General Update/Rumour thread

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I'm considering buying a small condo in a few years either here or in Montreal. I'm an urbanite, and I don't have a lot of stuff and I don't need a lot of space. A condo makes sense for someone like me who's trying to get established in life and is not ready to settle down yet.

[waterloowarrior]

An interesting tidbit from this article

Dealing with development pressure in Mechanicsville
by David Reevely, The Ottawa Citizen August 11, 2012

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Dealing+with+development+pressure+Mechanicsville/7072253/story.html#ixzz23M0egua6

To the west, the federal government is deciding what to do with Tunney’s Pasture; Hobbs has a briefing due from federal public-works officials in the next few weeks. She doesn’t know what they’re going to tell her but rumour is the plans include condos on the west side of Parkdale and more office space inside the complex.

[Postmaster]

But that raises the question: Who will buy the large suburban homes of the babyboomers?

I recently talked with some friends about how the definition of success was changing. Twenty or 30 years ago, success meant buying a large suburban home, with a double-garage and all the fixings. Today, success is starting to be defined by many people as having a modest home in an urban setting, where you can walk to all the shops that you need, with easy access to good transit and, ideally, bike lanes.

My wife and I, even though me have a baby daughter, have discussed moving downtown. (Our condo, which is relatively small for the suburbs, should be easier to sell than our bigger neighbours). The search for a modest downtown home made me wonder who will move into the suburbs, and what happens if all the downsizing babyboomers can't sell their homes. I don't think this will happen but it is an interesting thought experiment.

They will have to take less for their homes. This should help drive down house prices a bit. I know my parents are planning to move into a smaller home albeit not away from the suburbs. These big houses are just too much space when there aren't kids there.

[umbria27]

But that raises the question: Who will buy the large suburban homes of the babyboomers?

I recently talked with some friends about how the definition of success was changing. Twenty or 30 years ago, success meant buying a large suburban home, with a double-garage and all the fixings. Today, success is starting to be defined by many people as having a modest home in an urban setting, where you can walk to all the shops that you need, with easy access to good transit and, ideally, bike lanes.

My wife and I, even though me have a baby daughter, have discussed moving downtown. (Our condo, which is relatively small for the suburbs, should be easier to sell than our bigger neighbours). The search for a modest downtown home made me wonder who will move into the suburbs, and what happens if all the downsizing babyboomers can't sell their homes. I don't think this will happen but it is an interesting thought experiment.

Though I wish they were, I think the perspectives of your friends may not be typical. They seem typical because you hang out with like minded people, but it seems that lots of people are still buying into the suburban dream. I live most of my life east of Woodroofe and west of Saint Laurent, so I'm shocked when I drive out of the city and see how the suburbs have spread.

I worry that we're not building enough variety downtown. There are plenty of one bedroom condos, but as you are probably finding, those modest family homes are difficult to come by. A three bedroom apartment is even more rare.

For what it's worth, I would encourage you to move downtown with your children. As kids get older and they are involved in more and more activities, suburban parents end up spending all their time in a car. My kids have walked and biked to school, sports, social activities and now part-time jobs for ten years now. That's a lot of traffic I've avoided.

[Acajack]

I don't think the suburban lifestyle is going to "die out" any time soon, or that that housing market is going to suffer a serious decline. At least in Ottawa, most single family detached homes even in car-dependent places like Orleans, Kanata and Barrhaven are serviceable via reasonably decent transit (I am thinking of potentially skyrocketing gas prices here.) So a lot of people are still going to be in the market for these types of houses.

Walkability is a growing in perceived value but it is not important to everyone. And it depends what you have to trade off for it.

The logic for someone goes like this:
OK, I want a walkable neighbourhood ideally, but I also want a backyard for a pool for the kids... The burbs aren't necessarily walkable but on the other hand I can still take transit from work so that offsets the high price of gas... Plus I can have that backyard pool. And so on and so on.

If anything, we will probably end up with a more balanced housing market. For much of the post-WW2 era, inner city housing (especially the denser forms) didn't get much love from the middle class in particular.

As I said, we are simply moving to a more balanced situation, but I don't think the suburban singles will see a large-scale abandonment like some urban districts did, simply because they are still perceived as being very attractive by many, many people. Like it or not.

[McC]

very large suburban homes (with lots of bedrooms, bathrooms and parking) will also remain highly desirable for multi-generational families. Ottawa hasn't been a primary destination for first and second generation families from the parts (e.g., of South Asia and Latin America) where these are more common, but that could change, or the practice could become more widespread across demographics -- it's really just a short step from boomeranging back to Mom and Dad's temporarily or setting up a granny suite in the basement or attic.

[S-Man]

Funny you should mention that, McC, because I was about to add that the multi-generational thing is growing and is quite prominent in some parts of the suburbs, but especially south Barrhaven. There you will find a large number of new Asian families "living the dream" of single-detached new home ownership.

Many people I've come across have commented on it in one way or another. Chapman Mills and Barrhaven South (Half Moon Bay) is where the building is occurring and that's where you'll find many Asian families - kids and elderly included - buying into the neighbourhood.

[J.OT13]

Bit of a shake up for downtown office space.

WEP loses tenants and 150 Elgin secures another 37,500 sqft.

http://www.obj.ca/Opinion/2012-08-13/article-3051331/Downtown-Ottawa-goes-on-sale/1

[McC]

Thanks for the link. That first paragraph suggests that we won't likely see any action on the Place de Ville III or Standard Life III sites any time soon... unless they switch models from office to rez like Broccolini is doing on Slater.

[J.OT13]

Thanks for the link. That first paragraph suggests that we won't likely see any action on the Place de Ville III or Standard Life III sites any time soon... unless they switch models from office to rez like Broccolini is doing on Slater.

That’s too bad. I was hoping Place de Ville's podium building redevelopment was going to occur before the completion of the rail tunnel since it included improved connections (and likely complete overhaul) of the complexe's underground concourse. Seems building it after the opening of the subway would create a lot of disturbance around the north entry point.

Here is a link to the application and design brief. Note the link between tower C and the new tower D. They will build new escalators to replace the narrow and dingy random entrances around phase II (see north west and north east corner of tower C as well as the centre west elevation of the Podium to witness the outdated old portals);.


http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7TBR2F

http://webcast.ottawa.ca/plan/All_Image%20Referencing_Site%20Plan%20Application_Image%20Reference_Design%20Brief%20D07-12-09-0212.PDF

[McC]

yeah, I was expecting the Podium replacement to happen sooner, because I'd heard that Transport Canada had expressed interest in the entire new tower, but that was before the Deficit Reduction Action! Plan, so the need may no longer be as pressing. In fact, I had completely forgotten about it as a pending office tower when I was thinking of examples for my last post.

[J.OT13]

yeah, I was expecting the Podium replacement to happen sooner, because I'd heard that Transport Canada had expressed interest in the entire new tower, but that was before the Deficit Reduction Action! Plan, so the need may no longer be as pressing. In fact, I had completely forgotten about it as a pending office tower when I was thinking of examples for my last post.

