PHILADELPHIA | The Murano | 475 FT / 145 M | 42 FLOORS

[stampy88]

Anyone been by recently?

[brenster]

http://www.phillyskyline.com/bldgs/murano/i2.htm
Sasso has some more recent pictures on his site.

[omp835]

It seems like construction is moving at a snails pace. They are still doing a lot of site work, but at least the second floor is poured. Maybe more next week:shrug:

[looper121]

It seems like construction is moving at a snails pace. They are still doing a lot of site work, but at least the second floor is poured. Maybe more next week:shrug:

This happens for every new highrise. The basement/first floor is time consuming but once they get up a couple of floors things will move along nicely. I was by today and the first floor is almost complete and you could see the entire footprint of the building...

[bryson662001]

Meet me in the lobby!

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k50/bryson662001/IMG_0330.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k50/bryson662001/IMG_0329.jpg

[Pinoy2.0]

Nice work there Bryson!!

[sciguy0504]

Awesome. Thanks, Bryson!

[LostInTheZone]

I can't wait to see what kind of glass they use on this. I'd love to see something like what they're doing on the Trump Chicago (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=100944&page=53). Check that thread, great-looking design and it looks like the facade is going to be really classy too.

[CondoGuru]

I can't wait to see what kind of glass they use on this. I'd love to see something like what they're doing on the Trump Chicago (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=100944&page=53). Check that thread, great-looking design and it looks like the facade is going to be really classy too.

Me too. I spoke to a saleswoman there who said they will use double-paned, blue-tinted, floor-to-ceiling glass. The larger top panels will be fixed and the lower panels will be operable. Should look incredible with the sunset reflecting off of all that glass!

[CondoGuru]

I think we're going to be seeing a lot more activity in the rental market. I think all of these condos have whetted the appetites of people who want to live downtown but can't afford the condo prices.

Just to give you an update on that, it's official that Southbridge will NOT be a condo. A source who heard directly from Switzenbaum confirmed that IF it even moves forward at all, it will be a rental. IF? WTF???? We better hope they don't leave that shell standing there vacant with the windows blown out...that would NOT be good.

[phillyskyline]

Love those curves Bryson!

[volguus zildrohar]

This building should be quite smashing at sunset. I don't believe the PECO Building is going to rob Murano of any chance to catch all the rays it can and coming off the curved facade, a feature that is virtually non-existant in Center City right now, will be visually refreshing among all the straight lines.

December 3:

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/71160555.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/71160556.jpg

[volguus zildrohar]

December 4:

Because I can...

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/71261398.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/71261399.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/71261400.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/71261401.jpg

[russbaseball]

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n72/russbaseball/murano_2.jpg

[CondoGuru]

great pics VZ! you too Russ! I live around the corner but I'm a lazy bum and haven't found the memory card for my camera yet...lol

[russbaseball]

thanks condoguru. core just moved up to the 3rd floor!! moving rite along...

[Lincolndrive]

I talked to a project manager on site today. He told me that the building will go up 1 floor/week until it reaches the 7th floor (which is the first standard height floor) when it will start going up 1 floor every 3-4 days.

So...does anyone want to do the math to come up with an estimate for when it will top out?

[GarCastle]

Tough math, with a Philly winter and spring coming. We don't exactly have the most predictable weather. With CC going along smoothly, my unimportant attention is definitely focusing on this. Especially with the train passing by it in and out of work.

[Palms]

Those numbers roughly crunch out to 7-8 months until this tops out.

[McBane]

By the first week in Jan it will reach the 7th floor.

Then there are what, another 40 floors give or take? at that time they go to 2 floors per week which is 20 weeks/5 months at the earliest. given that so much of this construction will take place during the cold months, we're looking at probably 6 months; honestly that seems fast, almost too fast.

if what the site manager said was true (and i'm sure he is more informed than i), then it should top off sometime in the summer.

wow next summer. we will have a continuous flow of buildings to 21st st, the CC will be mostly glass, the symphony house will be adding the finishing touches, the RATR should be rising and 10 Ritt will hopefully be where the Murano is now; work should also be well underway for phase two of waterfront square. if 2003-04 was the climax of the condo (buying/selling) boom, 2007 should be the climax of the construction boom.

[phillyskyline]

I agree McBane, this really is the construction boom - you can add all the mid-rises that took place this year: 22 Front Street, 101 Walnut, American Loft, Edgewater & i'm sure a few i'm missing... Hopefully 2007 will be just as exciting.

[russbaseball]

This is from 12.5. sorry about the glare.. but great view of the Murano.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n72/russbaseball/murano-1.jpg

[russbaseball]

much better shot today...

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n72/russbaseball/murano_2-1.jpg

[CondoGuru]

wow, those are great shots! regarding the pace of floors going up...this tower will take much less time to go up than say SH or the St. James, which have outer walls and facade details which are time consuming. Turner doesn't mess around either. They have created custom forms for every angle of the building eliminating the need for extensive carpentry each time a floor is prepped to be poured. You can already see them now..the orange-red forms also guarantee a higher level of uniformity floor by floor with such a complicated curved shape. The second floor spandrel was framed in wood before being poured, but will be steel from here on out.

[skyscraper]

Just to give you an update on that, it's official that Southbridge will NOT be a condo. A source who heard directly from Switzenbaum confirmed that IF it even moves forward at all, it will be a rental. IF? WTF???? We better hope they don't leave that shell standing there vacant with the windows blown out...that would NOT be good.

oohh, that IF is a killer. I am working on a similar project to this one at 315 North 12th st. it is an abandoned industrial building, 10 stories, that we are converting to condos plus adding duplexes on the roof. It's smaller than southbridge, but the same idea. maybe because it is a smaller project it has a better chance of survival.

