Canadian Federal Election

[someone123]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Weird take when you quote an article that shows how the Province is addressing the issue and that it's working.

It's summed up in the article:

Family physicians in British Columbia say the province is finally starting to make progress on its doctor shortage, but say whoever is elected in Saturday’s provincial election is still facing a “massive” crisis in the primary health care system.

I'd argue the statistic alone doesn't fully capture the dysfunction. You should not have to call different clinics in the first place with a random chance of getting lucky; there should be a centralized system.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Seems like there is some real variation in here between people having one and not, and either nobody they know has one, or everybody does.

Presumably it depends on what demographic you belong to and whether you know people who were easily able to get a doctor or not (e.g. family in Vancouver that already had a doctor vs. newcomers arriving when the shortage was acute). It's not surprising that the average can be 10-20% but specific people might say 0% or 60%.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's summed up in the article:

But, it also says 800 new doctors are here and the list is dropping for the first time in a long time, 250,000 people found doctors, etc. etc.

Of course the Doctors of BC tagline will be "more money needed, this is a crisis!!!!".

There are all kinds of areas of healthcare where the money is not aligned with the results the government wants.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Weird take when you quote an article that shows how the Province is addressing the issue and that it's working.

I think the more important metric is how many people are looking and can't find a GP. If you asked me for most of my life if I had one, I'd say No, and be added to that statistic, but the reality was I wasn't looking for one and didn't care.

Seems like there is some real variation in here between people having one and not, and either nobody they know has one, or everybody does.

Anecdotally I stopped looking for a GP about a decade ago because the one I had was in Vancouver's West End and I live about an hour away, and I didn't have the mental capacity to even hunt for one. When we moved back to Canada 15 years ago my daughter didn't have one. I eventually put my and her names down on that registry and then completely forgot about it, and a couple of years ago (13 years after we moved back to Canada) the registry contacted me with an NP for my daughter, and luckily the NP was willing to take me on as a patient too.

My wife has an NP as well, but her NP went on parental leave and didn't have another GP or NP available to send her to, so she's technically got an NP but in practice doesn't.

Tracking the stats is kind of like tracking employment. A single unemployment rate doesn't capture the whole picture, because it doesn't capture people who are working three part-time jobs, it doesn't capture people who have given up looking. Similarly, a "this many people have a GP" stat doesn't capture the whole picture either.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by drew

Well obviously. But to me, it makes your point about the lack of a family doctor ring a bit hollow.

You want to have a family doctor - but because of where you live, that's apparently a problem. We have pointed out that several other larger cities in Canada have plenty of family doctors available - which means you probably could have a family doctor - but you are choosing not to. That's not a slight against you, obviously picking up and moving is a big life choice. But so is choosing to live somewhere that you apparently don't have access to basic medical services.

How do I say this politely? Your attitude is honestly gob smacking. Poor access to health care has been headline news for a while here in BC and whenever I visit Ontario or Quebec. Perhaps things are better in Manitoba, but the headlines I've found in cursory searches don't support that. It seems like you're just not paying attention because you personally haven't had any issues accessing health care. It's great that life is good for you, but that doesn't mean other people's problems dont exist.

And I don't know - what other cities have people demonstrated as having good access to GPs outside of Winnipeg?

You make it sound like I'm living in some podunk town in the middle of nowhere and expecting first class services. I live in the third largest city in the country. I've been on the official provincial registry to get a family doctor for 6 years. Warren, the other person who I've been responding to and who lives in the same city that I do, tried to help by giving me two clinics that he taught were accepting patients. He was wrong. I called them within 30 minutes (because I really would like to get a doctor) and both told me they are not accepting patients. I'm not surprised by this - I was fairly confident that he was wrong, since I've called dozens of clinics over the last few years and gotten the same response.

And the numbers back up all of this. We're at the bottom of the pack when it comes to health care access in developed countries. Only 86% of Canadians have regular access to primary care, compared to 87% for Americans, 94% for Australians, and 99% for the British and Dutch.

[Wigs]

I didn't have a family doctor for a number of years, so I understand what it's like to go without and rely on walk-in clinics or an urgent care centre. I lucked out when a local pharmacy transformed their building into a 2nd floor medical office above the pharmacy.

