BC Place: Stadium Refurbishment | Completed

[gardenparty]

If that last post was directed at me, and I believe it was, I'm not towerguy. But thanks for the welcome. You know how to make a first time poster feel welcome. :rolleyes:

It was just a simple question really. While I haven't navigated my way through all 25 pages, I did notice that Hed Kandi (sp?) and East Van Mark expressed the same concerns with the small opening for this type of expenditure (on or about pg 18), so I'm hardly alone with this opinion.

However, if you'd rather stick to the notion that every new poster here is an adversary in disguise, go right ahead. I won't come back to bother you.

Bye.

[nova9]

If that last post was directed at me, and I believe it was, I'm not towerguy. But thanks for the welcome. You know how to make a first time poster feel welcome. :rolleyes:

It was just a simple question really. While I haven't navigated my way through all 25 pages, I did notice that Hed Kandi (sp?) and East Van Mark expressed the same concerns with the small opening for this type of expenditure (on or about pg 18), so I'm hardly alone with this opinion.

However, if you'd rather stick to the notion that every new poster here is an adversary in disguise, go right ahead. I won't come back to bother you.

Bye.

Actually, I don't believe that post was directed at you so no need to be defensive.

If you had read all the entries above, you'll be able to decipher the conversation mr. x2 and several other members were having about a banned member/troll.

This is the effect that that moron has had on this forum where fellow forumers are going to have to be suspicious with new posters. I don't think anyone needs to apologize for it but we all only have towerguy/orangevest to thank for this.

And to be honest, your first post read like something that would come out of that guy's mouth (or fingers as it were).

[raggedy13]

Gardenparty, don't mind Cypherus. Some people have just been a little on edge because towerguy has been quite persistent about sneaking back on to the forum as of late and it just so happens that you've picked a rather inopportune time and less than ideal thread to make your first post in. If you want to prove you're not towerguy then I suggest you distance yourself from this thread and the Shangri-La thread for awhile. ;) If you were towerguy, I don't think you could hide it for long anyways, that guy is a kook. :koko:

And not to alarm you, but you're likely going to be watched quite closely by all for the time being until our collective suspicions have been eased. So... just try to act natural. :D

[mr.x]

If that last post was directed at me, and I believe it was, I'm not towerguy. But thanks for the welcome. You know how to make a first time poster feel welcome. :rolleyes:

It was just a simple question really. While I haven't navigated my way through all 25 pages, I did notice that Hed Kandi (sp?) and East Van Mark expressed the same concerns with the small opening for this type of expenditure (on or about pg 18), so I'm hardly alone with this opinion.

However, if you'd rather stick to the notion that every new poster here is an adversary in disguise, go right ahead. I won't come back to bother you.

Bye.

I think his post was directed at the comments I made about towerguy/yellowvest, not yours. Unfortunately, that's the aftermath of whole towerguy/yellowvest debacle and to a lesser extent, the northwest2k debacle. Both are monstrous trolls, particularly towerguy, and they've moved their postings to GamesBids.com. Since that forum almost never gets moderated, they've both basically destroyed the Vancouver 2010 section over there....GamesBids has become a waste bin for the trash thrown out by Skyscraperpage. The members over there are getting quite pissed off at both of them.

Everyone is on their toes here and that's a part of the aftermath.


On a much lighter and relevant note, cool pics of maintenance/construction workers on the fluffy dome (from FLICKR, taken on Dec. 23):
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3294/3132868820_3986deba4e_b.jpg


View of the Olympic Village
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3098/3132043595_75600cddb1_b.jpg


Attenna
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3225/3132050513_f2671ee38f_b.jpg

A GPS system, not exactly sure what for...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3114/3132049745_767c585e88_b.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3206/3132047649_074a69c90d_b.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3230/3132871274_aa5f63ca73_b.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3230/3132872052_33d701f013_b.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3251/3132044381_040a196a04_b.jpg


Wow.....i wish i could stretch my legs and do that.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3223/3132048557_253a0b3dbf_b.jpg



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3207/3132034663_ccbdae7ea4_b.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3218/3132039763_0a31793ace_b.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3211/3132031971_957d40c9f1_b.jpg



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3117/3132041313_472144b372_b.jpg



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3012/3132029399_d2b39094aa_b.jpg



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/3132032867_53dd7329ea_b.jpg



The railing at the rim of the roof....also take notice of the lights that are hanging from the railing, which are turned on at night (last picture). It would be cool if new and brighter lights with changing colours could be put in place for 2010 (one by one they change to the same colour).
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3240/3132852152_54af2e8fe6_b.jpg



Before the big snowfall
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3209/3112103023_9b8771f857_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/3112932394_3f071c8ac8_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3155/3112115037_a370ff0df8_b.jpg

[nova9]

that's awesome Mr. X2!!!

I'm pretty sure I know the answer but do they allow non-workers to go up there...for a fee?

[mr.x]

that's awesome Mr. X2!!!

I'm pretty sure I know the answer but do they allow non-workers to go up there...for a fee?

Off the top of my head guesses: changing elevation of the roof? movement of the roof?

One thing for sure, the heating system was definitely turned on.:tup:

I highly doubt they let the general public up there, for both safety and security concerns.

[fever]

Looks like a moguls course

[ravman]

uh visitors on the roof... NO...trust me "random visitors" are also not allowed in all areas of the stadium anyway so yeah.....


btw the lights on the railing could be retrofitted with LED or something "Greener/ Brighter "

[crazyjoeda]

I know a guy who did some work up there after it deflated. I saw his pics on facebook I wonder if he was up there again.

[ravman]

Snow challenges BC Place roof
By Bob Mackin January 6, 2009 07:00 am

The Grinch almost made a pre-Christmas appearance at B.C. Place Stadium.

On Dec. 17, workers scrambled to manually open dampers so that the air-supported fabric roof's snow melting system could work during a snowstorm.

On Dec. 19, the roof alarm activated when air pressure plummeted to 180 pascal around 11:45 a.m.

General manager Howard Crosley said "the roof was never in trouble."

He did admit that construction workers involved with the building's pre-Olympic renovation have accidentally removed pneumatic lines that feed the roof's air supply in separate incidents.