[mja]

oohh, that IF is a killer. I am working on a similar project to this one at 315 North 12th st. it is an abandoned industrial building, 10 stories, that we are converting to condos plus adding duplexes on the roof. It's smaller than southbridge, but the same idea. maybe because it is a smaller project it has a better chance of survival.

I know exactly what building you are talking about as I used to be a loft district denizen.

I'm happy to hear that there are at least plans to do something with that building, as it would be a key victory for that fledging hood's future. They started doing some facade restoration work a few years back but then promptly stopped.

The shoe factory and 315 N. 12th (is it still going to go by the moniker Skylofts? - ugh, what an awful name) would look just brilliant both lit up inside at night and really add a lot to the feel of a neighborhood N. of Vine.

[skyscraper]

I know exactly what building you are talking about as I used to be a loft district denizen.

I'm happy to hear that there are at least plans to do something with that building, as it would be a key victory for that fledging hood's future. They started doing some facade restoration work a few years back but then promptly stopped.

The shoe factory and 315 N. 12th (is it still going to go by the moniker Skylofts? - ugh, what an awful name) would look just brilliant both lit up inside at night and really add a lot to the feel of a neighborhood N. of Vine.

I don't think it is going to use the Skylofts name, although I don't know what they would use in its place. For now, it's just going by its address.
the facade renovation was stopped because the then-owner ran out of money. that renovation effort was strictly cosmetic, but we have permits to do some real structural restoration. there is a lot of concrete that is crumbling on the facade that we are going to fix. it should be a great project once it gets going.

[mja]

I don't think it is going to use the Skylofts name, although I don't know what they would use in its place. For now, it's just going by its address.
the facade renovation was stopped because the then-owner ran out of money. that renovation effort was strictly cosmetic, but we have permits to do some real structural restoration. there is a lot of concrete that is crumbling on the facade that we are going to fix. it should be a great project once it gets going.

New ownership? Well that was half the battle, as I had heard that group described as NY slumlords.

Any idea on a timetable? Or would that inappropriate for you to comment on?

[CondoGuru]

That would be great for the city in ANY neighborhood. To date, the only TRUE conversions to be completed in the city are Bella Vista Lofts and the Metro Club. They really stripped those suckers down the skeletons and started over with brand-new mechanicals and infrastructure changes. 99% of the other "conversions" were purely cosmetic as you put it. I wouldn't touch those with a ten-foot pole. I'm pretty sure Parc Rittenhouse and Aria will be complete conversions when they're done too....but who knows when that will be. Funny thing is that some of these conversions can take just as long as new construction if they really do it right. Bella Vista Lofts STILL isn't 100% complete with work still going on for those rooftop "villas." They started almost 2 1/2 to 3 years ago! Good quality workmanship is always good for the city in my opinion.

[mja]

That would be great for the city in ANY neighborhood. To date, the only TRUE conversions to be completed in the city are Bella Vista Lofts and the Metro Club. They really stripped those suckers down the skeletons and started over with brand-new mechanicals and infrastructure changes. 99% of the other "conversions" were purely cosmetic as you put it. I wouldn't touch those with a ten-foot pole. I'm pretty sure Parc Rittenhouse and Aria will be complete conversions when they're done too....but who knows when that will be. Funny thing is that some of these conversions can take just as long as new construction if they really do it right. Bella Vista Lofts STILL isn't 100% complete with work still going on for those rooftop "villas." They started almost 2 1/2 to 3 years ago! Good quality workmanship is always good for the city in my opinion.

Generally, I think M&G do a pretty good job with what they do, even if you wouldn't term what they do "true" conversions. They are certainly willing to be pioneers in terms of location. It all depends on price. Some people can't drop 350K on a one bedroom. In one of those fake conversions 300K gets you over 1200 sq. foot.

However, I used to own a unit in one of them (the ultimate fake conversion - the Beaux Arts Lofts) so I understand a bit where you are coming from.

[LostInTheZone]

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n72/russbaseball/murano_2-1.jpg

Wow, this thing has a more complex shape than renderings suggested. They made it look like it was a rectangle with a semicircle on one end; it's turning out to be almost elliptical.

[skyscraper]

New ownership? Well that was half the battle, as I had heard that group described as NY slumlords.

Any idea on a timetable? Or would that inappropriate for you to comment on?

I probably shouldn't comment. We had a tentative schedule, but have run into a few delays. Nothing out of the ordinary, it's just hard to know when we'll get back on track.

[pentopaper50]

Hi everyone -- I found this forum on Google and am very happy that I did. I am about to purchase a 2bed 2bath curved unit in the Murano. I noticed, however, that there is a giant "Choose Blue" sign above Trader Joe's. Does anyone have any idea which floor in the Murano would clear that sign (facing West)?

Also, everything I've seen about this building so far is very promising. None of the other new buildings -- including the Ritz and Mandeville -- have as much style or personality. Of all the Philadelphia buildings in existence or on the drawing board, only the Cira Center can challenge its bold architectural vision. The Ritz uses the same tired "glass box" concept but throws a lot of money at unnecessary details (e.g., valet parking, four doorman instead of two, etc.)

[mja]

Also, everything I've seen about this building so far is very promising. None of the other new buildings -- including the Ritz and Mandeville -- have as much style or personality. Of all the Philadelphia buildings in existence or on the drawing board, only the Cira Center can challenge its bold architectural vision. The Ritz uses the same tired "glass box" concept but throws a lot of money at unnecessary details (e.g., valet parking, four doorman instead of two, etc.)

I can't help you with your question, but I must say that while I like the Murano, I think calling the Ritz a tired glass box and saying that Mandeville doesn't have as much style or personality is completely off.

[looper121]

That's great Pento, I hope you enjoy your new home! What floor are you going to be on?

[bryson662001]

I can't help you with your question, but I must say that while I like the Murano, I think calling the Ritz a tired glass box and saying that Mandeville doesn't have as much style or personality is completely off.

