PHILADELPHIA | The Murano | 475 FT / 145 M | 42 FLOORS

[Londonee]

Interesting observation. I haven't tried what you did, but it sounds about right.
I would try to increase traffic there, not just dress it up with trees. I say, add a subway station on 21st on the MFL. The west part of Market needs that anyway. I have always thought that it was ridiculous that there isn't a station between 15th and 30th, and the subway/surface trolley lines don't do that much for density. This would add some vitality to that part of town and encourage more development, especially commercial development. There would be less of a desert between 21st and the river/University City.

some transit geeks will probably come along and explain it better, but i have been told that an MFL stop at 21st is impossible due to the current alignment of the trolley tracks. one thought was to dig underneath the trolley station, and put an MFL station below, but apparently it's too close to the river tunnel, and the grade rise would be too steep for it to work properly. i think hal knows a lot about this, but when the MFL was built at the turn of the century, West Market was almost non-existent, covered by factories and warehouses with almost no pedestrian activity. it's a shame the planners didnt have the foresight to predict what west market could become, but that's the way it's done in philly.

[sciguy0504]

The PECO building on 24th is so-so but fantastic compared to the area. I heard a rumor that the PECO surface lot (almost an entire city block) is being converted to retail. I haven't read this anywhere but this could be the shot in the arm West Market needs.

I think you are referring to something that is on "The Rundown" on the first page of this thread. I was wondering what it was but your comment made it click. That parking lot is horrendous, by the way.

It's rediculous that the subway does not stop anywhere between 15th and 30th streets. Instead of stopping at 21st, could it stop somewhere before or after that due to the problems Londonee mentioned?

[McBane11]

i don't know what the problem is with west market transit. maybe im missing something but the green line stops at 19th and 22nd, and 26,27,28 & 29th streets are non existent so, its not like there are no stops between 15th and 30th. more like 2 stops between 15th and 25th.

[volguus zildrohar]

People (usually not affiliated with planning such things) have talked about an El stop on West Market for ages. Right now, it would be impossible to build a station along the corridor without realigning the tracks and widening the tunnel which would take it beneath the sidewalks and most likely properties along West Market. The grade of the tunnel from the ascent from the Schuylkill River tunnel is decent after 22nd Street, obviously, but past 22nd Street you start encounterng high rises which tends to pose problems for tunneling.

skyscraper, what do you mean that the SST stations at 19th & 22nd don't do much for density exactly? Boston and San Francisco make do just fine with underground light rail (through they operate articulated/MU trains) and the trolleys were rolling through the Market Street Subway before The El was. The transfer at 30th Street can be cumbersome and I do agree that an additional station now would start making sense but it would be little more than a pipe dream without a load of money and community demand.

[skyscraper]

skyscraper, what do you mean that the SST stations at 19th & 22nd don't do much for density exactly? Boston and San Francisco make do just fine with underground light rail (through they operate articulated/MU trains) and the trolleys were rolling through the Market Street Subway before The El was. The transfer at 30th Street can be cumbersome and I do agree that an additional station now would start making sense but it would be little more than a pipe dream without a load of money and community demand.
By this, I mean that not as many people take the trolley as the blue line (a personal quirk here: I don't call the MFL line the El when it is underground, only when it is actually elevated.)
I don't know if it's true that there were trolleys in the subway before there were trains, but I doubt it. The Market Street line was the first subway in Philadelphia, and my understanding has always been that it was a train first, but I'll concede the point if you can show me where you got that. Either way, it's irrelevant to this discussion, as is the mention of Boston and San Fran. We are not talking about those cities, we are talking about the Blue Line vs Green Lines in Philadelphia. More people take the blue line than the green lines, and that is why I say the green lines don't do much for density.
The transfer at 30th Street is cumbersome and should be unnecessary. The West side of Market Street is where probably the highest concentration of white collar jobs in the city are located, and it is ludicrous that you can't take the blue line there directly without walking or transferring to the trolleys for a few blocks. Maybe it's a pipe dream, but since it was a hypothetical question, I answered with what I think is the best solution. I don't know what the engineering requirements are to put a station there, but again, hypothetical...

[volguus zildrohar]

Ugh.

"At first, a surface trolley car was rerouted to the new subway, and the first heavy rail subway train ran on 1/13/1907 (as a test train from 69th to 15th Street). Regular service began on 3/4/1907."