Transport Canada wanted to move to the new tower? Wouldn't that be a huge cut in office space (tower C; 535,000, tower D; 350,000ish)?

[McC]

I don't think it would have been a move, more of a consolidation from other offices that TC also occupies (e.g., a good chunk of Tower B and space in several other smaller buildings on Slater, Cooper, etc.) and maybe also to make swing space because I think (at least some of) Tower C is due for a refit.

[J.OT13]

I don't think it would have been a move, more of a consolidation from other offices that TC also occupies (e.g., a good chunk of Tower B and space in several other smaller buildings on Slater, Cooper, etc.) and maybe also to make swing space because I think (at least some of) Tower C is due for a refit.

Now that makes way more sense. Although their rent might be higher, it would be way more efficient to have everyone on one sight as opposed to spread out around the city. And since the feds seem to have gravitated toward the consolidation of departments in one, or in the case of the DND, fewer office buildings in recent years (new EDC, DND to Nortel campus, CSIS on Ogilvy, possible Boarder Services building on St-Laurent), it might still be possible.

From a Brookfield perspective, the Podium is not very efficient considering the big empty theatre. And if they do need to refit tower C, this would work well.

And from a downtown point of view, maybe emptying ugly old office buildings, it might open up future opportunities.

We should also remember that l'Esplanade Laurier (840,000+ sqft) will close for renovations once Lorne 2.0 (650,000sqft) opens. That leaves about 190,000 in missing swing space. We have some random space spread out across downtown, but the biggest possibilities are already (or soon to be) spoken for, i.e. the Plaza (former EDC) will likely act as swing space for the Bank of Canada (although it would have been pretty easy for them to move into a new PdV building across the street) and 150 Elgin will likely fill up with private sector companies (close to 120,000 sqft already rented out).


For now, tower D might not be so far fetched. Like the Rideau Centre speculaion, maybe an annoucement will come later this year.

[McC]

the Plaza (former EDC) will likely act as swing space for the Bank of Canada.
oh yeah? don't think I knew about that tidbit, thanks!

UPDATE: Ha, I guess I got distracted and didn't actually read to the bottom of the article, it was right there in the last paragraph!

[Ottawan]

Transport Canada wanted to move to the new tower? Wouldn't that be a huge cut in office space (tower C; 535,000, tower D; 350,000ish)?

This is not even a rumour, but personal speculation: I've long thought that a Transport Canada consolidation would work really well for the new tallest office tower complex proposed for the triangle above City Centre at Bayview. The developer seems set on building it as a package for a single (or very few) tenant(s), and Transport Canada seems logical.

My other thought is that it might be used to relocate current Tunney's Pasture tenants (either Health or Stats) while that complex is completely revamped.

Regarding the Place de Ville podium development, the OBJ article mentioned above notes that the Department of Justice is looking for 80,000 square feet. Their headquarters are located on that same block, so this would be an exceedingly convenient spot for them to expand. At nearly a third of the leasable space in the new tower, that might be enough for them to move to build the tower with the rest on spec.

[J.OT13]

This is not even a rumour, but personal speculation: I've long thought that a Transport Canada consolidation would work really well for the new tallest office tower complex proposed for the triangle above City Centre at Bayview. The developer seems set on building it as a package for a single (or very few) tenant(s), and Transport Canada seems logical.

My other thought is that it might be used to relocate current Tunney's Pasture tenants (either Health or Stats) while that complex is completely revamped.

Regarding the Place de Ville podium development, the OBJ article mentioned above notes that the Department of Justice is looking for 80,000 square feet. Their headquarters are located on that same block, so this would be an exceedingly convenient spot for them to expand. At nearly a third of the leasable space in the new tower, that might be enough for them to move to build the tower with the rest on spec.

Personally, I would prefer seeing Tunney's offices move to Bayview as opposed to Transport Canada. A lot of these Tunney's buildings are complete tear me downs, so the Bayview towers would be a permanent solution.

As for PdV tower D; I totally agree it would work great as swing space for the Department of Justice, and Transport Canada while fixing up tower C (and since the tower would eventually be fully leased by TC, they wouldn't have to move back to PdV C, saving cash and trouble). And once all the other buildings are fixed up, then Transport Canada could consolidate their offices in PdV C and D. And by that time, there might be enough demand to tear down the older buildings occupied by TC on Slater, Cooper and wherever else.

[MaxHeadroom]

After years of neglect, the derelict remains of a gas station at the northwest corner of Bank and Rideau has a construction fence around it and a MacEwen sign saying it's under construction.

[Davis137]

I like MacEwen and W.O. Stinson and Sons. They are both independant petroleum companies, and were both established in Eastern Ontario (MacEwen is based out of Maxville, and Stinson and Sons is Ottawa/Kemptville). I find they have cheaper fuel than the big guys, and try to support them when I can. As well as Drummonds, who is also cheaper than the conglomerates more often than not.

[J.OT13]

Oh, that Rideau; I had to think about it for a sec. I don't think I've ever been down there.

And McEwen does seem to have slightly cheaper prices than the big boys, and so I gas up at their stations 90% of the time. I also like that they have the option of ethanol (although likely damn close to the concentration in regular gas).

[S-Man]

MacEwens has always been close to a cent cheaper than the big boys. And yes, I had to think about the locale for a bit too. That area used to be in the middle of nowhere, but now Findlay Creek is expanding not far from there.

God forbid if I lived in Findlay Creek!

I had to say it. There is one bus route that trundles through there and drops people off at Greenboro Transitway/O-Train station. Like the 199 or something. Anyway, back in the spring when my car was in the shop seemingly forever, I took the O-Train and transfered to a Hunt Club bus at Greenboro. I was always met with anxious questions as to whether that bus had come already or not.

No wonder they're widening Bank to 4 lanes. And the O-Train can't be extended to Leitrim fast enough for a lot of them,I'm sure.

[J.OT13]

Ottawa River Parkway to be renamed after Sir John A. Macdonald: Le Droit


http://www.openfile.ca/ottawa/blog/2012/ottawa-river-parkway-be-renamed-after-sir-john-macdonald-le-droit

There's a big announcement taking place this morning on the Ottawa River Parkway near the Deschênes Rapids, featuring foreign affairs minister John Baird and outgoing National Capital Commission CEO Marie Lemay. And French-language publication Le Droit says it's to rechristen the parkway in honour Canada's first prime minister, John A. Macdonald:


La promenade de l'Outaouais doit être renommée «promenade Sir-John-A.-Macdonald» ce matin, du nom du premier chef de gouvernement du pays, père de la Confédération et icône du conservatisme canadien, a-t-on appris hier.

Which is great, because it's been a whole eight months since an Ottawa landmark was renamed after the man who oversaw the birth of the nation. Macdonald's name also festoons the Ottawa airport, a bridge to Gatineau, and perhaps most appropriately, an Elgin Street pub. Somewhere, R.B. Bennett and Charles Tupper are grumbling about raw deals and whatnot.