It's funny how everyone makes a different choice but everyone seems really happy with what they choose. We have a guy over on Phillyblog who just bought an overpriced little studio at the Phoenix of all places and he can't stop talking about how it's the greatest building. We even had people who choose Marina View and were so disappointed when it didn't go. Of course I feel the same way about my building although it isn't new. Pentopaper where do you live now?

[apetrella802]

i could be bounded in a nut shell and count myself a king of infinite space WS

[volguus zildrohar]

Hi everyone -- I found this forum on Google and am very happy that I did. I am about to purchase a 2bed 2bath curved unit in the Murano. I noticed, however, that there is a giant "Choose Blue" sign above Trader Joe's. Does anyone have any idea which floor in the Murano would clear that sign (facing West)?

Also, everything I've seen about this building so far is very promising. None of the other new buildings -- including the Ritz and Mandeville -- have as much style or personality. Of all the Philadelphia buildings in existence or on the drawing board, only the Cira Center can challenge its bold architectural vision. The Ritz uses the same tired "glass box" concept but throws a lot of money at unnecessary details (e.g., valet parking, four doorman instead of two, etc.)

You may want a floor at least in the mid-teens to get above the IBX sign.

Most of us are Murano fans but to knock the other towers in the pipeline (particularly Mandeville Place, which I'd rather 9 out of 10 of us would rather see rise, had we our druthers, than Murano) is a bit unfair.

Welcome to our little party.

[McBane]

The Phoenix might not be the greatest building to live in, but it is architectually good looking. Plus, I think it's a great great location. Across the street from Love Park and at the foot of Parkway. Got a view that tourists photograph every day. The beauty and greenery of the Parkway but unlike the Pennsylvanian, Park Towne Place, Art Museum Tower, etc, the Phoenix still enjoys the convinience of Center City, and easy access to Suburban Station, Ave of the Arts, Rittenhouse Sq, Logan Sq, Market East, Chinatown, etc.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, build a condo tower at the parking lot at 15th and Arch. Its proximity to the soon-to-be expanded convention center and the CBD makes 15th and Arch the perfect place for a condo/hotel tower.

This is the Murano thread and I haven't forgotten that. So how is this being built? Will the core rise from the center while steel and glass rise from the current concrete base? I was under the impression only office buildings were constructed in this fashion. If the site manager is correct (and who am I to doubt him) and it will take approximately 6 months to top out (even 7 or 8 with delays) is still too fast for this thing to built out of concrete one floor at a time like the St. James or Symphony House.

[pentopaper50]

.

[donybrx]

uh, oh...it looks as though the "Choose Blue" sign is already affecting your life and you aren't even occupying an apartment that doesn't yet exist; maybe you should rethink this commitment to avoid having that sign irritating your sensibilities 24/7/52........from above it or below it......seriously

Apart from "Choose Blue" the 24th floor ought to be fantastic view wise.....

The sign's gotta be legal. I doubt they would have just taken a gamble with it..............................:haha:

[NEWNANGuy]

this tower is freakin awesome. love it

[mja]

Thanks everyone. I'm looking to sign a contract in the Murano for a curved unit on the 24the floor.

Also, I didn't mean to disparage the Ritz and Mandeville. Both buildings will be great for Philadelphia. The Mandeville is the more architecturally daring of the two...but maybe too much so. It really doesn't blend in with Philly's skyline. And, the Ritz, while fancy, is not really original at all; it's a copy of existing designs. New York is full of buildings that look like the Ritz, including the Ritz Downtown in Battery Park.

Back to that giant "Choose Blue" sign...is it legal to have a giant sign like that on your roof if you're going to block other buildings?

Whether or not it is original, I think it is extremely unfair to call the Ritz a 'tired glass box'. And Mandeville, by most people's judgment, has far more style and personality than the Murano, which is not to disparage the Murano, a building I am a big fan of believe it or not. If I had the dough and didn't have children I'd seriously consider buying there.

As for Choose Blue, that billboard is grandfathered in. At least you can take comfort in the knowledge that it will always be for IBX. At the 24th Floor, I don't think it will come anywhere close to impacting your view.

However, if there is ever a high-rise development on 22nd & Market, that could impact your view significantly, though possibly for the better if it is a decent building.

[drgoogle]

welcome pentopaper. I would not be concerned with the views. Considering that the Murano is in the Heart of the cc skyline, you will NOT get a great view no matter what.

What you are getting, however, is a home in a very beautiful building, in a location close to work, and a surrounding area that will see dramatic improvement in the next 5-7 years.

good luck with your decision.


Thanks everyone. I'm looking to sign a contract in the Murano for a curved unit on the 24the floor.

Also, I didn't mean to disparage the Ritz and Mandeville. Both buildings will be great for Philadelphia. The Mandeville is the more architecturally daring of the two...but maybe too much so. It really doesn't blend in with Philly's skyline. And, the Ritz, while fancy, is not really original at all; it's a copy of existing designs. New York is full of buildings that look like the Ritz, including the Ritz Downtown in Battery Park.

Back to that giant "Choose Blue" sign...is it legal to have a giant sign like that on your roof if you're going to block other buildings?

[CondoGuru]

I have to disagree. I've been to my attorney's office in Commerce One, right next to Murano's construction site, and the views are friggin insane! That is, if one can afford to be high enough to get such a view. But I think this building will have the best views of just about any new building goin up right now. Even if someone builds a highrise on 22nd and Market, that won't block city or river views, just the view of the PECO tower, and that would be a GOOD thing in my opinion. But on Philly VII, I read somewhere that Thomas Properties is proposing a low-rise restaurant/retail square on the PECO surface lot at 22nd and Market. Anybody know anything more detailed about that? We really need something like that for Logan Square, because we've got diddly-squat save Trader Joe's.

