General Update/Rumour thread

[Uhuniau]

I think that would be Domicile's Hom (with the silly liney-bar accent on the "o"), wouldn't it?

They should have gone with Höm. Everything's more bad-ass with umlauts.

[Dado]

:previous:

But that would make it sound roughly like "hmm".

I think that would be Domicile's Hom (with the silly liney-bar accent on the "o"), wouldn't it?

I have easy Alt+Gr access to most accents, but that one requires digging through the character selector:

Hōm

We used that accent in elementary school to learn when those letters were pronounced "long", which is a freaking misnomer anyway.

Personallŷ, Ï þink wë sjød refårm ðë entïr ritten langwidj.

[S-Man]

All this weirdo talk is freaking me out!

And no, it's not Domicile, it's whoever bought the pet cemetary (sorry - "shelter") site.

[McC]

All this weirdo talk is freaking me out!

And no, it's not Domicile, it's whoever bought the pet cemetary (sorry - "shelter") site.

oh, that was Ashcroft, wasn't it?

[S-Man]

It sure was. I don't like the height they're proposing for right next to the park. I'm pro-intensification, hell, I live on that street, but this is the only development proposed for the street that needs to be halved in height. That park is always hopping, and needs some light in the winter.

Build 30 stories at Champagne and Csrling - what do I care - but next to the park you need to tone it down.

[ThaLoveDocta]

It sure was. I don't like the height they're proposing for right next to the park. I'm pro-intensification, hell, I live on that street, but this is the only development proposed for the street that needs to be halved in height. That park is always hopping, and needs some light in the winter.

Build 30 stories at Champagne and Csrling - what do I care - but next to the park you need to tone it down.

NIMB... Park?:cool:

I'm inclined to agree... that park's going to get mighty dark and depressing in January if it's completely shaded over.

[S-Man]

Especially when you consider that the neighbouring SoHo lot to the south will be 16 and 20 storeys. Stepping up in height from that to this to a small park would just look weird.
I'm sure the idea behind it is to have it argued down to a height still taller than what would be acceptable if it was proposed outright.

[Cre47]

City of Gatineau will eventually expriopriate a large number of decrepit homes near Montcalm Street as part of planned construction. Hopefully some density will be added there as well.

In the French forum, there are mentions about additionnal multi-story residential buildings along Maisonneuve, pretty close to an existant lot full of weeds across and past the St. Hubert restaurant

[S-Man]

Montacalm Street should be first on the restoration list. It is the edge of downtown and is a big route from high-density parts north (St. Joseph and such)

[urbandreamer]

SoBa Ottawa looks pretty hot, which is why it's this week's renderpornstar (http://renderpornstar.com/) :) Sales to launch soon?

What do y'all think of http://www.chi-condos.com/ ? Hot or not?

[MountainView]

The Office development at Baseline and Clyde has finally started to begin. This is to the immediate west of the new walmart supercentre. I drive by this area quite often and today they were putting in the base for the crane and the pit is probably 10-15m below ground. It will have a covered parkade and I believe the sign out front of the development lists the building at 6 floors, although the pictures make it seem like 5. 19000sq/ft Class A office space, LEED certified is their goal. I'm not sure if this has ever been discussed, so in case it hasn't here are some pictures I found for the development.

http://www.collierscanada.com/services/PropertyFile.ashx?src=p&lid=f0853214c2244833a1653ac097c43969&bid=4fc20f8559d74f079283240e871adbde&w=762&h=562&q=80

http://www.collierscanada.com/services/PropertyFile.ashx?src=p&lid=f0853214c2244833a1653ac097c43969&bid=1360f612f8ea4066981f6ae68c51781a&w=762&h=562&q=80

[McC]

"SIGN"? HA, I love it!

[rocketphish]

...there is an unconfirmed but credible report that the properties are being sold to Minto for redevelopment....

I wonder if Minto is behind this dirty move?

New Edinburgh baker defies property owner, refuses to close after locks changed

Business survived huge fire last year

By Robert Sibley, Ottawa Citizen, April 7, 2012

Two days after his bakery nearly became one of a dozen businesses destroyed in a five-alarm fire last year on Beechwood Avenue in New Edinburgh, Chris Green hung a defiant sign in the shop window: "Open - Thanks for your business."

Late this week - shortly after 2: 30 a.m. Thursday, to be precise - bailiffs acting on orders of the property owner, New Edinburgh Centre, slapped locks on the store in an attempt to prevent Green from opening Bread and Roses Bakery ever again.

An hour later, Green received a phone call from a partner of New Edinburgh Centre, Helen Carter, informing him that he was locked out because he'd violated the terms of his lease.

Green, however, wasn't going to shut up shop that easily.

"As soon as my baker left at 2: 30, the bailiffs went in to change the lock on the doors," he says.

"I spoke to my lawyer. He said to go back in, that what they (New Edinburgh Centre) had done was wrong. So we broke back in (at about 6 a.m.) and started business again."

And why would Carter do that? Here is where it gets a bit complicated.

According to Green, Carter used a provision in his lease that stipulates his bakery operation be devoted to retail to try to shut him down. Green's been operating as a wholesale outfit ever since he took over the bakery four years ago.

He sells his goods to local coffee shops and other retail outlets.

He says he has done this with Carter's full knowledge. Moreover, to his knowledge, Green's predecessors also sold wholesale without any objection from New Edinburgh Centre.

The Citizen called New Edinburgh Centre on Friday in an attempt to reach Carter, but the office was closed for Good Friday.

However, it appears New Edinburgh Centre wants to sell its property on Beechwood Avenue and MacKay Street - basically, the area swept by fire - to Minto Developments. Bread and Roses Bakery and its next-door neighbour, Hamie's Diner, are the only two post-fire businesses still operating.

According to Green, the lease on Hamie's Diner expires early next year. Green's lease, though, doesn't expire until 2015, and then he has a renewal option for another five years. In other words, Green is the only thing standing in the way of New Edinburgh Centre selling its property for redevelopment.

"She (Carter) is trying to push everyone out, but I've become a problem because I have a long-term lease," says Green. "It's not because I haven't been paying my rent. It's always paid and update. She's looking for provisions to get rid of me, but she's always known since I took the business over in 2008 that I was wholesale. The only reason she's pinpointing 'wholesale' is because it's the clause (with which) she wants to try to evict me."

Green is particularly irked that, as it seems, Carter chose the Easter weekend to try to put him out of business.

"This is one of my busiest weekends of the year. I would have lost thousands of dollars if I wasn't able to open," he says, noting that Bread and Roses will be open Saturday and Monday.

Green says he expects to meet with Carter next week to discuss the situation.

"I don't want to stop redevelopment, but I have spent four years building up this business to the point where I'm really happy with it. I finally paid it off last year and I even started taking a salary. I'm not going to just up and leave."

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Edinburgh+baker+defies+property+owner+refuses+close+after+locks+changed/6423378/story.html#ixzz1rPg9F9mz

[Cre47]

Like, why is this news? Is it just to fuel the NIMBYS or Ken Gray. 10-unit will basically solve very very little the lineup for social housing. Hopefully there won't be whining about intensification there with this but Old St-Patrick is not really an area with vocal NIMBYISM which is a good thing... unless I'm wrong.



Affordable stacked townhouses proposed for Lowertown

By Neco Cockburn, The Ottawa Citizen April 10, 2012

OTTAWA — A 10-unit, $2.5-million social housing complex is planned for the site of an uninhabited duplex in Lowertown, and staff with the Ottawa Community Housing Corporation hope funding for the project comes through.

With approval from the housing agency’s board of directors, staff have submitted an application for funding that would help them to build the new stacked townhouses at 454-456 Old St. Patrick St., at Beausoleil Drive.

A duplex there now has “extensive” foundation problems and needs other maintenance, they say.