"The snow melt system is working fine, the actual dampers are propped open, so we're not having any problems," Crosley said.

Two years ago, on Jan. 5, 2007, the snow melting system was not used during a morning snowstorm. Heavy, wet snow that collected on the roof avalanched and ripped the fabric, causing it to collapse. It was repaired and re-inflated two weeks later, but not before attracting global media attention because the stadium will host the opening and closing ceremonies of the 2010 Winter Olympics.

Reports published almost a year later by Geiger Engineers and the stadium's health and safety committee recommended an independent audit of stadium operations.

[WarrenC12]

Two years ago, on Jan. 5, 2007, the snow melting system was not used during a morning snowstorm. Heavy, wet snow that collected on the roof avalanched and ripped the fabric, causing it to collapse. It was repaired and re-inflated two weeks later, but not before attracting global media attention because the stadium will host the opening and closing ceremonies of the 2010 Winter Olympics.

To be clear, alarms went off and the humans were asleep at the switch right? I thought the rip was entirely human error?

[rather_draconian]

Wow.....i wish i could stretch my legs and do that.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3223/3132048557_253a0b3dbf_b.jpg


Thanks for the pics Mr. X, I'm jealous of those guys; it looks like it would be fun lounging on top of BC place.

Is that one of the TV Towers being built in the background?

[hollywoodnorth]

yes it is

[jlousa]

Looks like the cost has ballooned to $365Million now.

http://www.vancouversun.com/Upgrading+Place+Stadium+will+cost+million/1160095/story.html

[djmk]

365 million = ouch

lets see if i got this right

new roof = 200 mill
Interior = 65 mill
Seismic = 43 mill
----
308 mill
contingency? 57 mill
----
365 mill
=====

[crazyjoeda]

That seems like too much money for a renovation. Maybe they should have torn down BC Place in 2003 after we won the Olympics. The cost for Beijing's stadium was $423 million and Qwest Field in Seattle only cost $300 million.

[vanlaw]

The cost for Beijing's stadium was $423 million

That's due to it being built with extrememly cheap labour and very low standards for workers. Same stadium in North America would have easily approached $1B. If Quest had a roof, cost would have been at least 50% more.

[Hourglass]

That seems like too much money for a renovation. Maybe they should have torn down BC Place in 2003 after we won the Olympics. The cost for Beijing's stadium was $423 million and Qwest Field in Seattle only cost $300 million.

Actually, the cost to the public was $300 million. If you include Paul Allen's contribution, Qwest Field's total cost exceeds US$430 million -- and that was 7 years ago. Factor in inflation and the total bill easily exceeds US$500M. Factor in the currency exchange difference at the time, and the cost in Canadian dollars would be well in excess of $600m

Labor costs in China are much cheaper than North America, and that would account for the relatively modest cost for Beijing's stadium.

[phesto]

Actually, if you include Paul Allen's contribution, Qwest Field cost in excess of US$430 million -- and that was 7 years ago. Factor in an inflation index and the total bill easily exceeds US$500M. Factor in the currency exchange difference at the time, and the cost in Canadian dollars would be well in excess of $600m

Labor costs in China are much cheaper than North America (I wouldn't necessarily call it slave labor, Vanlaw), and that would account for the relatively modest cost for Beijing's stadium.

A more recent comparable retractable-roof stadium project would be Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis, a 70,000 seat capacity stadium opened in August 2008. Total cost was $720 Million.

I agree if you were to build Beijing's stadium in Indianapolis (or Vancouver), you'd be well in excess of $720 Million.

$365 Million seems like a lot, especially considering that we're now in an environment where construction costs are levelling off, but you have to put things in perspective...

[ravman]

New roof, BC Place upgrades could cost $365-million
PavCo chairman declines to say how much of that will go for retractable canopy

ROD MICKLEBURGH

January 10, 2009

VANCOUVER -- Believe it or not, there are mild, moonlit nights and idyllic afternoons bereft of driving rain on the West Coast, and not too long from now, local sports fans will finally get to enjoy them while watching the hometown B.C. Lions or Vancouver Whitecaps.

But the price for installing a sophisticated, state-of-the-art retractable roof that can be rolled up when the weather is good over BC Place, currently covered by a fixed dome, is not cheap.

Stadium officials revealed for the first time yesterday that the total cost of fixing up the 25-year-old facility for the future, including its spectacular new covering, will be as much as $365-million, nearly three times the original $126-million price tag for BC Place itself.

"That's an eye-popping number," fumed provincial NDP critic Rob Fleming, who charged that the bill has soared because of Liberal government indecision.

"They were told three years ago that the lifespan of the current roof was nearing an end and needed to be replaced, but they avoided the decision for far too long," Mr. Fleming said. "This was originally supposed to be a $60-million project."

PavCo, the Crown corporation in charge of the provincially owned structure, said most of the money for the roof and necessary upgrades will come from the sale of land around BC Place, existing cash reserves, increased business and sponsorship opportunities and significant operational savings.

The goal is to have the retractable roof in place by the spring or early summer of 2011, with work to begin immediately after the 2010 Winter Olympics.

The fabric covering will replace the mushroom-shaped, white Teflon dome that has protected BC Place from the elements, including sunshine, since the building went up in 1983, except for an embarrassing temporary deflation a year ago.

"The roof is going to be dramatically different, with a very different character," said PavCo chairman David Podmore. "It will be a showpiece for the city, a real icon."

Mr. Podmore declined to say how much of the $365-million would be needed just for the roof, with the rest used for refurbishing the interior in time for the Olympics, deferred maintenance and structural improvements.

The top will be similar to the retractable roof used to cover the renovated football stadium in Frankfurt, Germany, scene of recent World Cup soccer matches and used long ago by the Nazis for huge pro-Hitler rallies.

The Frankfurt fabric spread folds up and disappears into a large cone-like structure in the centre of the stadium when it is not being used. The complex process to open and close the roof takes about 20 minutes.

Mr. Podmore said about a dozen other facilities around the world already use this type of flexible roof. "We didn't want to experiment, although to retrofit it to an existing building, as we are doing, is rare."