[relnahe]

I have to disagree. I've been to my attorney's office in Commerce One, right next to Murano's construction site, and the views are friggin insane! That is, if one can afford to be high enough to get such a view. But I think this building will have the best views of just about any new building goin up right now. Even if someone builds a highrise on 22nd and Market, that won't block city or river views, just the view of the PECO tower, and that would be a GOOD thing in my opinion. But on Philly VII, I read somewhere that Thomas Properties is proposing a low-rise restaurant/retail square on the PECO surface lot at 22nd and Market. Anybody know anything more detailed about that? We really need something like that for Logan Square, because we've got diddly-squat save Trader Joe's.

And you'll continue having diddly-squat with the LGNA and some of your angry neighbors who hate progress.

[apetrella802]

for what it's worth the Murano web site has a tab on VIEWS

http://www.themuranocondominium.com/

[CondoGuru]

And you'll continue having diddly-squat with the LGNA and some of your angry neighbors who hate progress.

We hate progress? I wasn't aware of that reputation...lol We approved of Murano, 1919 Market, Cherry Street West... Hmmm, didn't know we've garnered such an honor!

[Swinefeld]

We hate progress? I wasn't aware of that reputation...lol We approved of Murano, 1919 Market, Cherry Street West... Hmmm, didn't know we've garnered such an honor!
Relnahe is referring to River City and the LSNA that vehemently opposed it. I heard it was an embarrassing display of NIMBYism. CG, you should go to the next meeting.

[CondoGuru]

Relnahe is referring to River City and the LSNA that vehemently opposed it. I heard it was an embarrassing display of NIMBYism. CG, you should go to the next meeting.

I know what he's talking about and I am absolutely opposed to River City as well. I live here, you don't!!! Would you want a cluster of monster highrises putting your little townhouse in the dark? I think not. Furthermore, it is intellectually dishonest to accuse LSNA of NIMBYism when we've approved some fantastic buildings in our area, some of which are being built as we speak. Ritt-wilers we are NOT. Look, I realize we all have a desire for this city to be world-class and to see inspiring projects take flight is just as exciting for me as it is for you. Instead of booing and hissing at LSNA for not wanting this in our backyard, maybe step back for a second and think about the character of that neighborhood and whether or not you'd want it in your backyard as well. Just a thought.

[*sweetkisses*]

I know what he's talking about and I am absolutely opposed to River City as well. I live here, you don't!!! Would you want a cluster of monster highrises putting your little townhouse in the dark? I think not. Furthermore, it is intellectually dishonest to accuse LSNA of NIMBYism when we've approved some fantastic buildings in our area, some of which are being built as we speak. Ritt-wilers we are NOT. Look, I realize we all have a desire for this city to be world-class and to see inspiring projects take flight is just as exciting for me as it is for you. Instead of booing and hissing at LSNA for not wanting this in our backyard, maybe step back for a second and think about the character of that neighborhood and whether or not you'd want it in your backyard as well. Just a thought.
Overall, the projects that the Logan residents approved are underwhelming (with the exception on the Murano).
Since you are a Logan resident, what kind of development do you and the other Logan residents want?

[relnahe]

I know what he's talking about and I am absolutely opposed to River City as well. I live here, you don't!!! Would you want a cluster of monster highrises putting your little townhouse in the dark? I think not. Furthermore, it is intellectually dishonest to accuse LSNA of NIMBYism when we've approved some fantastic buildings in our area, some of which are being built as we speak. Ritt-wilers we are NOT. Look, I realize we all have a desire for this city to be world-class and to see inspiring projects take flight is just as exciting for me as it is for you. Instead of booing and hissing at LSNA for not wanting this in our backyard, maybe step back for a second and think about the character of that neighborhood and whether or not you'd want it in your backyard as well. Just a thought.

I can't believe such a NIMBY who hates progress posts on this forum. We as a city need to think huge, we deserve it! Logan Square is the most backwards and lifeless neighborhood in CC. It takes neighborhood groups to open past 5pm. LSNA demanded the Murano not have retail along the garage part of the building, the neighborhood that thought edgecrapwater was a good idea. The residents fought for the ugliest parking garage built for "the big ugly". Porn shops are okay, any other retail...bad. Hell they should rename Edgewater, Backwater so everyone would know when entering the neighborhood.

A lot of Logan Square is post-war buildings. They should not have been built along and in the cbd of one the largest cities in the country with low rise housing. Why do you live in such a location if you hate towers. Move to the damn burbs! Ah sunlight...give me a break. You're only freaking out because the neighborhood is (freaking out). You feel its some civic duty to do as well. If the neighborhood was against Comcast which is very close you'd be against it too!

I get so pissed about NIMBYism but when a bold project that will bring this city so much further...I explode!

[SouthPhilly]

I can see Guru's opinion, but river city is really not apart of logan circle, its on market west. Market West is a business sector and the sunlight argument is Bullshit. Sunlight come from the east and west, not the south.

[drgoogle]

agreed, NIMBYs suck.

I can see Guru's opinion, but river city is really not apart of logan circle, its on market west. Market West is a business sector and the sunlight argument is Bullshit. Sunlight come from the east and west, not the south.

[mja]

I can see Guru's opinion, but river city is really not apart of logan circle, its on market west. Market West is a business sector and the sunlight argument is Bullshit. Sunlight come from the east and west, not the south.

Uh, we are in the northern hemisphere, so the sun, while it tracks east to west, most certainly is south.

That said, you don't live in the Central Business District of a major metropolitan area and then think you can block tall buildings. If you can't construct tall buildings here, where the hell can you build them?

[skyscraper]

I can see Guru's opinion, but river city is really not apart of logan circle, its on market west. Market West is a business sector and the sunlight argument is Bullshit. Sunlight come from the east and west, not the south.

only at sunrise and sunset. the sun travels from the east across the southern sky (in the northern hemisphere) to set in the west.
but you're right, the sunlight argument is bullshit. the profile of the buildings looks to be such that it won't be that big of a deal. and if it is, well, that's one thing you have to expect when you live in the middle of a dense downtown like ours. do you hear people in midtown manhattan or downtown Chicago whining about lack of sunlight? hell no, even when new buildings go up. they accept it as part of living in a major downtown.