Then again, Americans have proven decidedly more likely to name public spaces after their first president, George Washington, so maybe we should be playing catch-up. In any case, this morning's press conference is scheduled to get underway at 11 a.m. When the official news comes down, we'll pass it along.

[S-Man]

I think it's fitting, as it's a prominent road, first and foremost. Secondly, it terminates pretty close to Parliament Hill. And thirdly, that bridge and airport have two names in their titles. May as well name something after a single person. MacDonald and Cartier weren't husband and husband, after all.

And a single pub doesn't cut it, though in the spirit of the city's most famous alcoholic it certainly is fitting.

[rocketphish]

I think it's fitting, as it's a prominent road, first and foremost. Secondly, it terminates pretty close to Parliament Hill. And thirdly, that bridge and airport have two names in their titles. May as well name something after a single person. MacDonald and Cartier weren't husband and husband, after all.

And a single pub doesn't cut it, though in the spirit of the city's most famous alcoholic it certainly is fitting.

What concerns me though, is that the NCC is going to consider this a major accomplishment of theirs, instead of actually doing something useful for our city, like opening up our shorelines to vibrant public and private usages, or getting out of the way of private development and bridge-building.

[J.OT13]

It's ironic that a guy who joined the country with his railway has his name on three things that represent the end of the dominance of railroads and train travel; a highway bridge, an airport and a parkway built when the central city was stripped of all forms of rail.

[J.OT13]

Baird reminds city of fed’s LRT commitment

John Baird doesn’t want City Hall to forget the feds are shelling out big money for the first phase of LRT in Ottawa.

Asked Wednesday if he can see LRT trains zip down the newly renamed Sir John A. Macdonald Pkwy. (formally Ottawa River Pkwy.), Baird instead reminded reporters of the $600-million contribution to the $2.1-billion line planned between Tunney’s Pasture and Blair station.

“The city has a desire obviously to build a world-class public transit system. They have a desire to do it in the most inexpensive way possible. We’re providing an unprecedented financial commitment to the city, the biggest funding for any city project in the history of Canada. Three times higher than the second-biggest grant, which was $200 million,” Baird said.

“The city has an important responsibility in transit. The National Capital Commission has a very important responsibility to protect the greenbelt and protect our green space and land that is of national significance. They are working with the city to allow that work to go forward.”

Baird is responsible for the NCC.

Asked if he would step in to make a decision, Baird said: “We have the NCC to make these decisions and obviously at the end of the day I’m certainly the one that’s accountable to taxpayers for any decisions that the commission makes.”

The city has identified the NCC-owned parkway as the cheapest option to eventually extend LRT past Tunney’s Pasture to Baseline station. The most recent estimate is $562 million to use the parkway.

There are 15 different corridors being considered in an environmental assessment, which is scheduled to wrap up in mid-2013.

More costly options are along Richmond Rd. with a range of $835 million to $2.3 billion, and Carling Ave, with a range of $1.9 billion and $2.2 billion.

The NCC is reluctant to let the city use the parkway for LRT, a sentiment repeated Wednesday by CEO Marie Lemay.

Lemay -- who is leaving the NCC to become the associate deputy minister of infrastructure -- said the NCC is happy the city is keeping Carling Ave. in the mix.

Meanwhile, one city councillor is pointing out the “ironic symbolism” of naming the parkway after the first prime minister of Canada.

Cumberland Coun. Stephen Blais said Macdonald extended rail west to unite Canada, and “like Sir John A.’s goal for the country, it’s our goal for the city.”

jon.willing@sunmedia.ca

Twitter: @JonathanWilling


http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/08/15/baird-reminds-city-of-feds-lrt-commitment

He claims 600 million is the largest federal grant for transit in history. Can anyone confirm that?

[citizen j]

I'm wondering how long it will take before we're calling it the Sir JAM Parkway? First bad rush-hour delay?

[Admiral Nelson]

I'm wondering how long it will take before we're calling it the Sir JAM Parkway? First bad rush-hour delay?

Hah, that's good. For its part, CBC Radio was suggesting "S-JAM Parkway", like FDR Drive in NYC. I'll pay attention to what Dave Brown says tomorrow morning on traffic.

Overall I'm fairly ambivalent about the change. I don't mind a more creative name than Ottawa River Parkway, but Sir John A has been done to death in this city, especially given the airport.

[adam-machiavelli]

I don't get it. Why would you want to name a road after a raging alcoholic who hated Chinese people with a passion and didn't mind using corrupt business practices to build railroads?

[Ottawan]

I don't get it. Why would you want to name a road after a raging alcoholic who hated Chinese people with a passion and didn't mind using corrupt business practices to build railroads?

That's a very one-sided view of history. Sir John A was an alcoholic, but he did not have a hatred of Chinese people, just indifference to them. Yes he enacted the racist & abhorrent head tax, but that was a purely political move in keeping with the times, not a core policy. The Pacific scandal did occur, but Macdonald's role in it is not a defining moment for him. Voters in the 1800s agreed by re-electing him with four subsequent majorities.

Personally I think this is a great commemoration that was much-needed. Every other major commemoration of Macdonald in Ottawa is Macdonald-Cartier. While their partnership was important to this country and should be noted as such, they each accomplished much on their own. In particular, Macdonald would be Prime Minister for nearly 20 additional years following Cartier's death - a period in which the CPR would be built.

If one has a good sense of Canada's history in the 1800s, Macdonald's role in making our country cannot be understated. Without him, there would not have been union (between Ontario and Quebec), Confederation, or the nation's expansion to the West. Britain and the United States would nearly certainly have had their way - Canada would have been annexed by the US and we would all be Americans.

It is unbelievable to me that this designation is met with debate. Macdonald is the single most important politician in our history. I think the man deserves a Parkway.

[agl]

Baird reminds city of fed’s LRT commitment



http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/08/15/baird-reminds-city-of-feds-lrt-commitment

He claims 600 million is the largest federal grant for transit in history. Can anyone confirm that?

Baird was choosing his words carefully on this one. The federal contribution for the Canada Line was $450 million back in 2006, but because it covers both the city of Vancouver and Richmond, it was not just a project for one city. So he is safe to say in this instance the $600 million is 3X more than any other grant given to a single city.
The Feds are contributing almost $700 million for the Spadina metro expansion to Vaughan, but because it crosses municipal boundaries like the Canada Line, it's not money earmarked for one city. Most of Toronto's transit infrastructure crosses into other municipalities, so any federal money they get for transit will never be a project for just one city, unless it's a retrofit of Union Station or something to that effect. This is also why the province puts up a disporportionate amount for GTA transit projects compared to the city of Toronto's required contribution, compared to the traditional 1/3 contribution each from the city, province, and feds that Ottawa and other cities are be accustomed to.
ah, politics.