He said PavCo does not anticipate financing difficulties, despite the economic downturn, which has deflated real-estate values and curbed business activity, both of which are being counted on to provide revenue for the project.

Adjacent land owned by the Crown corporation does not have to go on the market immediately, and corporate sponsorship commitments can wait, Mr. Podmore contended.

"This is a long-term program. The building was in awful condition and we have extended it by 30 years. There's nearly three years of work ahead, so we can pick our time in the market," he said. "We can go at everything cautiously, so I am not fussed about the current economic environment."

The project will also provide badly needed construction jobs, Mr. Podmore added. Two hundred workers are already on site to begin structural upgrades for the roof and to improve the stadium's woeful concessions and washroom facilities in time for the 2010 Olympics. BC Place will host the opening and closing ceremonies, and the nightly medal presentations.

"All told this will create approximately 3,000 person years of employment, with a total of 350 people working on site," he said. "So it's a great story at this particular time."

But Mr. Fleming of the NDP said the length of time it took the Liberal government to approve the new roof and the business plan meant that lucrative revenue opportunities from the formerly booming real-estate market were lost.

"There is now an additional risk to the taxpayers because they missed the boat on the best situation available to recover money from the private sector," he said.

[eduardo88]

and used long ago by the Nazis for huge pro-Hitler rallies.


What the hell does that have to do with anything? is that supposed to scare us away from choosing a retractable roof using the same system as in Frankfurt?

[Yume-sama]

What the hell does that have to do with anything? is that supposed to scare us away from choosing a retractable roof using the same system as in Frankfurt?

Well, you know who ELSE would have liked a retractable roof! :haha:

I can see some wacko's running with this, actually.

[touraccuracy]

^no [edited by moderator] kidding.

ravman needs to stop posting this [edited by moderator].

[Yume-sama]

Tomorrow's Headline, today!

http://66.90.101.237/ohno!.jpg
Quick and Dirty.

Don't actually know if the Vancouver Sun is as... extreme... as the Calgary Sun. :haha:

[eduardo88]

I knew it! The BC Liberals are secret fascist...lets all vote NDP!

[mr.x]

That's due to it being built with extrememly cheap labour and very low standards for workers. Same stadium in North America would have easily approached $1B. If Quest had a roof, cost would have been at least 50% more.

National Stadium in Beijing is much larger than our convention centre and required quite a bit of digging and A TON of steel and concrete and labour....the actual cost for something like that in Vancouver would probably be more like $3-billion given the convention centre is at nearly $900M.

[mr.x]

"That's an eye-popping number," fumed provincial NDP critic Rob Fleming, who charged that the bill has soared because of Liberal government indecision.

"They were told three years ago that the lifespan of the current roof was nearing an end and needed to be replaced, but they avoided the decision for far too long," Mr. Fleming said. "This was originally supposed to be a $60-million project.

How the hell is it a "soaring" cost? Not to mention that the government NEVER announced how much the project would cost. It had always been local media outlets and "experts" in the industry feeding the media with their predictions.

The $60-million figure was for only replacing the inflatable teflon roof with a new one. The $365-million cost is for an entirely different project for the stadium. How the hell is that a fair comparison?

So much for quality journalism....and I'm amazed that Ravman actually absorbs all of this crap.

[Hourglass]

How the hell is it a "soaring" cost? Not to mention that the government NEVER announced how much the project would cost. It had always been local media outlets and "experts" in the industry feeding the media with their predictions.

The $60-million figure was for only replacing the inflatable teflon roof with a new one. The $365-million cost is for an entirely different project for the stadium. How the hell is that a fair comparison?

So much for quality journalism....and I'm amazed that Ravman actually absorbs all of this crap.

Why let facts get in the way of a good story? :haha:

The fact of the matter is that at $365M, it's still much cheaper than to demolish BC Place stadium and build a new state-of-the-art facility -- something that would probably cost in the region of $700m-1B if not more.

Anyway, let's face it. Mr Fleming (and Ravman) would still find something to say if the decision to replace the roof had been made 3 years earlier. At a guess, it would likely be along the lines that these funds would have been better used for social programmes...

[Metro-One]

The funny thing was in the good old days it was the NDP who threw money at mega projects, all they do now is bitch. I really want the NDP to change, because i do believe in socialism, but right now our provincial NDP party is really lame. It is a toss up between the liberals (a party with 50% good ideas and 50% bad ideas) and our current provincial NDP (the party with no ideas). This stadium by the way is one of the good ideas, as are all of the skytrain and freeway expansions.

[cornholio]

^no [edited by moderator] kidding.

ravman needs to stop posting this [edited by moderator].

now im just curious

[EastVanMark]

Actually, the cost to the public was $300 million. If you include Paul Allen's contribution, Qwest Field's total cost exceeds US$430 million -- and that was 7 years ago. Factor in inflation and the total bill easily exceeds US$500M. Factor in the currency exchange difference at the time, and the cost in Canadian dollars would be well in excess of $600m

Labor costs in China are much cheaper than North America, and that would account for the relatively modest cost for Beijing's stadium.

Keep in mind the cost of Qwest Field included the construction of the separate convention center located right next to the stadium which was also factored into the overall cost of the project.

Also, a new, state of the art stadium opened in Phoenix in 06' complete with a retractable roof AND field that can be rolled right out of the stadium, for $450 million which included civic infrastructure costs not directly tied to the stadium structure itself. Just the stadium alone would have cost just over $400 million.

[cornholio]

Why let facts get in the way of a good story? :haha:

The fact of the matter is that at $365M, it's still much cheaper than to demolish BC Place stadium and build a new state-of-the-art facility -- something that would probably cost in the region of $700m-1B if not more.

Anyway, let's face it. Mr Fleming (and Ravman) would still find something to say if the decision to replace the roof had been made 3 years earlier. At a guess, it would likely be along the lines that these funds would have been better used for social programmes...

actually it would be funny if we built a new one because then Ravman would loose his job as all jobs within BC Place would get privatized. Now im sure he would be able to get his job back, say for a 50% wage cut...im assuming everything there is still unionized, it was about 5 years ago when i worked there temporarily helping put up and down the car trade show.
seriously though im very pro union, but Ravman needs to look at the biger picture and realize HE is benefiting from this BIG time.

