BC Place: Stadium Refurbishment | Completed

[SFUVancouver]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f58/hirtus1/P1030374.jpg
pic by Built Form



It looks great and is a much more dynamic form than I was expecting! I assumed that each tranche of the permanent roof would be a continuous cylinder following the curve of the hoops. Instead the fabric appears to be in tension and pulls itself down between hoops. This project just went to a whole new level in my books.

[Pinion]

Agreed, it's looking better and better. Hopefully they spit and polish the whole thing and not leave parts looking like they're 30 years old.

[dtrain]

I hope they do something to the large cement panels that cover the interior walkways. I know they've added glass at each end, but it still looks like a large flat (and aged) panel of cement, perhaps they could add some large graphic banners to cover them, something like the Canuck player banners outside Rogers Arena.

[agrant]

I was recently walking by the north side, on the Georgia Viaduct... and thought I could see something being done to the concrete ring encircling the stadium. In other words, the exposed area near the top of the bowl. They seem to be creating a more decorative form. So, don't know if it'll ever change from concrete. We'll see though.

[ckkelley]

I walked by the Cambie bridgehead yesterday and was struck, for the very first time, with excitement. Initially I thought with some regret that the replacement of the old 'marshmallow' roof would have left me forlorn but those thoughts have been erased. Should be kick-ass.

[Canadian Mind]

Anyone who thought the roof would be ugly before or thought it wouldn't be worth the dollars willing to admit they are having second thoughts yet?

This new roof is amazing!

[NewfBC]

Is this a hint as to the new name for BC Place? :)

"TELUS is 1-year into their 2-year partnership with the CFL and today they announced they’ve become the official wireless, television service, and Internet provider for BC Lions Football Club. This season you can expect to see TELUS branding on everything Lions, including a new smartphone and tablet app. No details on what the app will include but you can count on seeing the usual features such as schedules, news, highlights, videos, stats and standings.

Lions president and CEO Dennis Skulsky stated that “Today is a great day for our football club as we welcome one of the most respected brands in Canada to our roster of premier partners. TELUS is committed to supporting professional and amateur sport in British Columbia and we are very pleased to have them on board to make our game day experience even better.”"


Ron.

[cc85]

probably .

[WarrenC12]

Well, I did get a high quality Telus BC Lions towel on my seat Friday night. :D

[agrant]

You can see what looks like drainage pipe being installed at field level, with the Interior Cam. A second section of fixed roof is being unfurled... Seats have been installed in the far left corner. Interesting project to say the least.

[officedweller]

Posted over at SSC by Pawel:
Looks like the shots were taken last week.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6134/5918981910_d8dbd44426_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/murman/5918981910/

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6013/5918983724_35cd110afc_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/murman/5918983724/

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6146/5918980030_a6c1f14915_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/murman/5918980030/

[ckkelley]

Cool shots! Thanks od and Pawel.

[VancouverPM]

Anyone who thought the roof would be ugly before or thought it wouldn't be worth the dollars willing to admit they are having second thoughts yet?

This new roof is amazing!

I've had second thoughts at the sanity of those who decided replacing a roof was worth hundreds of millions of dollars. This is frankly an embaressment to the savvy of the leadership of this province. We could have demolished and built a state of the art facility, incorporating residential/hotel development into the project to offset costs and built it for less money than this godforsaken roof will cost, on a 25+ year old building. This is frankly going to look attrocious from when its completed, it will at the end have significant cost overruns, which will become even more embaressing to the city.

In my opinion a complete and utter waste of money, resources and man power, not to mention a minimal effect to the local building community, when you factor the size and scope a project like that should potentially bring.

[LeftCoaster]

We could have demolished and built a state of the art facility, incorporating residential/hotel development into the project to offset costs and built it for less money than this godforsaken roof will cost, on a 25+ year old building.

How in the world are you going to build a new state of the art retractable roof stadium for less than 250 million dollars? :koko:

[ckkelley]

I've had second thoughts at the sanity of those who decided replacing a roof was worth hundreds of millions of dollars. This is frankly an embaressment to the savvy of the leadership of this province. We could have demolished and built a state of the art facility, incorporating residential/hotel development into the project to offset costs and built it for less money than this godforsaken roof will cost, on a 25+ year old building. This is frankly going to look attrocious from when its completed, it will at the end have significant cost overruns, which will become even more embaressing to the city.

In my opinion a complete and utter waste of money, resources and man power, not to mention a minimal effect to the local building community, when you factor the size and scope a project like that should potentially bring.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion but "atrocious"? Really? Not me, far from it in fact.

[VancouverPM]

How in the world are you going to build a new state of the art retractable roof stadium for less than 250 million dollars? :koko:

I never said 250 million...i have no problem spending 500 milllion, 600 million for that matter...on a BRAND NEW state of the stadium, but a project that when is all said and done will probably be hitting the $600 million mark for a roof...seems like pure madness to me. BC Place is whislt an iconic building for the last 25 years now outdated, instead of spending that money wisely on building big a better, we are stuck with an expensive roof on a medoicrce building...I respect that my opinion may not be shared by many or all...but from a construction stand point, this was pure madness on numerous levels, from a economically feasible standpoint it doesn't compute, from a longeviety stand point for the physical building it doens't make sense...

Build a brand new stadium, have a professional sports or sporting franchise pony some of the costs, get major corporate backing, reducing construction costs to the taxpayer...increase the size of the stadium, thus increasing revenue potential, thus increasing yearly revenue...or retrofit a 25 year old building almost fully on the taxpayers dime with no ability to increase revenues in a substantial manner for decades to come...it seems like a no brainer to me...

[LeftCoaster]

I never said 250 million...i have no problem spending 500 milllion, 600 million for that matter...on a BRAND NEW state of the stadium, but a project that when is all said and done will probably be hitting the $600 million mark for a roof...seems like pure madness to me. BC Place is whislt an iconic building for the last 25 years now outdated, instead of spending that money wisely on building big a better, we are stuck with an expensive roof on a medoicrce building...I respect that my opinion may not be shared by many or all...but from a construction stand point, this was pure madness on numerous levels, from a economically feasible standpoint it doesn't compute, from a longeviety stand point for the physical building it doens't make sense...

Well that would be fine if the roof did in fact cost 600 million, but the roof was only billed to cost 250 million. The price has since balooned to around 350 million but one would have to assume that kind of mismanagement would be the case with a stand alone stadium built by the province as well. They dont really have the greatest track record on major infrastructure projects. :rolleyes:

Of the original 458m fixed price contract rougly 250million was for the roof, with 100 million in interior renvations, 64-70 million in structural upgrades not attributable to the roof and the remainder in upgrades to the facility's M&E equiptment.

What most people seem to ignore when looking at the final pricetag is that for all intents and purposes we are getting a new stadium here. not only are we getting a new roof, but new seating, new concorses, new sound systems, new ducting, new electronics, and so on. about the only thing that did not get completely redone was the concrete structure, and that had a substantial seismic retrofitting done to it.

Like I said though I wont defend Pavco on the cost overruns, that is pretty bad.

[djmk]

If there was a new stadium I wonder if soil remediation would be needed and how much that would cost. Apparently, False Creek needed close to $70 million to clean that up.

Plus, I'm sure demo costs would be huge. All that concrete would have to go somewhere.

[VancouverPM]

Well that would be fine if the roof did in fact cost 600 million, but the roof was only billed to cost 250 million. The price has since balooned to around 350 million but one would have to assume that kind of mismanagement would be the case with a stand alone stadium built by the province as well. They dont really have the greatest track record on major infrastructure projects. :rolleyes:

Of the original 458m fixed price contract rougly 250million was for the roof, with 100 million in interior renvations, 64-70 million in structural upgrades not attributable to the roof and the remainder in upgrades to the facility's M&E equiptment.