[J.OT13]

So we got shafted because of amalgamation. McGinty said something similar a few years back stating exactly this; Toronto gets 2/3 + funding because it serves many cities and Ottawa is just one. Then the reporter called him on it saying we use to be 12 cities. McGuinty laughed nervously and then avoided the comment.

I still think amalgamation was a political move to screw us over in the long run.

As for the Spadina line extending to Vaughn; isn't it really suburban for this level of rapid transit? I sure hope they're not building any of this extension underground. Seems TO gets funding for any half backed idea they get, look at the Sheppard line; what a waste of money.

Is there a reason they are not building a downtown relief line? Wouldn't that have a way higher ridership than all these suburban centres? Isn't the Yonge-University-Spidina line way over capacity downtown? How can adding to it and building a bunch of LRT lines dumping on the Yonge-University-Spidina help anything?

I really don’t care what TO builds, I just don’t like that they get 2/3 to 100% funding for any project, no matter how useless and we have to fight tooth and nail for a little over half the funding for a line we desperately need.

[J.OT13]

Oh, and now than I'm done with my TO rant; did anyone see the news yesterday when they showed people a 10$ bill and they thought the guy on it was Laurier? One even thought it was Borden.

:whatthefuck:, I wasn't happy when no one knew who Colonel John By was the other day, but this is ridiculous!

People think Americans are idiots; at least they know their country’s history.

My elementary school was called George Étienne Cartier, but yet we never learned who he was, although to be fair my school was in Québec where it is forbidden to talk about anything that had to do with a united Canada.

[agl]

Most if not all of the spadina extension is underground. It will service York University, which justifies at least to that point the need/desire for rapid transit. According to Wikipedia, the extension north beyond York was a condition to get provincial funding for the entire project, as it crosses a municipal boundary. Whether it makes sense or not to deliver rapid transit that far north is another question.
To be fair to Toronto, for this particular project they and the York Region are contributing a combined 1/3 of the funding, though I have seen for other transit projects in the GTA that the province has kicked in more than the 1/3 share.
It would be interesting to have a parallel universe (for oh so many reasons) where almagamation did not occur and see how funding scenarios would turn out for transit projects in our region. On the flip side, a bunch of mini-municipalities, an overarching regional government layer, NCC, then provincial and federal government presence was just too many layers of bureaucracy for our area.
What we need now is for councillors to get the fiefdom ideology out of their heads when it comes to deciding on what is best for the city, rather than what is just best for their wards. I'm thinking less councillors representing specific wards, and adding a few "supercouncillors" that are elected to represent the entire city in order to strike a proper balance at the council table. This is provided the "supers" don't just become the mayor's minions and always do his/her bidding.

[J.OT13]

Most if not all of the spadina extension is underground. It will service York University, which justifies at least to that point the need/desire for rapid transit. According to Wikipedia, the extension north beyond York was a condition to get provincial funding for the entire project, as it crosses a municipal boundary. Whether it makes sense or not to deliver rapid transit that far north is another question.
To be fair to Toronto, for this particular project they and the York Region are contributing a combined 1/3 of the funding, though I have seen for other transit projects in the GTA that the province has kicked in more than the 1/3 share.
It would be interesting to have a parallel universe (for oh so many reasons) where almagamation did not occur and see how funding scenarios would turn out for transit projects in our region. On the flip side, a bunch of mini-municipalities, an overarching regional government layer, NCC, then provincial and federal government presence was just too many layers of bureaucracy for our area.
What we need now is for councillors to get the fiefdom ideology out of their heads when it comes to deciding on what is best for the city, rather than what is just best for their wards. I'm thinking less councillors representing specific wards, and adding a few "supercouncillors" that are elected to represent the entire city in order to strike a proper balance at the council table. This is provided the "supers" don't just become the mayor's minions and always do his/her bidding.

What would happen if the next phase was extended to Orleans, then we go the extra mile (or two) to Rockland? Then would we get that 100% funding so that we have money for the southern and western extensions. Justification for the extension to Rockland would be an alternative to widening Highway 17.

Of course that wouldn’t fly because we are Ottawa and "budget constraints" to pay for more important things like billions in questionable National Defence equipment, changing names of everything to better reflect Conservative ideology (Royal Canadian Pains in the Ass) and of course billions in funding for idiotic projects to better serve the centre of the universe that is Toronto.

And yes, we certainly do need to revisit the way city government representation works, however that might look like.

[kevinbottawa]

This is good news.

NY-based nonprofit to give Market advice

By Jon Willing ,Ottawa Sun
First posted: Thursday, August 16, 2012 01:12 PM EDT | Updated: Thursday, August 16, 2012 04:19 PM EDT

City Hall and the Byward Market BIA propose splitting the cost of bringing in a New York-based nonprofit group to assess the tourist area.

It will cost $38,350 to bring Project for Public Spaces to Ottawa for the “visioning” exercise, which was directed by the planning committee.

The cost doesn’t include expenses and taxes.

The contract is being sole-sourced because, as the city rationalizes in a report, the organization has a specialty in market development.

PPS is expected to visit Ottawa Sept. 28-29 and Oct. 23.

The city portion of the bill would come out of the planning budget The planning committee will be asked to sign off next Thursday.

A reduction in grocery stores in the market got the committee thinking last March about a shift in the retail mix. That’s when councillors decided they need to hire a consultant to help understand the dynamics.

-- Jon Willing

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/08/16/ny-based-nonprofit-could-give-market-advice

[kevinbottawa]

NYC specialists in market districts to advise on ByWard’s future
By David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen August 16, 2012 1:42 PM

OTTAWA — The city is hiring the New York-based Project for Public Spaces to help figure out what the future of the ByWard Market should be.

In the fall, the non-profit group will send a small team headed by David O’Neil, who ran Philadelphia’s Reading Terminal Market for 10 years. Through public forums and workshops on two days in September and October, they’re meant to divine a way to keep the ByWard Market’s food-sellers successful while the area deals with constant pressure to become a nightclub and restaurant district.

The roughly $40,000 cost of the work is to be split between the city and the ByWard Market merchants’ association. Councillor Mathieu Fleury, the merchants and the Lowertown community association are all thrilled with the group’s involvement, according to letters included in a short report to city council’s planning committee on the selection. Besides numerous projects in the U.S., the Project for Public Spaces has worked in Kingston, Vancouver and Halifax.

Bars and clubs have been crowding retail businesses out of the Market for years — to the point where the city put a temporary moratorium on new night spots there in 2006 — but the situation reached a crisis last summer when the second-last store that sells fruits and vegetables year-round went out of business.

Residents and food-sellers started worrying that if the last produce store, the Byward Fruit Market, were to close, the retail ecosystem that includes butchers, delis, bakers, fishmongers and cheese shops would collapse, since it wouldn’t be possible for people to do all their grocery shopping in one place when the outdoor summer stands are closed. If shoppers had to go to supermarkets for their apples and lettuce and lemons, the thinking goes, they’re liable to buy their meat and bread and fish there, too.

