PHILADELPHIA | The Murano | 475 FT / 145 M | 42 FLOORS

[Eigenwelt]

^ Tower's 'happy trail....'

Bet it's happy, alright.
Gia
:notacrook:

Were that comment of that nature directed toward Rep or another of our female Philly forumers I am sure I would not be the only person to object.

Giamomj, just like a few months ago when Swinefeld had to ask you to cut it out, I am going to do the same. These thread are for construction discussion not flirting. This is a skyscraper and urban topics forum, not an AOL chatroom. I have no qualms with you trying to get into another forumers pants as long as you do it in private messages instead of the public threads.

And while I could always be wrong, having met Tower I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

[theWatusi]

These thread are for construction discussion not flirting. :cheers: Thanks for stepping up and saying that Eigenwelt. If I wanted to hear cheesy pick up lines I would head over to the local college bar.

Does anyone know how far out the parking stucture will be towards JFK Blvd? I am curious as what the footprint of the building will be in relation to the lot itself.

[tower]

Is that you? It doesn't look like you.

yes sir!

also, thank you eigenwelt. the comment doesn't bother me that much but comments about "happy trails" that are unrelated to the subject of a highrise construction thread are unneccessary. i'm also straight. i guess next time i'll have to wear a bigger shirt :haha:

Hi, tower. Can I take a walk down your happy trail?



this comment is actually worse. to answer this question: no.

stay on topic guys. small chit chat is normal but comments like these are ridiculous.

[giamomj]

SciGuy made the joke - I seconded. Actually I was more interested in how Tower jumped off a railing and then....landed.

Nuff said -

Giamo

:notacrook:

[mbd1mbd1]

I'm pretty sure the top of the forms are visible from the South Street bridge now. They just peek over the Rosenbluth building.

[Pinoy2.0]

I didn't notice this until today, it's viewable above Moore. (from the north) it appears to be set back more (south) than Commerce 1&2.

[CondoGuru]

SciGuy made the joke - I seconded. Actually I was more interested in how Tower jumped off a railing and then....landed.

Nuff said -

Giamo

:notacrook:

Aside from the "Ambiguously Gay Duo," the MURANO is on the 15th floor already! It looks like they're making up for lost time due to the cold and snow.

[phillyincambridge]

why can't anyone post UPDATED pictures istead of stupid-ass homosexual banter???????(!)

[donybrx]

^^^.....well, well look who came by to edify the thread......beggars can't be choosers. like they say.....

I drove by the Murano on my last trip to town.... nice job..looking forward to
seeing it in person again...hopefully in May.....

[GarCastle]

Updated pics for scale comparison.
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6259/dscn0168uq6.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6889/dscn0166lk6.jpg

[pentopaper50]

That "Choose Blue" sign has got to go. What an eye sore on an otherwise beautiful skyline.

[bryson662001]

I didn't even bother to clean up these pictures since they will be out dated in a day or two.

I count 13 floors as of the end of day Wednesday April 4th.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k50/bryson662001/IMG_0750.jpg


From Chestnut St

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k50/bryson662001/IMG_0752.jpg

[CondoGuru]

I didn't even bother to clean up these pictures since they will be out dated in a day or two.

I count 13 floors as of the end of day Wednesday April 4th.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k50/bryson662001/IMG_0750.jpg


From Chestnut St

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k50/bryson662001/IMG_0752.jpg

They're currently on the 15th...remember, there isn't a 13th floor in this building. I know, kinda stupid, but oh well.

[Austinlee]

Garcastle!!!!!! I love this pic:
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6889/dscn0166lk6.jpg


Total awesomeness.


Those parking lots in the foreground look like prime building locations.. Someday I bet, highrises shall rise from that ground.

[TheMeltyMan]

We can only hope. I've always dreamed of the Chicago-esque river canyon between downtown and University City. Its hard to imagine anything with the expressway wall + the Schuylkill River creating a ridiculous barrier. Vine Street has the same effect to the north and it looks like things can only move to the east and south.

[McBane]

That "Choose Blue" sign has got to go. What an eye sore on an otherwise beautiful skyline.

If that's an eyesore, how does one describe the vast sea of parking lots on what is otherwise, prime land - beautiful logan square, right on the friggin river (and don't forget about the park that is constantly improving) and close to 30th st. station. And LSCA wants townhomes? That land is waaaay to valuable for townhomes.

But yea, whoda thought that the Murano would go up this quick? For a concrete structure, wow!

[JMininger]

We can only hope. I've always dreamed of the Chicago-esque river canyon between downtown and University City. Its hard to imagine anything with the expressway wall + the Schuylkill River creating a ridiculous barrier. Vine Street has the same effect to the north and it looks like things can only move to the east and south.

Aren't these parking lots and general vicinity, where river city is planned. Not that it will happen, but obviously the area is getting some attention from developers.

[SJPhillyBoy]

Aren't these parking lots and general vicinity, where river city is planned. Not that it will happen, but obviously the area is getting some attention from developers.
You are correct.

http://www.pbase.com/image/67304556.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/67304552.jpg

[LostInTheZone]

Logan Square, West Market and the Mid-City area around 30th Street will be the heart of the CBD in the future. Mark my words.

[JMininger]

Logan Square, West Market and the Mid-City area around 30th Street will be the heart of the CBD in the future. Mark my words.