What most people seem to ignore when looking at the final pricetag is that for all intents and purposes we are getting a new stadium here. not only are we getting a new roof, but new seating, new concorses, new sound systems, new ducting, new electronics, and so on. about the only thing that did not get completely redone was the concrete structure, and that had a substantial seismic retrofitting done to it.

Like I said though I wont defend Pavco on the cost overruns, that is pretty bad.

I find the numbers floating around most intriquing because last time I had some conversations...and no not with Bob the flagger when I was running by and waiting for one of the mobiles to do their thing...with individuals involved with the project on a...to put it candidly senior management level, the dollars and cents that I was getting are more in line with the lump sum figures I was putting out when all is going to be said and done. Now really to speculate until the official Pavco numbers are released at the end of the projects completion, and then add the customary percentages for the creative book-keeping that will undoubtedly move money around to make the project look healthier than it really is/was I think we'll find the figure more in line with the 500 to 600 million range...PAVCO is not capable, hell the provincial government in all their glory and wisdom are not capable of running, organizing and building public buildings without significant cost over-runs.

In my opinion, PAVCO and the province would have been far better off selling the BC Place and its lands to a private developer with the stipulation of building a new stadium, which could have been built by a private organization, w/attached condos/hotels/commercial and become yet another world class facility, instead of, what I suppose I didn't extrapalate earlier, an over priced bandaid to an outdated structure.

[Zassk]

It seems incredibly wasteful of taxpayers' money to tear down a 60,000 seat stadium after only 28 years. Yes, it happened to the Kingdome, but that was scandalous. Our building was not in dire shape like that one. Ours was structurally sound and built to last. It just happened to use a roof technology that requires periodic replacement and turned out to be a liability.

You might have been able to replace it with a stadium half the size for the same money. But who would want to be a tenant? You talked of convincing tenants to invest in the building or even replace it themselves, but what kind of franchise wants to own/invest in a smaller multipurpose stadium for that kind of money? By cutting the size down, you are cutting out any potential future big-money franchise.

More likely, you would have ended up with multiple small single-purpose seat stadiums instead - one by Kerfoot and another by Braley, for example - and in my opinion the city would have been worse off for it.

[officedweller]

The biggest issue for a "new stadium" was that it would likely have been located out in Surrey (or some other location where land is cheap).

Remember that the real estate vultures were circling BC Place before the decision to replace the roof rather than build a new stadium.

[TwoFace]

Last time I checked concrete can last for a very very long time, indefinitely if you like with proper maintenance.
Building a BIGGER stadium wouldn't make any sense as the current seating configuration is under-used with the exception of a Grey Cup game once every number of years.
The only way a bigger and better stadium would work is if we had the NFL and that ain't happening anytime soon.

[WarrenC12]

I think this new version will attract more events that can sell it out, specifically big name concerts. The acoustics in BC Place were terrible, and should improve with the new roof, including great summer shows with the roof open.

[TMW]

I've been VERY critical with this project since the beginning. For roughly 800m we could have built a state of state of the art facility.

However the farther along this project gets, the more I like it.

First of all, the stadium looks awesome from the exterior, check out the aerial shots from the previous page.

The opening is a good size. It covers the field of play for soccer, and only leaves out the endzones for CFL games. The fact that they have added drainage to the concrete and have the ability to leave the roof open in any weather is a huge bonus that I was not aware of until the other day listening to the Team 1040. Apparently its a team decision, in which case I'd be surprised if to see it closed on CFL and even MLS gamedays.

The interior upgrades are also pretty spectacular, new seats, a large central hung video scoreboard, as well as new lighting and sound will make the experience absolutely incredible.

The concourse and luxury suite upgrades have also been up to par in my opinion, way better than before. The concrete in the concourse isn't a problem for me anymore, it blends in nicely now.

I hated this project for so long. But now I can't really find a negative to it all, count me as a fan of the new BC Place.

[agrant]

The opening is a good size. It covers the field of play for soccer, and only leaves out the endzones for CFL games. The fact that they have added drainage to the concrete and have the ability to leave the roof open in any weather is a huge bonus that I was not aware of until the other day listening to the Team 1040. Apparently its a team decision, in which case I'd be surprised if to see it closed on CFL and even MLS gamedays.I think it'll feel smaller than what you'd get at other stadiums. Think of a giant skylight.

[logan5]

Yeah the stadium looks a lot better, but there's still a lot of bland grey and white. I wonder if it would have been totally crazy to paint the masts a different colour besides white.

[ckkelley]

Yeah the stadium looks a lot better, but there's still a lot of bland grey and white. I wonder if it would have been totally crazy to paint the masts a different colour besides white.

The whiteness likely comes into play at night when the LED lighting will constantly change the roof's appearance.

[dtrain]

Will be played at Commerzbank Arena, same roof style as new BC Place. Will be interesting to see how it looks on TV.

[VancouverPM]

Last time I checked concrete can last for a very very long time, indefinitely if you like with proper maintenance.
Building a BIGGER stadium wouldn't make any sense as the current seating configuration is under-used with the exception of a Grey Cup game once every number of years.
The only way a bigger and better stadium would work is if we had the NFL and that ain't happening anytime soon.

yup, concrete can last for a very long time, I wouldn't be as bold to say indefinitely as it is a man made product, but properly maintained you have years...

What I've noticed in this thread is, well it doesn't make sense to implode a stadium thats perfectly good...and nor does it make sense to spend half a billion dollars for the combination of interior and roof upgrades, when a brand new stadium, without a potentially troublesome roof could have been built for an price equal, or slightly higher, that would be built to today's standards, with today's building materials, that would last far longer than BC Place and its half a billion dollar renovation will.

[peterprinciple]

The new banner attached to the "centre node" displays the name HIGHTEX.
The company is installing the new membrane around the upper stadium perimeter and the roof.

Here's the link:

http://www.hightexworld.com/index.php

Go to Projects then click in progress.

[WarrenC12]

yup, concrete can last for a very long time, I wouldn't be as bold to say indefinitely as it is a man made product, but properly maintained you have years...

What I've noticed in this thread is, well it doesn't make sense to implode a stadium thats perfectly good...and nor does it make sense to spend half a billion dollars for the combination of interior and roof upgrades, when a brand new stadium, without a potentially troublesome roof could have been built for an price equal, or slightly higher, that would be built to today's standards, with today's building materials, that would last far longer than BC Place and its half a billion dollar renovation will.

I think it would end up being close to $1B after all was said and done. And it would be either out in Surrey somewhere, or on the existing site, but we'd be without a usable stadium for 4+ years.

I'm happy with the decision that was made.

[officedweller]

Thanks for the Hightex link.

TRhe cover for the retractable section is being hoisted up right now.

[VancouverPM]

I think it would end up being close to $1B after all was said and done. And it would be either out in Surrey somewhere, or on the existing site, but we'd be without a usable stadium for 4+ years.

I'm happy with the decision that was made.

a 1 Billion dollar projection is pure madness...even PAVCO wouldn't have been able to screw something up that bad...

Which is why if people read my earlier posts...the Stadium could have been built in DIRECT conjunction with a private developer...something along the lines of phasing it, starting the stadium in the parking lot, to streamline the process while the old stadium was demolished, utilizing the north east part of the side for residential/commercial development. So many options for the price tag we are paying for the roof and interior renovations...this really was a missed opportunity. There is no reason to think the stadium would be in Surrey, its possible through some cohesive and planning to have completed something on the current site without a 4 year time frame, 2 to 2.5 at best. Empire Field has served us well for the Whitecaps and the Lions for that time frame.

I find the whole reasons against a new stadium very close minded when the options were there, could have been there, but were never presented to the public...like I said a missed opportunity for Vancouver...