The Project for Public Spaces does a lot of neighbourhood-design work but its particular specialty is public markets and how food can be the centrepiece of a prosperous district — it’s running a national conference on the subject in Cleveland in September.

dreevely@ottawacitizen.com

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[J.OT13]

Q the "Friends of Unnecessary Competition"?

[adam-machiavelli]

the parkway should be named after someone who made a real contribution to humanity, but also modern vehicular transportation (related to the parkway aspect) as opposed to someone who drew a line in the ground, thus dividing humans between each other and saying "these people to the north are not americans". The parkway should be named after Le Corbusier or L'Enfant. While I dislike them both, I think it's more relevant than good ol' Jonn-Eh boy.

[J.OT13]

the parkway should be named after someone who made a real contribution to humanity, but also modern vehicular transportation (related to the parkway aspect) as opposed to someone who drew a line in the ground, thus dividing humans between each other and saying "these people to the north are not americans". The parkway should be named after Le Corbusier or L'Enfant. While I dislike them both, I think it's more relevant than good ol' Jonn-Eh boy.

Le Corbusier and L'Enfant didn't make any sort of contribution to Canada. Maybe Mackenzie King or Gréber would have been more appropriate, although they are already well represented in the region.

Although the Parkway has no sort of connection to McD, it is an acceptable compromise from the idea of changing the name of Wellington.

Although spending the salary of a laid off federal employee on renaming yet another thing to honour the Conservative ways is sort of a slap in the face.

[eternallyme]

Le Corbusier and L'Enfant didn't make any sort of contribution to Canada. Maybe Mackenzie King or Gréber would have been more appropriate, although they are already well represented in the region.

Although the Parkway has no sort of connection to McD, it is an acceptable compromise from the idea of changing the name of Wellington.

Although spending the salary of a laid off federal employee on renaming yet another thing to honour the Conservative ways is sort of a slap in the face.

What about one of the shorter-term Prime Ministers?

Much better than, say, Trudeau or Mulroney.

[Chris-R]

What about one of the shorter-term Prime Ministers?

Much better than, say, Trudeau or Mulroney.

Like Mackenzie Bowell? Conservative, had a beard, lasted for about five months. Even died in nearish-byish Belleville. :D

[adam-machiavelli]

Why the emphasis on naming things after politicians, most of whom in my mind are just glorified car salespeople?

[Ottawan]

For those not interested in the Sir John A. Parkway issue, this is a bit off topic for this thread, for which I apologise. You may wish to skip the below.

the parkway should be named after someone who made a real contribution to humanity, but also modern vehicular transportation (related to the parkway aspect) as opposed to someone who drew a line in the ground, thus dividing humans between each other and saying "these people to the north are not americans". The parkway should be named after Le Corbusier or L'Enfant. While I dislike them both, I think it's more relevant than good ol' Jonn-Eh boy.

Believe it or not, there are large consequences of where a line is drawn. For example, Canada pursued a very different policy regarding aboriginal communities than the United States, which nearly wiped theirs out. As a result, they form a much larger percentage of our population than that below the border. Similarly, the United States would not have pursued a system of cultural federalism, and the French language in North America (and French Canadian culture) would nearly certainly not currently exist. Canada's approach and contributions during the First and Second World Wars were greatly different from the Americans', and had we not existed as a country, global history would have been affected. These are but a few of innumerable examples of how where "a line is drawn" was significant.

Regarding your later comment about politicians as car salesmen, I feel that is a very sorry opinion. Unless we are to live in anarchy, there must be some sort of system of governance in the world. Democratic nation-states may not be the ideal system of governance, but it is one of the best ones that humans have come up with so far. In democracies, we must wish to have the best possible people be inclined to enter politics. Your type of view very much discourages this. Personally, I feel that many politicians have and still do enter the public domain as their calling to do public service - they deserve recognition for the work they do and the sacrifice they make (for example, inviting public scrutiny and scorn such as yours).

Re other comments about John A. being Conservative: he was a Conservative in name (actually, initially his party was called Liberal-Conservative), but the politics of the 1800s was extremely different from today. His policies and ideas do not really correspond to those of the current Conservative party. In many ways, the 1800s Liberals (actually known as Reform for much of that century) espoused a rural-based protestant populism that much more corresponds to today's Conservatives while Macdonald's approach involved government intervention and centralization of power away from the Provinces which is much more similar to today's Liberals. In any case, to me he is a political figure who belongs to Canadians of all stripes.

[S-Man]

John A. Macdolald was a Liberal-Conservative? How is that making people react in partisan terms? He was the first Prime Minister. Nearly 150 years ago. That is a big deal.

Abraham Lincoln was a Republican. Freed the slaves, etc. Are we going to have Romney comparisons here?

De Corbusier? Wasn't he the father of Brutalism, the uglest and most maligned form of architecture in history? That actually would be fitting, espeially for the part of the parkway going past Tunney's Pasture.

As for military jets being financed through Ottawa taxpayers specifically, maybe ou're taking ono too many things in one sentence. Ottawa taxpayers contribute exactly as much towards those over-priced, unfortunately single-engined jets as people in Victoria and Saskatoon.

Trudeau purchased our current jets at the dawn of the 1980's, when the Transitway was still in planning, to replace jets bought when the Queensway was brand new and passenger trains were still chugging into Union Station downtown.

It's the circle of military life. There will always be something that the money SHOULD have been spent on, but that doesn't mean the country should go unarmed because of it.

That said, I don't like the F-35. Buy a small amount of them for a single specialized squadron and replace the rest with more familiar, cheaper Super Hornets.

[adam-machiavelli]

epic thread drift

[Uhuniau]

Although the Parkway has no sort of connection to McD, it is an acceptable compromise from the idea of changing the name of Wellington.

Know what else is an acceptable compromise from the idea of changing the name of Wellington?

Telling Bob Plamondon to get stuffed.

That's also quite acceptable.

[rakerman]

Usual Citizen puff-piece on Ashcroft's The Next

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/homes/modern+Bank+Street+west+side/7106073/story.html

$228,000 for 517 square feet
Parking: $29,900 plus $30 extra per month in condo fees. Lockers and bicycle storage available.

228 for 517 makes it $441/sqft

Site: http://benext.ca/

[S-Man]

'The Next' doesn't roll off the tongue very well. Ashcroft is screwing with the english language!

Apologies for epic thread shift.

[J.OT13]

What's up with the huge hole on Maisoneuve.

[S-Man]

What's up with the huge hole on Maisoneuve.

It might be the one the PQ is digging for itself.

But seriously, I don't know.

[wingman]

It might be the one the PQ is digging for itself.

But seriously, I don't know.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5726802&postcount=2041

New condo!

[concernedottawa]

Large property acquisition taking place one block NW of Lansdowne.

Entire block of Thornton/Bank/Monk/Holmwood.

Including Beer Store, Mr. Muffler. Approaching Kettleman's now to build above.