[Vancity]

Anyone have any pictures of the BC Place renovations? What's the progress being made? Read in the Vancouver Sun that the final design for the roof will come at the end of the month.

[ravman]

Anyone have any pictures of the BC Place renovations? What's the progress being made? Read in the Vancouver Sun that the final design for the roof will come at the end of the month.

i be there in a few weeks... update then

and btw NO i am not benefiting =)

[metroXpress]

http://www.bcplacestadium.com/newsreleases/WC_Vision_2011.jpg

QUICK UPDATE...FACTS FROM BC PLACE WEBSTIE

September 4, 2008
BACKGROUNDER
QUICK FACTS ABOUT THE UPGRADES
· Eight new accessible entrances
· Eight ramps will get new flooring, lighting and colour over 35,000 square feet
· 52 washroom blocks totaling 40,000 square feet will be upgraded with new finishes and fixtures
· Provisions added to each washroom group including new stalls, counters and a family washroom
· Disabled seating integrated throughout the stadium
· 40 concessions will get new fronts including accessible counters, new signage, monitors and fixtures
· Six new and six existing grill concessions will be upgraded to gas, complete with new appliances
· 80,000 square feet of concourses on Level 2 and Level 4 will be upgraded with new lighting, wall
treatments and entry points to ramps and seating
· 35 renovated suites and seven new suites, upgraded seating areas including two new lounges, and a
redesigned
Edgewater Lounge will be built
· All internal and external signage will be replaced by new contemporary signage and graphics
QUICK FACTS ABOUT BC PLACE
· BC Place is the largest multiuse
facility in British Columbia
· Top choice for business and industry for exhibition and spectator events
· Annual economic activity generated: $58.1 million (2007)
· Home to the 2010 Olympic Opening and Closing Ceremonies
· Host of nightly Victory Ceremonies for the 2010 Olympic Games
· Home to the 2010 Paralympic Opening Ceremonies
· Built in 1983 to rejuvenate the False Creek area
· First covered stadium in Canada
· Built with enough concrete to build a sidewalk from Vancouver to Seattle, Washington
· Finished on time and on budget at $126 million
· Current roof area: 10.25 acres (largest airsupported
dome in the world, pressurized by 16 jet engine
fans)
· Current roof material: Teflon coated fibreglass consisting of two layers of fabric, 1/30 inch (0.85
millimetres) thick.
· Current capacity: 60,000
· Occupied more than 200 event days per year
· 95 per cent occupancy in fall and spring show seasons
· 36 event days used for BC Lions regular season home games and other sporting events
· Sold out private suites and hospitality areas
· Circumference: 760 metres (2,500 feet)
· Number of revolving doors: 50
· Field: 1,500 pieces of turf, assembled like a jigsaw puzzle
Media Contact:
Trevor Pancoust
604.646.3567
tpancoust@pacegroup.com


EXCUSE ME IF THESE HAVE BEEN POSTED ALREADY

[ravman]

iight guys and gals


UPDATE!!!!!!


NEW PAINT: BLUE AND GREEN ( paint is cheap and is flaking off), Concrete roof is painted WHITE

NEW FLOORING on ramps ( the laminate stuff textured zebra design)

BUNCH OF SEATS ARE GONE! ( no new seats YET)

NEW FAN SYSTEM WITH PIPES FROM 4TH FLOOR

BUNCH OF NEW CONCESSSION STANDS- NEW SIGNS, LOWERED COUNTERS ( THAT HAVE BEEN PAINTED) TILES ETC....

ALL PILLARS DUG UP AND REINFORCED

NEW PIPES

NEW BATHROOM TILES, TOILET ET AL

MAJOR RENOS IN THIRD FLOOR... DIDNT VENTURE THERE..

PLACE IS AN OVERALL MESS AND LOTS OF WORK TO DO IN THE NEXT YEAR!

[Vancity]

^ Thanks for the updates. Any pictures you could provide for us?

[ravman]

naw... i only had a cameraphone... but trust me it was all a mess.... i mean what do you expect and they aint going to clean it up for another year :D

[mr.x]

- the government said it will begin funneling significant amounts of a renovation fund to Pavco, the Crown corporation that owns and is rebuilding BC Place Stadium. Last year, Pavco announced plans to spend up to $365 million on renovations and the conversion of the iconic air-supported domed roof to a retractable fabric one. However, most of those changes won't take place until after the Olympics. The budget shows B.C. advanced $38 million to Pavco last year, and will spend $327 million over the next three years, including $125 million this year on pre-Olympic upgrades.

- The $883-million convention centre project is expected to be substantially finished next month. Pavco expects to spend $88 million over the next two years, with much of that going towards upgrades on the existing convention centre at Canada Place.


http://www.vancouversun.com/Sports/Budget+Olympic+security+costs+escalate+budget/1299228/story.html

[metroXpress]

^Hope to see all that come ture. It's time for a reno BC stadium!

[jlousa]

Something to entertain the peons while we all wait. Warning if you are still using dialup it's possible the work will be done before all of these load. :tup:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p155/jlousa/bcplaceodp1.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p155/jlousa/bcplaceodp2.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p155/jlousa/bcplaceodp3.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p155/jlousa/bcplaceodp4.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p155/jlousa/bcplaceodp5.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p155/jlousa/bcplaceodp6.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p155/jlousa/bcplaceodp7.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p155/jlousa/bcplaceodp8.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p155/jlousa/bcplaceodp9.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p155/jlousa/bcplaceodp10.jpg

[ravman]

this would be the future commerical expansion that was being used to fund the upgrades....

[mr.x]

Thanks for posting these! It really makes me wish this could be done by this year in time for.....

But yea, I absolutely love the whole galleria concourse concept. It'll almost be like having the Library Square atrium around the entire stadium. It could really make the whole precinct quite vibrant.....and even moreso if it's surrounded with office, you'd have office workers pouring out. And the possible connections...wow.

It's wildly impressive, and I can't wait to see it completed.

[mrjauk]

I just wish that the hole in the roof was a bit larger. What we'll get is something similar to Texas Stadium (with an even smaller opening), and it just doesn't give you the sense that you're "outside", even when the roof is completely open.