[ckkelley]

a 1 Billion dollar projection is pure madness...even PAVCO wouldn't have been able to screw something up that bad...

Which is why if people read my earlier posts...the Stadium could have been built in DIRECT conjunction with a private developer...something along the lines of phasing it, starting the stadium in the parking lot, to streamline the process while the old stadium was demolished, utilizing the north east part of the side for residential/commercial development. So many options for the price tag we are paying for the roof and interior renovations...this really was a missed opportunity. There is no reason to think the stadium would be in Surrey, its possible through some cohesive and planning to have completed something on the current site without a 4 year time frame, 2 to 2.5 at best. Empire Field has served us well for the Whitecaps and the Lions for that time frame.

I find the whole reasons against a new stadium very close minded when the options were there, could have been there, but were never presented to the public...like I said a missed opportunity for Vancouver...


Well obviously most of us disagree.

Why flog this dead horse? This decision has been made and the train has left the station I'm afraid. Why not explain how you think this project "will be atrocious" when it's finished? That's a comment that I found most bewildering.

[mr.x]

a 1 Billion dollar projection is pure madness...even PAVCO wouldn't have been able to screw something up that bad...

Which is why if people read my earlier posts...the Stadium could have been built in DIRECT conjunction with a private developer...something along the lines of phasing it, starting the stadium in the parking lot, to streamline the process while the old stadium was demolished, utilizing the north east part of the side for residential/commercial development. So many options for the price tag we are paying for the roof and interior renovations...this really was a missed opportunity. There is no reason to think the stadium would be in Surrey, its possible through some cohesive and planning to have completed something on the current site without a 4 year time frame, 2 to 2.5 at best. Empire Field has served us well for the Whitecaps and the Lions for that time frame.

I find the whole reasons against a new stadium very close minded when the options were there, could have been there, but were never presented to the public...like I said a missed opportunity for Vancouver...

I think you're severely underestimating the cost to build a brand new stadium of similar size to BC Place. Materials and labour are quite a bit more than you imagine.

$1-billion is quite a realistic figure, with a retractable roof and all. Even the expanded convention centre, one of the largest -- if not the largest -- buildings in the province, is close to $900-million. A new stadium would be of similar scope.

I wouldn't be so certain about a private contractor coming in, largely because of the restrictions placed within the City and by residents. Recall what happened to the casino-hotel proposal that was rejected right off the bat by city council, and the developers weren't even involved in the stadium project. If you got them involved with the stadium, they would likely want much...much...much more for their development, and that's something the city just doesn't have the balls for.

[Zassk]

Empire Field did not serve us "well". It was adequate as a stop-gap, nothing more. The location is atrocious and the services were terrible. People liked it because of the nostalgia factor, not because of its inherent qualities. The novelty has worn off already.

Stadiums cost a lot to build these days - especially in locations such as a polluted tidal flat. There is no evidence that BC Place could have been replaced for less than $1 billion. Regardless, building a new stadium every 28 years is incredibly wasteful.

[logan5]

Stadiums cost a lot to build these days - especially in locations such as a polluted tidal flat. There is no evidence that BC Place could have been replaced for less than $1 billion. Regardless, building a new stadium every 28 years is incredibly wasteful.

There is some evidence.

BC Place was built for 126 million dollars in the early eighties. Adjusted for inflation, that works out to 300 million. I believe the cost of labour has risen since that time at about the same rate as overall inflation, but I'm not sure about materials.

[logan5]

duplicate...

[VancouverPM]

I think you're severely underestimating the cost to build a brand new stadium of similar size to BC Place. Materials and labour are quite a bit more than you imagine.

$1-billion is quite a realistic figure, with a retractable roof and all. Even the expanded convention centre, one of the largest -- if not the largest -- buildings in the province, is close to $900-million. A new stadium would be of similar scope.

I wouldn't be so certain about a private contractor coming in, largely because of the restrictions placed within the City and by residents. Recall what happened to the casino-hotel proposal that was rejected right off the bat by city council, and the developers weren't even involved in the stadium project. If you got them involved with the stadium, they would likely want much...much...much more for their development, and that's something the city just doesn't have the balls for.

I'm pretty sure I'm not severely under-estimating the costs of labour and materials, I make a living at estimating the costs of labour and materials, and then when I'm awarded the projects I make a living at ensuring the construction schedules, timelines and budgets are held as close to reality as I can. What the public needs to understand is the labour costs are significantly less than during the construction of the Convention Centre, you can't compare construction costs between then and now as Labour is often the larger portion of the actual project, Concrete costs are down significantly as well. If you want a comparison in pricing...a High Rise in similar design that was built in the boom was down for structural concrete cost per sq ft contact area of $18...today that same building would be lucky, I stress the word lucky if it went for another about $9 per sq ft contact area...thats at least half the price as an example.

The convention centre had such a huge price tag partially to do with the aquatic piles, and fill that had to be factorered in to it, that upped the costs from materials, labour, design, and engineering. A building such as the convention centre built on solid land, would have been considerably less than the final costs of the Convention Centre. Again comparing a convention centre and its requirements to a sports stadium again are not exactly equal comparisons either. They are two incredibly different buildings and differents rates of production would apply to one and another, hence affecting labour. Just because it is a huge building does not mean its the same cost. For a point of random comparison the formwork contract on the Shangri La, tallest building as we all know in Vancouver was approx. 22 million...Vancouver's new UV Water Treatment plant had a formwork package of approx. 2 million...

The residents were not against a development attached to BC Place, they were against the Casino, and rightly so...that is the last thing downtown Vancouver needs, but Hotels, Condos, and Commerical, can't go wrong there, thats what drives Vancouver in many ways. I seem to recall the hotel/residential portions being approved, or approved on principal without the casino...the whole reason Van City shut that down was the damn greed associated with the Casino... Yes a developer would have been more than happy to become involved, I didn't come up with these ideas all on my own one day. If this project had been properly planned, instead of the hurry up wait and rush that started with the damage to the roof, we could have turned this into a world class sporting facility instead of a gussied up 25 year old concrete monoloth.

As for attrocious, the building was attrocious before, it is a sign of 1980's architecture, it is a big ugly lump of concrete, now instead of a big ugly lump of concrete with a bubble on the roof, its a big ugly lump of concrete with structural steel poking out every which way, a modern roof on a archacic body...its kind of like a 60 year old woman trying to act like a 20 year old bar star...the visual comparison is not something pleasing on the eyes, at least to most

[VancouverPM]

Empire Field did not serve us "well". It was adequate as a stop-gap, nothing more. The location is atrocious and the services were terrible. People liked it because of the nostalgia factor, not because of its inherent qualities. The novelty has worn off already.

Stadiums cost a lot to build these days - especially in locations such as a polluted tidal flat. There is no evidence that BC Place could have been replaced for less than $1 billion. Regardless, building a new stadium every 28 years is incredibly wasteful.

And I'd say Empire field served well, they've played their games for 2 years there, which is a little less than what I would estimate it would take for a competent contractor/developer to come in, demolish the old building, build a new one and turn the keys over...on top of that...it wouldn't have been all public money, work it as a P3 if you don't want to get rid of complete control of the land...

again, building a new stadium with MORE ameneties and features is wastful but HALF a BILLION on a retrofit isn't?...

1 billion is a fear mongering number, read my last post...labour is way down materials is way down...

[VancouverPM]

Oh yeah...and the largest NFL football stadium in the USA was built a few years ago for approx 750 million...sooooo evidence that a replaced BC place would be over 1 billion is beyond far fetched...

EDIT: my post should have said...ONE of...not the largest, and I'm sure there are stadiums well over that 1. Bil mark...also consider their size...