I know this is off topic, except that the Murano continues the western expansion of development. In the early 90's I worked in the building just west of 30th street station on Market street. Back then it was the Meritor building (not sure what's there now). It felt very disconnected from downtown. Walking from there to downtown was like walking through a wasteland ... what is a porn shop doing on Market?!. I am glad to see the Murano get built and I hope it is the beginning of a new focus on the area. I always loved Center City but it is an embarassment how the areas near both rivers have been ignored when they are such an obvious asset to the city.

[pentopaper50]

Question is...how does one get rid of these porn shops and XXX theaters? They're either making mulaah money with the three people who go there every night or they're laundering money for the mob and Philly's many drug dealers. Yes, I said it. Come on -- who are we kidding!? Does Philadelphia have the guts to change city zoning lines?

Also, will we ever understand that buildings alone don't make a great city? You need street life to draw people out and keep the criminal element out. What a mistake it would be if they lease out the first floor of the Murano to a boring furniture store. Really, is that what this city needs?

Update: Philadelphia has dropped in ranking to the 6th largest city in the US. Phoenix has surpassed us in population. We've got to address Philadelphia's crime, city tax, and jobs issues before architecture alone ever has a chance of attracting people back. We also have to hold on to our big employers. I can't believe Lincoln Financial is leaving Center City and moving to Jersey!!Damn it -- they have a frickin' stadium here! Can't the city make it worth their while to stay?

I've also come to the conclusion that Market St. is the best street in Center City for one reason alone: it has white lights. What's with all the yellow street lights in Philadelpia? Do we really want to create the mood of Jack the Ripper's London? Haven't we learned anything about the positive impact of well-done lighting from the Cira Center?

The city needs major urban planning help -- and in a big way. River City is a great concept, but the current design needs to be burned. It is quite possibly the ugliest design I've ever seen for any set of buildings. Who are the jokers who drew this up? Was it a prank? Did Ed Rendell even look at these models when he supported this plan? He's a smart guy, so I assume he just embraced the concept without seeing the designs.

Let's make River City happen, but with more buildings like Murano, Comcast, Cira Center, and Ritz. I'm not a Logan Square resident, but I can totally see why they oppose this plan. It's not NIMBYism; it's taste.

I hope the next mayor can channel the genius of Ben Franklin and Philadelphia's other original city planners.

I need a pretzel...

[TheMeltyMan]

Why get rid of the red light development? I live a block away from a place called "Le Sex Theatre" and I still think the neighbourhood is classy. Its certainly vibrant and its not clogged with perverts at all.

Montreal's most classy retail district (Ste. Catherine) is dotted with loads of high-profile strip clubs and worse yet the street is packed with upscale shoppers and the occasional slimeball yet it doesn't seem to detract from anything.

[skyscraper]

Question is...how does one get rid of these porn shops and XXX theaters? They're either making mulaah money with the three people who go there every night or they're laundering money for the mob and Philly's many drug dealers. Yes, I said it. Come on -- who are we kidding!? Does Philadelphia have the guts to change city zoning lines?
I don't think the answer is in re-zoning. Some developer will buy the porn theater and demolish it to build his project. yes, more porn shops will pop up like mushrooms somewhere else, but that's the price of living in a free society.

Also, will we ever understand that buildings alone don't make a great city? You need street life to draw people out and keep the criminal element out. What a mistake it would be if they lease out the first floor of the Murano to a boring furniture store. Really, is that what this city needs?
the market will decide what is needed there. if they put a furniture store there and it fails, something else will go there. if that fails, something else will replace it. and so on until something succeeds. that's the price of living in a free market society.

Update: Philadelphia has dropped in ranking to the 6th largest city in the US. Phoenix has surpassed us in population. We've got to address Philadelphia's crime, city tax, and jobs issues before architecture alone ever has a chance of attracting people back. We also have to hold on to our big employers. I can't believe Lincoln Financial is leaving Center City and moving to Jersey!!Damn it -- they have a frickin' stadium here! Can't the city make it worth their while to stay?
phoenix only surpassed us because they annex their suburbs into the city, not because there is some mass influx of people flocking there.
that said, your other points are of course correct. of course we need to address crime, stupid taxes, etc. but if I read the last part of your paragraph right, you want to give lincoln some extra incentive to stay. isn't that part of the problem? that the city gives incentives to certain companies to stay and then makes everyone else pay for it. it is a symptom that the system is screwed up and corrupt. it's only when the most visible companies move out of center city that the problem is addressed, and only for that company. but it is the same across the board and needs to be overhauled completely.

The city needs major urban planning help -- and in a big way. River City is a great concept, but the current design needs to be burned. It is quite possibly the ugliest design I've ever seen for any set of buildings. Who are the jokers who drew this up? Was it a prank? Did Ed Rendell even look at these models when he supported this plan? He's a smart guy, so I assume he just embraced the concept without seeing the designs.

Let's make River City happen, but with more buildings like Murano, Comcast, Cira Center, and Ritz. I'm not a Logan Square resident, but I can totally see why they oppose this plan. It's not NIMBYism; it's taste.
the images published for river city are just schematic massing computer models to give an idea of what the massing of a development like this might look like. the buildings have not been designed in detail. that said, the jokers who put it together are daroff design.

