Cycling in the National Capital Region

[OTownandDown]

IF the radius were larger (which it looks like it may be at Laurier) then a small jog in the bike path is reasonable.

The intersection at Bay has a jog with a radius of about 3 feet, 90 degrees one way then the other, in the width of a sidewalk.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4pLd6PzFSDoGkxRj8

As it stands, I just take the jump, and then do my best to hop the next curb. At least the guy doing concrete finishing for the jog 'island' was nice enough to ramp the concrete blob to allow for a jump, and the snowplow has dealt with the other side until its now almost flat.

Like, this is stupid. I'm sorry, but its stupid. On a GREEN light, a cyclist should be allowed to travel at ANY speed through this intersection, including 30km/hr, with very low risk. If the intersection cannot be designed so that other vehicles and pedestrians won't be in the way, I shouldn't be punished with an insane, impossible corner. When travelling eastbound across the length of Laurier, I can use the hill starting at Bronson, and esentially coast all the way to Bank. I generally wait for 30 seconds at the top of the hill, until JUST the right moment in the streetlight cycle, and then shove off so I can hit all the greens and coast half way across downtown. I still do that, but I take a fun little jump at Bay each time, jostling my bike in the process. Occasionally a delivery van will try to kill me by pulling in front of me in the bike lane, but that's a different issue.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Like, this is stupid. I'm sorry, but its stupid. On a GREEN light, a cyclist should be allowed to travel at ANY speed through this intersection, including 30km/hr, with very low risk. If the intersection cannot be designed so that other vehicles and pedestrians won't be in the way, I shouldn't be punished with an insane, impossible corner.

Don't we want everyone to slow down at intersections? Regardless of design, it is pretty easy for an oblivious pedestrian (including a kid from the school up the block) to step onto the bike path. A bike hitting a pedestrian at 30 kmph wouldn't have a great outcome.

I commute by bike, but I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that cyclists shouldn't ever have to slow down for any reason, which seems to be a common view.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by phil235

Don't we want everyone to slow down at intersections? Regardless of design, it is pretty easy for an oblivious pedestrian (including a kid from the school up the block) to step onto the bike path. A bike hitting a pedestrian at 30 kmph wouldn't have a great outcome.

I commute by bike, but I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that cyclists shouldn't ever have to slow down for any reason, which seems to be a common view.

Do you slow down every time you cross an intersection at a green light? How about slow down enough to travel 6-feet in a perpendicular direction, before having to accelerate again to cross the intersection. My guess is no. Because NOBODY does that.

Why isn't this entire intersection raised to a speedbump, so the cars need to slow down the same amount? Cars can travel at 60km/hr along this road, no problemo.

Why isn't every intersection raised as a speedbump for this logic?

Why are cyclists to blame for a student being run into by a bike?

Yes, there was a major accident between a dump truck and a cyclist at this intersection. So the cyclists are to blame for not going slow? It sounds like 'she was asking for it'.

Just look at the image I posted. Its not even easy to WALK in that zig-zag pattern, rather than cycle. Its crazy. PLUS you're asking cyclists to turn AWAY from right turning automobile traffic before re-entering the intersection, therefore putting the onus on the driver to identify the cyclist and not hit them. Cyclists will be braking, looking at pedestrians, trying to turn twice 90 degrees without hitting curbs, and THEN will have to look over their shoulder behind them, all while travelling at speed, all in about a fraction of a second. Its ludicrous.

Edit: The girl in the white shoes in the google street view, like, I'll have to come down the bike path, mount the curb (which is quite a visual distraction, god help you if you're too close to the sidewalk curb and that poorly-edited pop-out sloped curb hits your pedals, ask me how I know), ring my bell so she steps back, then do a zig-zag to get across the intersection. The power pole blocks my view of the bike lane, so also god help any pedestrian happening to walk in the bike lane I'm about to barrel into. I'm zigging and zagging across the sidewalk right when I should be doing a shoulder-check for traffic travelling the same direction as me turning right.

I usually pop out of the bike lane about 10 cars back from the intersection and travel in the car lane through the intersection, and pop back in where the white car is further on. It saves a whole host of possible dangerous interactions with changes in elevation, street furniture, curbs, and pedestrians.

[LRTeverywhere]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Edit: The girl in the white shoes in the google street view, like, I'll have to come down the bike path, mount the curb (which is quite a visual distraction, god help you if you're too close to the sidewalk curb and that poorly-edited pop-out sloped curb hits your pedals, ask me how I know), ring my bell so she steps back, then do a zig-zag to get across the intersection. The power pole blocks my view of the bike lane, so also god help any pedestrian happening to walk in the bike lane I'm about to barrel into. I'm zigging and zagging across the sidewalk right when I should be doing a shoulder-check for traffic travelling the same direction as me turning right.