See here (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/phila/market-frankford.html).

Again, I do know what I'm talking about.

There are a few things I should have added to tha post.

Now, it's true light rail moves fewer people than heavy rail. That difference is one of the things that separates the two. In our case, the trolleys operate more as a means of connecting riders to transfer stations once they reach Center City than as a primary means of transit themselves (obviously as they mirror existing higher capacity rail service). The original planners for PRT probably didn't have the foresight to install a station in that area of Market (between 21st and 23rd) where even today there isn't much of any kind of job not requiring one to stand behind a counter.

Your point that Boston and San Francisco being irrelevant didn't take into account I wasn't talking about the cities, I was talking about the transit systems. Boston, in particular, is a good comparison in terms of infrastructure as it also has light rail lines that feed downtown and connect riders to higher capacity heavy rail lines. And I'm using Boston's information only to illustrate the point.

The present system, while less than ideal, is workable at the present time. Future developments along that stretch of Market Street will determine how great the need is for improved transit. That's the way it generally works and at such time the smarter idea would be a heavy rail station.

[CondoGuru]

That's another reason why a building like Murano won't have an underground garage off Market St, and has rather placed an above-ground one behind the tower. Commerce Square's is set back underground, above Market, but Murano and 1919 Market will hug the corners of their locations. More often than not, when a contractor goes to the city for underground maps of the tunnels and lines, the city doesn't even know what's down there. That would be a one-way ticket to bankruptcy to run into those while digging. The 1919 parking plan that was preliminarily approved includes a combination of above and underground parking space. My guess is that it will be accessed from 20th St. rather than Market. I would be extremely apprehensive about digging too far underground anywhere along this strech of Market St. It's not just about investors not wanting to go underground with the parking to save money, it's about the risk involved along this area with underground trains.

[volguus zildrohar]

April 21:

Digging. Not much else.

http://www.pbase.com/image/58991412.jpg

[skyscraper]

April 21:

Digging. Not much else.

http://www.pbase.com/image/58991412.jpg
Digging is better than not digging. Glad to see they are making progress.

[CondoGuru]

I know, right!!! haha How dare they! We want to see this building go up overnight, or we won't be happy! The street closure does suck, but come on guys, this is gonna take some time...the building is huge, they have a lot to do before they plop down a 42 story sucker like that!

[volguus zildrohar]

Ahem.

The caption was "Digging. Not Much else." Because there isn't "much else" happening. Digging is what it is. So is building.

I'll label future photos with all ancillary activities just to compensate.

'K?

[russbaseball]

Hey I work at 2000 market and have a great view of this site. I was wondering if any one knew what that small peice of machinery is there that just runs back and forth, and it must run by remote control.

[CondoGuru]

Not quite sure what the drone is for, but my guess is that it's perhaps some kind of sensor, or surveyor...not sure. I did notice that the caseons were on-site this morning, which means they're not far from pouring actual concrete.

[k2wilde]

Volg. I feel for you. A good man you are.

I'd like to put my 2cents in about the MFL and Planning. It would seem that besides the logistical/financial/etc; reasons that would tie down any new stations, there is IMO something that the original planners had never thought of. In their (the original planners) minds they had made the right decision considering the era. That something is ED BACON, who decided to change the original progression of the office/etc; markets. And strongly create the new Office corridor from Broad to West Market.
Also, if Ed had wanted to (maybe he even tried to) fix the future layout of the MFL/SubwaySurface Lines, he was probably stopped by City Council etc; as his ideas were 'crazy' and ahead of his time. I have read about how little of his visions ever came true. My 2cents. Thanks for listening.

I'm glad The Murano has made it this far so seemingly fast. Making the connection of CC and UC so much closer. And with A fine building at that.

Lincolndrive- yeah thanks for investigating

CondoGuru--is "caseons" your cute word for caissons or am I missing something?
:)

Cheers,
Rob

[CondoGuru]

Forgive my spelling error K2Wilde...I used the Italian derivative rather than the French...I hope they're not too pissed off! :D

[wanderer34]

Volg. I feel for you. A good man you are.