I hope the next mayor can channel the genius of Ben Franklin and Philadelphia's other original city planners.

ben franklin was not a city planner.

[bryson662001]

Also, will we ever understand that buildings alone don't make a great city? You need street life to draw people out and keep the criminal element out. What a mistake it would be if they lease out the first floor of the Murano to a boring furniture store. Really, is that what this city needs?
When I walk down there to photograph the Murano.....usually in the afternoon.....I am always surprised at the amount of pedestrian traffic in the area. I guess alot of people are walking back and forth to 30th St/Ucity and also I think Trader Joe generates alot of foot traffic.

Update: Philadelphia has dropped in ranking to the 6th largest city in the US. Phoenix has surpassed us in population.

This is terrible. Before you know it we will be as bad off as San Francisco739,426 14th place, or Boston 559,034 24th place or even Washington, DC 550,521 27th place

[pentopaper50]

ben franklin was not a city planner.[/QUOTE]

Sorry...totally off the mark there. I meant to type William Penn.

Also, all the points everyone is making in their replies are fair. I just wish Philadelphians would challenge the status quo more...that was the crux of my late-night rant. This was once a great city and I believe it is a city on the rise. We can royaly screw up progress though if we get too comfortable with the way things are and are too quick to defend the current state out of sentimental reasons. The whole gentleman's agreement about not building above Penn's head is a classic case in point.

I say all this as a relative outsider to Philadelphia who has lived in many major cities around the world, but also as someone who believes in this city and is investing in the Murano and at least one more new property in Center City.

There are a lot of well-informed and thoughtful people on this forum. I'm impressed.

[LostInTheZone]

http://robertpence.com/phila/21_phila_1991.jpg

I compared that little porn row to "Rindelaub's Row" back when 10 Rittenhouse was still up in the air. Personally, I have the fantasy that these buildings (and the Art Moderne one at the right) can keep their facades. It's hard to fake that kind of character. The Forum and some of the other crap needs to be replaced, sure, but someone with real vision would buy these places, keep the awesome neon girls, and turn it into some kind of swanky bar. I'll be sorry to see it demolished, as happy as I would be to see that stretch class up a bit.

[bryson662001]

Personally, I have the fantasy that these buildings (and the Art Moderne one at the right) can keep their facades. It's hard to fake that kind of character.


I noticed that too. This stretch may be an eyesore and the buildings as ugly as sin but at least the architecture is "fashionably correct" for the time being. Maybe Starbucks could take one of them since they aren't in that block yet.

[bucks native]

A bit off topic - Murano - but it was brought up in a few earlier posts and I feel compelled to comment on the matter of population rankings, which don't matter, but also growth - smart, of course - which does. Cities in the southwest; Las Vegas, L.A., Phoenix, San Diego and Denver, too, are in trouble. The problem is water. Too little. It's only going to get worse, the scientists say, with a proloooonged drought now underway. And the water wars have started. Now a business that considers locating in Phoenix, let's say, WILL have second thoughts.

And, you know, if you all vote for a clean, business-friendly mayor a la NYC's Bloomberg- and you DO have a choice this time - Philly's gonna' ROCK.

Now back to Murano. And Philadelphia's beautiful water, errr, rivers - noticed what's being done to the landscaping behind the musuem, between it and the Waterworks? Complete restoration. Outstanding. Very exciting.

[Cro Burnham]

Maybe Starbucks could take one of them since they aren't in that block yet.

Didn't you know there's a Starbucks in the Erotic Emporium? . . . or *cough* so I've been told.

[skyscraper]

Didn't you know there's a Starbucks in the Erotic Emporium? . . . or *cough* so I've been told.

I'd stay away from the creamers.

[BonnerHighGuy]

Ohhhh Snap :haha:

[bryson662001]

And, you know, if you all vote for a clean, business-friendly mayor a la NYC's Bloomberg- and you DO have a choice this time - Philly's gonna' ROCK.
.

Speaking of clean, business friendly.....the paper today says Knox has pulled in to the lead.

I tried starbucks once.....didn't like it too much. Of course it was at the rest stop on the Atlantic City Expy. Maybe I should give them another chance?

[SJPhillyBoy]

I'd stay away from the creamers.
:haha: :haha: :haha:
That was a good one.

[TheMeltyMan]

I'm drinking my coffee black from this moment forward.

[therealdawk]

Speaking of clean, business friendly.....the paper today says Knox has pulled in to the lead.


Seems like a likeable guy. Brady has soared too.

The more folks I talk too it seems like the general thought is "Anybody but Fattah!"

I don't understand how he was ever the early leader in the first place.

[DIESELPOLO]

no bob brady please. yeah for tom knox or michael nutter. and behind the art museum, aren't they doing that underground parking garage that they are doing for the expansion? holla

[mja]

Seems like a likeable guy. Brady has soared too.

The more folks I talk too it seems like the general thought is "Anybody but Fattah!"

I don't understand how he was ever the early leader in the first place.

Brady is worse than Fattah.

My rankings:

1) Nutter 2) Knox 3) Evans 4) Fattah 5) Brady

[Swinefeld]

:whip: Attention: Stay on topic! :whip:

[Muji]

Today:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/bruab/DSC00769.jpg

[phillyskyline]

Muji - Ilove how that shot depicts the street wall canyon thats forming along Market St. Hopefully the other side will get filled in the next couple of years.