Just for some added context, the Bay st project was built before the new guidelines were in place and were using an interim set of guidelines. New facilities will not have a depressed curb at intersections where the cycle tracks meet the car traffic lanes. Also in the Bay project, that corner really shouldn't have needed a jog away from the corner since there is no right turn there for car traffic. That one absolutely should have been a straight like the ones southbound Bay. Overall the main problem for the Bay project (aside from the old design guidelines) is how constrained it is, the second northbound lane being removed (on this already very quiet street) would have allowed a lot more room for it to have been done properly.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by LRTeverywhere

Just for some added context, the Bay st project was built before the new guidelines were in place and were using an interim set of guidelines. New facilities will not have a depressed curb at intersections where the cycle tracks meet the car traffic lanes. Also in the Bay project, that corner really shouldn't have needed a jog away from the corner since there is no right turn there for car traffic. That one absolutely should have been a straight like the ones southbound Bay. Overall the main problem for the Bay project (aside from the old design guidelines) is how constrained it is, the second northbound lane being removed (on this already very quiet street) would have allowed a lot more room for it to have been done properly.

I think this summarizes most of the issues. A shallow flare to move cyclists away from the road is key, but most of the guidelines including the OTM specify a ratio for the taper back. Design constraints prohibit that here.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Do you slow down every time you cross an intersection at a green light? How about slow down enough to travel 6-feet in a perpendicular direction, before having to accelerate again to cross the intersection. My guess is no. Because NOBODY does that.

At a downtown intersection with lots of pedestrians and cyclists? Absolutely I slow down when I'm driving. I'm pretty confident that I am not alone.

Obviously the diversion in this case is more than is ideal, but I'm not seeing the perpendicular travel that you are talking about. It varies by corner, but it looks like about a 45 degree diversion to me. You'll have to slow down, but not make a right angle turn.

Why are cyclists to blame for a student being run into by a bike?

I think that this is a bit of a backwards way of looking at it. It isn't about blaming someone, it's about designing intersections to minimize damage if there is a conflict. These are elementary school kids we are talking about. We know they are prone to stepping out without looking, so we should design for that.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by phil235

At a downtown intersection with lots of pedestrians and cyclists? Absolutely I slow down when I'm driving. I'm pretty confident that I am not alone.

Obviously the diversion in this case is more than is ideal, but I'm not seeing the perpendicular travel that you are talking about. It varies by corner, but it looks like about a 45 degree diversion to me. You'll have to slow down, but not make a right angle turn.



I think that this is a bit of a backwards way of looking at it. It isn't about blaming someone, it's about designing intersections to minimize damage if there is a conflict. These are elementary school kids we are talking about. We know they are prone to stepping out without looking, so we should design for that.

You're absolutely right, cars should always slow down at downtown intersections. I always have my foot ready over the brake pedal when I go thru an intersection. However, on a clear green light at Laurier and Elgin, cars still travel at 50+km/hr, whereas cyclists travel at around 20km/hr. If these car speeds were lowered to a differential of only 10km/hr (say max 30km/hr thru the intersection), it would be much safer for cyclists and pedestrians. Its too bad we can't design for all cars to do that.

When I'm cycling, at plus/minus 15-20km/hr, I absolutely do not brake unless I have to... it takes exponentially more energy for me to accelerate from slow, rather than to coast and maintain speed. And yes I bike downtown with my hand on the brake. But I can brake in a few feet, its not physically possible for 99% of cyclists to do 60km/hr.

I haven't heard in the news lately how many school children have been hit by maniac cyclists on the roads... Of course, lots of cyclists crashing their bikes and braking arms and legs, but I'd say that number would go up with every intersection covered in mines a.k.a. vertical concrete curbs of all shapes and sizes.

One of the major issues I have with Laurier is the cycle track outside of the parked cars. Not only do we have to contend with passengers opening their car doors into the bike path, cyclists are hidden from cars travelling in the same direction, until *surprise* a cyclists pops out from a parked car when trying to turn right (not just at intersections, but also more of a problem at building entrances, lay-bys, garages, etc. etc.). When I'm driving, its necessary to inch forward until the nose of my car is almost in the bike path, in order for my mirror to pick up cyclists coming up to the intersection at speed. Tourists, and for example, motorists from Arnprior are not used to this, and just huck a right hand turn with ..maybe.. a shoulder check, but its not usually enough when a cyclist is moving at 20km/hr. I realize its not an easy design solution, and we can't do away with car storage, but it's a problem I regularly encounter.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by phil235

I commute by bike, but I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that cyclists shouldn't ever have to slow down for any reason, which seems to be a common view.

Turn in your A.C. card right now!