Is the diameter of the roof set in stone?

[Canadian Mind]

Damn man, I love that. I also liek how the structures around the stadium wont tower over the rather equisit roof.

One thing though, will there be lighting effects on the roof? Cause the residents and guests of the adjactent hotel/residential developments might not approve of the lighting if there is some. I think 24 hour lighting, or atleast lighting up till 1 or 2am would be an iawesome addition to the nighttime skyline, much like the lighting of the Rogers centre. Would be a shame if people living in buildings that havent even been built yet kill it off.

[jlousa]

Depends on how the lighting is done. If it's lit up done ala Canada Place then there would be no complaints as it's soft and non radiating, if it emits light ala a screen then you'd have complaints.

[Metro-One]

I am concerned about the residential units in this plan, seems like a bad idea seeing how downtown residents expect downtown to be similar to a suburb...

[jlousa]

No I'm pretty sure that's your opinion of what you think downtown residents want. If they wanted the suburbs they'd have bought there as it's cheaper. They want to be downtown, they just don't share the same vision of what a downtown should be that you do.

[deasine]

I am concerned about the residential units in this plan, seems like a bad idea seeing how downtown residents expect downtown to be similar to a suburb...

This is an insult to downtown residents. They didn't pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to live in a suburb... -___-"

[Metro-One]

No I'm pretty sure that's your opinion of what you think downtown residents want. If they wanted the suburbs they'd have bought there as it's cheaper. They want to be downtown, they just don't share the same vision of what a downtown should be that you do.


:previous: You mean the atmosphere that is found throughout Asia, Europe, Australia, Toronto, Montreal, San Francisco, New York, etc...? Your right, these people move downtown Vancouver for the convenience of location but expect it to be like a suburb at night because they believe the world revolves around them and they should have it both ways :tup: A stadium is an area that will be holding many concerts, sporting events, civic events, trade shows, etc... and in an area that is suppose to become an entertainment zone (not to mention another stadium already exists beside it, along with a casino) it seems like a bad idea to be building residential towers directly beside the facility. For we all know these people will be complaining and there goes our new "entertainment" zone.

"We are going to rock this concert until 9:30! Because that is when thew noise by-law comes into affect! Also forget lighting the stage for some people in the towers complained about last weeks concert lighting effects! OK, a 1, a 2, a 3..."

Again, this is the problem with having residential components in every neighborhood downtown and allowing them to dictate so much. I wish we could seriously built a couple zones that are strictly commercial and entertainment, and if they do decide to build residential units in such an area, the residents will buy fully knowing that they have no power to dictate by-laws in that zone.

There is no difference between a few members on this forum who will remain nameless and those in White Rock and in other such communities who complain about the noise of trains in their neighborhood, despite the fact they knew the tracks were there when they moved in :koko:

[Metro-One]

This is an insult to downtown residents. They didn't pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to live in a suburb... -___-"

Well obviously not all of them have such a mentality, but there are many who wish to have the amenities of downtown, but then the peace and quiet of a suburb at night. For example people on this forum have said how a condo tower on Robson street petitioned to not allow a bar to open near their building. Excuse me, you are on Robson street which has been a primary entertainment, bar, restaurant, shopping street for decades! The precedent was already set and now they are trying to change it. I also remember watching the news and one resident downtown interviewed, was saying how some of the clubs should shut down and move away in their area because it had become predominately residential! So where are the clubs going to move to? The suburbs? And another forumer on here said that it is his right to sleep with his blinds open at night living downtown! If people move downtown and are not willing to even close their blinds to stop the light then something is wrong! Vancouver is the core of the region and is the core of our transit system. Having the majority of the entertainment facilities downtown is great, for many can take transit and walk to all of their favorite bars, clubs, restaurants, etc... This is environmentally friendly and it helps reducing drunk driving, something that will rise if we start dispersing all of our entertainment venues to the suburbs.

[mr.x]

I fully agree with you metro.

Not downtown related, but stadium related....I'm sure many of you know about the lone condo tower near Thunderbird Stadium built a few years ago. Well, apparently it was built too close to the stadium and now you have NIMBY's from the tower canceling school and concert events to the stadium or having those events end ridiculously early. We are increasingly seeing UBC becoming a residential "suburb"; a post-secondary institution ruled by the residents.

[deasine]

Well obviously not all of them have such a mentality, but there are many who wish to have the amenities of downtown, but then the peace and quiet of a suburb at night. For example people on this forum have said how a condo tower on Robson street petitioned to not allow a bar to open near their building. Excuse me, you are on Robson street which has been a primary entertainment, bar, restaurant, shopping street for decades! The precedent was already set and now they are trying to change it. I also remember watching the news and one resident downtown interviewed, was saying how some of the clubs should shut down and move away in their area because it had become predominately residential! So where are the clubs going to move to? The suburbs? And another forumer on here said that it is his right to sleep with his blinds open at night living downtown! If people move downtown and are not willing to even close their blinds to stop the light then something is wrong! Vancouver is the core of the region and is the core of our transit system. Having the majority of the entertainment facilities downtown is great, for many can take transit and walk to all of their favorite bars, clubs, restaurants, etc... This is environmentally friendly and it helps reducing drunk driving, something that will rise if we start dispersing all of our entertainment venues to the suburbs.

You are simply giving a generalization of the minority of downtown residents, the NIMBYs who seem to get the attention of everyone.

[touraccuracy]

now im just curious

i talk like a drunken sailor

[jlousa]

You keep trying to compare Vancouver to Europe,Asia, San Fransisco, Australia etc etc if you feel those places are somehow superior for your lifestyle needs then you can easily move there. For me Vancouver is superior hence why I've chosen to live here. The citizens have shaped the way this city has grown and will continue to grow and the same goes for most other cities. If you feel Vancouver isn't fun enough then you can blame your neighbors not the government. Maybe another city where the citizens are more to your liking would be a better fit, you will never be able to change the minds of our population to convince them your vision is superior to theirs.

Back onto the topic, anyone notice the possible stadium expansion points on levels 1,2,3,4. I imagine the first couple of levels would be service areas with 3,4 being for additional capacity. I know they will be increasing the number of box seats which will reduce some seating capacity but i wonder with the expansions if the total capacity will increase any.