Approximate block size 400 x 160.

Gas line/electrical and water connection location starting.

[citizen j]

^I think Walmart is planning to put in a store there and demolish the blocks of housing around it for parking.

[OttawaSteve]

Large property acquisition taking place one block NW of Lansdowne.

Entire block of Thornton/Bank/Monk/Holmwood.

Including Beer Store, Mr. Muffler. Approaching Kettleman's now to build above.

Approximate block size 400 x 160.

Gas line/electrical and water connection location starting.

Funny because Kettleman's just underwent renovations.

If this is true, and if it's done properly, a development on this site could play an important role in integrating the Lansdowne development with the main shopping area of the Glebe further north, both aesthetically/visually and in terms of encouraging the flow of pedestrian traffic between the two.

I'm picturing something along the lines of Westboro Station, with retail at ground level, a taller building on the southeast corner of the site at Bank and Holmwood (8-10 storeys), and a shorter one (4-6 storeys) to the north.

[KHOOLE]

Funny because Kettleman's just underwent renovations.

If this is true, and if it's done properly, a development on this site could play an important role in integrating the Lansdowne development with the main shopping area of the Glebe further north, both aesthetically/visually and in terms of encouraging the flow of pedestrian traffic between the two.

I'm picturing something along the lines of Westboro Station, with retail at ground level, a taller building on the southeast corner of the site at Bank and Holmwood (8-10 storeys), and a shorter one (4-6 storeys) to the north.

the latest gossip circulating in the neighbourhood is that this city block will be turned into a "parkade" to provide additional parking for the parking premises lacking in the proposed residential and commercial development project as well as for the professional sports facilities such as the FC Stadium and the 67's arena.

Would not like to see Kettleman's replaced by, say, Wendy's and Swiss Chalet!

Would this be another Shenkman or Minto project by any chance?

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

This reminds me, several of my family members are claiming they heard from a friend that there's going to be a 47 storey tower going on that block. Gotta love sensationalism.

[S-Man]

I heard there was going to be a monument built to developers, complete with hate-filled pamphlets,people hired to shove you while walking down the sidewalk, posters of Harper and Jim Watson accepting huge cheques and paper bags full of developer's cash, and speakers broadcasting the sound of angry dogs barking.

It's what I heard. Just sayin'.

[Uhuniau]

I heard there was going to be a monument built to developers, complete with hate-filled pamphlets,people hired to shove you while walking down the sidewalk, posters of Harper and Jim Watson accepting huge cheques and paper bags full of developer's cash, and speakers broadcasting the sound of angry dogs barking.

It's what I heard. Just sayin'.

I'd believe it if it involved statues of dead children, but it doesn't, so it's bunk.

[gatt]

What's up with the huge hole on Maisoneuve.

an ugly 10 storeys residential.

[concernedottawa]

Someone has mentioned the name "Thomas" out of Toronto for the name of the development
firm acquiring property in the Thornton/Bank/Monk/Holmwood block.

[J.OT13]

Someone

Who?

[MountainView]

Saw a large for sale sign on this property on the way home from work today. Looks like they might be trying to market it for someone to buy it and NOT keep it as a retirement home. I think it would be a great location for a new mid-rise.

http://www.barclaycommercial.com/PDFs/BCC-%20Sterling%20Intro%20Brochure-Aug%2012-Draft-PSD.pdf

[McC]

Neat, all of the property around that intersection is PRIME redevelopment land, once it becomes certain that LRT is going out that way by a fixed date.

[Norman Bates]

In the late '70s it was a Best Western hotel. I think it was called Macey's Best Western.

I never realized how much space there was on that property.

[McC]

I can't speak for the 70s, but there's been a Macie's Best Western at Carling and Merrivale for a long time.

[J.OT13]

Don't know if we have a thread for it, so I'll post it here for now. Claridge is finnaly starting the next phase of theire Lebreton Flats project in December.

Construction crews returning to LeBreton Flats in December

Ottawa homebuilder Claridge Homes is preparing to begin building the third phase of its residential community in LeBreton Flats.
Topics : National Capital Commission , Minto Group , Alliance Prevel of Montreal , Ottawa , Urban Village , Fleet Street

The third installment, titled Fusion, will include two condominium residences on Fleet Street and Lett Street respectively, with boutique-style stacked townhomes in between the six and eight-storey structures.

Ranging in price from $254,000 to $690,000, construction of the homes is set to begin this December and wrap up by 2014.

The development will include seven or eight phases depending on market demand, according to Claridge vice-president Neil Malhotra, and will include high-rise, low-rise and townhouse dwellings. In the end, 850 residences will make up Claridge’s Urban Village, which claims to be Ottawa’s first LEED-certified neighbourhood.

Since winning the contract from the National Capital Commission in 2004 to redevelop 4.4 hectares on the underdeveloped waterfront property, Claridge has built two 13-story towers, each containing 173 units.

The first tower was completed in 2008; the second last year. But despite construction plans moving ahead on schedule, the development has generated much controversy.



HISTORY

LeBreton Flats was one of Ottawa’s first residential and industrial settlements, but the land was expropriated by the federal government in 1962 with the intention of developing government buildings. The land sat unused for almost forty years before the NCC announced plans in 2000 to invest $99 million of federal funding into redeveloping LeBreton Flats with the goal of bringing 5,000 residents to the area. The initiative began with extensive soil remediation to clean up pollution left from former industrial and timber sites.

When the NCC issued a request for proposals in 2004, it received six expressions of interest. Three were shortlisted including Claridge, Ottawa-based Minto Group Inc. and Alliance Prevel of Montreal.

Federal documents cited by media reports stated that of the three, Claridge came in last place when ranked on design experience, statement of design intent and development experience.

But when the deadline arrived, only Claridge submitted a detailed development proposal. The other two contenders dropped out of the running, accusing the NCC of introducing new conditions that made the project uneconomical, according to media reports.

Claridge, the only remaining candidate, was awarded the contract.



DEVELOPMENT

The NCC was criticized for its selection process, but so too was Claridge when its design plans were released. They were accused of being too ordinary, and undeserving of such a unique site.

But the project is nowhere near complete, Mr. Malhotra says, and additional phases may change people’s minds.

“It’s quite striking when you come from downtown,” he says. “The part of the building you see from the west is not the part you will see in the future.”

The side facing Booth Street will eventually be blocked by office buildings from later NCC developments, and Claridge is holding off on further designs for the site’s west side until LRT decisions are finalized for the LeBreton Flats stop, currently slated for just south of the existing Transitway.

LRT construction won’t hinder the developer for long, Mr. Malhotra says, and will offer its residents a convenient way to commute upon completion.

Claridge’s Urban Village development will be completed by 2017 at the earliest. Although the conceptual ideas for the project have been determined, design work for future phases is incomplete in order make sure of new technologies and architectural ideas that may arise.

The developer has been working with Montreal architect Dan Hanganu on its designs.