[Muji]

Agreed, but my main hope is that the Murano and future developments nearby will return residents and pedestrian life to this part of West Market Street.

[sjones]

can anyone tell me how much shorter Murano will be than the Commerce Square buildings? When you watch it go up its amazing how short each floor is compared to an office building. I'm guessing the Commerce bldgs are between 550-600 feet high.

[SJPhillyBoy]

The Murano is 475 feet, the Commerce Square twins are 565 feet.
or
144.8 m vs. 172.2 m

[bryson662001]

The Murano is 475 feet, the Commerce Square twins are 565 feet.
or
144.8 m vs. 172.2 m

Emporius says PECO is only 384'......can that be correct?

[Eigenwelt]

Yeah, Peco isn't all that tall. Just isolated (for now).

[PhillyRising]

Yeah, Peco isn't all that tall. Just isolated (for now).


It is amazing how towers look taller than they really are if they are seperated from other towers. The Williams Tower in Houston, one of my favorite towers, looks like it's well over 1000 feet tall when you see it in person.

What the Murano lacks in height will surely make up with it's style....

[drgoogle]

Anyone know how sales have been doing?

Agreed, but my main hope is that the Murano and future developments nearby will return residents and pedestrian life to this part of West Market Street.

[pentopaper50]

Anyone know how sales have been doing?

I hear they'll be jacking up the prices at Murano by 3 - 6% in a few weeks. That's hopefully a sign that demand is strong.

Also, I'm hearing rumors that the parking lot across the street from 23 condos might be sold soon to a developer. It would be great to have something nice built on that spot and on the green lawn by IBX. How cool would a stadium movie theater be on 23 St.? Or a high-end store like William Sonoma (which would make a killing from all the new residents in the area and the culinary school on the next block).

[Pinoy2.0]

I hear they'll be jacking up the prices at Murano by 3 - 6% in a few weeks. That's hopefully a sign that demand is strong.

Also, I'm hearing rumors that the parking lot across the street from 23 condos might be sold soon to a developer. It would be great to have something nice built on that spot and on the green lawn by IBX. How cool would a stadium movie theater be on 23 St.? Or a high-end store like William Sonoma (which would make a killing from all the new residents in the area and the culinary school on the next block).

well, from my understanding, and to some insight here, it doesn't look like a movie theater is coming here anytime soon...or ever. That being said went to the Bourse for the 1st time.

Worst. Movie. Experience. Ever.

What a piece of crap movie theater. Still did the job though I guess.

[bryson662001]

well, from my understanding, and to some insight here, it doesn't look like a movie theater is coming here anytime soon...or ever. That being said went to the Bourse for the 1st time.

Worst. Movie. Experience. Ever.

What a piece of crap movie theater. Still did the job though I guess.

I still think we could use a large swim club......or beter yet a waterpark in Center City. I understand the waiting list for the Lombard Club is years long. The hole at 10 Rittenhouse would be perfect but 19th and Market would work too. If it was covered and available all winter they would have to beat back the crowds with a stick (IMO)

[Pinoy2.0]

how bout a new swim club on top of a new skyscraper?

[drgoogle]

so you mean the subprime bubble hasnt affected The Murano??? :haha:

Seriously speaking though, I'd be skeptical about rumors you hear from the sales office. They once told me that the PECO surface lot was going to turn to retail and there has been no such announcement.

I'll call and ask them prices for a 1BR in about a month or so to see if this is raising prices stuff is true.

Anyways

I hear they'll be jacking up the prices at Murano by 3 - 6% in a few weeks. That's hopefully a sign that demand is strong.

Also, I'm hearing rumors that the parking lot across the street from 23 condos might be sold soon to a developer. It would be great to have something nice built on that spot and on the green lawn by IBX. How cool would a stadium movie theater be on 23 St.? Or a high-end store like William Sonoma (which would make a killing from all the new residents in the area and the culinary school on the next block).

[bryson662001]

how bout a new swim club on top of a new skyscraper?

Not big enough......I am talking about a destination that will draw people from all over the metro as well as us locals. A DisneyQuest that is wet....if you will.

I don't see that the Murano has any room to raise prices anytime soon. I see a struggle to just maintain them since they are already at the top of the market. The Murano really doesn't appeal to me. It is one of the last places I would choose.

[pentopaper50]

..

[drgoogle]

I've always held the belief that the lower floors have have the most room to grow. Developers always add a slight premium in per floor views. i.e. - I would pay an extra 30k, not 50k.

However, if you were rich and wanted others too know it, floors 32+ are the way to go. Instant cachet.

Overall, I cant think of any other residential property in center city with this modern, architectural wow factor. Given the limited supply of buildings like this in Philly (1 or 2), it has great appreciation potential (IMO). I could see prices reaching Symphony House or RATR levels in 3 years or so.


Murano floors 10 and above clear the Trader Joe's building on the West side. Floors 12 - 16 (there's no 13th floor) have good lines of sight looking NW and SW but are blocked directly West by the "Big Blue" sign, even though it is about 50 yards away.

Question: how much more would you spend to go further up in the building to clear the Big Blue sign? Is $50k a good investment to go from say the 14th floor to 25? Will the view difference dramatically impact ROI?

[pentopaper50]

I've always held the belief that the lower floors have have the most room to grow. Developers always add a slight premium in per floor views. i.e. - I would pay an extra 30k, not 50k.

