101

What's wrong with acknowledging errors made and evil things done in the past?

Canada has been among the best countries to live in because we actually recognize the wrongs of the past and don't try to pretend they didn't happen. JT wasn't the first PM to issue an apology yet some people act as though he was.

Canada’s livability has nothing to do with Justin’s endless sniveling and apologizing.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Canada’s livability has nothing to do with Justin’s endless sniveling and apologizing.

That's your opinion.

Isn't it the stereotype that Canadians apologize a lot? Maybe JT was just being a typical Canadian?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Loco101

The travel restrictions for COVID we had weren't unique to Canada. How does it make any difference if people are in their 20s or 40s like me when it happened? It wouldn't have made any difference for me if I was either of those age categories.

This was the problem with Covid restrictions. The boomer suburban dads imagining how easy it was to just stay at home and BBQ. Besides the fact a year is a much much longer time period to a 20 something, the spring break trips or gap year after undergrad are things you can never get back. This isn't your week package tour to Cancun you missed out on so instead rented a cottage in the Laurentians (for 4X the normal price).

The travel restrictions were somewhat unique for places with endemic Covid and access to vaccines. But being unique doesn't change the impact it had on people and their political attitudes.

[casper]

Originally Posted by acottawa

He said as soon as he took office that Canada is the first “post national” state.

This is a discussion for academics. From a pragmatic perspective, Canada is a country with national traits. There are groups within the country that have their own cultures that are somehow interwoven with the national culture.

It was a stupid comment for him to make. He should have left this up to sociology professors and grad students to debate.

Originally Posted by acottawa

He said totalitarian China was the country he admired the most.

About 20 years ago I did some consulting in China on a large scale science project. Visited several times over the construction phase. It was an eye opener. The Chinese are able to get things done very quickly in comparison to Canada. The way they work with contractors, the way the treat workers and implement worker safety is very different than Canada. In Canada we would have major ethics issues with how they do thing.

Trudeau is correct they are able to get stuff done quickly. He is wrong in that there is nothing to admire about how they cut corners to do it.

Originally Posted by acottawa

COVID travel restrictions lasted almost 3 years, from March 2020 to October 2022, over a year after vaccines were widely available and saving lives was a plausible objective. If you’re in your 20s that is a good chunk of your adult life.

This was mostly a provincial thing. In BC for the last two years, restrictions went on and off purely driven by computer modeling around the number of people in ER and ICU. If space was not critical restrictions would be reduced. If space became critical restrictions were tightened.

As for the feds, the Canadian restrictions were removed long before the US entry restrictions were removed.

All said he is on his way out. He did some things well others were problematic. I think the worse thing about JT that got under the skin of a lot of people was the "Holier-than-thou" attitude on the social justice issues. He should have just implemented them in a low key way and moved on.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

This was the problem with Covid restrictions. The boomer suburban dads imagining how easy it was to just stay at home and BBQ. Besides the fact a year is a much much longer time period to a 20 something, the spring break trips or gap year after undergrad are things you can never get back. This isn't your week package tour to Cancun you missed out on so instead rented a cottage in the Laurentians (for 4X the normal price).

The travel restrictions were somewhat unique for places with endemic Covid and access to vaccines. But being unique doesn't change the impact it had on people and their political attitudes.

I really don’t want to be glib, because the pandemic was hard on everyone in different ways, but I’m imagining telling my grandfathers—who spent their early 20s crammed into tiny RCAF planes, flying nighttime missions over the Atlantic and being shot at by Nazis—that missing spring break was a trauma too far for Gen Z.

To be clear I believe that this actually did shift people’s political perceptions and allegiances. I just think that’s astonishing.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Loco101

What's wrong with acknowledging errors made and evil things done in the past?

Canada has been among the best countries to live in because we actually recognize the wrongs of the past and don't try to pretend they didn't happen. JT wasn't the first PM to issue an apology yet some people act as though he was.

Whether or not it is a good idea to spend 90% of your speech complaining about your own country, the discussion was about polling showing young Canadians having little attachment to the country. This is a reason why.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I really don’t want to be glib, because the pandemic was hard on everyone in different ways, but I’m imagining telling my grandfathers—who spent their early 20s crammed into tiny RCAF planes, flying nighttime missions over the Atlantic and being shot at by Nazis—that missing spring break was a trauma too far for Gen Z.

To be clear I believe that this actually did shift people’s political perceptions and allegiances. I just think that’s astonishing.

That's being ridiculous. No one is comparing it to World War 2, but it's clear that one demographic had to sacrifice more during COVID while others sacrificed very little and mostly benefitted.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I really don’t want to be glib, because the pandemic was hard on everyone in different ways, but I’m imagining telling my grandfathers—who spent their early 20s crammed into tiny RCAF planes, flying nighttime missions over the Atlantic and being shot at by Nazis—that missing spring break was a trauma too far for Gen Z.

To be clear I believe that this actually did shift people’s political perceptions and allegiances. I just think that’s astonishing.

I just think it's astonishing that you're distilling a worldwide pandemic that killed millions of people down to "oh some kids missed spring break".

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I really don’t want to be glib, because the pandemic was hard on everyone in different ways, but I’m imagining telling my grandfathers—who spent their early 20s crammed into tiny RCAF planes, flying nighttime missions over the Atlantic and being shot at by Nazis—that missing spring break was a trauma too far for Gen Z.

To be clear I believe that this actually did shift people’s political perceptions and allegiances. I just think that’s astonishing.

This may sound weird, but the way things are going in the World, one can make a legitimate argument that North America has had such a high quality of life for so long, that through generations, it's made us selfish and entitled.

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times”

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

This may sound weird, but the way things are going in the World, one can make a legitimate argument that North America has had such a high quality of life for so long, that through generations, it's made us selfish and entitled.

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times”

The irony of that phrase is that the rough guys (not you) who often love to cite it today don't realize they are the weak men bringing us hard times.