I'd like to put my 2cents in about the MFL and Planning. It would seem that besides the logistical/financial/etc; reasons that would tie down any new stations, there is IMO something that the original planners had never thought of. In their (the original planners) minds they had made the right decision considering the era. That something is ED BACON, who decided to change the original progression of the office/etc; markets. And strongly create the new Office corridor from Broad to West Market.
Also, if Ed had wanted to (maybe he even tried to) fix the future layout of the MFL/SubwaySurface Lines, he was probably stopped by City Council etc; as his ideas were 'crazy' and ahead of his time. I have read about how little of his visions ever came true. My 2cents. Thanks for listening.

I'm glad The Murano has made it this far so seemingly fast. Making the connection of CC and UC so much closer. And with A fine building at that.

Lincolndrive- yeah thanks for investigating

CondoGuru--is "caseons" your cute word for caissons or am I missing something?
:)

Cheers,
Rob

Good point, however you must also think about the NYC subway system, which extended from Manhattan to basically in the middle of nowhere in the Bronx, Brooklyn, and parts of Queens. Many of the places that the independent companies (IRT, BMT, IND) extended to was farm and open land. That's what really made NYC into the great big city we always knew about.

While Market Street from 15th to the Schuykill was mainly industrial, I still don't believe that the original subway planners didn't have any foresight that the city would grow from it's boundaries to right now. The original Phila downtown was what we know today as Old City. It slowly expanded in the 1800's to Broad St, where the current city hall would be constructed for almost 30 years. A four track express service subway would've been in the best interests for Phila, even for today from Upper Darby to NE Phila. Even though the trolley system was constructed first, it still would've been updated to accomodate an express-type subway that NYC currently enjoys right now.

[adrian312]

Hi everyone, what do ppl think about this condo as an investment, more specifically the 2 bedrooms, does anyone know how much they start at? I am really interested in these condos...

[CondoGuru]

Hi everyone, what do ppl think about this condo as an investment, more specifically the 2 bedrooms, does anyone know how much they start at? I am really interested in these condos...

It's a hot looking building, so I can't afford it! haha But when I went in there last fall, they were saying high 500's for a 2BR, but who knows where they're at now. People always say those things to get you in and then you find out there was only one at that price or something. But it sounded reasonable at the time.

[volguus zildrohar]

Hi everyone, what do ppl think about this condo as an investment, more specifically the 2 bedrooms, does anyone know how much they start at? I am really interested in these condos...

You'd be better off trying to get that kind of information from the developer and relators directly than here. Anyhting you get here is conjecture as no one here is directly involved with the project in any way. We're onlookers.

[CondoGuru]

jealous onlookers...if you buy one adrian, you better have a party for all of us! :)

[kazpmk]

Are cassions being drilled now???

[RayZ]

Activity at the site has really picked up. There are 3 drills working, with caissons strewn about the site. They are also driving steel into the middle of the plot (not sure why).

[volguus zildrohar]

^Yup.

For some reason I didn't snatch an photo this morning when I went by but it's full steam ahead.

[drgoogle]

I bought here and think its a great investment. The proximity to 30th Street and amtrak's acela service made it very attractive. I also love the architecture. These 3 reasons are also why office space at circa is a hot commodity (tax incentives being equal).

To maximize your investment, I'd wait for the city to do something with market west (2-way?) before flipping, which is atleast another mayor away. $$$ wise, I know this project is about the same or less in price/sqft than 23Condo and 1919 Market, both inferior buildings in my opinion.

The ability to put a down payment now and lock in a price without having to close (make payments) also helps with the financing if you use these 2 years wisely. I say go for it!

Hi everyone, what do ppl think about this condo as an investment, more specifically the 2 bedrooms, does anyone know how much they start at? I am really interested in these condos...

[CondoGuru]

Okay doc and adrian, so now can we count on at least TWO parties for us at Murano? :yes:

[CondoGuru]

Yes, caissons have been going in and I actually have seen a concrete truck on-site everyday this week. The drills that have been pounding the steel pilons underground nearly jolted me out of bed by the way. I really sympathize with the folks living in the After 6 lofts, that must be unbearable noise.

[RayZ]

Yes, caissons have been going in and I actually have seen a concrete truck on-site everyday this week. The drills that have been pounding the steel pilons underground nearly jolted me out of bed by the way. I really sympathize with the folks living in the After 6 lofts, that must be unbearable noise.

They have already poured the concrete for the curve of footings on the Market St. face of the building. You can see the shape of that the front facade will take (the outermost part of the curve comes very close to Market St.).