[Canadian Mind]

You are simply giving a generalization of the minority of downtown residents, the NIMBYs who seem to get the attention of everyone.

And they are the one's who cause all the negative changes, like the closing of clubs, lack of lighting effects, etc.

You keep trying to compare Vancouver to Europe,Asia, San Fransisco, Australia etc etc if you feel those places are somehow superior for your lifestyle needs then you can easily move there. For me Vancouver is superior hence why I've chosen to live here. The citizens have shaped the way this city has grown and will continue to grow and the same goes for most other cities. If you feel Vancouver isn't fun enough then you can blame your neighbors not the government. Maybe another city where the citizens are more to your liking would be a better fit, you will never be able to change the minds of our population to convince them your vision is superior to theirs.

Not everyone has the option to move because their jobs, careers, and families are in Vancouver.

And like it or not, it's the young workforce that drives Vancouver. If you turn downtown into a sleepy bedroom community, thats what the whole city will be 20 years down the road, and all the young people who do crave more excitement, fun, noise, light, etc. will have moved to Calgary, Edmonsuck, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle, LA, New York, Cities in Europe and Asia, etc. Then you will have no one but cranky old 40, 50, and 60 year olds who are better suited to office jobs then to manual labour, such as working at the ports, in the dwindling industrial area's, etc. Without the youg ones to work the heavier industry and basic bitch-work around the city, the city wont prosper, and you certainly aren't breeding a desirable environment for people in their teens, 20s, and 30s.

Back onto the topic, anyone notice the possible stadium expansion points on levels 1,2,3,4. I imagine the first couple of levels would be service areas with 3,4 being for additional capacity. I know they will be increasing the number of box seats which will reduce some seating capacity but i wonder with the expansions if the total capacity will increase any.

I saw those, but based on the diagram it looked like the seats were all the way to the upper rim of concrete. It doesn't look like the roof supports were designed to handle seats aswell, although by no means am I qualified to make that judgement. So the question is: Could the roof's superstructure support more seating in the future?

[agrant]

So the question is: Could the roof's superstructure support more seating in the future?No idea, but I think another question is: Why would they add more seating? I think I understand adding more box seats - to reflect what the latest modern stadiums have for catering to more corporate types, like in GM Place. But a few thousand more regular seats doesn't make sense to me. What's the average attendance, 30 thousand?

[jlousa]

We'll I guess I'll just make peace with living in a bedroom community while Surrey develops into the metropolis with lots of fun things to do like ferris wheels. :tup:

Back to topic, was at the home and garden show looks like half the ramps floors have been painted, looks a little better and at the same time provides more traction then the old unpainted floor which could be slippery when there was spilled drinks on it. The walls are also painted a very lite blue almost a baby blue, not my first choice but they make the area seems bigger and brighter then the the bare concrete.

Think the Lions average closer to 35K during the season and more for the playoffs. The only time they get 60K in there is for the Grey cup (once every ~5years). Not sure why they'd need extra seats either. They might be able to sell out for a couple of concerts and maybe an NFL exhibition game or a international soccer friendly but that would be about it, seems like a major expense for an additional ~1K seats or so.

[Metro-One]

We'll I guess I'll just make peace with living in a bedroom community while Surrey develops into the metropolis with lots of fun things to do like ferris wheels

With your constant reference to the ferris wheel it is obvious that you dont quite understand what i, and a large portion of this forum are saying in regards to entertainment venues downtown. The thing is there is a demand for such areas and there are many who feel our way, so why is it so terrible for people such as yourselves to allow us 1 or 2 districts (Granville street and Robson street for example) to be more 24 hour in nature and a little more exciting? What is wrong with diversity? Both those areas have a great base to build upon and could become world famous entertainment districts, but the NIMBYs are slowly killing it. Do you not see the problem in this? Guessing from your previous comment, unlike you i was born here, so this is my city, if i did not love it would i be so passionate? Did Vancouver not look at what has been successful in other cities in designing its current structure, and is their not always room for improvement, and is it not true that many have been commenting that Vancouver's condo craze has worked to well, in the fact that it is killing areas that could have been used for offices and is killing entertainment areas with suburban style by-laws? It is just that those against an issue, such as adding lighting effects and entertainment venues, are usually more vocal and active than those who would enjoy it or use it. So the the idea gets squashed because of the NIMBYs. This is the problem, and if they add residential units so close to the new stadiums all i see is another ruined opportunity for a proper commercial and entertainment zone, because the city will never have the balls to say that they moved in fully aware that there was a stadium beside them :tup:

[mr.x]

^ well said!!!


Back onto the topic, anyone notice the possible stadium expansion points on levels 1,2,3,4. I imagine the first couple of levels would be service areas with 3,4 being for additional capacity. I know they will be increasing the number of box seats which will reduce some seating capacity but i wonder with the expansions if the total capacity will increase any.

I would guess that the Hall of Fame would be moved, as it's occupying space that could be box seats. And there's a lot of wall around the perimeter of the dome between the upper and lower levels that could be box seats:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/7/6350912_e201d09d59_b.jpg




Any chance the additional box seats will be done by 2010? Considering all the sponsors, officials, foreign dignitaries, and VIP's?

And are they still going to put in a new shiny white inner lining for the roof?

[jlousa]

Actually I was born here, and I'm probably as well traveled as anyone on here, what you see as a failure I see as a success. I was around when there weren't condos anywhere downtown besides in the westend, do you know what, the entertainment district sucked. It sucked terribly. You seems to think it's dying right now, you weren't around in the late 70's, 80's there was no entertainment district we had clubs here and there and club hopping meant driving between places. Places would change names every few months as most places couldn't make a go of it. The entertainment district is thriving now, note the success of Granville St (somewhat), Yaletown, Gastown. You seem to think the downtown residents are trying to shut those down, they aren't. They are trying to shape the developments which makes them better for everyone. When cities the world over look to us for advice it's obvious we're doing something right. Anyways I'm done arguing this, you won't change my mind and I'm not getting anywhere with you.