“The two units are currently not habitable, so we had to close it down, it was in such a state of disrepair,” said Jo-Anne Poirier, the chief executive for OCH. The duplex has been closed for a couple of years, she said.

“We simply didn’t have the funding to renovate it to the extent that it needed to, and it was deemed unsafe so we closed it down.”

The site was identified as an opportunity for redevelopment, said a staff report recently approved by the board, and an architect was hired last year to design a new building that could increase density on the property. The proposed complex would include four two-bedroom units, five three-bedroom units and one four-bedroom accessible unit.

“With the waiting list (for social housing) being what it is in the city, I think this would be helpful,” Poirier said.

OCH is applying for a grant of up to about $1.2 million from the city, the report says, and would pay for the remainder through mortgage debt and capital funding. The city’s housing services branch has issued a request-for-proposals for this year to develop up to 120 affordable rental units.

It’s part of an effort to knock down the number of households on the centralized waiting list, which stood at 9,977 in 2011, according to statistics presented by the Alliance to End Homelessness. That’s down from 10,502 in 2010.

Rideau-Vanier Councillor Mathieu Fleury, the councillor for the area and a member of the board of directors, pointed to the need for affordable housing in the city.

With Lowertown already having a large share of social services and social housing, a balance must be struck between introducing new units and taking advantage of opportunities to address people’s needs, Fleury said, adding that a smaller set of well-designed stacked units is less of an issue than a higher-density development.

Housing staff hope to get results of the grant application within a few weeks. If all goes as planned, the complex would be built by late this year or early next year, depending on when approval is received, Poirier said.

OCH has met with the head of the Lowertown Community Association and is to work with the association to ensure that the design of the proposed complex is consistent with the surrounding neighbourhood, she said.

A representative of the community association could not be reached for comment on Monday.

ncockburn@ottawacitizen.com

twitter.com/NecoCockburn
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

[kwoldtimer]

Like, why is this news? Is it just to fuel the NIMBYS or Ken Gray. 10-unit will basically solve very very little the lineup for social housing. Hopefully there won't be whining about intensification there with this but Old St-Patrick is not really an area with vocal NIMBYISM which is a good thing... unless I'm wrong.

Not sure why you're assuming that there might be a problem of some sort. The report seems pretty straightforward and factual (ie. "news") but doesn't really lead to the conclusion that there will be a problem. :shrug:

[S-Man]

You would think that, but a recent article in the EMC from about a month ago painted a much scarier picture, thanks to the local community association. Heritage being destroyed, and all that.

However, a falling down building that's beyond repair (that article cited the earthquake for pushing it past the point of no return) is 'heritage' only in that it's old.

[Cre47]

Not sure why you're assuming that there might be a problem of some sort. The report seems pretty straightforward and factual (ie. "news") but doesn't really lead to the conclusion that there will be a problem. :shrug:

Even if many of the storiesare neutral, I have the impression the Citizen seems to be posting stories about almost every intensification projects even minor ones. Certainly a much better entry then Gray's junk for sure.

[rocketphish]

Decrepit Rideau Street buildings slated for demolition

By David Reevely, The Ottawa Citizen April 17, 2012

The developer Richcraft owns this property on Rideau Street, just east of Charlotte Street. It’s reached a deal with the city that would see it demolish the building and put in a temporary park. Eventually, Richcraft intends to build a condo on the site.

OTTAWA - The city is poised to give Richcraft permission to tear down a clutch of tumbledown buildings on Rideau Street now that the two sides have agreed on a park to replace them, says a report due to be presented to city council’s planning committee.

The property at Rideau and Charlotte streets, near Rideau’s east end in Sandy Hill, is slated to eventually get a medium-height condo building, but the existing water and sewer pipes aren’t ready for it. The city’s planning to replace them starting next year, but for at least two years the buildings on the site - mostly houses converted into storefront shops and restaurants - have been decaying. Neighbours complain that they’ve been used as flophouses and that they’re fire hazards; the roof of one has caved in.

The situation is ugly, the report acknowledges: "The subject buildings are all in a state of advanced disrepair, and some structural degradation is evident. The environment created by the vacant buildings and isolated rear yards has become conducive to vandalism and delinquent activities. The Ottawa Police have enquired with staff as to potential for demolition and indicated the demolition of the buildings could improve the detrimental environment."

Richcraft said last fall that it wanted to tear the buildings down but couldn’t make a deal with the city on what the land would be used for until the company is ready to build there. The city objected to a fenced-off vacant lot (like another property Richcraft owns on the next block) but the company didn’t want to be responsible for any sort of little park, or for nearby residents to get used to a neighbourhood gathering-spot that wouldn’t last.

Now, according to the city report, the city and the developer have made a deal: Richcraft can tear down the buildings if it replaces them with a simple park with grass, benches, a pathway and a few trees. The city will lease the land for $1 a year and maintain it, charging Richcraft $10,000 a year until the company’s condo project is ready to go.

On the other hand, the report says, the land could be exempt from property taxes if it’s used as a park, and the taxes were $25,000 last year, of which $14,000 went to the city.

If the planning committee and city council agree, the park should be done by Oct. 15, the report says.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

From: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Decrepit+Rideau+Street+buildings+slated+demolition/6472626/story.html#ixzz1sJm0e8KC


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/6472627.bin?size=620x400s


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/6472631.bin?size=620x400s

[McC]

why does Richcraft always evict (or not replace) the tenants when they buy these places? it was the same on Bay Street, and it's the same on Parkdale. You'd think the property tax and insurance bills over the DECADES it takes them to get around to building on their sites would make it worth their while to find occupants, but...

[citizen j]

Block-busting?

[kevinbottawa]

Finally another proposal is on its way. They seem to have slowed down. This one falls within Brad J Lamb's proposed South on Bank (SoBa) district.

Condo tower on stilts proposed for site near Museum of Nature

Retired businessman McGarry says plan crucial for future of funeral home

By David Reevely, The Ottawa Citizen April 19, 2012 9:02 PM

OTTAWA — A stalwart of the Ottawa funeral business and a respected developer are working on plans for an “iconic” 25-storey condo tower that would stand on stilts near the Museum of Nature.

The project is aimed at revitalizing Hulse, Playfair and McGarry’s downtown funeral home, adding a public garden to O’Connor Street and bringing more residents downtown. The only big problem is that the project is directly at odds with a long-term plan for Centretown that’s on the verge of completion after years of work.

No formal application has yet been submitted, but representatives of Charlesfort, a builder specializing in downtown condos, made the rounds at City Hall this week to sound out councillors. The famous funeral parlour at O’Connor and McLeod streets would stay, moving its main parking area to a covered garage on its west side. The current parking lot, next to O’Connor, would hold the new tower. The stilts? They would push the base of the building up about two floors to allow a garden at ground level and to keep the funeral home from being hemmed in.

Brian McGarry retired as head of the family funeral home a few years ago, but kept control of the related company that owns the land occupied by the McGarry mortuaries. The project would let the funeral home expand, something he said was essential if the business was going to remain downtown.

“Lots of funeral homes have cut and run, and I’m not doing that,” McGarry said.

However, the company needs to make something off its property to reinvest in the business. (McGarry said he had recently been offered $16 million for the land, just to clear out and walk away.)

Enter Charlesfort. Its president, Doug Casey, was very reluctant to talk about the idea because he hadn’t yet had a chance to meet with all the politicians and said it would be discourteous to surprise them. In answer to questions, though, he said the current concept was to use 19,800 square feet of ground to hold 1,500 square feet of building and to fill the rest with a garden that would be open to the public from dawn to dusk.

“It’s a contemplative garden. You can go in and relax and look across to the (Museum of Nature) and enjoy the surroundings,” he said. The current thinking is that it would be Asian-inspired, Casey said, possibly featuring large bonsai-like plants. The tower, meanwhile, would be as light on the ground as it could be, with an entry styled to be reminiscent of a garden shed.