[oy1234]

cowboys stadium was built for $1.2 billion, the new jets/giants stadium was apparently $1.6 billion

[BCPhil]

Empire Field did not serve us "well". It was adequate as a stop-gap, nothing more. The location is atrocious and the services were terrible. People liked it because of the nostalgia factor, not because of its inherent qualities. The novelty has worn off already.

Stadiums cost a lot to build these days - especially in locations such as a polluted tidal flat. There is no evidence that BC Place could have been replaced for less than $1 billion. Regardless, building a new stadium every 28 years is incredibly wasteful.

There are very few stadiums out there costing more than $1 billion. Sure, there is the New Wembly or Cowboy stadium, but those are the exceptions, not the rule. If it was our mission to set out and build the worlds largest cable supported retractable roof, then sure, a new stadium would probably cost $1 billion. But I think the situation was more along the lines: we have a stadium, it needs a new roof, what can we do? The building probably wasn't strong enough to support a full steel roof, and just spectator coverings (like a coliseum) was out of the question as it would be unable to host conventions or concerts reliably. A cable supported roof was really the only option besides replacing the fabric on the old roof.

But that doesn't mean it was really the only thing, or the right thing to do. Other options weren't really considered. It was new roof or fix roof. No real long term options were considered, or what else could have been done with $600 million.

If we built from scratch, we could have made any design we wanted. There are several ballparks and stadium in the States with retractable roofs that come in well under $1 billion. Reliant Stadium at $400 Million, University of Phoenix stadium (which hosts the Cardinals, not just university teams) at $500 million, and Lucas Oil Stadium at $735 million. All of those have quite a bit more seating capacity than BC Place too.

Yes, it does seem like a bit of a waste to tear down a 30 year old building. But on the other hand, the option of waiting 5 or 10 years wasn't considered. Even when the roof is 30 years old, the oldest parts of the building will be 60. The age of the building affects the longevity of the roof, reducing its potential lifespan. We could have cheaply fixed the roof and held out with an adequate park while we consider the future of the city.

The sale of the land of BC Place could have been used to buy land for a new stadium, and it doesn't need to be out in Surrey. The False Creek flats come to mind as a site that could be available 10 to 15 years down the road. The land considered for the White Caps Waterfront stadium could have also been a contender also, as well as land across from the stadium on SEFC.

Building a large, retractable roof stadium near the convention center could justify any extra costs as it could be used to increase capacity of the convention center as a whole (attracting more conventions and expos) and construction could be part of upgrading Waterfront Station. And Portside park could be used to roll out a real grass field for it to grow, creating an amazing Waterfront Complex (where community sports can use the stadiums grass weeknights, then roll it inside for professional sports). Imagine the Convention Center West, Canada Place, and a Waterfront Stadium with integrated Seabus terminal lining the waterfront of Downtown Vancouver. It could have been a reality if we gave BC Place only another 10 years.

That said, we are already on a specific road, so there is little changing it. While it remains to be seen until opening day, it looks like BC Place's remodeling will make it a true world class facility with spectacular architectural design on the roof. I hope the large windows and roof make you feel like the stadium is in the open when really its not.

But I think VancouverPM has every right to complain about the decisions made with BC Place. While I think the new roof looks amazing and will be part of any postcard shot of Vancouver for years, I do question what else we could have done with $550 million. $550 million could have gone a long way to a building that would last longer than the current remodeling and resulted in a more modern facility. In the short term, the $550 million might have been the safest bet, but over the next 50 years I don't know if that will be true.

To put it in perspective, we have squabbled for years over less money to go towards a rapid transit line in the Tri-Cities that will see more riders per day than can sit in BC Place; yet there was no public consultation or alternative plans for BC Place. It was just done. Just think of how many people will board the Evergreen line every year compared with how many people will visit BC Place, but the Evergreen line is still stuck in bureaucratic limbo after years of debate and study while BC Place gets a render and built right away, without any real financing options in place.

On top of it all, many of the people of this province can't even truly enjoy what their taxes just paid for. I was looking today at tickets for the Lions at BC Place and you can't get in the door for under $40. Even nosebleeds along the sidelines go for $90. Good thing I don't have kids, or else I would have to find a sitter, because there is no way I would blow $200 to take a family to sit in the endzone of football game.

Why don't they at least open all the sections of the stadium at lower ticket prices for this year, so they can at least claim that the reopening of BC Place is a 100% capacity sell out? It just seems ridiculous to spend all this money on the stadium and not let as many people as possible enjoy it right after it opens.

For me anyway, the real test of whether BC Place was a good idea or not will come in 2015 when we host the Women's World Cup. With Toronto not participating, the final could be held in any city (they may as well just rename Toronto to Canada City). The main competition for hosting the final will be between BC Place, Commonwealth, and Olympic. If BC Place is not chosen over these aging and rather lackluster stadiums, then spending all this money on a roof will have been pretty much for nothing. If a $600 million roof and upgrade, rivaling the cost of any other complete stadium in Canada, doesn't push BC Place into being the premier facility in Canada, then what was the point?

[Zassk]

Looking at the cost of other stadiums built in the last 5 years, a cost near $1 billion seems in line for a waterfront covered stadium of this size built on poor soil with a retractable roof.

BC Place is no more on solid ground than the convention centre was. Any replacement would have to be built on pilings just like BC Place and the convention centre, and would also incur significant new soil remediation costs.

As for material and labour costs being down, those are also cyclic, so you can't cost a 4-year stadium project using today's costs. As for the rate of inflation, if you look at the cost of original Canada Place vs. the new convention centre, or the cost of Pacific Coliseum vs. GM Place, you see that the rise in construction costs far exceeds the rate of inflation.

(edited for tone)

[BCPhil]

cowboys stadium was built for $1.2 billion, the new jets/giants stadium was apparently $1.6 billion

Comparing BC Place to Cowboys stadium is like comparing a church just down the street from your house to the Sistine Chapel. For all intents and purposes, Dallas is the Vatican City of the football religion.

New Meadowlands Stadium is also quite the exception as it is considered the second largest stadium in the world and the most expensive sports stadium ever built, and entirely with private funds.

[logan5]

The inflated cost of BC Place was meant as some evidence, not concrete evidence. Another factor is the utilitarian nature of older stadiums vs new stadiums that have all the "bells and whistles".

[ckkelley]

As for attrocious, the building was attrocious before, it is a sign of 1980's architecture, it is a big ugly lump of concrete, now instead of a big ugly lump of concrete with a bubble on the roof, its a big ugly lump of concrete with structural steel poking out every which way, a modern roof on a archacic body...its kind of like a 60 year old woman trying to act like a 20 year old bar star...the visual comparison is not something pleasing on the eyes, at least to most

Dear god, it is nothing like that lol. Sure it might not be Meagan Fox in Transformers 1 but it certainly is not Cameron Diaz in Bad Teacher (yes Cameron, every sexy babe has a 'best before' date). Having written that, sure...I'd hit it.

[natelox]

I went on a tour of the stadium today with the architects and David Podmore. There was so much said that I can hardly repeat all of it. In short, some of the really interesting points:

1. The option of demolishing the stadium and building new was discussed early in the project's development. A study found that after the cost of demolition and servicing the new site, the Province would gain $250 million, but the cost of building a new stadium (at a less desirable location) was estimated at $1.2-1.4 billion.

2. $40 million in funding will come from the lands around the stadium, $60 million from PavCo's private funds, $150 million loan from the Provincial Government, payable over the next few decades (I think I heard 40 years) and the remaining is a Provincial grant.

3. The roof represents just less than half of the total renovation budget. The remaining has been invested in structural upgrading, seismic upgrading, interior renovations and other exterior improvements.

4. PavCo is using the renovation and the operable roof to generate more revenue and help the economy of the city. The stadium was not well utilized in the summer because it was completely enclosed. PavCo figures they have now extended the stadium's operating season by 40 to 50 days a year. They are also trying to attract some very large conferences. There are 40 conferences in the world that attract more than 40,000 delegates, and the combination of the stadium and the new Convention Centre (linked by Skytrain) is seen as an opportunity to attract those large conventions.