Back to topic, I notice in these diagrams both Colours projects are there, isn't the location of the one scheduled to be the relocated casino. Also has the new location of the BC Sports hall of fame been decided yet? I know there was talk about tying it in with the new casino but that might not be deemed appropriate.

[NetMapel]

I don't understand why they would put residence in the towers beside BC Place. The noise generated from games/events at BC Place will be extremely loud. Why not have it all commercial in the tower ?

[EastVanMark]

Actually I was born here, and I'm probably as well traveled as anyone on here, what you see as a failure I see as a success. I was around when there weren't condos anywhere downtown besides in the westend, do you know what, the entertainment district sucked. It sucked terribly. You seems to think it's dying right now, you weren't around in the late 70's, 80's there was no entertainment district we had clubs here and there and club hopping meant driving between places. Places would change names every few months as most places couldn't make a go of it. The entertainment district is thriving now, note the success of Granville St (somewhat), Yaletown, Gastown. You seem to think the downtown residents are trying to shut those down, they aren't. They are trying to shape the developments which makes them better for everyone. When cities the world over look to us for advice it's obvious we're doing something right. Anyways I'm done arguing this, you won't change my mind and I'm not getting anywhere with you.

Obviously you weren't around in the late 70's when the entertainment district was within a few blocks and you didn;t have to drive anywhere. (and the club scene back then was comparable to today's with a fraction of the population we have now). Also back then, no noise complaints....from anyone...

[jlousa]

Because there isn't a demand for that much commercial space, nor would it pay for renovations needed. Residential is much more profitable. If they include A/C so you can keep the windows closed during events you there's no reason they couldn't build it so that you'd never hear a peep. If you've ever stayed at the YVR fairmont you'll know that it's possible.

[hollywoodnorth]

a construction elevator has been put up on the EAST side of BC Place to ease the movement of material and workers from the outside prep area to the inside and potentially roof area.

Hard to explain and I'm too lazy to snap a photo. But looks like things are shifting into high gear over there now....

[EdinVan]

This is an insult to downtown residents. They didn't pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to live in a suburb... -___-"

I think many of them paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get what they thought would be a financial return on their investment, not because they care about living downtown.

[EdinVan]

You are simply giving a generalization of the minority of downtown residents, the NIMBYs who seem to get the attention of everyone.

This is an empirical issue: a survey of representative, randomly-sampled residents in the area would give a clearer picture of their attitudes and preferences regarding downtown living. There's a thesis project for someone.

[EdinVan]

Anyways I'm done arguing this, you won't change my mind and I'm not getting anywhere with you.

Why must one 'get somewhere' with someone? It's just a discussion, no?

[EdinVan]

The citizens have shaped the way this city has grown and will continue to grow and the same goes for most other cities. If you feel Vancouver isn't fun enough then you can blame your neighbors not the government.

But it goes both ways, doesn't it? Citizens shape the city (by way of influencing government policy), but government policy also shapes the city, and, in turn, the kind of people the city attracts.

[Locked In]

I don't understand why they would put residence in the towers beside BC Place. The noise generated from games/events at BC Place will be extremely loud. Why not have it all commercial in the tower ?

They're probably planning to put residential there because they foresee (eventually) there being a demand for it. For example, some of the residential developments on the doorstep of the ACC are marketed as being closely connected to the pro sports scene in TO. Conversely, developers probably aren't interested in building all commercial because they don't foresee there being sufficient demand for it in the foreseeable future. In any case, according the NEFC High Level Review that jlousa posted a while ago, the COV will require that all residential development will require notices on title and in marketing information regarding noise levels. That should help mitigate noise complaints.

[ravman]

a construction elevator has been put up on the EAST side of BC Place to ease the movement of material and workers from the outside prep area to the inside and potentially roof area.

Hard to explain and I'm too lazy to snap a photo. But looks like things are shifting into high gear over there now....

after the trade show... the building is getting shutdown for a few months... only pple in will be security ( to make sure the roof doesnt collapse) and the workers.... the closure will end mid juneish

[VanHowe]

Well what about us Sun runners? It has to be open in April for the Sun Run and in May for the marathon.

[ravman]

i know it is closing AFTER trade show season..... dunno the exact dates and i also hear they are talking with the CFL to see if they could alter the Lions schedule or something.... but that is just rumors that i hear....

[VanHowe]

Here is the calendar of BC Place. If you click on the months you will see that it will only be closed in May and June for renovations. That's not long.
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/calendar/index.html

[mr.x]

Everytime i look at this rendering, i wonder what happened to the upper level...shabby rendering :D
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/newsreleases/WC_Vision_2011.jpg

[ravman]

Here is the calendar of BC Place. If you click on the months you will see that it will only be closed in May and June for renovations. That's not long.
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/calendar/index.html

yes that is correct, but they are trying to not have a pre-season game at BC Place to extend construction forwrd

and with what they did from like octish to about janish...... its a zoo inside..... i expect huge progress because once football starts, major stuff cant be done

[Vancity]

Actually I was born here, and I'm probably as well traveled as anyone on here, what you see as a failure I see as a success. I was around when there weren't condos anywhere downtown besides in the westend, do you know what, the entertainment district sucked. It sucked terribly. You seems to think it's dying right now, you weren't around in the late 70's, 80's there was no entertainment district we had clubs here and there and club hopping meant driving between places. Places would change names every few months as most places couldn't make a go of it. The entertainment district is thriving now, note the success of Granville St (somewhat), Yaletown, Gastown. You seem to think the downtown residents are trying to shut those down, they aren't. They are trying to shape the developments which makes them better for everyone. When cities the world over look to us for advice it's obvious we're doing something right. Anyways I'm done arguing this, you won't change my mind and I'm not getting anywhere with you.

Back to topic, I notice in these diagrams both Colours projects are there, isn't the location of the one scheduled to be the relocated casino. Also has the new location of the BC Sports hall of fame been decided yet? I know there was talk about tying it in with the new casino but that might not be deemed appropriate.