However, if you were rich and wanted others too know it, floors 32+ are the way to go. Instant cachet.

Overall, I cant think of any other residential property in center city with this modern, architectural wow factor. Given the limited supply of buildings like this in Philly (1 or 2), it has great appreciation potential (IMO). I could see prices reaching Symphony House or RATR levels in 3 years or so.


I totally agree with you, drgoogle. I actually think Murano is very fairly priced, even for Philly. It's also the best speculative bet in the city. Market West will become the next hot neighborhood. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that, especially with Comcast and Murano going up together and UPenn eeking eastward.

[GarCastle]

From Cira's garage roof and its upper lobby.
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6502/dscn0307wr5.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9819/dscn0306pq2.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7947/dscn0304uh6.jpg

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/5508/dscn0305ny7.jpg

This one is for comparison later when the Murano starts to get up there:
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/2816/dscn0308dv7.jpg

[philliesphinest]

Originally Posted by drgoogle
Anyone know how sales have been doing?

To anyone that was interested in puchasing at Murano. I received a letter in the mail today (4-13-07) saying that preconstruction prices would be honored until 6-01-07. No indication of what the increase would be.

[pentopaper50]

Awesome photos, Garcastle! Thanks.

[Pinoy2.0]

The Murano is set back further than I would like from Market St. You figure Commerce 1 & 2 and IBX are a lot closer to the street than the Murano. And why not continue the building on top of the garage? I know it may shorten the building if they took the entire footprint or it wouldn't look as nice but I would imagine it would be high up enough that traffic noise wouldn't be that bad...unless the parking garage "setback" was a zoning thing? I'm happy with the builidng, just from Gar's photos it just stood out to me that it's further from the road than I expected.

[pentopaper50]

The Murano is set back further than I would like from Market St. You figure Commerce 1 & 2 and IBX are a lot closer to the street than the Murano. And why not continue the building on top of the garage? I know it may shorten the building if they took the entire footprint or it wouldn't look as nice but I would imagine it would be high up enough that traffic noise wouldn't be that bad...unless the parking garage "setback" was a zoning thing? I'm happy with the builidng, just from Gar's photos it just stood out to me that it's further from the road than I expected.


Pinoy -- the Murano is set back from JFK, not Market. Also, the garage will have a roof-top deck with lots of greenery, which I think will be very nice. In a way, it's probably a good thing Murano's footprint isn't bigger -- if it was, it would totally block out any decent West views from the Commerce building.

I think one of the great things about Philadelphia's skyline is that buildings generally have some breathing room from each other without being miles apart from each other, like in the Texan cities. It would be nice to preserve this attribute.

[pentopaper50]

Just released reports: http://www.centercityphila.org/plan

Check out the recommendations for Market St. West.

[The Cheat]

How much would the condo fee be per year for the smallest of the units?

----
EDIT: Thanks for the heads-up on the new plans. I've posted an article about it on the main Philly VII thread.

[drgoogle]

I think the developer has set it for around $600/month for 1BRs, although the actual figure will change once condo-owners take over the building. I think this cost includes gas and water. Plus there is the year-round in door pool. Anyone know exact specifics here? Pentopaper?


How much would the condo fee be per year for the smallest of the units?

----
EDIT: Thanks for the heads-up on the new plans. I've posted an article about it on the main Philly VII thread.

[pentopaper50]

I think the developer has set it for around $600/month for 1BRs, although the actual figure will change once condo-owners take over the building. I think this cost includes gas and water. Plus there is the year-round in door pool. Anyone know exact specifics here? Pentopaper?

Not sure about the 1 BRs. Condos fees for 2 BRs (1409 sq ft) are projected to be around $1093/mo.

Yes, I believe condo fees include gas, water, dedicated storage space for each unit, and access to 6th floor amenities -- gym, pool, sauna, outdoor deck, and entertainment space.

[CondoGuru]

Not sure about the 1 BRs. Condos fees for 2 BRs (1409 sq ft) are projected to be around $1093/mo.

Yes, I believe condo fees include gas, water, dedicated storage space for each unit, and access to 6th floor amenities -- gym, pool, sauna, outdoor deck, and entertainment space.

I called the sales center to inquire about that. The woman I spoke to said that they include all maintenance and Heating, A/C, Hot Water, Trash Removal and all Amenities. There are no gas lines in the building according to her. If the condo fees includes all of those utilities, how can they possibly arrive at an actual figure with fluctuations in energy costs??

[theWatusi]

If the condo fees includes all of those utilities, how can they possibly arrive at an actual figure with fluctuations in energy costs??

Im sure they have done studies to determine the Avg water use, heat use, ect, figured out the cost per sq/ft and then padded the number. Remember these fees are not set in stone, and they will rise in the future.

[drgoogle]

If thats true, then the condo fees seem to be getting you about $200 in utilities per month (for 1BR). The remaining $400 for staff, maintenance, and amenities (INDOOR POOL!). Seems reasonable.

they include
Heating
A/C
Hot Water

[lak100]

here are specifics directly from Murano marketing pieces that were handed to me at the Murano sales office
Maintenance fee includes: general bldg operations and maintenance. indoor 60 foot lap pool, fitness center, hospitality suite, massage therapy room, bicycle storage, secure residence storage, heat, a/c, hot water, lobby attendent, doorman, 24 hr concierge, outdoor sundeck, parking garage mainentance (only applicable for residents w/ parking license). Fees for 1,409 sq ft condo (2 bdrm) = $1093/mo; for approx 750 sq ft (1 bdrm) = $598/mo

[zerokarma]

Good update

[philliesphinest]

The building is looking good more visible now from many areas. Now how can we get rid of that blue cross billboard that is blocking some fine views.