5. The new floor of the stadium not only has drainage, but is wired to the nines for convention purposes.

6. Telus is looking at sponsorship, although they haven't signed anything yet. However, they are supplying 750 flat screen TV screens for the concourses (This is in addition to 250 in the budget). Telus is looking to make the stadium a unique experience for cell phone users. Apparently their has been having difficulties handling large volumes of traffic (Photo and video uploads via mobiles) during and after events, so much so that their system crashes. The new stadium will be wired for much greater bandwidth.

7. The Hotel/Casino development was NOT rejected by council. I thought it had been, but the only component of the development that was not passed was the application for 1500 slot machines. The City limited that to 600. Otherwise that project will be starting shortly.

8. The crane they used at the initial stages of the project is one of only three in the world large enough for the project. It arrived to the site in 72 shipping containers. I believe it was transported by train from Alberta.

9. There was talk about a public open-house during construction, near the end of July. Keep your ears to the ground.

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/7807/dsc07790m.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1577/dsc07800px.jpg
If you look at the top of the concrete structure, you can see the installation of a white material. This is an acoustical material intended to dampen the reverberation in the stadium (previously estimated at 6 seconds).

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/636/dsc07799a.jpg
The cylinder suspended in the center of the image will hide the retractable portion of the roof. It is not intended to move anywhere else. The large square shaped projection dangling below the "garage" or "hub" will house the video screens. That housing can be lowered to the floor. As for a neat fact, the hub is 5000 ft2.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9797/dsc07781n.jpg
If you look closely at the retractable portion of the roof, you can see it is made of two separate parts. The retractable portion will be installed in four sections, then the sections will be heat-welded together.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3626/dsc07801a.jpg
This structure runs around the perimeter of the upper tier. It will support a continuous electronic screen. It will also house the retractable curtain for concealing the upper tiers.

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/5024/dsc07818ww.jpg
Interior of renovated gate A.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2622/dsc07822y.jpg

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7499/dsc07814u.jpg
Top of the ramps with new glazing.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1331/dsc07798e.jpg
Upper concourse.

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7637/dsc07824m.jpg
(Sorry for the poor photo). This is the wall that one sees when looking at the stadium from Robson Street. A very large TV Screen will be attached to the wall.

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/5017/dsc07807c.jpg
If you look under the springing point of the large grey-colored steel cantilever, you will see to pieces of steel that look like shoes. These are slide bearings for the steel roof structure. The roof can move independently of the concrete structure by up to 24".

[jlousa]

Thanks for the great pics, a little disappointed they didn't go with glass for the exterior canopy but other then that it's looking really sharp. Looks like they will be really busy over then next 10 weeks to finish this guy up.

Glad to hear the Casino is still going ahead, it wasn't just the slot expansion that was turned down though it was also the table expansion, so it's free to move over but only at the same amount of slots and tables, but they are also free to reapply for expansion at a later date.

[ckkelley]

Thanks for those pix natelox. It's lookin' great, inside and out!

[Hed Kandi]

Comparing BC Place to Cowboys stadium is like comparing a church just down the street from your house to the Sistine Chapel. For all intents and purposes, Dallas is the Vatican City of the football religion.


For all intents and purposes, THIS is the Sistine Chapel of stadiums..

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=79644022&postcount=419

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=79644046&postcount=420

:previous:

:slob::slob::slob:

[WarrenC12]

Wow fantastic pictures. Sept 30th can't come fast enough!

I was a little shocked at the lack of attendance for the Lions' home opener (as a season ticket holder for many years now). The luster really has worn off of Empire. Despite bottom filled beer and shorter lineups, transit is atrocious, washrooms are crap, and the seats are not great.

[LeftCoaster]

Wow fantastic pictures. Sept 30th can't come fast enough!

I was a little shocked at the lack of attendance for the Lions' home opener (as a season ticket holder for many years now). The luster really has worn off of Empire. Despite bottom filled beer and shorter lineups, transit is atrocious, washrooms are crap, and the seats are not great.

Wasnt the lions home opener at the same time as game 7?? I mean really, even non-hockey fans were watching that one.

Thanks for the pics, the little details are looking great.

[vanlaw]

Wasnt the lions home opener at the same time as game 7?? I mean really, even non-hockey fans were watching that one.

Thanks for the pics, the little details are looking great.

That was preseason. Regular season home opener was last Friday.

I agree, Empire was decent for one season, but its time to get back downtown.

[go_leafs_go02]

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3626/dsc07801a.jpg
This structure runs around the perimeter of the upper tier. It will support a continuous electronic screen. It will also house the retractable curtain for concealing the upper tiers.


Woah woah woah, this screams issues with sightlines to me, especially in the first few rows. Hope I'm wrong - but I know Citifield (MLB Mets) had that problem where they installed the LED boards far too high at first and were forced to lower them because they caused the first row or two to have restricted visibility.

[Prometheus]

Thanks for the photos. It will be very interesting and exciting to see the final product.

A couple of things:

1) Regarding that acoustical material around the upper perimeter of the bowl: I hope it will look better when the stadium is finished. Because, right now, from the photos, it sort of looks like tacky aluminum siding with some weird coloured gaps (possibly unfinished spots). As of now, the look of this material seems incongruent with the aesthetics of the rest of the stadium. (Just imagine if it was one giant LED video wall instead.)

2) Regarding the hanging curtains that are supposed to obscure the empty upper tier during Whitecaps games: I think the Whitecaps are going in the wrong direction on this point. They should do exactly what the Seattle Sounders do at Qwest Field. They should have special coverings professionally tailored and designed to fit snugly and precisely over each upper tier section of seats. On the coverings there would be team and premier sponsor logos. Like Qwest Field, the coverings should be designed so that a very large image bleeds across sections (like putting together a series of individual photographs to create one large panorama).

Qwest Field:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/Qwest_seattle_sounders_pregame.jpg/800px-Qwest_seattle_sounders_pregame.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/Qwest_seattle_sounders_pregame.html

The superiority of the above approach is obvious. You preserve the open majesty of the new space while camouflaging the empty seats in a stylistcally pleasing and financially beneficial way. The curtains the Whitecaps are planning to use, by contrast, will choke off the grandness and beauty of the new space and block light from and views to the amazing new high-tech, LED-reflecting celestory windows, not to mention they just look silly and unprofessional.

For a realistic view of how the proposed curtains will look, see here: http://whitecaps.io-media.com/

[VancouverPM]

[QUOTE=natelox;5347808]I went on a tour of the stadium today with the architects and David Podmore. There was so much said that I can hardly repeat all of it. In short, some of the really interesting points:

1. The option of demolishing the stadium and building new was discussed early in the project's development. A study found that after the cost of demolition and servicing the new site, the Province would gain $250 million, but the cost of building a new stadium (at a less desirable location) was estimated at $1.2-1.4 billion.

2. $40 million in funding will come from the lands around the stadium, $60 million from PavCo's private funds, $150 million loan from the Provincial Government, payable over the next few decades (I think I heard 40 years) and the remaining is a Provincial grant.

3. The roof represents just less than half of the total renovation budget. The remaining has been invested in structural upgrading, seismic upgrading, interior renovations and other exterior improvements.

4. PavCo is using the renovation and the operable roof to generate more revenue and help the economy of the city. The stadium was not well utilized in the summer because it was completely enclosed. PavCo figures they have now extended the stadium's operating season by 40 to 50 days a year. They are also trying to attract some very large conferences. There are 40 conferences in the world that attract more than 40,000 delegates, and the combination of the stadium and the new Convention Centre (linked by Skytrain) is seen as an opportunity to attract those large conventions.