The NCC plans for development of the area to be completed by 2020. About 40 per cent of the 65-hectare flats will remain green space, including parks, a festival site and recreational pathways, according to media reports.

Claridge is one of Ottawa’s largest homebuilders and one of the most active builders in the downtown core.

It’s continuing construction on the two 28-storey Tribeca condominium towers at the east side of Metcalfe Street, between Gloucester and Nepean Streets, and wants to build a 27-storey condo on Nepean Street, between Metcalfe and O’Connor streets.

The company has also released plans to build the city’s tallest tower with a 42-storey condo building.


Update: forgot the link;

http://www.obj.ca/Real%20Estate/Construction/2012-08-29/article-3063569/Construction-crews-returning-to-LeBreton-Flats-in-December/1

[S-Man]

Holy God - I never thought they'd actually start building these, but seriously - December?? Why not...um...August, or spring, like everyone thought it would be?

Besides that, the whole "don't worry, the ugly buildings will be blocked in the future" commentary is a little disturbing, and redeems many people's opinions I imagine.

[S-Man]

Also, I am the only one who thinks that being guided by a plan from '2004' seems pretty dated, even for Ottawa, and especially given the advances (if you want to call them that) of the previous few years?

[amanfromnowhere]

Don't know if we have a thread for it, so I'll post it here for now. Claridge is finnaly starting the next phase of theire Lebreton Flats project in December.



Update: forgot the link;

http://www.obj.ca/Real%20Estate/Construction/2012-08-29/article-3063569/Construction-crews-returning-to-LeBreton-Flats-in-December/1

Here is an image from OBJ:

http://www.obj.ca/media/photos/unis/2012/08/29/photo_2158702_resize.jpg

it's actually not bad... plain simple and I like it

[J.OT13]

It beats phases I and II. Hopefully they continue to implement higher quality products in future phases.

[S-Man]

Colours and materials.

No more yellow brick!

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Condos does not a neighbourhood make. Where are the local businesses? Where is the true integration and augmentation of local attractions/benefits? Where are the restaurants, bars, shops, cafes, etc.?

LeBreton Flats really is a wasted opportunity.

[S-Man]

Agreed, as it stands now. A residential dead zone that is only a destination for the people that sleep there. If I lived there and wanted to walk to a bar, where the hell would I go?

[J.OT13]

Mill Street Brewry :notacrook:

[AuxTown]

Mill Street Brewry :notacrook:

+1 on that one, mill street is awesome!

[citizen j]

Here is an image from OBJ:

http://www.obj.ca/media/photos/unis/2012/08/29/photo_2158702_resize.jpg

it's actually not bad... plain simple and I like it

True, it's incredibly not bad. Which isn't the standard to which developers should be allowed to aspire, particularly not on that site.

[S-Man]

Oh yeah - Mill Street! Forgot it was there. Maybe not a good thing for the establishment, though I hope business is good.

Then there's always the trek to Barbarellas. Is it still there?

[McC]

Condos does not a neighbourhood make. Where are the local businesses? Where is the true integration and augmentation of local attractions/benefits? Where are the restaurants, bars, shops, cafes, etc.?

LeBreton Flats really is a wasted opportunity.

I think in the plan, Booth is supposed to serve a bit of the High Street function for the neighbourhood, but we're still a long way away from the buildings that will front on to it. There's a chicken and egg problems now: there's no point in opening up a bunch of commercial space to serve the couple of hundred residents who are already there (who else would cross no-man's land to get there? if you even can get there, with some paths permanently blocked off and others closing from Fall-Spring, etc.).

It'll likely stay pretty lifeless until they build up to a critical mass of people in the neighbourhood to support a lively variety of businesses, but of course that "lifelessness" is pretty off-putting to many who might want to live there, suppressing demand and slowing the development towards that critical population mass.... and round and round.

[TransitZilla]

I think in the plan, Booth is supposed to serve a bit of the High Street function for the neighbourhood, but we're still a long way away from the buildings that will front on to it. There's a chicken and egg problems now: there's no point in opening up a bunch of commercial space to serve the couple of hundred residents who are already there (who else would cross no-man's land to get there? if you even can get there, with some paths permanently blocked off and others closing from Fall-Spring, etc.).

It'll likely stay pretty lifeless until they build up to a critical mass of people in the neighbourhood to support a lively variety of businesses, but of course that "lifelessness" is pretty off-putting to many who might want to live there, suppressing demand and slowing the development towards that critical population mass.... and round and round.

The real reason the Booth St buildings aren't there yet is because Booth is due to be re-constructed with an overpass over the Transitway/LRT... it is not close to its final grade so it's a bit pre-mature to build buildings fronting onto it.

As for the design of the new phase... it's OK, but it seems like a real wasted opportunity to not have homes fronting right on the aqueduct pathway...

[Uhuniau]

True, it's incredibly not bad. Which isn't the standard to which developers should be allowed to aspire, particularly not on that site.

Except for that stupid green space.

Why, in a goddamn ocean of green space, is there a need for more damn green space?

Green space!

GREEN SPACE!

Pave the damn green space!

[Uhuniau]

Condos does not a neighbourhood make. Where are the local businesses? Where is the true integration and augmentation of local attractions/benefits? Where are the restaurants, bars, shops, cafes, etc.?

LeBreton Flats really is a wasted opportunity.

The NCC describes this as a vibrant, mixed-use neighbourhood, and who are you or I to disagree?

[Hybrid247]

Condos does not a neighbourhood make. Where are the local businesses? Where is the true integration and augmentation of local attractions/benefits? Where are the restaurants, bars, shops, cafes, etc.?

LeBreton Flats really is a wasted opportunity.

Agreed. It'd be the perfect spot for a stadium and arena, but we all know that's not happening..

[J.OT13]

Agreed. It'd be the perfect spot for a stadium and arena, but we all know that's not happening..

Maybe not a stadium, but we could still dream of one day seeing a NHL arena.

[ajldub]

Ditto with the wasted space comment. Although I have to say so are the master plans for Lansdowne Park, Westboro Convent, etc. etc. This city struggles so much with conceiving great ideas because it is drowning in huge redevelopment opportunities all over the place, and as a result local developers get to come in and do pretty much whatever they want. The NCC picks the brick colour and everybody calls it a day. In all fairness they did get it done with the Convention Centre. Let's see what happens with Tunneys, the Chaudiere, and the Rockcliffe airforce base. I'm not holding my breath but I am willing to be surprised...

[Harley613]

Maybe not a stadium, but we could still dream of one day seeing a NHL arena.

i figure the replacement for the scotiabank place won't end up here unfortunately. it's due in 10-20 years, more likely at the high end of that...and by then there won't be any space left on lebreton flats. it'll be eaten up by garish half-assed claridge condos and other garbage. what a spot it would have been though!