[CondoGuru]

The funny thing about people on this thread is when they start launching personal attacks on people they don't even know about some buildings that will probably never even get built anyway! And they probably live in Narberth to boot! lol How many buildings that were APPROVED are no longer being built? Not because of some neighborhood association, but because demand for condos was not there and the projects were cancelled? MarinaView, 1919 Market, World Trade Square, 101 Sky, Trump, etc... Remember that tram that was built for the Bicentennial on Market Street that was NEVER used? Or the fact that Liberty Two has so many commerical vacancies that they're converting the top to condos? Who the hell is going to fill 3,600 more condos and even more office space with record vacancies? This thread is about MURANO, so why don't we get back to that topic and not some retarded Jetsons fantasy, eh?

[relnahe]

The funny thing about people on this thread is when they start launching personal attacks on people they don't even know about some buildings that will probably never even get built anyway! And they probably live in Narberth to boot! lol

Actually I live closer to where Bridgman's View, you know where that 900+ tower that was largely approved that is far away from the cbd, then many LS residents live near the River City project.

How many buildings that were APPROVED are no longer being built? Not because of some neighborhood association, but because demand for condos was not there and the projects were cancelled? MarinaView, 1919 Market, World Trade Square, 101 Sky, Trump, etc... Remember that tram that was built for the Bicentennial on Market Street that was NEVER used? Or the fact that Liberty Two has so many commerical vacancies that they're converting the top to condos? Who the hell is going to fill 3,600 more condos and even more office space with record vacancies?

So you're backtracking saying "Oh a number of projects never get built". I don't feel that is a justifiable cop-out to what you posted. The project here goes beyond whether or not the developer makes it or not. It is a testament to the forward thinking and progress which is now going on in this great city. We need more people with bold ideas...and less rude people who want to rip those to shreds for thinking this way.

[CondoGuru]

Actually I live closer to where Bridgman's View, you know where that 900+ tower that was largely approved that is far away from the cbd, then many LS residents live near the River City project.



So you're backtracking saying "Oh a number of projects never get built". I don't feel that is a justifiable cop-out to what you posted. The project here goes beyond whether or not the developer makes it or not. It is a testament to the forward thinking and progress which is now going on in this great city. We need more people with bold ideas...and less rude people who want to rip those to shreds for thinking this way.

It's "rude" to have an opinion opposite of yours? You need to go back to kindergarten and learn how to speak like an adult rather than hurling insults at people you don't even know. You don't live here, therefore it doesn't affect you, so you don't give a shit what happens to someone else's neighborhood. And we're not talking about ONE tower near you, we're talking about TEN towers. Enough with the personal insults, take your meds, and let's get back to discussing a building that's actually under construction now...the Murano. Shall we?

[donybrx]

exellent idea...this is starting to sound like a NYC thread.......Philly forumers have heretofore been generally more reasonable...better discussants.....

[McBane]

I'm sorry but I don't see how or why these neighborhood associations dicate development. Sure they should have a voice, but let's face is, many proposed projects ESPECIALLY RIVER CITY have a huge impact on the city as a whole. It goes well beyond the desires of a few neighbors - some of whom may be living in the suburbs or even dead by the time this project breaks ground. These projects have a much larger and longer impact on the city than narrow minded residents.

Again, it's not to say that they shouldn't have an opinion, but to play dictator as if they will be living in the neighborhood forever is unfair to future generations and the overall growth of the city.

Sorry but LS abuts the CBD of a very large city and it's not 1970 anymore - Philly is growing and I may add, for the better. Part of that growth involves high rise buildings and JFK and Arch streets are reasonable locations for the expansion of the CBD. If you don't like it move. You don't have to go to the suburbs as others suggested. There are many many low rise neighborhoods in Philly, the Art Museum area is nearby and nice. Fitler Square, Society Hill and Queen Village are just as nice and low rise.

Make me think of something. I wonder how many residents of LS like living there because of the proximity to the CBD?

Anyway, the Murano - up to the 2nd floor and looking awesome.

[Cro Burnham]

I'm sorry but I don't see how or why these neighborhood associations dicate development. Sure they should have a voice, but let's face is, many proposed projects ESPECIALLY RIVER CITY have a huge impact on the city as a whole.

The image you see of River City is a pure fantasy that will never happen. This is not a serious development proposal, just a marketing ploy. So it will have NO impact. It is simply not worth getting worked up about. We really should drop it.

[McBane]

Regardless, it's the principal. As long as the future of this city is held hostage by narrow minded residents who are only thinking about the short term (i.e. how this will impact THEM), no projects (real or imaginable) will ever move forward.

[donybrx]

:stunned: (... speaking of being held hostage.....):stunned:

any new Murano shots?

[Philly-Drew]

Welcome aboard pentopaper50. I think you made a great decision. I think the Murano is an absolutely fantastic building and you are making a sound investment.

I’d love to see more photos. (hint, hint, hint,) ;)

[drgoogle]

Its sad to think that LS residents are opposed to skyscrapers in the center of a Business District of a magor US city. Its sad that lowlife politicians like Darell Clark impose unfathomable height restrictions on an entire region of a ctiy in the name of appeasing the few. Its sad that we are not giving the possibility of tourists, jobs, and visitors to our city. This developer wants to spend billions of his own dollars to build and we (LS residents) are saying no. This is soo sad. Kinda sad to think this city is primarily filled with public sector and blue-collar jobs. It has the geographic and investor support other cities would die for. Unfortunately, its demographics are the problem. Anyways, I digress. Back to the Murano.

[Lecom]

Those floor plates look pretty small.

[GarCastle]

I like the Murano-design and look forward to it growing over the next several/many months. That being said, I can go off-topic now!