[SouthPhilly]

Yes, caissons have been going in and I actually have seen a concrete truck on-site everyday this week. The drills that have been pounding the steel pilons underground nearly jolted me out of bed by the way. I really sympathize with the folks living in the After 6 lofts, that must be unbearable noise.
Hopefully they work during daylight hours

[CondoGuru]

They do, but unions typically start work at 7am and go til 3pm. So I'm getting a daily wakeup call that I'd rather not have. :(

[giovanni sasso]

yep, they sure have driven some caissons -- from wednesday:

http://phillyskyline.com/bldgs/murano/murano_uc009.jpg

http://phillyskyline.com/bldgs/murano/murano_uc008.jpg

http://phillyskyline.com/bldgs/murano/murano_uc010.jpg

[sjones]

BAsed on the slow pace of the comcast center its going to be a while before you see any steel rising from this site. Maybe by the start of the NFL season if we're lucky.

[looper121]

BAsed on the slow pace of the comcast center its going to be a while before you see any steel rising from this site. Maybe by the start of the NFL season if we're lucky.

Comcast ≠Murano.

[banned]

BAsed on the slow pace of the comcast center its going to be a while before you see any steel rising from this site. Maybe by the start of the NFL season if we're lucky.
You're not going to be seeing any steel "rise" from this site. It's going to be a concrete building.

[volguus zildrohar]

Yep. The start may be slow like the other two concrete highrises we've seen go up however Murano has the benefit of not having a garage on its base floors, unlike The St. James or Symphony House.

[sjones]

The lack of garage underneath is a good thing in terms of seeing the building go up. Why is concrete preferred for residential building? I assume it's cost because it cant be related to ease of construction. The pace on symphony house is sluggish compared to comcast.

[russbaseball]

The lack of garage underneath is a good thing in terms of seeing the building go up. Why is concrete preferred for residential building? I assume it's cost because it cant be related to ease of construction. The pace on symphony house is sluggish compared to comcast.

I heard one reason is bc a concrete building wont sway making it much more comfortable to live in.

[wanderer34]

Ans also, since the Murano isn't no supertall, it's not necessary for it to sway. A supertall like the Sears Tower, the WTC, and the ESB have to sway do to their massive heights and so it can be flexible during major storms.

[volguus zildrohar]

I don't believe it matters whether or not it's supertall. Any building of apperciable height is going to have some kind of sway. It helps when a structure is surrounded by other highrises to buffet the effect of strong winds but they would still move.

[Swinefeld]

Sunday, May 28th, 2006.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/Miscellanious/MuranoPano.jpg

[skyscraper]

The lack of garage underneath is a good thing in terms of seeing the building go up. Why is concrete preferred for residential building? I assume it's cost because it cant be related to ease of construction. The pace on symphony house is sluggish compared to comcast.
concrete is preferred for residential buildings because you can get more floors in the building than you could with a steel building of the same height. The floor-to-floor heights are less with concrete because you don't need the structural members to be as deep, and since residential buildings generally don't have the same ceiling height requirements as offices, it is preferred.
This is also why many buildings in Washington DC and other cities with restrictive building height limitations prefer to build with concrete: more floors per building height than steel. The construction process goes slower, but they get their money back eventually because they are able to put more floors in (assuming they can rent those floors.)

[skyscraper]

I don't believe it matters whether or not it's supertall. Any building of apperciable height is going to have some kind of sway. It helps when a structure is surrounded by other highrises to buffet the effect of strong winds but they would still move.
You are correct, it is not just supertall buildings that sway. But having other buildings around can actually make the wind problem worse. It is true that to some extent they act as buffers, but if there are a lot of them around, they form canyons and channel the wind. With a lesser area for the wind to move in, but the same amount of wind that has to move, the wind moves faster and therfore with more force. It's the same effect as putting your thumb on the end of a garden hose: if you decrease the size of the opening, but keep the amount of water constant, the water moves faster and sprays with more force.

[Swinefeld]

Some views from June 3. Pretty messy construction site.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/Miscellanious/MuranoJune4_1.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/Miscellanious/MuranoJune4_2.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/Miscellanious/MuranoJune4_5.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/Miscellanious/MuranoJune4_6.jpg

[russbaseball]

They are pouring a ton of concreat at the moment.