“It would be iconic. I’ve been talking to the planners and they say it wouldn’t just be unique to Ottawa,” he said. “They say it’s not something they’ve ever seen anywhere.” Casey had drawings, but didn’t want to share them because the plans were too preliminary.

Somerset Councillor Diane Holmes isn’t keen. The city is to formalize a detailed plan for Centretown’s long-term growth late this spring: a final draft of the Mid-Centretown Community Design Plan, as it’s called, has been public since December. It says O’Connor Street is generally right for seven-storey buildings.

“With the request from the developer to put in something that’s 25 storeys high, that will undermine the plan completely,” Holmes said. “This is seen as a mid-rise area. If in fact the city goes and approves something at 25 storeys, that’s over.”

Casey said the community plan had been written with almost no input from developers, to his frustration, and wasn’t in effect yet anyway. O’Connor Street’s an unpleasant place to walk, something the plan also identifies as a problem, and replacing a parking lot with a garden would soften it.

The Museum of Nature is planning a permanent parking lot on the next block: on land next to the historic building that the plan assumes will be a major park.

As for the height of the proposed project, Casey said the site was practically surrounded by commercial and institutional buildings. A nine-storey condo just to the south would lose some views to the north, but residents would lose them anyway with a seven-storey building on the McGarry site.

“Once you get up to that height, there’s no more sightlines to block,” he said. The more restricted the height, Casey said, the less attractive a design can usually be.

A shorter building wouldn’t produce the required financial return, McGarry said. That was something he had learned since he very vocally opposed the condo to the south nine years ago: “I do see what’s happening, as it should, in downtowns of cities all over the world. You can’t survive on a four-storey building. You just can’t.”

Nor, though, does McGarry want to sell to the highest bidder and walk away. “We’ve been here 87 years and I want something that’s going to last 87 years and more beyond that,” he said.

dreevely@ottawacitizen.com

ottawacitizen.com/greaterottawa

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

[S-Man]

Go figure, Diane Holmes doesn't like it. Views will be blocked and parking lots developed. And the height!
Diane hates height, loves parking and abhors anything different.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I'd like to see some more info like site plans, conceptual drawings, etc. before I pass judgement.

[Luker]

Regardless of preliminary renderings; it sounds great. I'm certainly in favour of the idea, funny Holmes brings her normal height rationalization but cannot proceed with her normal screeching on green-space due to the sight being converted into a (free{and maintained}) park. At-least she is finding it tougher and tougher to convince citizens and colleagues of her dribble about seven story height limits...

Even when I try to to be open or sympathetic to the thought, I can't! All I can think about is how it is DOWNTOWN, 1KMish to Parliament hill, .5km to CBD, and is on a road, which is a main one-way throughfare leaving the core of a metropolitan area of 1.4M for a 400 series highway approachment. She really needs to learn her how to be more pragmatic and efficient with her (and the peoples) time, energy, and resources. I mean Central I II III, Beaver Barrack, SOBA, Gotham, Cathrine greyhound Station Redev, The Merit, Soho Lisgar, Soho Italia, Galleria II, Bay st Richcraft, 1050 Somerset Claridge, all come to mind and are in the mid-center town area or right outside of it and are all (of course) going to be over 7 stories and rightfully so. Now this doesn't mean I agree with 1050 Somerset being 28fl, or a few of the others. Its just so hard to imagine she believes shes doing her job to the best of her abilities, all she does is send out the same fax screaming about height, shadows, wind, grass, and the babies ear drums who will be destroyed through construction etc...

Okay rant over..

Just wondering, how high are the odds she runs or gets re-elected again next term?

[kevinbottawa]

I think it's odd that Councillor Holmes opposed the SoBa proposal, that lined up with the CDP, stating the CDP wasn't officially approved yet, but is now referencing that same unapproved document in opposition to this new proposal.

[Luker]

Good point. More proof of her NIMBY stall & stare tactics, this dinosaur needs to go, even her own colleague are turning on her and starting to ignore her opinion/stances.

[ThaLoveDocta]

Regardless of preliminary renderings; it sounds great. I'm certainly in favour of the idea, funny Holmes brings her normal height rationalization but cannot proceed with her normal screeching on green-space due to the sight being converted into a (free{and maintained}) park. At-least she is finding it tougher and tougher to convince citizens and colleagues of her dribble about seven story height limits...

Even when I try to to be open or sympathetic to the thought, I can't! All I can think about is how it is DOWNTOWN, 1KMish to Parliament hill, .5km to CBD, and is on a road, which is a main one-way throughfare leaving the core of a metropolitan area of 1.4M for a 400 series highway approachment. She really needs to learn her how to be more pragmatic and efficient with her (and the peoples) time, energy, and resources. I mean Central I II III, Beaver Barrack, SOBA, Gotham, Cathrine greyhound Station Redev, The Merit, Soho Lisgar, Soho Italia, Galleria II, Bay st Richcraft, 1050 Somerset Claridge, all come to mind and are in the mid-center town area or right outside of it and are all (of course) going to be over 7 stories and rightfully so. Now this doesn't mean I agree with 1050 Somerset being 28fl, or a few of the others. Its just so hard to imagine she believes shes doing her job to the best of her abilities, all she does is send out the same fax screaming about height, shadows, wind, grass, and the babies ear drums who will be destroyed through construction etc...

Okay rant over..

Just wondering, how high are the odds she runs or gets re-elected again next term?

The more young condo owning "whipper snappers" move into these new-fangled sky towers, the lower her percentage of crotchety old supporters in her ward....

Perhaps she has realized this??

[McC]

The more young condo owning "whipper snappers" move into these new-fangled sky towers, the lower her percentage of crotchety old supporters in her ward....

Perhaps she has realized this??

don't worry, young people don't vote.

[m0nkyman]

I'll be somewhat consistent and say that I oppose this as it really does run counter to the mid centretown design plan. SOBA complied with it, and I support it, but plonking a 20 something tower at this location is basically taking the official plan, which many of us have spent the last couple of years debating and working on, and using it for toilet paper.

[S-Man]

don't worry, young people don't vote.

LOL, it's true.

Either way, she ain't protecting Stonehenge or the Pantheon. Those 4-7 storey brick rectangles from the 1950s are no gems and don't warrant keeping people out of the area.

And yes, her stance on SoBa was purely a reflex stall tactic.

The only reason she approved of Beaver Barracks is because she's Chair or CEO of the social housing provider that planned it. Subsidized, just like she is.

[Davis137]

Eventually I'd like to see the 30 storey threshold crossed more frequently. Not really at a location like this, but most of downtown and centertown looks like it's almost the same height from certain vantage points.

This proposal does sound a little different than others...

[rocketphish]

Decrepit Rideau Street buildings slated for demolition

By David Reevely, The Ottawa Citizen April 17, 2012

From: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Decrepit+Rideau+Street+buildings+slated+demolition/6472626/story.html#ixzz1sJm0e8KC


Planning committee backs demolition of vacant Rideau Street buildings

Time is running out for several vacant buildings on Rideau Street near Charlotte. The buildings are to come down for a temporary park on a spot where condos are to be built.

By David Reevely, The Ottawa Citizen April 24, 2012

OTTAWA - A group of vacant buildings on Rideau Street got a step closer to demolition Tuesday morning, with approval from city council’s planning committee to replace them with a temporary park.

They’re on a property at Rideau and Charlotte streets owned by Richcraft, which intends to build a mid-rise condo building, but not yet.

The tenants, mostly small restaurants and stores, are all gone and the buildings themselves are falling apart, but Richcraft and the city spent years discussing what could replace them until it’s time to build the condominium.