I bought a house in the burbs because there are no affordable condos in Philly where I would want to live. Maybe they do not build them because anything under $300k is not as profitable to build, maybe the unions see to that, or maybe neighborhood associations make it too much of a hassle so they just build in another city.

I would never buy a home in a homeowners association area, period. I have no respect for neighbors who would try to tell me what I can or cannot do with my home. F them, it's MY home. Obviously I should not coat my lawn with trash, bury nuclear waste, burn mattresses in the backyard, etc. - those things are for the governments to decide and enforce. What color my house is, how tall it is, and so forth should not be the decision of my neighbors and vice versa.

This is really ALL about "vice versa" and "do unto your neighbor as you would have them do unto you". So I would hope that CG's neighbors could not shoot down his plans for fixing up his place, adding a floor, turning his garage into living space, or any other thing that he wanted to do with HIS home. On the same note, he should not have a say in what they do either.

(I guess an important distinction here is that we are talking about Philly which is retarded beyond belief when it comes to building codes. Plenty of examples are probably in everyone's mind but for any that cannot think of any - please see the earlier comcast urinal issue, or go to www.thehiddenreef.com and see how probably the best fish store in Philly had to move out of the city due to getting F'd by the city permit fools. So much for that million a year in sales tax - guess Philly did not need that money - one less reason to go to Philly for thousands of folks a month.)

I went out to KoP mall area yesterday to buy a table since it had to be in person to use a new-homeowner coupon. It boggles the mind how King of Prussia can apparently attract all the businesses presumably with good tax laws for businesses yet places that had them are so impossibly slow to adapt to changing markets (manufacturing vs service, etc.) like Philly. Manufacturing jobs are gone now so Philly needs to adapt to thrive. It's almost like the city government refuses to acknowledge that it should be catering to businesses that want to stay or move in. The business districts are so F'd up with absolutely no residential nearby so there are no food places after strict business breakfast/lunch timeframes, Center City or West Philly. At 3pm the deli's shutdown and the trucks all leave. Forget about dinner if you have to work late. So then who would want to live in an area with no restaurants nearby, etc.?

Philly is like Sim City gone bad. I think most of us picked up the concept in Sim City that putting commercial and residential near each other was a good thing. Not to mention terrible highway access. Eminent domain is a scarey thing but maybe Philly needs to use it to fix some serious layout issues.

/soap box off now.

[volguus zildrohar]

Lecom, the building is slender and has a footprint of a similar size as another slender highrise a few blocks away.

December 15:

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/71812281.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/71812282.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/71812283.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/71812284.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/71812285.jpg

December 17:

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/71812300.jpg

[sjones]

Things seem to be moving pretty slow. There is no way they are pouring one floor a week here like they are at CC. Does anyone think the pace will pick up as they move forward?

I am still trying to figure out how they are going to raise the height of that crane. It seems to be a fixed height crane from my perspective.

[omp835]

I'm sorry but I don't see how or why these neighborhood associations dicate development. Sure they should have a voice, but let's face is, many proposed projects ESPECIALLY RIVER CITY have a huge impact on the city as a whole. It goes well beyond the desires of a few neighbors - some of whom may be living in the suburbs or even dead by the time this project breaks ground. These projects have a much larger and longer impact on the city than narrow minded residents.

Agreed, but when there is no real leadership, everyone tries to take charge.
The image you see of River City is a pure fantasy that will never happen. This is not a serious development proposal, just a marketing ploy. So it will have NO impact. It is simply not worth getting worked up about. We really should drop it.
It's not fantasy. You must understand that this is not a proposal to build buildings, rather they are attempting to assemble the land, buy the air rights, get the zoning the approvals....And then sell the parsels to the developers who intend to actually build.
The problem is: the City Planning Commision should be spearheading this initiative not private developers. I completely support this project. It's unfourtunate that the Planning Commision is soooo far behind where they should be (they are still working on the Delaware Waterfront) that they are not ready to deal with a project of this magnitude. So that is why Darell Clark is wise to impose the stupid height limit, for the time being.
But this is a great project from an urban design standpoint. They are calling for highrises on the major axis from the train station to Center City. 30th street station is the center of Megalopolis, according to Edmond Bacon. And the city is looking for ways to connect Center City to West Philly and make it a continuous experience. I can't think of more appropriate, reasonable, and future looking project.
Sorry Logan Square, it is your neighborhood that is poorly located. Personally, I would demo the entire neighborhood, west of 22nd street and zone it for highrises. Eminent Domain Bitches!!!
Fantasy aside,you guys are holding back the city Your only argument is sunlight even though the shadow studies say otherwise. Give it up now lest you embarrass yourselves 10 years from now when you are enjoying the vitality and shopping options in and around the 30th street area.

[omp835]

D.p.

[buildup]

omp835, these kind of people are incapable of embarrassment. In 10 years they will be boasting how THEY made River City happen!

[CondoGuru]

Great MURANO pics VZ! It looks like they're working west to east on one floor, then east to west on another. They're on the 3rd floor now on the curved side, working their way back to the 21st Street side. Excellent shots!

[volguus zildrohar]

Today was the first time I saw the elevator shaft from Arch Street.

I'm hoping this building doesn't lose too much "character" on the flat eastern front. The St. James takes a decided dip south in the style department on its southern flat face (at the crows in particular) and following a graceful curve to a flat stop...it's not a pleasant effect visually. Thankfully, that narrow slit of 21st Street will generally hide it.

And I'm gonna keep hope alive, brotha.

[CondoGuru]

They raised the core to the 4th floor a few days ago. I keep missing it dammit! Has anyone actually caught them in the act of raising the core. What does it look like when that core contraption comes off?

[pentopaper50]

They raised the core to the 4th floor a few days ago. I keep missing it dammit! Has anyone actually caught them in the act of raising the core. What does it look like when that core contraption comes off?