[banned]

Good update

dude was it really neccersary to write this on nearly every thread?

[philliesphinest]

good post banned!:haha:

[Capsule F]

Do you guys think this building will be cool?

[PhillyRising]

Do you guys think this building will be cool?


Yes...I think it's shape will stand out on the skyline even though it will not be among the tallest in the city. It will be interesting what kind of nighttime lighting scheme there will be for the exterior of the tower.

[bryson662001]

dude was it really neccersary to write this on nearly every thread?
He was probably anxious to push his posts over the 1000 mark. I thought about doing that when I was getting close but I was too lazy to carry it through.

[sjones]

The Murano is 475 feet, the Commerce Square twins are 565 feet.
or
144.8 m vs. 172.2 m

Thanks. The gap wont be all that bad between the buildings. I just hope by the time this building is done other plans for this area will be in the works. I would not want to live across from porn shops if I paid top dollar for a condo in Murano. That crap has to go.

[Capsule F]

Yes...I think it's shape will stand out on the skyline even though it will not be among the tallest in the city. It will be interesting what kind of nighttime lighting scheme there will be for the exterior of the tower.

Ha, Phillynation it was a joke, to demostrate the epitomy of a meaningless and ignorant post.


Yes I know all about it and it will be a very nice tower.

[pentopaper50]

Thanks. The gap wont be all that bad between the buildings. I just hope by the time this building is done other plans for this area will be in the works. I would not want to live across from porn shops if I paid top dollar for a condo in Murano. That crap has to go.

Bravo! Finally, some firey language from someone esle on this forum! I find that many Philadelphians are too accepting of status quo. Hey, if New York can move out 45+ porn shops/theaters from 8th Ave and 42nd St. in a matter of two years, Philly can push out the two who dominate one of its most vital arteries. Market and JFK are the West entrances to our city -- do we really want to welcome visitors with seedy, crumbling porn shops? This is a larger issue than Murano...

[PhillyRising]

Ha, Phillynation it was a joke, to demostrate the epitomy of a meaningless and ignorant post.


Yes I know all about it and it will be a very nice tower.

LOL! I really thought you may have had your doubts about the tower and wanted other people's opinions. I thought Symphony House would be really nbice at first...but then once I started seeing the finished results...my opinion changed. I'm sure somebody won't like this building...and that's okay. We all don't have the same taste.

[PhillyRising]

Bravo! Finally, some firey language from someone esle on this forum! I find that many Philadelphians are too accepting of status quo. Hey, if New York can move out 45+ porn shops/theaters from 8th Ave and 42nd St. in a matter of two years, Philly can push out the two who dominate one of its most vital arteries. Market and JFK are the West entrances to our city -- do we really want to welcome visitors with seedy, crumbling porn shops? This is a larger issue than Murano...

Depends...maybe people buying at the Murano are horny perverts! Seriously, there are two gay porn shops on 13th that were there before the neighborhood improvements and are still there and they aren't keeping people away. They just made them tone down their store facade to blend in...which if the Forum and the other place intend to stay on West Market...should do the same. A new gay bathhouse opened on Samson between 20th and 21st...and it's rather nondescript on the outside and most people probably don't even know it's there. It's once they become nuisance buisnesses that affect the quality of life of the surrounding streetscape then should be push for them to close down. You can say the same thing about any bar.

[Cro Burnham]

Bravo! Finally, some firey language from someone esle on this forum! I find that many Philadelphians are too accepting of status quo. Hey, if New York can move out 45+ porn shops/theaters from 8th Ave and 42nd St. in a matter of two years, Philly can push out the two who dominate one of its most vital arteries.

No we can't!!!!!:tantrum:

[GarCastle]

Such a nice day today.

One shot with the Murano next to its bigger cousin CC.
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6029/dscn0323jm4.jpg

A shot down Market from the west.
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9586/dscn0324ae9.jpg

From 30th St. Station.
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7373/dscn0327iw8.jpg

[Phillydude]

Hi folks. For those of you who have been on here for a while and know me, you know this is coming...LEAVE THE PORN SHOPS ALONE! They were there first and I'm never one to hold back progress but to my knowledge there has never been a problem there in my 27 years in Philadelphia. Everyone knows what t*ts and a*s and ***n***g looks like.

PS -- And ****.

[pentopaper50]

Hi folks. For those of you who have been on here for a while and know me, you know this is coming...LEAVE THE PORN SHOPS ALONE! They were there first and I'm never one to hold back progress but to my knowledge there has never been a problem there in my 27 years in Philadelphia. Everyone knows what t*ts and a*s and ***n***g looks like.

PS -- And ****.