8. The crane they used at the initial stages of the project is one of only three in the world large enough for the project. It arrived to the site in 72 shipping containers. I believe it was transported by train from Alberta.
[QUOTE]

a couple comments I felt compelled to make...if PAVCO came up with an initial budget of 1.2 to 1.4 Billion they must have been having their meeting on April 20th on some year, thats assinine and ridiculous to even comprehend the costs being that high. ESPECIALLY as I've already pointed out the current labour rates - it just goes to show how inept leadership has been in some areas...sad really, less lining their buddies pockets and more cost controls and measures in place, we would have far more world class facilities in place...my thoughts and opinions

the crane that was used in the initial stages of the project...is one of only three TYPES of cranes in the world, it is not one of only three cranes in the world, if that is what they are saying, they need to as usual check some facts first, I know of at least a dozen locations world wide that cranes that size are being used as I'm writing this...when little facts like this are embellished by our good friends at PAVCO, it makes me scratch my head that much more on figures such as 1.2 and 1.4 billion.

[peterprinciple]

Taking into consideration all of the interior renovations that took place prior to the Olympic Games and given the replacement of electrical systems, HVAC, new roof, new field, new seats, new glass exterior additions including doors and ramp windows, entry canopies since March 2010...what essentially was left of the original stadium is the concrete bowl.
563 million dollars is quite a modest expense. This will extend the life of the stadium by another 40 years. By the way...the so-called, "Sistine Chapel of Stadiums" mentioned above does not have a retractable roof.

[agrant]

Thanks for the photos. It will be very interesting and exciting to see the final product.

A couple of things:

1) Regarding that acoustical material around the upper perimeter of the bowl. I hope it will look better when the stadium is finished. Because, right now, from the photos, it sort of looks like tacky aluminum siding with some weird coloured gaps (possibly unfinished spots). As of now, the look of this material seems incongruent with the aesthetics of the rest of the stadium. (Just imagine if it was one giant LED video wall instead.)

2) Regarding the veil that is supposed to obscure the empty upper tier during Whitecaps games. I think the Whitecaps are going in the wrong direction on this point. They should do exactly what the Seattle Sounders do at Qwest Field. They should have special coverings professionally tailored and designed to fit snugly and precisely over each upper tier section of seats. On the coverings there would be team and premier sponsor logos. Like Qwest Field, the coverings should be designed so that a very large image bleeds across sections (like putting together a series of individual photographs to create one large panorama).

Qwest Field:

The superiority of the above approach is obvious. You preserve the open majesty of the new space while camouflaging the empty seats in a stylistcally pleasing and financially beneficial way. The curtains the Whitecaps are planning to use, by contrast, will choke off the grandness and beauty of the new space and block light from and views to the amazing new high-tech, LED-reflecting celestory windows, not to mention they just look silly and unprofessional. See here: http://whitecaps.io-media.com/The acoustical material that you see will most likely have another layer, which I'm guessing would look much different. You can see horizontal ribs for the outer layer to be put over top.

I agree with you regarding the Qwest appoach on upper tier coverings.

[Vancity]

Thanks for the photos. It will be very interesting and exciting to see the final product.

A couple of things:

1) Regarding that acoustical material around the upper perimeter of the bowl. I hope it will look better when the stadium is finished. Because, right now, from the photos, it sort of looks like tacky aluminum siding with some weird coloured gaps (possibly unfinished spots). As of now, the look of this material seems incongruent with the aesthetics of the rest of the stadium. (Just imagine if it was one giant LED video wall instead.)

2) Regarding the veil that is supposed to obscure the empty upper tier during Whitecaps games. I think the Whitecaps are going in the wrong direction on this point. They should do exactly what the Seattle Sounders do at Qwest Field. They should have special coverings professionally tailored and designed to fit snugly and precisely over each upper tier section of seats. On the coverings there would be team and premier sponsor logos. Like Qwest Field, the coverings should be designed so that a very large image bleeds across sections (like putting together a series of individual photographs to create one large panorama).

Qwest Field:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/Qwest_seattle_sounders_pregame.jpg/800px-Qwest_seattle_sounders_pregame.jpg

The superiority of the above approach is obvious. You preserve the open majesty of the new space while camouflaging the empty seats in a stylistcally pleasing and financially beneficial way. The curtains the Whitecaps are planning to use, by contrast, will choke off the grandness and beauty of the new space and block light from and views to the amazing new high-tech, LED-reflecting celestory windows, not to mention they just look silly and unprofessional. See here: http://whitecaps.io-media.com/

couldn't agree with you more on this. I hope the 'Caps look to their rivals to the south, and see how they've decorated their upper deck of their stadium, and we follow suit. the 'caps aren't in USL anymore. they are in MLS. top flight soccer in north america. they should, and need to behave like a top organization, and not cheap on the asthetics aspect with regards to covering the upper bowl of BC Place.

I guess we'll see in a few months, what their plans are. hopefully, it doesn't look second rated. what an embarassement that'd be :S

[wrenegade]

$563M is not a modest expense. How long will it take to recoup those costs, does the business plan even allow for that or do the Lions/Whitecaps plus other events just cover op costs. I really don't see too many large convention events that need to be held here. The new VCEC seems to have worked pretty well in the interim. I maintain that this entire project is a huge waste of money. It's not terribly pretty to boot. I eagerly await the construction of buildings around it so it blocks the view of this monstrosity.

Yes I know I am in the minority on this one. I really hope I don't have to say "I told you so" if the province were ever to try and sell this thing, I'm sure it would end up something like the Skydome (Built for $570M (1986 dollars at that) and sold for $25M).

[Zassk]

It's easy to compare to other stadiums and say "too expensive!", but it's obvious that PavCo is assuming an apples-to-apples comparison:

1) retractable roof
2) west coast seismic codes
3) poor ground conditions
4) expensive real estate location

Any stadium that meets all 4 of these probably costs $1 billion or more.

Of course we could have probably built a replacement for much less, if it had one or more of the following conditions:

A) open air
B) built in the suburbs
C) built on escarpment
D) clean soil
E) built below code

But any such stadium would have sat empty for 300+ days per year, rather than being booked for events 200+ days per year.

[mr.x]

Thanks for the photos. It will be very interesting and exciting to see the final product.

A couple of things:

1) Regarding that acoustical material around the upper perimeter of the bowl: I hope it will look better when the stadium is finished. Because, right now, from the photos, it sort of looks like tacky aluminum siding with some weird coloured gaps (possibly unfinished spots). As of now, the look of this material seems incongruent with the aesthetics of the rest of the stadium. (Just imagine if it was one giant LED video wall instead.)

2) Regarding the hanging curtains that are supposed to obscure the empty upper tier during Whitecaps games: I think the Whitecaps are going in the wrong direction on this point. They should do exactly what the Seattle Sounders do at Qwest Field. They should have special coverings professionally tailored and designed to fit snugly and precisely over each upper tier section of seats. On the coverings there would be team and premier sponsor logos. Like Qwest Field, the coverings should be designed so that a very large image bleeds across sections (like putting together a series of individual photographs to create one large panorama).

Qwest Field:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/Qwest_seattle_sounders_pregame.jpg/800px-Qwest_seattle_sounders_pregame.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/Qwest_seattle_sounders_pregame.html

The superiority of the above approach is obvious. You preserve the open majesty of the new space while camouflaging the empty seats in a stylistcally pleasing and financially beneficial way. The curtains the Whitecaps are planning to use, by contrast, will choke off the grandness and beauty of the new space and block light from and views to the amazing new high-tech, LED-reflecting celestory windows, not to mention they just look silly and unprofessional.

For a realistic view of how the proposed curtains will look, see here: http://whitecaps.io-media.com/

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Whitecaps are paying for the seat-hiding curtains? Thought it was part of the renovation project...