[phillyskyline]

Thanx for the pics! I hope it continues at this fast pace.

[buildup]

A ton of concrete is very much! LOL Anyhow, I'm sure you mean a lot of it. Is it a caisson or maybe the foundation?

[We Got Five]

This building is going to do wonders for that area. An area that has been very quiet for too long. :banana:

[russbaseball]

A ton of concrete is very much! LOL Anyhow, I'm sure you mean a lot of it. Is it a caisson or maybe the foundation?


yea a lot :) They were filling two caissons.. and drilling another one.. btw i have a great view of this site from my work and it seems that the caissons are in the most random spots. I know it will make sense in the end.. I guess its just bc its going to be an odd shaped building..

[williamphilapa]

06_11_06 9:30am-10:30am
more equipment / more progress...

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/695/dscf24351um.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4393/dscf24366dh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/3889/dscf24375iu.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[PhillyRising]

They were working at the site yesterday. I first passed it as I walked from 30th Street Station down JFK going to meet up with everyone and we stopped there on our tour yesterday. They were still drilling holes in the ground for caissons I presume...I'm no construction expert.

[hi123]

spm on phillyIV said that he heard that this would not be built!!:( is this true?

[Pennsgrant]

spm on phillyIV said that he heard that this would not be built!!:( is this true?

Is that the same spm that said Philadlephia was in the process of annexing Montgomery County? Don't believe everything you read

[Swinefeld]

^ Fool me once, shame on you... ;)

Yes, Murano is most assuredly under construction.

[mja]

Is that the same spm that said Philadlephia was in the process of annexing Montgomery County? Don't believe everything you read

The Montgomery County thing was just a joke that some people thought was real.

Now, spm has better access to a great deal of information on what is going on with this city than 90% of us here.

I'm just hoping whoever told him this got confused between the Murano and 1919 Market.

I can't imagine they'd stop the Murano at this point.

[donybrx]

Maybe 'mja' and 'spm' are co-conspirators? Or one and the same .....?

I'll give it more time, then call upon the friendly "Ignore" feature.....

[Swinefeld]

I'm just hoping whoever told him this got confused between the Murano and 1919 Market.

I can't imagine they'd stop the Murano at this point.
That's what I thought. Either he confused 1919 with Murano or it's a dumb joke.

[relnahe]

Guys, this is beyond a dumb joke. I think I might have to use the ignore option as well. Only place Murano is going is up.

[Cro Burnham]

I truly doubt SPM is joking. His sources may be wrong, and it would seem strange - but not unheard of* - that a developer would stop building midstream.

But if you look at SPM's posts here and on Phillyblog, he is one of the most well-informed and bullish posters on development. In the real world, he has been a well-known, well-respected person in economic development in Philly (I do not believe he has ever tried to conceal that) for 15 years. If you choose to ignore his posts, that is your own ignorant-a$$ed loss, as he is more in the know by far than most of the rah-rah booster-types on this board. You should quit jumping on him. Your time would be better spent checking the facts on the rumor he has heard.

The last joke he made about annexing Montco was obviously a joke, and for those who didn't pick that up and subsequently felt dumb as a result, then shame on you. It does not follow that you would try to blacklist the guy because he mistakenly assumed you had a certain intelligence/maturity/knowledge level to pick up on an obvious joke.

* The Rittenhouse sat vacant and half-constructed from the late 70s to late 80s

[Palms]

I truly doubt SPM is joking. His sources may be wrong, and it would seem strange - but not unheard of* - that a developer would stop building midstream.

I agree, I thought the annexation post was clearly sarcasm and with construction costs going up daily, continued tightening of the money market, renovated and New Philly condo projects(South Bridge Ayer Aria etc.) coming out of the woodworks daily. It just would not shock me to see the Murano put on the emergency brake and say this project is just not financially feasible at this point and time.

I don't think thats the case as todays Inquirer real estate guide has a pictured ad of the Murano on its front cover.I'm hopeful but it wouldn't shock me if Murano didn't make it.

[mja]

Maybe 'mja' and 'spm' are co-conspirators? Or one and the same .....?

I'll give it more time, then call upon the friendly "Ignore" feature.....

I'm taking it that you aren't on Phillyblog.

Both spm & I are regulars there, so anybody else that posts between both boards knows full well that we aren't the same person. I am just a mere school teacher, he owns his own economic consulting firm & has held a top post in city government.