Phillydude: Thanks for showing in a few sentences exactly the kind of reactionary, ass-backward thinking that kept Philadelphia stuck in reverse when heavy manufacturing dried up. Open your eyes, man -- Philly is going to get knocked upside the head by globalization if it doesn't transform itself into a city where people want to live and do business. I don't think you have any clue what you're advocating. If you really want to preserve these rathole porn shops at the Western gates of our city, ask yourself at what expense. These porn shops are relics from another time; they give outsiders opportunities to laugh at Philadelphia instead of witnessing all that's great about the city.

This is a moot point anyway. Those porno joints will be gone in 1.5 years.

[Cro Burnham]

Phillydude: Thanks for showing in a few sentences exactly the kind of reactionary, ass-backward thinking that kept Philadelphia stuck in reverse when heavy manufacturing dried up. Open your eyes, man --

Hey, I'm with you on the porn shops, but Phillydude has always seemd like a pretty cool guy and I think he was being a little tongue-in-cheek - take it easy on him! (not that he needs any defenders)

[PhillyRising]

Phillydude: Thanks for showing in a few sentences exactly the kind of reactionary, ass-backward thinking that kept Philadelphia stuck in reverse when heavy manufacturing dried up. Open your eyes, man -- Philly is going to get knocked upside the head by globalization if it doesn't transform itself into a city where people want to live and do business. I don't think you have any clue what you're advocating. If you really want to preserve these rathole porn shops at the Western gates of our city, ask yourself at what expense. These porn shops are relics from another time; they give outsiders opportunities to laugh at Philadelphia instead of witnessing all that's great about the city.

This is a moot point anyway. Those porno joints will be gone in 1.5 years.


Has the hookers in the windows and the live sex show clubs ever kept people from going to Amsterdam?

[pentopaper50]

Has the hookers in the windows and the live sex show clubs ever kept people from going to Amsterdam?

This is a false analogy. Philly's no Amsterdam or Montreal from a cultural, economic, demographic, or nightlife standpoint. And our ratty little porn shops are not the kind of tourist attraction that draws in people. If we don't plan out Philly's red light districts better, we're more likely to resemble Bangkok or the seedier, crime-ridden parts of urban Brazilian.

I have nothing personal against phillydude, but I'm not going to back down just because "he's a nice guy." I'm sick of supposedly tongue-in-cheek comments that have somehow become pervasive among a lot of philadelphians. Stupid statements have a strange way of becoming stupid arguments and, eventually, stupid policies.

Phillydude -- I hope you don't respond with some kind of inane, emotion-based argument to back up your "they were here first" point. We wouldn't have 80% of the public infrastructure we have today if everyone subscribed to that line of thought.

People were lined up in New York to save the porn shops too; now everyone agrees Midtown, NY, is way better than it was a few years ago. It's safer; it's cleaner; and, even the porn shops that remained are now classier and better maintained. There's also less of the riffraff and drugdealers walking around this key commerical and business district. I helped put away a few of these shady characters myself, so I know what I'm talking about.

Result: NYC tourism has never been stronger and average citizens are on the streets at all hours of the night. That's what we need in Philadelphia -- more of the good kind of street life that keeps a city's pulse going.

There's nothing inherently wrong with porn shops -- my arguments are purley based on urban planning principles.

[bryson662001]

Every world class city needs a porn shop......if not a porn district.....although maybe not on Market St. But seriously.....in the age of the internet it is hard to believe that these places can even survive.

Oh and Times square? 42nd St in the '80's was a real tourist attraction......today it's just a tourist trap.

[donybrx]

^^^ You shoulda seen it in the 70's :)

ahh...good times.....

Yep.^^I think the the internet will continue to obviate the need for these joints (no pun intended) but I do think that they did factor into the life of cities, large and small for some time and as necessary on some basis, even if socially awkward or inappropriate seeming...life is never monochromatic.....

[bryson662001]

^^^ You shoulda seen it in the 70's :)

ahh...good times.....
.....

I lived there from '68 to '89. I am embarresed to admit how often.......uh, never mind. Actually it was very amusing to watch some tourist familys walking 42nd St with their mouths hanging open and their heads spinning. I am sure it was an experience they will never forget.

[MetroSplash]

Beautiful day today. Perfect for testing out my new camera.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j207/Metrosplash/DSC00113.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j207/Metrosplash/DSC00116.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j207/Metrosplash/DSC00118.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j207/Metrosplash/DSC00115.jpg

[Muji]

great update. It's nice to see the glass starting to move up again.

[Phillydude]

1) If we don't plan out Philly's red light districts better, we're more likely to resemble Bangkok or the seedier, crime-ridden parts of urban Brazilian.

2) I hope you don't respond with some kind of inane, emotion-based argument to back up your "they were here first" point.

3) I helped put away a few of these shady characters myself, so I know what I'm talking about.

4) There's nothing inherently wrong with porn shops -- my arguments are purley based on urban planning principles.

1) Where would you put them?

2) If people can object to a bakery being torn down for progress why not a porn shop -- some folks like bakeries, I like porn shops.

3) What are you, a cop? DA? Town Watch?

4) Again, if you're a great urban planner, where would you put them? They tried Callowhill Street, amongst the interminable warehouses and barren stretches, and people objected. If you had a genuine plan, I would digress...but you pretty much went off the handle on me, no problem, but tell me...where would you put them? I bet...NOWHERE.

[PhillyRising]

Every world class city needs a porn shop......if not a porn district.....although maybe not on Market St. But seriously.....in the age of the internet it is hard to believe that these places can even survive.