Are they using a new type of scaffolding? Any architects or engineers on the forum? I've never quite seen any building being built with these yellow and orange support planks. They look rubbery almost.

Also, I'm happy to report that I've put down my initial 10% and am now in contract for a curved 2bed 2bath unit about half way up the building. The sales person says that 60% of the building is now under contract but that they're waiting to release the penthouse and some of the "special" units on the higher floors. I guess people will pay more as the building gets closer to completion. I'm excited!!!!! This will be great for Philadelphia.

Do you guys think those porn shops will ever get torn down? What an eyesore! If the city is serious about building up Center City into a worldclass business/residential district, it needs to zone out those shops and bring more street life into the area. What's disappointing is that the Murano is planning to lease their commercial space to a high-end furniture store. I think that's a bad idea because it wouldn't create a lot of pedesterian traffic in the area. It would be better to try to bring in a high-end restaurant, an electronic store like Best Buy, or even a book store like Borders or Barnes & Nobles.

Your thoughts....?

[skyscraper]

Are they using a new type of scaffolding? Any architects or engineers on the forum? I've never quite seen any building being built with these yellow and orange support planks. They look rubbery almost.



I'm an architect. the core of this building, like the comcast center, is being built with poured concrete. therefore, they need forms to pour the concrete into. they hoist the same forms every floor so that the core will remain uniform throughout. typically, the forms are made of wood joined with metal joints. this is the most flexible, strong, and economic way to pour a concrete core. I don't know much about the construction about this building in particular, but from the photos it seems pretty typical for a concrete building so far, so I think we can assume they are using a system like the one I just described.

[TechTalkGuy]

Update: 12/21/2006
Murano
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7647/murano1tl2.jpg

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6760/murano2bn8.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/9808/murano3fl6.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/351/murano4cc9.jpg

[drgoogle]

Congratulation pentopaper! Thats great news! The fact that the building is 60% sold is also very good. Shows that there is still demand for quality construction in the city.

As an aside, do you know what the smallest 1BRs are going for right now? Actual price or per square foot. Thanks!


Are they using a new type of scaffolding? Any architects or engineers on the forum? I've never quite seen any building being built with these yellow and orange support planks. They look rubbery almost.

Also, I'm happy to report that I've put down my initial 10% and am now in contract for a curved 2bed 2bath unit about half way up the building. The sales person says that 60% of the building is now under contract but that they're waiting to release the penthouse and some of the "special" units on the higher floors. I guess people will pay more as the building gets closer to completion. I'm excited!!!!! This will be great for Philadelphia.

Do you guys think those porn shops will ever get torn down? What an eyesore! If the city is serious about building up Center City into a worldclass business/residential district, it needs to zone out those shops and bring more street life into the area. What's disappointing is that the Murano is planning to lease their commercial space to a high-end furniture store. I think that's a bad idea because it wouldn't create a lot of pedesterian traffic in the area. It would be better to try to bring in a high-end restaurant, an electronic store like Best Buy, or even a book store like Borders or Barnes & Nobles.

Your thoughts....?

[pentopaper50]

Congratulation pentopaper! Thats great news! The fact that the building is 60% sold is also very good. Shows that there is still demand for quality construction in the city.

As an aside, do you know what the smallest 1BRs are going for right now? Actual price or per square foot. Thanks!

I'm not sure, Doc. I only asked about the 2 bedrooms, but I think you could probably land one for about $400k on a lower floor. The cost will vary by floor and view. The good news though is that even the smallest one bedroom is still relatively spacious. They also have a 1 bedroom/1.5 bath units that are intriguing. They're a little more expensive than the 1 bedrooms but significantly less than the two's. You also get more square footage.


Actually, the best value deal in the building if you're looking purely for space are the square two bed/two bath units on the Southeast side. Because the views are partially blocked by the Commerce building, the prices are significantly less than the curved-shaped units on the same floor (which, to be fair, are also about 200 sq. ft larger.)

Lastly, I think the one bedrooms will go pretty fast because they're relatively affordable, and thus, very rentable for a profit or at least a break-even price in the short-term.

I hope this helps. Happy holidays!

[sjones]

I think there is a good chance this building will be close to sold out by the time it opens. They have two years to sell the remaining 40% of the units and by 2008 the real estate market might even be on the upswing again. Cant wait to see the crane towering over the site.

[16520Man]

As an aside, do you know what the smallest 1BRs are going for right now? Actual price or per square foot. Thanks!

Residence 01 on floor 18=$530K
Parking space = $40K

[newtophilly]

i feel a bit silly about writing this but.. I signed a contract in early '06, probably at the very top of the market. I have a few questions.... as anyone had any luck negotiating prices down after signing a contract (obviously the market has come in a bit) or cancelling the contract outright? I bought a 2 bed, northeast view. I would love to hold on a see how it goes but at the same time I feel as though "top ticked" the market. Has anyone seen the progression (regression) of prices in the murano over the last year? any help , suggestion etc would be very helpful...many thx

[drgoogle]

I think this building was priced to perfection. Neither the builder nor purchaser will make significant profits or losses on these units in the short-term.

- Good news: Prices for 1BRs at the Murano from opening day have not decreased.
- Bad News: Prices for 1BRs are only up like 2-4% from opening day. I bought mine at 365K in late 2005 ($461/sqft) and according to the last post, that seems about right given the lower floor.
- Silver Lining: Parking. Thomas Properties was negotiating discounted parking for 25K for a little while despite advertising 40K. This was a nice little extra if you got in early.