The new medical centre houses two family physician practices, optometrist office, Life Labs medical testing office, home healthcare/mobility department, and pharmacy all within one building

- Recent appt 10am
- Name was called into the office at 10:02am
- After a nurse (RPN?) took my height and weight, I was escorted to examination room. Saw my Doctor about 5 minutes later in exam room. Met with him about 15 minutes. He scheduled blood work and an ECG (heart issues run in my family).
- Was able to get blood work and ECG next door (same floor) at Life Labs
I waited maybe 4 minutes at Life Labs and was brought in to take my blood, went back to the front and asked about the ECG. Was told it would be a short wait. About 6 minutes later was escorted to a room where it was done.

Arrived at 9:55am, met my Doctor, got blood work and ECG next door and was out of the medical office building before 11:05am.

This is what it should be like.

theman23, I hope you are able to find a Doc in the near future.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

It is not always so easy to secure US residency depending on one's career.

I have a friend who moved to New York around 2010 or so and he is only a graphic designer, he got in on that special visa that they have, he said he just arrived and they did at the airport and he was in, he has since gotten his green card and bought a house in upstate New York, he lived in NYC and LA before settling back in NY state.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

That's true of all countries, even those with a supposedly strong indigenous culture. Hitler's war machine would never have lasted as long as it did if it weren't for millions of very compliant Vichy French.

Paradoxically, I think Canadians would lift more of a finger because, unlike France, a lot of our identity derives from being not-American, rather than an essential Canadian-ness.

You could be French and a fascist, but you can't really be a Canadian and an American.

Yer twisting my melon with that last sentence. Gonna be thinking about that one for a while.

[casper]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

But, it also says 800 new doctors are here and the list is dropping for the first time in a long time, 250,000 people found doctors, etc. etc.

Of course the Doctors of BC tagline will be "more money needed, this is a crisis!!!!".

There are all kinds of areas of healthcare where the money is not aligned with the results the government wants.

When I moved back to BC from Saskatchewan I did not have a GP for the longest time.

During COVID I needed to talk to a doctor and used the Telus Telehealth app to get a virtual doctor visit. When you set up a visit it is a different doctor every time. Ended up getting one that said, this is hard to diagnose over the video call, where do you live? Ended up doing a face-to-face meeting office visit at the end of it, he said, he was not taking new patients but to take me on.

While there are wait list, doctors do have discretion for who they take on. It may not be fair, but it is what it is.

Yes, we need more doctors. The new school at SFU is a start, but its going to take a few years before it starts to graduate new doctors.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Ooooft - https://bsky.app/profile/338canada.bsky.social/post/3lhwqsvadyc2j

Federal 🇨🇦 voting intentions from Léger -- With Mark Carney as LPC leader:

🔴LPC 37%
🔵CPC 37%
🟠NDP 12%
⚜️BQ 6%
🟢GPC 5%
🟣PPC 2%

→ 338canada.com/polls.htm

[Léger, February 7-10, 2025, n=1,595]

[Loco101]

Two most recent polls:

Nanos: https://nanos.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Political-Package-2025-02-07-FOR-RELEASE.pdf

CPC: 38.3%

LPC: 30.1%

NDP: 16.4%

BQ: 7.8%

GPC: 4.8%

PPC: 2.0%


-----------------------


Léger: https://leger360.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Leger-x-Canadian-Press-Federal-Politics_VF.pdf


CPC: 40%

LPC: 31%

NDP: 14%

BQ: 7%

GPC: 6%

PPC: 2%

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by theman23

Manitoba has the lowest per capita number of family doctors in the country, so either things are really really really bad in the sticks and drawing down the average or you're living in a bit of a bubble.

Strange. I've lived in Winnipeg, and both large cities in Alberta, and it never took me long to find a family doctor. Maybe you are not looking hard enough.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

Strange. I've lived in Winnipeg, and both large cities in Alberta, and it never took me long to find a family doctor. Maybe you are not looking hard enough.

Is that what we're going with now? The Dutch, Kiwis, British, Germans, Australians, Swiss, French, Swedes and Americans have better access to primary care because they look harder than Canadians?

Amazing the extent some people will go to handwave away any problems this country has.

[ToxiK]

Even is Americans have a place they can go to get healthcare doesn't mean they can afford to go every time they need to, or if they will have to declare bankruptcy after being sick.

It is like nothing is stopping you from buying a house, except money.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Two most recent polls:
Nanos: https://nanos.co/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Political-Package-2025-02-07-FOR-RELEASE.pdf

CPC: 38.3%
LPC: 30.1%
NDP: 16.4%
BQ: 7.8%
GPC: 4.8%
PPC: 2.0%
-----------------------
Léger: https://leger360.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Leger-x-Canadian-Press-Federal-Politics_VF.pdf

CPC: 40%
LPC: 31%
NDP: 14%
BQ: 7%
GPC: 6%
PPC: 2%

We now see where the huge swing in polls is coming from. Some just say who are you voting for and others ask about potential future leaders or otherwise point out that Trudeau is leaving. Clearly that is a game changer and there are some people not really aware of what is going on who are now more likely to at least consider the Liberals.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by theman23

Is that what we're going with now? The Dutch, Kiwis, British, Germans, Australians, Swiss, French, Swedes and Americans have better access to primary care because they look harder than Canadians?