Tuesday, the planning committee agreed to a deal that’s to see Richcraft build a small corner park and pay the city to maintain it, in exchange for which the company will likely see its $14,000 or so in property taxes on the land forgiven — making the deal roughly a wash for both sides. The park will feature a sign warning that eventually the owner plans to develop the land.

Councillors on the committee approved the plan unanimously. If city council rubber-stamps it in turn, work is supposed to be done by Oct. 15.

From The Ottawa Citizen
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Planning+committee+backs+demolition+vacant+Rideau+Street+buildings/6509762/story.html#ixzz1syjx1p6g

[phil235]

Planning committee backs demolition of vacant Rideau Street buildings

Time is running out for several vacant buildings on Rideau Street near Charlotte. The buildings are to come down for a temporary park on a spot where condos are to be built.

By David Reevely, The Ottawa Citizen April 24, 2012

From The Ottawa Citizen
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Planning+committee+backs+demolition+vacant+Rideau+Street+buildings/6509762/story.html#ixzz1syjx1p6g

Is it too much to dream that this will set some kind of precedent?

[jchamoun79]

Planning committee backs demolition of vacant Rideau Street buildings

Those buildings can't come down soon enough. That whole corner is one of Ottawa's worst eyesores.

[McC]

Richcraft: our city's finest!

[kevinbottawa]

Planning chairman cool to idea of 25-storey O’Connor Street condo

By David Reevely, The Ottawa Citizen April 24, 2012

OTTAWA — An unusual elevated condominium proposed for O’Connor Street downtown is probably too tall to even merit serious consideration, says the chairman of city council’s planning committee.

“I can’t conceive of an argument that would say how a 25-storey building in an area designated for nine makes sense,” Hume said Tuesday. He’s open to hearing one, he said, but it’s going to have to be amazingly good.

The proposal is more an idea at this stage, with nothing formal filed with the city, but representatives of Charlesfort Developments and landowner Brian McGarry made the rounds of planning committee members last week. They’re trying to sell the idea of a tower built atop two-storey stilts, allowing a large garden with to be built on the ground floor. It would replace the large parking lot of a Hulse, Playfair and McGarry funeral home at O’Connor and McLeod; McGarry would use some of the proceeds to build a covered garage on the other side of the funeral home and expand the downtown building to fit more receptions and visitations.

But first, the city would need to sign off.

The land is now zoned for residential buildings that top out at four storeys. Under a community design plan the city hopes to formally approve in late spring, most of the O’Connor Street corridor would be changed to allow seven-storey buildings. An existing condo across the street from the McGarry site is already nine floors high, but under the plan nothing taller than that would be allowed between Catherine Street to the south and Cooper Street well to the north.

And, said Hume, that’s a significant problem. As the city’s designated big thinker on urban-planning problems, Hume’s invested a lot of political capital in community design plans as a way of channelling downtown intensification in a way existing residents can accept; the Centretown plan is the result of years of consultations and intense labour by expensive consultants. Which brings him back to the central question Hume has about the McGarry-Charlesfort idea: “How does what he’s proposing fit the community design plan?”

Last week, in an interview with the Citizen, Charlesfort president Doug Casey pointed out the Asian-influenced garden would add plants and a public amenity to the harsh environment of O’Connor Street, and also go some way toward replacing the parkland the nearby Museum of Nature intends to replace with a parking lot, both of which are problems for the Centretown plan.

dreevely@ottawacitizen.com

ottawacitizen.com/greaterottawa

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Planning+chairman+cool+idea+storey+Connor+Street+condo/6510994/story.html#ixzz1t0wgBXG3

[Uhuniau]

Is it too much to dream that this will set some kind of precedent?

That "TEMPORARY PARK" sign better be friggin' huge.

[citizen j]

That "TEMPORARY PARK" sign better be friggin' huge.

Wait for it. That sign could be made with fireworks and body parts and someone would still feign surprise ('shock'!!) when the time comes to develop the lot.

[MountainView]

That "TEMPORARY PARK" sign better be friggin' huge.

They might as well name the park "Temporary Park" - similar to what they did in Barrhaven before Kennevale was extended to Strandherd; there they had "Temporary Road".

[gjhall]

They might as well name the park "Temporary Park" - similar to what they did in Barrhaven before Kennevale was extended to Strandherd; there they had "Temporary Road".

Agreed. Naming it would give it too much standing in the minds of the lunatics that run Action Sandy Hill. Did anyone have the misfortune of reading last weekend's IMAGE? Apparently everything is terrible, who knew? Also, in breaking community news, university students drank on St. Patrick's Day.

[Chris-R]

Agreed. Naming it would give it too much standing in the minds of the lunatics that run Action Sandy Hill. Did anyone have the misfortune of reading last weekend's IMAGE? Apparently everything is terrible, who knew? Also, in breaking community news, university students drank on St. Patrick's Day.

RE: St. Partrick's

That's what I thought at first, then I saw what the students actually did on the occasion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X5jDKJwVwo) and I realized that ASH was right for one of the first times. Of course, obnoxiously loud parties was one of the reasons I left Sandy Hill in the first place, so I may be biased.

[Uhuniau]

They might as well name the park "Temporary Park" - similar to what they did in Barrhaven before Kennevale was extended to Strandherd; there they had "Temporary Road".

Sunny day, sweepin' the clouds away
On my way to find some 'up' to spark!
Can you tell me how to get
How to get to Temporary Park?
How to get to Temporary Park?

[citizen j]

Sunny day, sweepin' the clouds away
On my way to find some 'up' to spark!
Can you tell me how to get
How to get to Temporary Park?
How to get to Temporary Park?

You're a perverse genius.

[gjhall]

RE: St. Partrick's

That's what I thought at first, then I saw what the students actually did on the occasion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X5jDKJwVwo) and I realized that ASH was right for one of the first times. Of course, obnoxiously loud parties was one of the reasons I left Sandy Hill in the first place, so I may be biased.

Fair. But if the article was about just that, an unfortunate incident, that would be one thing. Instead it was a call to arms about a neighbourhood on the brink, which it certainly is not.

Further, Sandy Hill is priced based on the inconveniences that come with life in a mixed community of families, young professionals and many students. Without the UofO the neighbourhood could well be a much more expensive and out of reach enclave. On the other hand, it could have declined more severely in the last few decades and be a bit of a dump. It's hard to say.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by Chris-R
RE: St. Partrick's

That's what I thought at first, then I saw what the students actually did on the occasion and I realized that ASH was right for one of the first times. Of course, obnoxiously loud parties was one of the reasons I left Sandy Hill in the first place, so I may be biased.

Fair. But if the article was about just that, an unfortunate incident, that would be one thing. Instead it was a call to arms about a neighbourhood on the brink, which it certainly is not


These student ghettos are always potentially a problem and there will always be some partying.
Hopefully it never gets to the level of what happened this St Patty's Day at the Fanshawe College ghetto in London Ont. Or the infamous annual Aberdeen St. Party in Kingston that caused Queen's to discontinue their annual fall Homecoming weekend a couple of years ago. Sandy Hill is tame in comparison.
I wonder how many residents of SH make money renting to these partying students? Of course many of the landlords may be absentee ones who do not live in the area.

[Chris-R]

Fair. But if the article was about just that, an unfortunate incident, that would be one thing. Instead it was a call to arms about a neighbourhood on the brink, which it certainly is not.

Further, Sandy Hill is priced based on the inconveniences that come with life in a mixed community of families, young professionals and many students. Without the UofO the neighbourhood could well be a much more expensive and out of reach enclave. On the other hand, it could have declined more severely in the last few decades and be a bit of a dump. It's hard to say.

Fair enough as well. It's not really a dump, and many of the really student-soaked parts are pretty obvious and easy to avoid. When you walk down to where the shenanigans were on St. Patty's it's pretty clear that there are likely plenty of students there. The property values are, as you say, checkered and it's largely on that basis.