[J.OT13]

C.D. Howe Building's new secure bike parking. Not open yet. Good use of space. Nice that it's on the sidewalk level, so it doesn't require a dangerous walk down the car ramp. It's not obvious in the picture, but the sidewalk here is very wide, so the arcade wasn't necessary (though nice when it rained, but one can also just walk through the building).

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It's not obvious in the picture, but the sidewalk here is very wide, so the arcade wasn't necessary (though nice when it rained, but one can also just walk through the building).

* When it's open.

Our climate is so made for arcades and I hate losing this one.

[OTownandDown]

Battled my way from Hurdman to Tunneys on the weekend, by bicycle. Reviews are in, and they're mixed, of course.

Hurdman to Laurier: Excellent. Great bike path, lots of sight lines, full speed biking, and super-direct compared to driving. I was actually just 30 seconds behind the train across the entire route, thanks to the long dwell times (even with the speed area between Lees and uOttawa. We raced. It was fun.

Laurier: EVERY SINGLE LIGHT WAS RED. Both directions. Super annoying. Can't we time light cycles for cyclists on a downtown major cycling route? Very rough asphalt still, lots of cuts and drains. Cut off by drivers four times (one parked car, three near miss right hand turns. Didn't quite get to slap a car this time, but came close. Love a big bang to scare an idiot). Swerves at Bay are still there lol. The westbound right hand turn at Laurier and Elgin still feels unsafe. Cars enter the protected lane so early that they still accelerate past cyclists, and the mental protection of flexiposts is only for drivers going straight.

I'll seriously consider going up to Wellington next time, hills be damned.

Going east on Laurier, the reconfigured Laurier/Nicholas intersection (while annoying a bit for automobiles) was GREAT for cycling through. Love it. Including the correction of the pinch point at Laurier/Nicholas (in front of that condo). Too bad the lane ends at the next goddam pinch point at Laurier and King Edward, where you feel you might die trying to go straight thru with the active right hand turn lane. Should I take up space in the centre go-straight lane, or try to sidewalk jump? It was bad.

Pimisi Area is a cluster. The library landscaping construction is half done, and bike lanes are still half baked. It should work when all is said and done, but I'm not positive about how the connection will work from Pimisi Station to Slater and Bronson. There's some weaving and single-direction tracks that feel like discrimination against cyclists via crazy design. Why do cars get to go in a straight line, but cyclists need to weave 100 times going across downtown? (See: Rideau Street).

Pimisi Station: Death trap. Enough said.

Lebreton area: Nice new trails, nice area to hang out, lots of pedestrians and couples having moments. (and in the background of your romantic moment, cries of cyclists with broken arms in the distance, at Pimisi Station..lol)

Commanda Bridge: Excellent. TONS of users. People were eating it up.

[LRTeverywhere]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

but I'm not positive about how the connection will work from Pimisi Station to Slater and Bronson.

This will be improved with the new mup going in along the library dev parcel south of the tracks, tieing into a mup to the Empress intersection. Along with a connection at the library itself which is getting a intersection for crossing Albert and Slater

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Laurier: EVERY SINGLE LIGHT WAS RED. Both directions. Super annoying. Can't we time light cycles for cyclists on a downtown major cycling route?

Agree with this. The traffic signal timing on Laurier is very bad.

[DTcrawler]

What's wrong with Pimisi station? the bike lanes pass behind the bus shelters so I've never really had a problem with people waiting for a bus being in the way (I'll occasionally have to shout profanities at some oblivious knob buried in their phone but that's everywhere). I don't see where else the cycle track could've been placed that'd be better.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by TransitZilla

Agree with this. The traffic signal timing on Laurier is very bad.

Traffic signal timing is always going to be "very bad" for someone.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

What's wrong with Pimisi station? the bike lanes pass behind the bus shelters so I've never really had a problem with people waiting for a bus being in the way (I'll occasionally have to shout profanities at some oblivious knob buried in their phone but that's everywhere). I don't see where else the cycle track could've been placed that'd be better.

Oh, Pimisi upper is fine. I was referring to Lower. Along the waterway. Death Trap.

[jchilds72]

Typical Ford?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-government-bike-lanes-1.7328878

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by jchilds72

Typical Ford?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-government-bike-lanes-1.7328878

I mean, I hate cyclists and cycling infrastructure as much as the next guy, () but this is rage-bait 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵, and I hope every cyclist in Toronto harangues the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 out of him and every PC candidate.

[zzptichka]

They basically want to ban road diets. That would 🞵🞵🞵🞵.

Hopefully cities play ball and build wide MUPs along such projects. Technically not a bike lane.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

They basically want to ban road diets. That would 🞵🞵🞵🞵.

Hopefully cities play ball and build wide MUPs along such projects. Technically not a bike lane.

Road diets are the scourage of transportation and mostly not democratic in how they are implemented in Ontario at least.