Amazing the extent some people will go to handwave away any problems this country has.

I find it interesting that so many people have gone in so hard against you on what was a readily acknowledged huge long-term problem that almost everyone agreed on just a few months ago.

I guess it's kind of a warfare thing: if we're in a fight for our lives it's no time to openly admit to our weaknesses. Especially not relative to the enemy.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I find it interesting that so many people have gone in so hard against you on what was a readily acknowledged huge long-term problem that almost everyone agreed on just a few months ago.

Speaking just for myself, healthcare should not be a priority right now. Even before Trump, Canada's biggest achilles heel was the state of our economic competitiveness relative to our peer nations.

Right now, government spending should be focused on improving Canadian productivity, economic diversity and security. Social programs should be prioritized by how directly they support the above outcomes. That means things like universal daycare, school lunches and funding for STEM education make the cut, but I don't mind if a lot of healthcare initiatives are put on the backburner.

[samne]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Speaking just for myself, healthcare should not be a priority right now. Even before Trump, Canada's biggest achilles heel was the state of our economic competitiveness relative to our peer nations.

Right now, government spending should be focused on improving Canadian productivity, economic diversity and security. Social programs should be prioritized by how directly they support the above outcomes. That means things like universal daycare, school lunches and funding for STEM education make the cut, but I don't mind if a lot of healthcare initiatives are put on the backburner.

Would disagree that healthcare doesn't relate to productivity.

If you do not have access to proper healthcare, you may not be able to work and therefor not productive. An increasingly sick population is not helping the economy.

Sometimes I get the feeling the government would rather people just stay at home rather than go through the health system.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Speaking just for myself, healthcare should not be a priority right now. Even before Trump, Canada's biggest achilles heel was the state of our economic competitiveness relative to our peer nations.

Right now, government spending should be focused on improving Canadian productivity, economic diversity and security. Social programs should be prioritized by how directly they support the above outcomes. That means things like universal daycare, school lunches and funding for STEM education make the cut, but I don't mind if a lot of healthcare initiatives are put on the backburner.

Mostly agree, though I think healthcare mostly comes up these days not because it's something to be addressed (over, say, the economy), but because it's widely regarded as one of the "strategic advantages" Canada has over the US.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by theman23

Is that what we're going with now? The Dutch, Kiwis, British, Germans, Australians, Swiss, French, Swedes and Americans have better access to primary care because they look harder than Canadians?

Amazing the extent some people will go to handwave away any problems this country has.

I'm not sure how the topic of 'access to healthcare' ended up featuring on the federal election thread. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be the basis of most elector's voting intentions.

The availability of a regular doctor is only one part of the Commonwealth Fund survey (that you are referencing). In the more comprehensive study "The United States ranks last overall. The three top-performing countries in 2024 are Australia, the Netherlands, and the United Kingdom."

There are caveats about the conclusions, as with any survey. The data for Canada come from a telephone survey of 1,000 Canadians. The report also notes "Readers should use caution in drawing conclusions when comparing countries’ overall performance: each country has areas of higher and lower performance, and all countries have something to learn from one another.

"The U.S. continues to be in a class by itself in the underperformance of its health care sector. While the other nine countries differ in the details of their systems and in their performance on domains, unlike the U.S., they all have found a way to meet their residents’ most basic health care needs, including universal /coverage."

For example, yes, 99% of UK residents are registered with a GP, because the way the NHS works generally encourages that. Most GP practices accept registration. But the average GP in the UK has twice as many registered patients as the average Canadian GP, so the availability of an appointment to see a doctor in many parts of the country reflects that difference.

Which is not to say that provinces don't need to do more to improve the availability of primary healthcare, and to ensure there is adequate GP coverage. It doesn't seem to be a critical federal election issue though.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I'm not sure how the topic of 'access to healthcare' ended up featuring on the federal election thread. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be the basis of most elector's voting intentions.

Well, for starters the federal government which is accountable for transfers to the provinces for healthcare has hugely reduced its contributions to this sector since the 70s and 80s, to the point of virtual collapse, with the provinces having to pick up the slack.

So in that sense it is a federal political issue.