My problem in Sandy Hill was more a matter of picking the wrong building. It was a small one, but with no soundproofing (it was old) and six of the ten units having students, four of which were regularly loud. It's not different from Vanier in that respect. Everything can be peachy-keen on your street, but wind up in the wrong triplex or sixplex, and it could be miserable.

These student ghettos are always potentially a problem and there will always be some partying.
Hopefully it never gets to the level of what happened this St Patty's Day at the Fanshawe College ghetto in London Ont. Or the infamous annual Aberdeen St. Party in Kingston that caused Queen's to discontinue their annual fall Homecoming weekend a couple of years ago. Sandy Hill is tame in comparison.
I wonder how many residents of SH make money renting to these partying students? Of course many of the landlords may be absentee ones who do not live in the area.

It is definitely tame in comparison. Of course, if you're stuck in the middle of it with no desire to participate, comparisons wouldn't matter on the immediate. Nevertheless, fair enough. There are significantly worse examples elsewhere.

Between my wife and I, we've rented in Sandy Hill three times and only once was the landlord living in the neighbourhood. That's hardly a representative sample, however, and I do suspect that there are more than a few whose incomes are supplemented with rents.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Further to the Sandy Hill noise problems--there are those who want to make the landlords responsible rather than the tenants.

City proposes changes to noise bylaw


Jonathan McGill 1310 news Apr 17, 2012 07:19:58 AM

OTTAWA - The City is proposing changes to its noise bylaw which could see tenants and landlords slapped with a fine if the noise bylaw is broken. The Ottawa Citizen reports that under the current regulations, bylaw officers issue fines to individuals who they suspect are being noisy and not anyone else.

The city thinks making changes to the regulations could result in a quieter city, a more effective way of responding to complaints, and an easier way of keeping track of those who continuously break the noise bylaw.

The neighbourhood of Sandy Hill is responsible for thousands of noise complaints per year, and Coun. Mathieu Fleury whose ward incorporates Sandy Hill, said it is hard for bylaw officers to determine the exact individuals causing the noise violations. He added that issuing a fine to the landlord or leaseholder would make that person responsible for the whole group and could lessen the frequency of loud parties.

Moreover, the new changes would allow bylaw officers to respond to the party, determine if it violated the noise bylaw, and return the next day with the fine.

Fines for being noisy can range from $305 to $5000 and can be caused from loud music, ringing bells, blowing horns, to loud yelling which disturbs the neighbourhood.

A public meeting will be held on Apr. 24, from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. in council chambers at City Hall to determine if changes to the legislation will be made.

Personally I tell my younger neighbours--no loud parties, unless I am invited :cheers::

Sadly they never do, as old decrpit neighbours do not seem to fit in to their plans.
:shrug:

[gjhall]

Further to the Sandy Hill noise problems--there are those who want to make the landlords responsible rather than the tenants.

City proposes changes to noise bylaw



Personally I tell my younger neighbours--no loud parties, unless I am invited :cheers::

Sadly they never do, as old decrpit neighbours do not seem to fit in to their plans.
:shrug:

Ok, well, here's why this is unfair and won't work.

1) As the City won't tell violators who made the complaint, it is entirely possible that the quiet tenant in your building made the complaint, and if the City finds it difficult ON SITE to determine where the violation is coming form, how is the landlord to be able to do the next day? As such, the fine will be a new added cost that will either push up rents or be absorbed by the landlord. That hardly seems fair to anyone. Remember, many landlords are families and retired people who aren't making big profits on these properties. And fundamentally, what does the landlord have to do with the noise?

2) There is no provision in the Residential Tenancies Act to allow the landlord to evict the tenant or pass on the cost to the tenant, so much as I'm aware, so how is the landlord to correct the situation?

Update: Read the Citizen story the 1310 News piece cites, and it seems it would be only for landlords living in the building. I have an email into the Councillor for some explanation.

[S-Man]

Cue Diane Holmes, the Civic Hospital Community Association and the Preston Street Anti-BIA, there's a new tallest planned:

http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120501/OTT-little-italy-42-storey-building-plan-120501/20120501?hub=OttawaHome&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[AuxTown]

Cue Diane Holmes, the Civic Hospital Community Association and the Preston Street Anti-BIA, there's a new tallest planned:

http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120501/OTT-little-italy-42-storey-building-plan-120501/20120501?hub=OttawaHome&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Wow! Now that is an interesting proposal. That and SOHO Italia could be game-changers for our little city!

[harls]

What is being built on Riverside Dr just south of Hog's Back.. anyone know? Looks like some mid-rise condos.

[TransitZilla]

What is being built on Riverside Dr just south of Hog's Back.. anyone know? Looks like some mid-rise condos.

Expansion of St Pat's Home.

http://www.stpats.ca/NewBuilding/Publish/images/web/index.html

[amanfromnowhere]

Does anyone have an idea what's going up at Carling Ave and North side of Queensway? They are builing steel frame of 6 (at least) storey...

[Ottawan]

Does anyone have an idea what's going up at Carling Ave and North side of Queensway? They are builing steel frame of 6 (at least) storey...

Dymon self-storage, Carling location: http://www.dymonselfstorage.com/1554-carling-avenue-ottawa.html

The link says it is coming "Winter 2011", but it's not finished yet - I'm pretty sure that's what you are referring to.

[Proof Sheet]

Dymon self-storage, Carling location: http://www.dymonselfstorage.com/1554-carling-avenue-ottawa.html

The link says it is coming "Winter 2011", but it's not finished yet - I'm pretty sure that's what you are referring to.

Storage Wars Ottawa here we come..yuuuuupppppp

[Ottawan]

For the past year or so, there have been frequent prognostications about an apparently imminent economic downturn facing Ottawa. However, ever since the 2012 budget was released, with some detail of the extent of upcoming federal service cuts, I think we have actually seen an uptick in (ambitious) development proposals in this City.

Is Ottawa really heading for bad times, or just a transition period?

[McC]

For the past year or so, there have been frequent prognostications about an apparently imminent economic downturn facing Ottawa. However, ever since the 2012 budget was released, with some detail of the extent of upcoming federal service cuts, I think we have actually seen an uptick in (ambitious) development proposals in this City.

Is Ottawa really heading for bad times, or just a transition period?

In past downturns, new real estate construction has always overshot, and it is the worst indicator for what's to come (unless, perhaps, you can track the disparity between the forecast outlooks of developers' vs other sectors of the economy, and when it gets widest, get ready for a POP!).

The extent of the actual public sector layoffs won't really be known until later in the summer (it takes a while to select the actual surplus people, then to figure who can be accommodated into empty positions freed up by retirements or people leaving to do something else, etc., etc.). So I would expect that the impacts of the layoffs on the region's economy won't begin to manifest until later in the fall, or maybe not till next year.

In the meantime, past downturns suggest that new real estate construction and proposals will far overshoot the downward-adjusting demand, and if there is a serious downturn in our economy (or even a good hiccup -- a temporary blip before people transition to other lucrative opportunities like opening waffle stands, kayak adventures and gourmet cupcake shops*), I suspect that we'll likely be left with more than a few fenced-in vacant lots and holes in the ground with their happy-active-yuppy aspirational lifestyle photos fading slowly off of the "Coming Soon" signs, and maybe a few half-built skeletons left "on hold" for a few years.

All that said, it's important to bear in mind that Claridge is talking about the 2016-range for their big Somerset and Preston St proposals, and I haven't heard anything about them moving on their Barbarellas site in ages... so maybe they're factoring for 2-3 years of uncertainty and a return to business as usual after that. They could be right, and they'll make a fortune if they are; or they could be wrong, and be bankrupt in a couple of years. Either way, I'm glad to be happy in our home for the next 5 years.