I haven't had the pleasure of meeting spm, but I do know enough to take anything he says very seriously.

[TheOldMan]

Im sure spm is reliable. everyone is allowed to joke around. otherwise, these boards would put people to sleep. But as for Murano, I was under the impression it was at least 55% sold out and close to 90% reserved (i last came upon these numbers about 3 months ago or so). If that is true, that is more than enough to get construction started.

As far as the costs, wouldnt they be worked out in advance. I dont know much about construction management, so forgive me if i mis-speak but i thought all supply contracts for materials were fixed cost or limited cost plus. the costs for steel/masonry/glass/etc... should have been worked out prior to construction, thus maintaining some control on prices. i mean, if a supplier was giving some raw material at X price per square foot and then suddenly hiked the price to , say, 5X, that would be suspect. Developers would protect themselves from that. any increases would have been factored in already along with a contingency factor of some determinate value.

anyway, i could be totally wrong about all this but it would seem that Murano should be built. its not like an office project where the decision to pull out of plans to occupy a new building by one or two major tenants could determine wether the project gets off the ground or not (i.e. IBX tower 2).

[drgoogle]

the area is too ripe for development. it is the most promising corridor of center city. any plans to put on the brakes will be a magor setback for west market. Considering the investment in marketing, the sales center, legal, and now construction, there would have to be a MAGOR reason for them to stop, and not something stupid like the condo market is slowing down.


Im sure spm is reliable. everyone is allowed to joke around. otherwise, these boards would put people to sleep. But as for Murano, I was under the impression it was at least 55% sold out and close to 90% reserved (i last came upon these numbers about 3 months ago or so). If that is true, that is more than enough to get construction started.

As far as the costs, wouldnt they be worked out in advance. I dont know much about construction management, so forgive me if i mis-speak but i thought all supply contracts for materials were fixed cost or limited cost plus. the costs for steel/masonry/glass/etc... should have been worked out prior to construction, thus maintaining some control on prices. i mean, if a supplier was giving some raw material at X price per square foot and then suddenly hiked the price to , say, 5X, that would be suspect. Developers would protect themselves from that. any increases would have been factored in already along with a contingency factor of some determinate value.

anyway, i could be totally wrong about all this but it would seem that Murano should be built. its not like an office project where the decision to pull out of plans to occupy a new building by one or two major tenants could determine wether the project gets off the ground or not (i.e. IBX tower 2).

[donybrx]

I'm taking it that you aren't on Phillyblog.

Both spm & I are regulars there, so anybody else that posts between both boards knows full well that we aren't the same person. I am just a mere school teacher, he owns his own economic consulting firm & has held a top post in city government.

I haven't had the pleasure of meeting spm, but I do know enough to take anything he says very seriously.

It was a joke....... :)

[TheOldMan]

DrGoogle, i completely agree. but MAGOR is actually spelled MAJOR :)
(of course i am probibly the last person that should be pointing out spelling errors, hehe.)

[hi123]

It was a joke.......:)

thank god...

[Cro Burnham]

thank god...


Not so fast hi123, I think Donybrx meant he was joking about mja and spm1953 being the same person . . . spm1953 has not posted any retraction of his post about rumors of Murano's impending termination.

[donybrx]

^^^^ Correct, sir:.......

I offer no speculative opinion on serious matters such the Murano's status. It wouldn't occur to me to trivialize that or to play with info.....without actual formal, official foundation behind me.

[CondoGuru]

I did hear AND read about the fact that Opus is selling 1919 Market and Mahoney is selling 1441 Chestnut, but I've never heard any concerns about PNA/TPG and Murano. My Turner buddy said that Turner has been given its own office space at 1 Commerce Square just for Murano, and by the noise I wake up to on a daily basis, I would be shocked if the brakes were being put on this project, because it certainly doesn't look or sound like it. I think everyone's paranoid because they read about 1919, 1441, they see nothing happening at 10 Rittenhouse or MarinaView so there's speculation about every project in the city. Certainly ANYTHING is possible, but Philadelphians will not believe anything until they see a building completed...bottom line. People say a lot of things about projects they know nothing about...most of it's BS.