Oh and Times square? 42nd St in the '80's was a real tourist attraction......today it's just a tourist trap.

Yep...all they had to do was put a roof over Times Square back then and it would have been the world's largest porn shop! I can still see the look of horror on my mom's face when we walked through there in May 1985! It was priceless!

What they did on 13th Street is the way to go. The Samson Cinema and TomCat bookstore are behind frosted glass with diminutive signage that does not stand out against the new businesses that have infused life on a street that for many years was pretty seedy and dead. The same could be done on West Market across from the Murano....they must be getting business of some sorts or they wouldn't still be open. There were far more porn shops all over CC 10 years ago.

[PhillyRising]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j207/Metrosplash/DSC00115.jpg

Again...great pictures MetroSplash! keep them coming!

This building already has a grand presence on Market Street....and the windows look great! How many people think this will be one of the iconic buildings in Philly? I think it will be.

[pentopaper50]

1) Where would you put them?

Because of the amount of drugs and violent crime in areas immediately outside Center City, it is better for Philadelphia not to have any concentrated red light districts in the downtown area. This should be managed by city policy. Market forces will dictate where individual downtown porn shops will thrive. Outside of a proper red light district, urban porn shops (i.e., not near airports or in desolate areas) are usually only successful in areas buzzing with street-level activity/commerce and lots of pedestrian traffic (e.g., South St.).


2) If people can object to a bakery being torn down for progress why not a porn shop -- some folks like bakeries, I like porn shops.

That's fine -- you're entitled to your preferences and your 1st Ammendment rights. It just seems odd to me though that you're on a forum dedicated to a great, up-and-coming building that will contribute to Center City's future. The only reason I pounced on you was because of the bravado of your original message. Don't pretend to be an advocate for progress if you're going to say or do things that will ultimately hurt the city of Philadelphia in the long-run. Buildings like Murano, Mandeville, Ritz, Comcast, etc., will redefine the image of this city and help bring in tons of revenue and talent, which ultimately will be good for everyone in the city.

I hope the signature quote at the end of your messages doesn't sum up your vision for Philadelphia:"No tomorrow, no tomorrow."

I don't think that way.

(And, yes, I know the source of your quote -- I have Gen Y children obsessed with video games.)

3) What are you, a cop? DA? Town Watch?

Yeah, neighborhood watch member. ;-)

4) Again, if you're a great urban planner, where would you put them? They tried Callowhill Street, amongst the interminable warehouses and barren stretches, and people objected. If you had a genuine plan, I would digress...but you pretty much went off the handle on me, no problem, but tell me...where would you put them? I bet...NOWHERE.

See my response to #1.

Also, I am not a professional urban planner, but I care about Philadelphia.

On to other matters...the Murano photos look great. Liberty 2's models are also stunning. The views from even their lowest floor can't be matched.

[Phillydude]

I actually agreed with doing away with the porn shops by the Convention Center. Business, conventioneers, actually downtown, etc. No problem. I think those two are okay right where they are. They hardly constitute a red light district. As for why I'm here, I've been here a long time -- most folks would attest to my dedication to a great city. But everyone is always after those two porn shops and they aren't hurting anything, except maybe "people won't want to see them if they shell out a million bucks." Just stating my opinion.

For the record though, I'm 47 and my source doesn't come from video games, it comes from the original, back in the early 80s. :)

Town Watch folks are cool though. You guys serve a purpose. Keep trucking dude.

[pentopaper50]

I actually agreed with doing away with the porn shops by the Convention Center. Business, conventioneers, actually downtown, etc. No problem. I think those two are okay right where they are. They hardly constitute a red light district. As for why I'm here, I've been here a long time -- most folks would attest to my dedication to a great city. But everyone is always after those two porn shops and they aren't hurting anything, except maybe "people won't want to see them if they shell out a million bucks." Just stating my opinion.

For the record though, I'm 47 and my source doesn't come from video games, it comes from the original, back in the early 80s. :)

Town Watch folks are cool though. You guys serve a purpose. Keep trucking dude.

Phillydude: your opinion is valid and I can see why you'd feel that way.

My primary concern is that these two porn shops stick out like sore thumbs in a visible entry point into the city. Regardless of whether they are actual nuisances or not, people will perceive them as such -- especially those looking to invest in the area. And the fact is that Philadelphia cannot afford to push away investors. Center City taxes generate more than 50% of Philadelphia's revenue. If we hurt progress in Center City, it's really the rest of Philadelphia that will feel the pain most acutely in the form of reduced social services, etc. As someone who grew up in the inner city and who still cares about the people there, I don't want this to happen.

By the way -- I love "Mad World" too. So, we do have some things in common...that's a good start.

Lastly, while I was serious about neighborhood watch, I also served in the FBI for five years, worked as a federal prosecutor for eight years, and served as a criminal court judge.

[Phillydude]

Mad World RULES, especially the part about "no tomorrow" (that's why its in my sig line). I can see your point about investors too. Some may not want that -- but Murano went up, knowing those shops were there. I guess some don't care.

I was serious about the Town Watch too. I thought the Guardian Angels was a halfway decent idea too, but poorly executed. I may be a flaming Liberal about some things but Town Watch is a good idea. If you practiced in Philadelphia I may know you. Depends. I'm in the legal field myself. I'm on the other side, but that's what makes America great.