*"value-added"!

[K-133]

In past downturns, new real estate construction has always overshot, and it is the worst indicator for what's to come (unless, perhaps, you can track the disparity between the forecast outlooks of developers' vs other sectors of the economy, and when it gets widest, get ready for a POP!).

The extent of the actual public sector layoffs won't really be known until later in the summer (it takes a while to select the actual surplus people, then to figure who can be accommodated into empty positions freed up by retirements or people leaving to do something else, etc., etc.). So I would expect that the impacts of the layoffs on the region's economy won't begin to manifest until later in the fall, or maybe not till next year.

In the meantime, past downturns suggest that new real estate construction and proposals will far overshoot the downward-adjusting demand, and if there is a serious downturn in our economy (or even a good hiccup -- a temporary blip before people transition to other lucrative opportunities like opening waffle stands, kayak adventures and gourmet cupcake shops*), I suspect that we'll likely be left with more than a few fenced-in vacant lots and holes in the ground with their happy-active-yuppy aspirational lifestyle photos fading slowly off of the "Coming Soon" signs, and maybe a few half-built skeletons left "on hold" for a few years.

All that said, it's important to bear in mind that Claridge is talking about the 2016-range for their big Somerset and Preston St proposals, and I haven't heard anything about them moving on their Barbarellas site in ages... so maybe they're factoring for 2-3 years of uncertainty and a return to business as usual after that. They could be right, and they'll make a fortune if they are; or they could be wrong, and be bankrupt in a couple of years. Either way, I'm glad to be happy in our home for the next 5 years.

*"value-added"!

you have some reasonable arguments. Do you have some data on past downturns and how they have impacted new developments in Ottawa?

[jaydog0212]

In past downturns, new real estate construction has always overshot, and it is the worst indicator for what's to come (unless, perhaps, you can track the disparity between the forecast outlooks of developers' vs other sectors of the economy, and when it gets widest, get ready for a POP!).

The extent of the actual public sector layoffs won't really be known until later in the summer (it takes a while to select the actual surplus people, then to figure who can be accommodated into empty positions freed up by retirements or people leaving to do something else, etc., etc.). So I would expect that the impacts of the layoffs on the region's economy won't begin to manifest until later in the fall, or maybe not till next year.

In the meantime, past downturns suggest that new real estate construction and proposals will far overshoot the downward-adjusting demand, and if there is a serious downturn in our economy (or even a good hiccup -- a temporary blip before people transition to other lucrative opportunities like opening waffle stands, kayak adventures and gourmet cupcake shops*), I suspect that we'll likely be left with more than a few fenced-in vacant lots and holes in the ground with their happy-active-yuppy aspirational lifestyle photos fading slowly off of the "Coming Soon" signs, and maybe a few half-built skeletons left "on hold" for a few years.

All that said, it's important to bear in mind that Claridge is talking about the 2016-range for their big Somerset and Preston St proposals, and I haven't heard anything about them moving on their Barbarellas site in ages... so maybe they're factoring for 2-3 years of uncertainty and a return to business as usual after that. They could be right, and they'll make a fortune if they are; or they could be wrong, and be bankrupt in a couple of years. Either way, I'm glad to be happy in our home for the next 5 years.

*"value-added"!

Do you think current projects uc now could be halted?

[McC]

Do you think current projects uc now could be halted?

I suppose that Tribeca Phase II and CP IV could get stopped if things go south in a hurry; but more likely to be impacted would be the Gloucester-Nepean towers, and any others of that sort, buildings that are approved but not yet started. Put another way, I'd be a little worried if I was invested in anything scheduled to start construction in 2013. I'm not predicting that things will get that bad, but I am arguing that real estate is a terrible predictor of whether things will get bad, and that if it does get bad, there will be a number of new construction projects that will get caught "not seeing it coming" when the bottom falls out. (and the idea that home building could "drive the economy" -- or likewise, that people leaving the public service to start selling boutique goods and services could do the same -- is economic mumbo jumbo)

[phil235]

The extent of the actual public sector layoffs won't really be known until later in the summer (it takes a while to select the actual surplus people, then to figure who can be accommodated into empty positions freed up by retirements or people leaving to do something else, etc., etc.). So I would expect that the impacts of the layoffs on the region's economy won't begin to manifest until later in the fall, or maybe not till next year.

In the meantime, past downturns suggest that new real estate construction and proposals will far overshoot the downward-adjusting demand, and if there is a serious downturn in our economy (or even a good hiccup -- a temporary blip before people transition to other lucrative opportunities like opening waffle stands, kayak adventures and gourmet cupcake shops*)
...
*"value-added"!

So are you saying it's not a good time to act on my dream of owning a waffle shop?

As for the impact of the cuts, I think that most of the impact of the uncertainty has already been felt in terms of purchasing decisions that have been put off by the thousands of people who weren't quite sure whether they would have jobs at the end of the year. The next impact will be further down the road, as even those cut will have periods of working notice followed by severance packages a year or more from now, and some of those people will be in a position to use the severance money for big purchases.

So I'd see a general downward trend in the local economy due to the magnitude of the cuts, but in the interim there might be some surprising impacts on purchases of new homes and other big ticket items.

[McC]

;-)
By all means, get out in front of the waffleshop trend (waffles are the new tacos!); but people shouldn't kid themselves that you'll be doing much for the macroecomic health of the region by selling low value-added consumables to those people who still have jobs.

[phil235]

;-)
By all means, get out in front of the waffleshop trend (waffles are the new tacos!); but people shouldn't kid themselves that you'll be doing much for the macroecomic health of the region by selling low value-added consumables to those people who still have jobs.

Perfect. I'll keep you in mind when I'm looking for investors.

You do make a good point on the maroeconomic impact of waffleshops and the like. My waffleshop will be purely for self-fulfilment purposes.

[McC]

you have some reasonable arguments. Do you have some data on past downturns and how they have impacted new developments in Ottawa?
Toronto's a better example, they've had more boom-bust cycles than we have. Calgary in the 1980s -- especially large office developments in their core -- is another good one

The market was completely different the last time Ottawa's economy went down the drain. IIRC, then it was subdivisions in the burbs that went unfinished, and downtown storefronts were boarded up, but we just didn't have this kind of large multi-year construction of high rises going on, so it's hard to compare. The impacts of an unfinished clump of townhouses interrupted by the builder going belly-up in a downturn is very different than an unfinished high rise interrupted by the same. With the latter, it takes so long to get from concept to completed condo, it's possible for the market conditions to change drastically and critically undermine the economics of the project after its already underway. And this can happen even if the building is already sold, just look at eco-coté on the canal, nothing to do with market conditions there, but if the builder goes under...

UPDATE: here's a story on someone who has tried to demonstrate a direct link between highrise construction and an impending crash (haven't read his research, not vouching for it) http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jan/11/skyscrapers-china-india-recession

[McC]

Perfect. I'll keep you in mind when I'm looking for investors.

You do make a good point on the maroeconomic impact of waffleshops and the like. My waffleshop will be purely for self-fulfilment purposes.

hopefully you'll also fulfill the sugar cravings of a few customers, too, or you'll get very fat and very poor very fast!!! ;-)

[jaydog0212]

So are you saying it's not a good time to act on my dream of owning a waffle shop?

As for the impact of the cuts, I think that most of the impact of the uncertainty has already been felt in terms of purchasing decisions that have been put off by the thousands of people who weren't quite sure whether they would have jobs at the end of the year. The next impact will be further down the road, as even those cut will have periods of working notice followed by severance packages a year or more from now, and some of those people will be in a position to use the severance money for big purchases.

So I'd see a general downward trend in the local economy due to the magnitude of the cuts, but in the interim there might be some surprising impacts on purchases of new homes and other big ticket items.

What do you mean by surprising impacts?