I wonder if they would just build a separate building for the BC Sports Hall of Fame, kind of like the Hockey Hall of Fame in downtown Toronto. If I'm not mistaken, they have their own place. That'd be neat if they could do that here in downtown Vancouver. It'd be a tourist attraction =]

[Vancity]

I don't understand why they would put residence in the towers beside BC Place. The noise generated from games/events at BC Place will be extremely loud. Why not have it all commercial in the tower ?

Yeah, that's what I wondered as well. I guess it would depend on whether they have the roof of BC Place open or not. If the roof is opened, I'm assuming that the noise level is greater than if it were closed. I'm really excited about these upgrades, and the potential BC Place and its surrounding could be! I think having office towers around the area would be beneficial, as most offices close by the time the games (7pm usually?) start. I think it'd be a great entertainment district. I really do hope they can do this project right, 'cause if they do, I can see it being a very vibrant area for residents of the city to come and spend time there.

[metroXpress]

^ Commerical towers would also be great! Lots of people like shopping and dinning around venues. Have some malls and shops around and the Hall of Frame you mentioned also!

[jasmine30]

The Lions schedule is already set:

http://www.bclions.com/schedule/year/2009/1

[vanman]

Everytime i look at this rendering, i wonder what happened to the upper level...shabby rendering :D
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/newsreleases/WC_Vision_2011.jpg

I thought the plan was to close off the balcony during Whitecaps games so that the thousands of excess seats won't be visible.

[mr.x]

I thought the plan was to close off the balcony during Whitecaps games so that the thousands of excess seats won't be visible.

Well yes, it will be hidden but it seems that the upper tier has dissapeared completely from existence.

[officedweller]

Everytime i look at this rendering, i wonder what happened to the upper level...shabby rendering :D
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/newsreleases/WC_Vision_2011.jpg

That's the screening that's supposed to make the stadium "more intimate" for the Whitecaps.
It's like the curtains that screen GM Place in half for a small concert.
But in this case, it blocks out the upper seats.

[mr.x]

That's the screening that's supposed to make the stadium "more intimate" for the Whitecaps.
It's like the curtains that screen GM Place in half for a small concert.
But in this case, it blocks out the upper seats.

Yes, I know....but if you look carefully at the rendering, there is suppose to be some transparency in the screening and it should show the upper bowl rather than what appears to be the glass facade around the rim of the stadium. I'm not criticizing the design, rather the rendering.

[Whalleyboy]

if you look at the left hand corner of it it loks like you can see the upper bowl threw it

[vanman]

Yup, I can clearly see it.

[metroXpress]

^ Agree with both of you! I can see it too.

[WarrenC12]

I think the ultimate NIMBY test will be when Capitol Residences are complete and people start moving in. That should happen long before any potential residential development near BC Place.

On the renos topic, I'm a Lions season ticket holder so I'm anxious to see some improvements, especially at the concessions. :cheers:

And don't take away my pre-season game. :D

[LeftCoaster]

Thanks for the info Jlousa, nice to see the design progressing... too bad I wont be able to provide you guys with updates on this one, Jlo will have to pick up the slack.

Regarding the residential, I don't know if there would be any interest from the REITs or other long term investors but a decent solution to the residential units next to the stadium would be to build them as rental units, so as to avoid the power of the building stratas.

Also Metro and MrX your posts are a real treat... but could we keep them in that new thread in the general discussions area so I can effectively ignore them?

[Pinion]

You can see the upper bowl but the perspective's all wrong in that rendering. It makes the upper bowl look tiny when it's at least as tall as the lower bowl.

http://football.ballparks.com/CFL/BC/interior.jpg
(ballparks.com)

A partial cover between the bowls will lead to a huge empty space, even with less of an arch on the new roof. (not necessarily a bad thing, just not like the rendering)

[g35]

You can see the upper bowl but the perspective's all wrong in that rendering. It makes the upper bowl look tiny when it's at least as tall as the lower bowl.

A partial cover between the bowls will lead to a huge empty space, even with less of an arch on the new roof. (not necessarily a bad thing, just not like the rendering)

You're right. I made a roughly accurate model in SketchUp and the upper deck was visible through the hole.

It might just be the super-wide-angle perspective that makes it not visible in the rendering.

[jlousa]

BC Place is getting it's sound system upgraded, the stadiums sound system will be next for the meantime they are doing all the boxes. Each box will have a 4.5" touchscreen with which the occupants could choose from 3 sources (stadium sound, radio, local/aux (ipod)). The screen will turn off after 5min of inactivity and will remember the owners volume preferences. Each box will have a min of 2 8"speakers with larger suites having more. Completion date for installation is Aug 15, 2009 so well in time for the games.

How many boxes are there now in BC Place, the below document shows 48 boxes, not sure if those were all there or if this shows the new ones.


http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/4/11/1862053/BCPlaceboxes.pdf

[djmk]

talking about sound...

one of my pet peeves about bc place is the acoustics. does anybody know if this will be corrected?

[LeftCoaster]

Just getting rid of the dome itself should do wonders to the acoustics of the stadium.

[jlousa]

I'm sure getting rid of the positive pressure in the dome will also make it easier to tune the sound.

[WarrenC12]

I'm sure getting rid of the positive pressure in the dome will also make it easier to tune the sound.

Exactly. Although the dome is great for sports events, the reverberating sound makes it even louder, perfect for when the opposing team is trying to call plays. :D

[LeftCoaster]

Yeah my dad used to tell me about lions games in the 70s and how when they sold the place out the sound was deafening. Huge home field advantage.

[Locked In]

Yeah my dad used to tell me about lions games in the 70s and how when they sold the place out the sound was deafening. Huge home field advantage.

But they didn't move into BC Place until 1983! Not to say that Empire probably wasn't rocking back in the 70's...

[LeftCoaster]

sorry... meant 80's.... my parents hadn't even moved out west until the early 80s.

[djmk]

sure, the noise level at games is one thing, but listening to simple things like the canadian anthem or the announcer is just ridiculous. the sound reverberates off of everything until it reaches the listener and then its just a mess. That huge space, concrete and teflon roof is to blame. yes, a new roof may help....

i was wondering, if there renos include adding items that would absorb sound rather than reflect it.

i would imagine the costs involved could be recoup pretty quickly. I'm sure large profession bands currently avoid BC Place due to their songs sound like crap inside.