[volguus zildrohar]

One recurring theme we've heard ever since we've starting seeing these rapid fire announcements of new buildings or conversions is "Not all these projects will be built" and words to that effect. It's a pretty ambitious spread Philadelphia is looking at and it would be quite something if everything on that Rundown list turned green at some point.

[hi123]

i sure hope the rumors of this project beig dead are false!!!! i'm still mourning the loss of my favorite project 1919 market :(

[SouthPhilly]

I'm taking it that you aren't on Phillyblog.

Both spm & I are regulars there, so anybody else that posts between both boards knows full well that we aren't the same person. I am just a mere school teacher, he owns his own economic consulting firm & has held a top post in city government.

I haven't had the pleasure of meeting spm, but I do know enough to take anything he says very seriously.

You hold such high esteem for a person you have only heard about on this forum

Cro you are the king of of Negativeness

[Joey D]

spm1953 has not posted any retraction of his post about rumors of Murano's impending termination.

^^^^ Correct, sir:.......

I offer no speculative opinion on serious matters such the Murano's status. It wouldn't occur to me to trivialize that or to play with info.....without actual formal, official foundation behind me.

Wow, too many big words, here.. I'm getting confused. ;)

Honestly, I seriously doubt Murano is done. If it was, they would have surely put the site prep on the back burner at least until they had finalized the decision, as they are paying these people for what work they do, and wouldn't want to worsen their financial position by continuing paid labor and planning if they weren't sure they were to continue - right?

But, again... I haven't been in Philly since Saturday - I'm sure they didn't work today, as it has been a soaker, so I guess we will find out tomorrow for sure.

[drgoogle]

They are still advertising online via yahoo, msn, and google. Plus, the website says "TOWER" under construction.

[CondoGuru]

It appears as though they are now excavating around the caissons they installed and Madison is on-site getting ready to pour the basement foundation. I wish I had my camera on me this morning...anyone drive by the site this morning?

[hi123]

^ great! That means that the rumors of this one being dead are false! :) :) :)

[Lincolndrive]

It appears as though they are now excavating around the caissons they installed and Madison is on-site getting ready to pour the basement foundation. I wish I had my camera on me this morning...anyone drive by the site this morning?

Yea, I had to walk by myself at lunch today and can confirm that there was a lot of action on the site and big-time excavation around the caissons. For a project that is supposedly being halted, there sure is a lot of work being done.

[Swinefeld]

Yea, I had to walk by myself at lunch today and can confirm that there was a lot of action on the site and big-time excavation around the caissons. For a project that is being supposedly being halted, there sure is a lot of work being done.
I witnessed the aforementioned activity myself this morning.

[RayZ]

Passed by Murano about 11:00 last night. The excavation around the concrete pourings points out how massive they are. I know the building will be about 500 ft., but the number an size of the concrete supports seems out of proportion to its height and mass.

[Lincolndrive]

Passed by Murano about 11:00 last night. The excavation around the concrete pourings points out how massive they are. I know the building will be about 500 ft., but the number an size of the concrete supports seems out of proportion to its height and mass.

Can someone please take a picture of this!?!

[giovanni sasso]

i don't have that per se, lincolndrive, but these two shots are from last night after a trip to trader joe's, where i discovered they no longer carry the prosciutto vodka sauce. :(

http://phillyskyline.com/bldgs/murano/murano_uc011.jpg

http://phillyskyline.com/bldgs/murano/murano_uc012.jpg

[RayZ]

When I passed by the site last night, it looked as if they're starting to erect a construction crane on the north west sector of the building. It was dark and poorly lit, so I can't be sure. Can anyone passing by this today confirm this?

[Pinoy2.0]

I could have sworn I saw a crane from my window (just the tip visible above the "Moore" building (whatever that is), but I went to get my camera and it was gone, or I'm imagining things again.

[Swinefeld]

When I passed by the site last night, it looked as if they're starting to erect a construction crane on the north west sector of the building. It was dark and poorly lit, so I can't be sure. Can anyone passing by this today confirm this?
It looked like they were assembling a steel structure around one of the caissons. Sorry if that's incorrect terminology

The construction pit is getting much deeper.

[Awkab]

[color=navy]i don't have that per se, lincolndrive, but these two shots are from last night after a trip to trader joe's, where i discovered they no longer carry the prosciutto vodka sauce.