Conclusion: I doubt you overpaid given the going prices BUT the best way to find out is to ask here the going rate for a similar 2BR. What was your units price/sqftg/floor?



i feel a bit silly about writing this but.. I signed a contract in early '06, probably at the very top of the market. I have a few questions.... as anyone had any luck negotiating prices down after signing a contract (obviously the market has come in a bit) or cancelling the contract outright? I bought a 2 bed, northeast view. I would love to hold on a see how it goes but at the same time I feel as though "top ticked" the market. Has anyone seen the progression (regression) of prices in the murano over the last year? any help , suggestion etc would be very helpful...many thx

[drgoogle]

Thanks 16520Man! Anybody else know what a lower floor 1BR unit is today?
Residence 01 on floor 18=$530K
Parking space = $40K

[JOVIMECARCH]

thanks for share de construction

[newtophilly]

hi..thanks for you reply. My 2 bd comes out to be about $532 per sq. foot,northeast view from a high floor.......a bit higher on avg than yours. i don't mind as long as other people aren't cutting deals after signing. i will continue to dig.

[newtophilly]

anyone have any recent prices on what 2 bedrooms are going for at the Murano? Has anyone had any luck negotiating with the sales folks after signing a contract? Sorry for the duplicate entry.

[truebeliever]

hello everyone. very happy to have learned about this site. i've purchased a 2br nw corner late 2005 and am very excited about living at the murano. i also love the location with easy access to everything in cc as well as to the train stations, kelly drive, and the expressway. someone earlier on this blog expressed a degree of disappointment at potential plans for a furniture retailer to be on the ground floor... i am similarly disappointed if, indeed, this is true. it would be nice if at least a small portion would be reserved for a cafe, coffee shop, etc. to enhance a communal environment. a friend of mine lived in an upscale condo in charlestown, mass., just across the bay from boston, and there was a wonderful little coffee shop there that sold newspapers, coffee, great baked goods and (?)maybe some sandwiches. they did a great business and it definitely added to the attractiveness of the building. perhaps our developers would consider something like this at a price that would make it possible for such a business to survive. i think it would enhance value and probably increase profits to the developers in the long run.

[Swinefeld]

Hey, congratulations. I can't help but think that once the Murano is finished and occupied that there will be a flurry of new construction around 21st and Market.

Picture from earlier today.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/Miscellanious/MuranoDecember06.jpg

[Lecom]

hello everyone. very happy to have learned about this site. i've purchased a 2br nw corner late 2005 and am very excited about living at the murano. i also love the location with easy access to everything in cc as well as to the train stations, kelly drive, and the expressway. someone earlier on this blog expressed a degree of disappointment at potential plans for a furniture retailer to be on the ground floor... i am similarly disappointed if, indeed, this is true. it would be nice if at least a small portion would be reserved for a cafe, coffee shop, etc. to enhance a communal environment. a friend of mine lived in an upscale condo in charlestown, mass., just across the bay from boston, and there was a wonderful little coffee shop there that sold newspapers, coffee, great baked goods and (?)maybe some sandwiches. they did a great business and it definitely added to the attractiveness of the building. perhaps our developers would consider something like this at a price that would make it possible for such a business to survive. i think it would enhance value and probably increase profits to the developers in the long run.

Welcome. What floor is your new 2br on?

[truebeliever]

Thanks. I'm on the 28th floor.

[pentopaper50]

I have been tracking Murano prices since the building first hit the market and am fairly certain that the prices have gone up since the original offering. However, I agree with a previous comment: the prices have not gone up significantly, so I am not really seeing a true "first mover advantage" except for the fact that the best units are being gobbled up (of the ones they've released, that is).

On another point, it would be great if everyone who bought into the Murano had some influence on how the commercial space would be used. If upscale buildings in New York are any standard, French cafes would be a good choice. Or, how about another giant porn shop? Kidding... ;0):haha:

Happy New Year everyone.

[CondoGuru]

One would think that if that building is almost 60% sold, and one of only two, maybe three new construction highrises being built in the city at all, that they more than likely won't be negotiating on anything because they don't have to. You could probably negotiate on an existing condo, or a condo conversion since there are plenty of those, but this just isn't in the same category. I bought a unit in the American Loft, and even over there, they aren't negotiating anything. I looked at the Murano before I bought in American Loft and I love the look of the building, but it was just out of my price range, even then. They're not giving anything away. My feeling is that if you got in, you're ahead. I doubt this building will have anything left when it's done.

[Eigenwelt]

Pentopaper, you're not thinking big...

Why not a palatial porn palace WITH a fancy french coffee cafe? That way you could get your copy of Jugs magazine and your espresso at the same time!

They could call it... hmm... what about, Grandes & Grandes? ;)

[CondoGuru]

Pentopaper, you're not thinking big...

Why not a palatial porn palace WITH a fancy french coffee cafe? That way you could get your copy of Jugs magazine and your espresso at the same time!

They could call it... hmm... what about, Grandes & Grandes? ;)

Ha! That's hilarious. Why not a more upscale place like Scores??? That could be pretty cool!

[drgoogle]

Agreed. I wonder what people will do with their former deposits once they get them back from places like MarinaView, 1441, OldCity205, etc. You would think they would have to seriosuly consider the Murano.


One would think that if that building is almost 60% sold, and one of only two, maybe three new construction highrises being built in the city at all, that they more than likely won't be negotiating on anything because they don't have to. You could probably negotiate on an existing condo, or a condo conversion since there are plenty of those, but this just isn't in the same category. I bought a unit in the American Loft, and even over there, they aren't negotiating anything. I looked at the Murano before I bought in American Loft and I love the look of the building, but it was just out of my price range, even then. They're not giving anything away. My feeling is that if you got in, you're ahead. I doubt this building will have anything left when it's done.

[JDM0809]

Does anyone know how much they are requiring you to put down to sign a contract? Also, how much are parking spaces going for??? Design looks like nothing I have seen before in this city... Start in the right direction.

[brenster]

I called about 6 months ago,, they wanted 10% down due at signing of the contract.. 5k down to reserve.. the parking spots i think were 45k.. i could be wrong on that.. from what i remember .. they were willing to deal on that.