[logan5]

Regarding the hanging curtains that are supposed to obscure the empty upper tier during Whitecaps games: I think the Whitecaps are going in the wrong direction on this point. They should do exactly what the Seattle Sounders do at Qwest Field.


I actually agree with you on this. The white sheets give the stadium the same sterile feel that we had before with the white inflatable roof. Maybe if they used coloured fabric with a graphic design of some sort?

[peterprinciple]

Something that does worry me is the alternating colour on the roof panels. I fear it my look more like a circus tent than a stadium roof.

[mezzanine]

8. The crane they used at the initial stages of the project is one of only three in the world large enough for the project. It arrived to the site in 72 shipping containers. I believe it was transported by train from Alberta.

...

the crane that was used in the initial stages of the project...is one of only three TYPES of cranes in the world, it is not one of only three cranes in the world, if that is what they are saying, they need to as usual check some facts first, I know of at least a dozen locations world wide that cranes that size are being used as I'm writing this...when little facts like this are embellished by our good friends at PAVCO, it makes me scratch my head that much more on figures such as 1.2 and 1.4 billion.

no, natelox is correct (http://http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/2010wintergames/remaking+stadium+exclusive+look+inside+Place/3714219/story.html).


On the floor of the stadium sits the world's second largest moving crane, a huge machine that lifts on to the rim of the bowl each of the cabling masts. On Friday, the Texas-owned crane put into place with surgical precision the 19th mast since the project started in April with the deflation and removal of the old Teflon roof.


http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/2010wintergames/remaking+stadium+exclusive+look+inside+Place/3714219/story.html

[invisibleairwaves]

I'm definitely happy to see some acoustical treatment going into the stadium. 6 second reverberations? That's hilariously awful. Stadiums are never going to be great-sounding venues but it's nice to see they're putting some real thought into the sound of the place.

[Prometheus]

Something that does worry me is the alternating colour on the roof panels. I fear it my look more like a circus tent than a stadium roof.

Oh my God, I just checked the webcam and you are not joking. I really, really, really hope that I am not seeing what it looks like I am seeing. Because such a decision would be absolutely inexplicable and insane.

A white and salmon roof?!?!? Somebody please tell us that this is not really happening.

[osirisboy]

Oh my God, I just checked the webcam and you are not joking. I really, really, really hope that I am not seeing what it looks like I am seeing. Because such a decision would be absolutely inexplicable and insane.

A white and salmon roof?!?!? Somebody please tell us that this is not really happening.

Im just making a guess but maybe its like the new canada place roof and some of the roof needs time to whiten with time in the sun???

[peterprinciple]

Oh my God, I just checked the webcam and you are not joking. I really, really, really hope that I am not seeing what it looks like I am seeing. Because such a decision would be absolutely inexplicable and insane.

A white and salmon roof?!?!? Somebody please tell us that this is not really happening.

Just fired off a quick note to Pavco to see what they say about this. Holding my breath. Will post as soon as I know.

[mr.x]

Oh my God, I just checked the webcam and you are not joking. I really, really, really hope that I am not seeing what it looks like I am seeing. Because such a decision would be absolutely inexplicable and insane.

A white and salmon roof?!?!? Somebody please tell us that this is not really happening.

The roof material is similar to the new sails that went up on Canada Place. Those sails were a little salmon coloured as well, but were sun bleached white within just a few months. No biggie.:tup:

[VancouverPM]

no, natelox is correct (http://http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/2010wintergames/remaking+stadium+exclusive+look+inside+Place/3714219/story.html).




http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/2010wintergames/remaking+stadium+exclusive+look+inside+Place/3714219/story.html

I always believe the Vancouver Sun, they are excellently accurate in the information they always utilize...especially when they get it from PAVCO...

First and foremost...Mammoet, the OWNER of the crane is a Netherlands based company, the crane is more than likely BASED from Texas, but not owned by a Texas based company...secondly...Mammoet as of 2006 had a minimum of 4 of these cranes BUILT, I understand there have been a couple more built since that time, including a good friend operating one, with another one within his eye shot. There are other crane companies who manufacturer and/or have cranes as large as the one that was utilized at BC Place. I'm not speaking out of my arse, my history, is Heavy Lift Cranes, Tower Cranes, Highrises and Major Infrastructure Projects in BC and Alberta...I'll take the word of Mammoet that built and OWNS the crane over the often misconstrued or poor reporting I consistently find regarding Construction, Construction Equipment and developments in the Vancouver Sun.

Ohhhh and according to press releases from even PAVCO's website...the crane arrived in 85 shipping containers, which as I understand it from one of the operators of said units, its the accurate number...not 72...

For more information on the crane, please feel free to visit Mammoet's website...

[peterprinciple]

The roof material is similar to the new sails that went up on Canada Place. Those sails were a little salmon coloured as well, but were sun bleached white within just a few months. No biggie.:tup:

Hi Doug,

Rest assured, this is not the case…

The PTFE material used for the fixed roof is manufactured and supplied as a light brown/salmon pink coloured material that you are seeing in the webcams. It is designed to bleach white within a couple of days of exposure to sunlight.

Thus, the initial panel that was installed is white, whilst the newest panels being installed adjacent to this are a different colour until they have been exposed to sufficient sunlight.

Ultimately, the entire fixed roof will be a consistent shade of white (and not salmon pink).

Best regards,
Duncan
BC PLACE

[agrant]

Seems like a few of you guys just need to wait until the darn thing is done!

[Prometheus]

Good to hear.

[mezzanine]

Ohhhh and according to press releases from even PAVCO's website...the crane arrived in 85 shipping containers, which as I understand it from one of the operators of said units, its the accurate number...not 72...



Thanks for clarifying that. :)

[Spork]

[...] ESPECIALLY as I've already pointed out the current labour rates - it just goes to show how inept leadership has been in some areas...sad really, less lining their buddies pockets and more cost controls and measures in place, we would have far more world class facilities in place...my thoughts and opinions[...]


Unfortunately opinions don't count here. Only facts do (http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/econ144b-eng.htm). Construction labour rates have risen 11% since 2007.

[Jebby]

the 'caps aren't in USL anymore. they are in MLS. top flight soccer in north america.

Not true at all. Top soccer league in North America is Mexico's Primera División by far. It's top-12 in the world, MLS isn't even close to that.

[mr.x]

Whitecaps game at Empire canceled because of rain today....nuff said:

http://www.vancouversun.com/Whitecaps+game+cancelled+against+Real+Salt+Lake+pooring+rain/5113948/story.html

[Locked In]

^ Bad timing - I expect part of the reason is that they're trying to preserve the turf for Monday's game against Man City (they'd have to refund those tickets...). That said, I had tickets for today, and I'm not exactly gutted about it being postponed...

[cc85]

http://scorethefirstgoal.bell.ca/

Seems like there will be a Bell Pitch at BC Place

[Yume-sama]

I know sports writers generally aren't considered well respected journalists, but; "Pooring rain". Really?

[vanlaw]

^ Bad timing - I expect part of the reason is that they're trying to preserve the turf for Monday's game against Man City (they'd have to refund those tickets...). That said, I had tickets for today, and I'm not exactly gutted about it being postponed...

Yeah - the natural turf was installed over a layer of plastic which was on top of the field turf, so it just doesn't drain. If Man City game wasn't Monday and natural turf laid down, the game would have gone today. Hoping for a rescheduled date at BC Place

[vanlaw]

http://scorethefirstgoal.bell.ca/

Seems like there will be a Bell Pitch at BC Place

Now that is interesting. I cant imagine there would be a "Bell Pitch" inside a Telus branded stadium....maybe Bell is going to be the sponsor?