Mmmmmm.....that sounds delicious

Now I'm sad I won't ever get to try it

[Pinoy2.0]

I think I should get some type of nominee for being laziest poster...BUT...

http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/8708/img007826lj.jpg

edit: I have the full size shot, but at 2 megs (more or less) it's too big for imageshack.
Also, if you look to the left of that blue mustang, the steel-pipe square fence thing (:)) i think was "stuck-in-the-ground".

[josef]

So those things with the orange things sticking out, these are the 'casions'?
Their hole looks like the American Loft hole, lots of dirt and half-submerged concrete things coming out. My question is, were those concrete things already there, or did they put them in then half-cover them again? (I'm more curious about American Loft, but I'm interested in the case here too.) I've been wondering what the deal was, like if they were there before and they have to get rid of them or something.

[hi123]

ya that thing next to the mustsang on the left hand side definetly looks like the base of a crane to me! :)

[RayZ]

I got down to the site again last night and got a real close look from the Market St. vangtage point. On the West (toward Trader Joe's) the is a large slab of concrete into which the steel crane support is bolted. Its about 10-12 feet high.

[Swinefeld]

Yes, I think that is what it is. It's a crane support.

[sjones]

So those things with the orange things sticking out, these are the 'casions'?
Their hole looks like the American Loft hole, lots of dirt and half-submerged concrete things coming out. My question is, were those concrete things already there, or did they put them in then half-cover them again? (I'm more curious about American Loft, but I'm interested in the case here too.) I've been wondering what the deal was, like if they were there before and they have to get rid of them or something.

I walked by there the other day and I was wondering the exact same thing. It almost seems like those caissons were in the ground already. I saw a back hoe digging around those concrete cylinders but it really seemed like they were being uncovered for some reason. I noticed the base of the crane as well. The drilling machine was working at the back of the site where the garage is going to be located.

[CondoGuru]

Yes, they are clearing dirt around the caissons to pour the foundation. I think what I saw them installing today was the support system for the elevator shaft in the middle of the site.

[RayZ]

Yes, they are clearing dirt around the caissons to pour the foundation. I think what I saw them installing today was the support system for the elevator shaft in the middle of the site.

I noticed that last night- the steel going up in the middle. I aslo think it its probobly the central stack for elevators.

[volguus zildrohar]

I'll be by again tonight. I didn't notice that last night when I went by.

[MJPhilly]

July 8, nothing too interesting
http://www.skyscrapersunset.com/projects/construction/murano/images/0607-01.jpg

[TechTalkGuy]

:previous: Boring. I'd wait until you see something interesting on the site.

[MJPhilly]

We're about information, not entertainment. The level of activity, whether high or low, is of interest to many of us.

[phillyskyline]

Hey MJ, thanx for the update. Glad to see this project is not dead like so many of the naysayers have said previously.

[Swinefeld]

^ Yeah, it looks very lively for a dead project. ;) )

It looks like the steel beams are ready to go in. This thing should start to rise soon.

[Lincolndrive]

It looks like the steel beams are ready to go in. This thing should start to rise soon.

I hope you are right but I spoke with one of the developers back before the caissons were being put in and he said it wouldn't start rising until September/October at the earliest. Perhaps I miss heard something or maybe things got sped up but don't be worried if things don't get out of the ground for a little while longer. I'm just thrilled that there haven't been any more "cancelled project" rumors. That scared the bejesus out of me.

[RayZ]

They have already embedded about eight steel beams into the ground in the center of the site (the stubs are sticking up a foot or two).

I'm under the impression that this building is going to be poured concrete, not steel frame construction.

Will it be steel, concrete, or some of both?

Has anyone noticed the irregular formation of the huge structural supports that have been poured over the last two months? I can't make out the elliptical shape that I would have expected.

[looper121]

I hope you are right but I spoke with one of the developers back before the caissons were being put in and he said it wouldn't start rising until September/October at the earliest. Perhaps I miss heard something or maybe things got sped up but don't be worried if things don't get out of the ground for a little while longer. I'm just thrilled that there haven't been any more "cancelled project" rumors. That scared the bejesus out of me.

The scary thing is that September sounds really far away but it really isn't. Things are prgressing fine. Once the foundation is set up, it will rise quicker than expected. As the case with many high rise constructions. Some time ago, we were concerned with the slow pace of Comcast, but it seems to grow faster everyday. As will be the case with teh Murano once the foundation is in tact...