[phil235]

What do you mean by surprising impacts?

I think there might be an uptick in demand around the time that large groups of surplused public servants are receiving their severance packages.

[kwoldtimer]

I think there might be an uptick in demand around the time that large groups of surplused public servants are receiving their severance packages.

If they decide to stay in Ottawa. As I recall, the last time around (mid 90's, wasn't it?), downtown condo prices dropped about 15% and took about 5 years or more to get back up to where they had been

I don't have anything concrete, but I have the impression that the average time on the market for residential properties has been increasing for a number of months now - perhaps the start of a slow down and at least some weakening of prices in the coming year?

[KHOOLE]

So are you saying it's not a good time to act on my dream of owning a waffle shop?

As for the impact of the cuts, I think that most of the impact of the uncertainty has already been felt in terms of purchasing decisions that have been put off by the thousands of people who weren't quite sure whether they would have jobs at the end of the year. The next impact will be further down the road, as even those cut will have periods of working notice followed by severance packages a year or more from now, and some of those people will be in a position to use the severance money for big purchases.

So I'd see a general downward trend in the local economy due to the magnitude of the cuts, but in the interim there might be some surprising impacts on purchases of new homes and other big ticket items.

You are not factoring in the speculators who buy to flip over at 10% or more. Once the prices go stale or dip down, those guys won't be there and a you get a downward spiral: not pretty.

[phil235]

You are not factoring in the speculators who buy to flip over at 10% or more. Once the prices go stale or dip down, those guys won't be there and a you get a downward spiral: not pretty.

Do you think speculators represent a big part of the market at this stage? Anyone counting on big price increases now is definitely playing with fire.

[phil235]

If they decide to stay in Ottawa. As I recall, the last time around (mid 90's, wasn't it?), downtown condo prices dropped about 15% and took about 5 years or more to get back up to where they had been

I don't have anything concrete, but I have the impression that the average time on the market for residential properties has been increasing for a number of months now - perhaps the start of a slow down and at least some weakening of prices in the coming year?

I have the same impression on the market.

I do think the demographics are different this time around. A lot more of those impacted are going to be baby boomers, and they have shown a liking for downtown living. I think that group is close enough to retirement more likely to take a package and use it on a condo.

The condo market has also changed quite a bit. In the mid-late 90's, the sample size would have been pretty small, no? The drop could have been largely attributable to a freeze on hiring of the young graduates who made up most of the purchases at that time. Just speculating. No facts at all behind that.

I get the sense that Ottawa has been reasonably restrained in its condo-building relative to other bigger Canadian cities. That should help. Or maybe I'm just eager to stay positive in a situation that is negative in so may ways.

[McC]

I do think the demographics are different this time around. A lot more of those impacted are going to be baby boomers, and they have shown a liking for downtown living. I think that group is close enough to retirement more likely to take a package and use it on a condo.

But someone has to want to buy their old house, and someone else has to buy the old home of that buyer (someone who would normally likely be a first time buyer), etc. or the whole thing falls apart.

[jaydog0212]

But someone has to want to buy their old house, and someone else has to buy the old home of that buyer (someone who would normally likely be a first time buyer), etc. or the whole thing falls apart.

I can't see people who get let go say lets just leave we won't worry about our house etc.

[Dado]

We're talking about several thousand employees at the most. That's fewer than the number who have been hired during the Conservatives' tenure (frankly I think they should fire anyone with "Communications" in their job title and leave all the scientists and archivists in place, but I digress). It's about one year's worth of population growth, though that might now slacken off a bit. Also, since the Conservatives seem to be targeting some of the most able of the government's employees for layoffs, any employers out there in need of such people are going to love this city for the next few years.

Anyway, I very much doubt it will lead to a glut in the real estate market. At most it will cool it off a bit, and it's not like there aren't lots of people out there who can barely afford housing who wouldn't leap at the chance to buy a place for a bit less.

One of the biggest problem in real estate markets is the overvalued expectations of would-be sellers who seem to think they're entitled to the unrealized capital gains their houses would have had if they had sold at the top of the market. At a society-wide level, we could do with a good price cut on all housing.

[jaydog0212]

We're talking about several thousand employees at the most. That's fewer than the number who have been hired during the Conservatives' tenure (frankly I think they should fire anyone with "Communications" in their job title and leave all the scientists and archivists in place, but I digress). It's about one year's worth of population growth, though that might now slacken off a bit. Also, since the Conservatives seem to be targeting some of the most able of the government's employees for layoffs, any employers out there in need of such people are going to love this city for the next few years.

Anyway, I very much doubt it will lead to a glut in the real estate market. At most it will cool it off a bit, and it's not like there aren't lots of people out there who can barely afford housing who wouldn't leap at the chance to buy a place for a bit less.

One of the biggest problem in real estate markets is the overvalued expectations of would-be sellers who seem to think they're entitled to the unrealized capital gains their houses would have had if they had sold at the top of the market. At a society-wide level, we could do with a good price cut on all housing.

I think if costs went down that could help you could see more people able to buy houses etc.

[McC]

We're talking about several thousand employees at the most. That's fewer than the number who have been hired during the Conservatives' tenure...

but we're also likely to see little-to-no new hiring for the next two or three years as well. Let me explain (this will get wonky and detailed, skip the rest of this post if you don't care!):

The government recently froze departmental operating budgets while at the same time transferring responsibility for covering negotiated wage increases to departments (departments' annual reference levels used to be topped up by the amount of collectively-bargained salary increases). At the same time, the government has continued to negotiate collective bargaining agreements with its unions that include year-over-year cost of living adjustments (or "COLAs") on the order of about 1.5%/yr. On top of this, many or most employees also get "statutory merit increases," which are annual raises on the order of 2.5-4% within the salary band of their classification level (these are not promotions, but just raises for gaining another year's experience at a given classification level, they vary by job classification type and level, but there are generally 3-6 years worth of merit increases at any given level before an employee "maxes out")

So what does this mean? Departments must now find away to manage within a fixed budget to fund payroll increases of between 1.5-5.5% (some employees have maxed out their salary within their classification level and receive only cost of living increases, while others will receive both COLAs and the "merit" increases). Effectively, if nothing changes, this will produce a hiring freeze and perhaps even ongoing contraction of the government workforce, since most of the savings a department will make from the government's average 4% attrition rate must go to pay the increased salaries of the department's remaining employees. (there is some allowance since many of the people leaving will be at the top of the payroll and new employees generally cost less, but senior positions need to be filled, so there will be promotions, and the effect is still little-to-no-growth overall, if not contraction)

If the region's largest employer (by far) stops hiring, that will greatly reduce demand for new people (and, therefore, for new first time homebuyers) to move to Ottawa, or to stay in Ottawa after finishing school/training -- especially when we consider that a good portion of non-government employment in this town involves providing goods and services to government and/or government employees.

As a result, I think we could see a fairly sharp drop in Ottawa's population growth rates. If the population growth drops, where does demand for new housing come from? If you don't have new home buyers, how do existing home buyers trade up the property ladder? If you don't have existing homeowners trading up to larger family homes, how do new empty nest boomers sell to downsize to a nice new condo? That's when you get a bubble bursting and a serious downturn in the housing market, not just a "correction" in prices. A correction that I agree with Dado is much needed given the

overvalued expectations of would-be sellers who seem to think they're entitled to the unrealized capital gains their houses would have had if they had sold at the top of the market. At a society-wide level, we could do with a good price cut on all housing. Those kinds of "soft landings" in housing markets are very very rare!

[jaydog0212]

McC
Part of the issue is in the east where ever you go things are not much better while we not may see tons of new people Ontario i think we could see a big population drop.

[McC]

McC
Part of the issue is in the east where ever you go things are not much better while we not may see tons of new people Ontario i think we could see a big population drop.

part of what issue? I'm talking about the economy, and specifically as it relates to new real estate development, in the Ottawa area.