[GeeCee]

The rules for the contest state specifically:

BC Place Stadium at Bell Pitch Downtown

Telus and Bell are pretty close these days. I could see it happening.

[MJDDawg]

Long time lurker, but first post. I've been wondering about the draping of the upper bowl for the Whitecaps since I saw the first renderings of those hideous curtains hanging from the roof, hoping that Pavco would go the Qwest field route. Unfortunately Pavco has confirmed they are going the hanging curtain route. I really don't like the look. If anything, in my view it takes away the beauty of the main roof, the clerestory panels and the general openness of the new interior. Use of the projection system on those curtains might be interesting though. Here's their response to my request for info:

Vancouver Whitecaps FC will employ an innovative custom curtain to create an intimate atmosphere within BC Place. Please see the attached rendering for reference. This material will be semi-transparent to allow light to pass through, and will also function as a massive projector screen for custom light shows – something that CenturyLink Field (formerly Qwest Field) is not able to achieve with their static coverings.

The façade windows and the open retractable roof will still be visible from most vantage points within the lower bowl.
The custom curtain is one of many innovative features that will be showcased in the new BC Place, and I hope your first Whitecaps experience in the new stadium exceeds your expectations.

Kind regards,

Duncan
BC PLACE

Pic courtesy of Pavco.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6133/5944588589_b958ea76de_b.jpg

[Pinion]

I actually like the way that works. I was imagining straight vertical walls of curtain coming down from the ceiling, blocking the panels.

[Prometheus]

That is an over-idealized rendering. For a more realistic view of what the experience will probably be like, look at the Whitecaps' own animated computer model they are using to sell tickets: http://whitecaps.io-media.com/

As you can see, the vast majority of the celestory windows will be hidden from view and the experience seems enclosed and cramped.

I am just glad that the B.C. Lions are not planning to cut their fans off from experiencing the full richness of the newly-refurbished stadium's open atmosphere. After all, that is the whole purpose of the renovations: to open things up, not enclose them in even further. If I am paying for a ticket to go to the new stadium, then I want to experience all of it.

[Sprawl]

Looks good to me, all my concerns have been addressed. You've also got to consider the fact they're intending to go after large-scale conventions, and having a giant Pepsi logo wouldn't be appropriate for that.

[red-paladin]

Please don't get all offended at me for saying this, I'm not saying this should happen, or I want this to happen, I am just skeptical of all this 'soccer renaissance in Vancouver' stuff.

I think that it's likely that the Whitecaps never sell enough tickets to even consistently sell out the lower section, and leave for a smaller venue in a few years, just like when soccer left BC Place before.

So once again please don't post replies about how I'm an idiot, as I hope I'm wrong, I just doubt it can work out the way the optimists / soccer 'boosters' hope. I still know almost no one who is interested in even watching the Whitecaps on TV, let alone going to a game, and most of the people I know are born overseas.

[jlousa]

I'm a tad more optimistic about the Whitecaps, Vancouver is a much bigger city then it was 25yrs ago and the MSL seems to be in better shape then the old NASL. Of course if the Whitecaps do not improve their own field performance I reckon you'll be right. The best thing that could happen to the Whitecaps is a couple of very strong seasons after moving into the dome to build their fanbase.

I noticed in the pics the bottom of the stands which acts as the ceiling for the concourse level painted white. I don't remember them being white before and thought they were just exposed concrete? While I like concrete I feel the white paint adds to a brighter more inviting atmosphere.

[gillty]

That is an over-idealized rendering. For a more realistic view of what the experience will probably be like, look at the Whitecaps' own animated computer model they are using to sell tickets: http://whitecaps.io-media.com/
http://www.abload.de/img/untitled-3tnow2uqa.png
sidebyside by myself

Looks pretty much the same thing other than the IoMedia render not being lit, probably more realistic considering its Vancouver. ;)

[agrant]

Please don't get all offended at me for saying this, I'm not saying this should happen, or I want this to happen, I am just skeptical of all this 'soccer renaissance in Vancouver' stuff.

I think that it's likely that the Whitecaps never sell enough tickets to even consistently sell out the lower section, and leave for a smaller venue in a few years, just like when soccer left BC Place before.

So once again please don't post replies about how I'm an idiot, as I hope I'm wrong, I just doubt it can work out the way the optimists / soccer 'boosters' hope. I still know almost no one who is interested in even watching the Whitecaps on TV, let alone going to a game, and most of the people I know are born overseas.There really isn't a renaissance. The only thing that has changed is the caps are now playing in MLS. A lot of the soccer boosters would hope they DO move out as soon as possible, into a stadium built specifically for soccer. As a fan, the downtown location is great, but give me a fully open roof with natural grass any day.

"I still know almost no one who is interested in even watching the Whitecaps on TV, let alone going to a game"
<<< That's kinda like saying I know very few people that are into Lady Gaga music, and go to her concerts. It really depends on who you've grown up with or hang out with. But yea, the Whitecaps obviously have a much smaller share of sports fans here compared to the Canucks.

[Prometheus]

What I meant was that the static nature of PAVCO's render fails to reflect the experience that a person (with a movable neck) will have. By using the Whitecaps' computer model you can pan around and get a more realistic view of how omni-present and smothering the curtains will be. Panning around on the computer model shows that the curtains will allow you to see only about 13 full celestory windows out of 36. And the closer you sit to the pitch, the fewer full celestory windows the curtains will allow you to see. Thus, as I said, the curtains will block the vast majority of the celestory windows and negate much of the stadium's newly opened atmosphere.

Again, here is the Whitecaps' model: http://whitecaps.io-media.com/. Make sure to pan around like you would in real life.

[jsbertram]

Now that is interesting. I cant imagine there would be a "Bell Pitch" inside a Telus branded stadium....maybe Bell is going to be the sponsor?

Isn't Bell the prime sponsor for the Whitecaps?

[Vancity]

Not true at all. Top soccer league in North America is Mexico's Primera División by far. It's top-12 in the world, MLS isn't even close to that.

Sorry. When I said North America, I meant to only include the USA and Canada. Not Mexico (even though geographically, it would be included).

[peterprinciple]

Sent a note off to PAVCO re: Interior Cam...it should be back online this afternoon.

[officedweller]

I went on a tour of the stadium today with the architects and David Podmore. There was so much said that I can hardly repeat all of it. In short, some of the really interesting points:


Thanks for the pics!

Looks like there's something like a soffit being installed inside the stadium under the main ring to cover up all of the new structural elements.

[VancouverPM]

Unfortunately opinions don't count here. Only facts do (http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/econ144b-eng.htm). Construction labour rates have risen 11% since 2007.

my opinion of the building is one thing...MY cold hard facts on Construction costs are another one altogether. Those figures represent UNION labour only and do not respresent NON-union labour...If you take a look around the lower mainland right now, you'd be hard pressed to find too many formwork contractors that are union and doing work right now...there is a lot of non-union work going on out there right now...if you perhaps didn't read what my job is, I see the figures, the facts and the costs on an hourly basis, take your stats can and believe it as the gospel if you must, or take the facts from someone on the front lines...I leave that option up to you.

[ckkelley]

my opinion of the building is one thing...MY cold hard facts on Construction costs are another one altogether. Those figures represent UNION labour only and do not respresent NON-union labour...If you take a look around the lower mainland right now, you'd be hard pressed to find too many formwork contractors that are union and doing work right now...there is a lot of non-union work going on out there right now...if you perhaps didn't read what my job is, I see the figures, the facts and the costs on an hourly basis, take your stats can and believe it as the gospel if you must, or take the facts from someone on the front lines...I leave that option up to you.

Dude, the fact that you put your 'credentials' in your sig isn't helping you. It's somewhat akin to posting an IQ and telling everyone how smart you are. When in fact, if a person has to tell people how smart they are.....they aren't.