[jaydog0212]

part of what issue? I'm talking about the economy, and specifically as it relates to new real estate development, in the Ottawa area.

What i am saying is in Ontario/Quebec things are really not much better in terms of jobs sure some may go west but i don't think your going to see massive amount go west short term long term is more of a concern.

[amanfromnowhere]

Not sure if we have something for this guy:

http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__85YJQP

In order to accommodate the proposed development of an 18-storey high-rise apartment building on the site, a Zoning By-law Amendment has been requested...

Elevations, Site Plan and Floor Plans PDF (http://webcast.ottawa.ca/plan/All_Image%20Referencing_Zoning%20Bylaw%20Amendment%20Application_Image%20Reference_D02-02-12-0035%20Elevations%2C%20Site%20Plan%20and%20Floor%20Plans.PDF)

[McC]

Not sure if we have something for this guy:


I don't think that we do...? first I've heard of it anyway...! For reference, it's the Parking Lot at the corner of Cartier (above St Theresa's RC Church) a block south of City Hall if anyone's wondering. My one comment on the elevations: wow Roderick Lahey is one bloody boring architect, could his buildings look any less alike? same lines, same materials, only thing that varies is the shape/profile; good grief! But whatever, since it's Richcraft, there's probably not much worry that it will actually get built before the sun runs out of fuel.

[Uhuniau]

Cue Diane Holmes, the Civic Hospital Community Association and the Preston Street Anti-BIA, there's a new tallest planned:

http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120501/OTT-little-italy-42-storey-building-plan-120501/20120501?hub=OttawaHome&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

You forgot Ken Gray! For the love of god, won't someone think of Ken Gray?

[S-Man]

He thinks about himself enough as it is.

[citizen j]

You forgot Ken Gray! For the love of god, won't someone think of Ken Gray?

Someone forgot about Ken? Don't you know who he thinks he IS?

[S-Man]

You mean, 'Saviour of Democracy' and 'Urban Planner Extraordinaire'?

[jchamoun79]

You mean, 'Saviour of Democracy' and 'Urban Planner Extraordinaire'?

And let's not forget 'Legal Expert on the Rule of Law'.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I've always found it amusing how everyone becomes an expert on the rule of law or the Constitution when they permit something someone doesn't like.

[Dr.Z]

Do you think speculators represent a big part of the market at this stage? Anyone counting on big price increases now is definitely playing with fire.

The estimate is condo investors represent less than 20% of the market. The fed job cuts will supress price increase % relative to previous years; price will still go up but not by as much as in recent years. What happens to the interest rate will also be key.

There continues to be healthy abosorption of condo units in Ottawa.

[waterloowarrior]

Parking lot at NW corner of Pamilla and Rochester sold
http://www.juteaujohnsoncomba.com/ms_february2012.htm
514-532 Rochester Street represents the last significant land transaction. The property was acquired by Rochester Property Holdings Ltd. and Rochester Holdings LP from Private Individuals for a registered price of $2,000,000 or $123/sf. Quintin Colaiacovo and Nico Zentil of CB Richard Ellis were the agents involved with this transaction

[rakerman]

The Kavanaugh by Domicile in Beechwood. 4 and 10 storeys, 130 units. Completely non-smoking building.

http://thekavanaugh.ca/

[rocketphish]

The Kavanaugh by Domicile in Beechwood. 4 and 10 storeys, 130 units. Completely non-smoking building.

http://thekavanaugh.ca/

Yup, that would be this thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=197207

[Dado]

:previous:

I don't know if this signifies anything, but the old TD CanadaTrust branch in Westboro at Richmond and Churchill is draped in signs for the Kavanaugh right now. Perhaps Domicile has bought the property...?

[c_speed3108]

:previous:

I don't know if this signifies anything, but the old TD CanadaTrust branch in Westboro at Richmond and Churchill is draped in signs for the Kavanaugh right now. Perhaps Domicile has bought the property...?

Domicile does own that property. It is about to become a new restaurant owned by Stephen Beckta (who owns Play Food and Wine in the market, and Beckta Dining and Wine on Nepean Street).

He has signed a 10 year lease with 2 five years options. I imagine Domicile is not planning to build there for a while.

http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2012/05/14/breaking-news-beckta-reveals-new-and-latest-location-gezillig-in-westboro/

[rakerman]

I wasn't aware "refined, elegant lifestyle" meant "you can live in a big-box mall strip"

http://claridgecondos.com/stirlingpark/

That being said, replacing mall parking lots or empty mall-adjacent lots with condos is good. Kind of unfortunate to be dropping people into an area never meant for walkability - but it's the only way to retrofit the places back to livability.

[Davis137]

Distillery lofts at Walkley and the O-Train Corridor is currently upto it's 3rd level of construction, and moving on to the 4th. This thing is going to be 10 floors, which is interesting, as it appears to be made mostly of cinderblock walls reinforced with rebar, and some carrier beams on the inside of the structure. It will be interesting to see what the exterior finishes will be like...and if they will actually spend the money on bricks for it from top to bottom to give it that wharehouse look. IIRC, there is also supposed to be other structures going on this segment of land (a hotel, a restaurant, etc).

This, with the new Shoppers, the new Swiss Chalet, and other stuff happening on Bank Street is really starting to give Ottawa South the facelift it needs to bring it out of the 1970's...

[TransitZilla]

Distillery lofts at Walkley and the O-Train Corridor is currently upto it's 3rd level of construction, and moving on to the 4th. This thing is going to be 10 floors, which is interesting, as it appears to be made mostly of cinderblock walls reinforced with rebar, and some carrier beams on the inside of the structure. It will be interesting to see what the exterior finishes will be like...and if they will actually spend the money on bricks for it from top to bottom to give it that wharehouse look. IIRC, there is also supposed to be other structures going on this segment of land (a hotel, a restaurant, etc).

This, with the new Shoppers, the new Swiss Chalet, and other stuff happening on Bank Street is really starting to give Ottawa South the facelift it needs to bring it out of the 1970's...

The building that is currently going up is actually the hotel (a Marriott Residence Inn). The condo buildings will be in behind it.

It will be exciting to see what happens in this area when Bank St gets rebuilt with better landscaping & bike lanes.

[rakerman]

It looks like James Street Feed Co. and at least one or two buildings south of it will become a new Urban Capital condo: "South Central" (wouldn't have been my choice for a name).

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8161/7344609682_1ea2687660.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rakerman/7344609682/)
IMG_1634 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rakerman/7344609682/) by rakerman (http://www.flickr.com/people/rakerman/), on Flickr

South Central is, incidentally, north of Central (condos), by two blocks.

[rakerman]

South of err "South Central"

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Five+storey+condo+planned+vacant+Bank+Flora/6714637/story.html

"Plans for a new proposed building presented by architect Brian Clark include a top storey set back two metres from the bottom four storeys, above decorative mouldings, with the idea of using the space as a terrace for the residential units on the fifth floor.

Other mouldings are used to separate the retail ground-floor level from the residential portion above, a city staff report says. On the ground floor along Bank Street, pilasters separate the entrance in the centre from storefront windows on either side."

[OttawaSteve]

It looks like James Street Feed Co. and at least one or two buildings south of it will become a new Urban Capital condo: "South Central" (wouldn't have been my choice for a name).


There's a second one of these banners on (I think) the paint store at Bank and Flora. Are these two sites actually slated for re-development by Urban Capital, or could these banners just be advertisements for Central?

[gjhall]

There's a second one of these banners on (I think) the paint store at Bank and Flora. Are these two sites actually slated for re-development by Urban Capital, or could these banners just be advertisements for Central?

There was a rezoning application (can't remember if it went to pass or not) for the James St site years ago...