[bobcage]

i figure the replacement for the scotiabank place won't end up here unfortunately. it's due in 10-20 years, more likely at the high end of that...and by then there won't be any space left on lebreton flats. it'll be eaten up by garish half-assed claridge condos and other garbage. what a spot it would have been though!

Scotiabank Place at Lebreton Flats would have Epic ....it would have brought more life to downtown -- I bet the Federal gvmt had input on this .... Hockey defines Canada so Scotiabank Place should be close to the Hill IMO

[bobcage]

Scotiabank Place at Lebreton Flats would have Epic ....it would have brought more life to downtown -- I bet the Federal gvmt had input on this .... Hockey defines Canada so Scotiabank Place should be close to the Hill IMO

I don't know how to use this forum ---trying my besthttp://www.flickr.com/photos/86374926@N07/

[bobcage]

sry I was trying to post a pic of my vision of a rideau canal marina downtown --- but I can't figure out how to post pictures yet....


here is the link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/86374926@N07/7911338234/in/photostream

[bobcage]

I don't know how to use this forum ---trying my besthttp://www.flickr.com/photos/86374926@N07/

my Marina should be flipped around obviously - but I think the NCC has enough money to dig this out -- and they could put winterlude on real ICE .



there's ways to freeze the canal so it would be safe 100% of the time for winterlude on the "Canal Marina"

you drain it bone dry in October, when the couple of feet of water freezes solid... open the locks to fill the canal for only another 3 feet or so of water...... let is freeze hard --- buy February during Winterlude downtown at the "Canal Marina" you would be walking on the "marina canal" ice no matter what weather ---- but it's usually -30 in Feb in Ottawa so no problem...this would work

[bobcage]

my Marina should be flipped around obviously - but I think the NCC has enough money to dig this out -- and they could put winterlude on real ICE .



there's ways to freeze the canal so it would be safe 100% of the time for winterlude on the "Canal Marina"

you drain it bone dry in October, when the couple of feet of water freezes solid... open the locks to fill the canal for only another 3 feet or so of water...... let is freeze hard --- buy February during Winterlude downtown at the "Canal Marina" you would be walking on the "marina canal" ice no matter what weather ---- but it's usually -30 in Feb in Ottawa so no problem...this would work
who is the president of the NCC? \\

anyone...feel free to forward my "canal marina" plan to the right people ....it wouldn't cost that much == a few backhoes digging would do the job - and you have to dig 15-20ft so the weeds don't grow in this "canal Marina"

[J.OT13]

sry I was trying to post a pic of my vision of a rideau canal marina downtown --- but I can't figure out how to post pictures yet....


here is the link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/86374926@N07/7911338234/in/photostream

They haven't yet chosen a new NCC CEO.

Your marina is an interesting idea, but there might be some heritage/UNESCO status issues. Although the canal use to have a lay bay downtown, but I'm not sure if it was where the NAC stands today or Confederation Park.

Lansdowne could likely hold a marina without too much red tape.

Update; 1884 map seems to show the lay bay right under where the Mackenzie-King Bridge stands today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ottawa_map_1894.jpg

[J.OT13]

The next Palladium should be at Le Breton Flats or Bayview. I would settle for Hurdman.

It has to be on a rapid transit line in a central location, accessible from all parts of the city with roughly equal distance from all points.

[McC]

Uhm, they do drain the canal every fall (everything except Dow's Lake, which is a bit of a reservoir)

[FiereSansVoiture]

sry I was trying to post a pic of my vision of a rideau canal marina downtown --- but I can't figure out how to post pictures yet....

I don't know if there is a simpler way of doing it but what you can do is to register through an image hosting service (i.e. servimg.com, hostingpics.net)
and use the link given by it.
There you go :)
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/63016440ba.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=63016440ba.jpg)

[FiereSansVoiture]

Uhm, they do drain the canal every fall (everything except Dow's Lake, which is a bit of a reservoir)
From what I've seen, I guess that the canal is lowered 5 or 6 feet at fall.
On this picture, we can see a black demarcation on Bank street bridge that is a witnesses that the water level is higher during summer.
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/233848blackdemarcation.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=233848blackdemarcation.jpg)

[McC]

First they drain it down to a trickle.

[FiereSansVoiture]

my Marina should be flipped around obviously - but I think the NCC has enough money to dig this out -- and they could put winterlude on real ICE .



there's ways to freeze the canal so it would be safe 100% of the time for winterlude on the "Canal Marina"

you drain it bone dry in October, when the couple of feet of water freezes solid... open the locks to fill the canal for only another 3 feet or so of water...... let is freeze hard --- buy February during Winterlude downtown at the "Canal Marina" you would be walking on the "marina canal" ice no matter what weather ---- but it's usually -30 in Feb in Ottawa so no problem...this would work
I don't really understand the point of putting a marina on the canal.
It would clearly cost more than a marina on a natural river and it doesn't really answer one of ncc's missions. Based on you're drawing I can't see more than 30 boats docked in that water area. You seem to underestimate the cost of canal marina. Just taking a wild guess, I would estimate the cost to be at least 1 or 2 millions$. For the same cost I'd rather see public art.
Something like cloud gate, Chicago
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/780515cloudgategrantpkchicago.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=780515cloudgategrantpkchicago.jpg)
La fourchette de vevey, Geneva
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/358350LafourchetteaVeveya22665002.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=358350LafourchetteaVeveya22665002.jpg)
Porte du temps Marmande
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/508871dallaneseportedutemps1263247361.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=508871dallaneseportedutemps1263247361.jpg)
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/127079lampadaires.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=127079lampadaires.jpg)

[Harley613]

hey Bobcage! I really like the marina idea and what a perfect spot for it! I'll definitely push for that when I become mayor.

[bobcage]

I don't really understand the point of putting a marina on the canal.
It would clearly cost more than a marina on a natural river and it doesn't really answer one of ncc's missions. Based on you're drawing I can't see more than 30 boats docked in that water area. You seem to underestimate the cost of canal marina. Just taking a wild guess, I would estimate the cost to be at least 1 or 2 millions$. For the same cost I'd rather see public art.
Something like cloud gate, Chicago
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/780515cloudgategrantpkchicago.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=780515cloudgategrantpkchicago.jpg)
La fourchette de vevey, Geneva
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/358350LafourchetteaVeveya22665002.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=358350LafourchetteaVeveya22665002.jpg)
Porte du temps Marmande
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/508871dallaneseportedutemps1263247361.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=508871dallaneseportedutemps1263247361.jpg)
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/127079lampadaires.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=127079lampadaires.jpg)


A Marina on the bottom half of Confederation park would look awsome.The bottom of that park is rarely being used except for a few events in the park.
nobody uses the bottom of the park.

A marina would be very useful, there's very limited Berthing spots on the Canal downtown. Boats are all lined up in the summer with no spots left so alot of boats just keeps on driving by without stopping Downtown.

You could not build it big enough -

Yes it would cost more than 2 million to built for sure,maybe 10-15 million+,
but it would quickly make allot of money to the city once boaters know they can come dock downtown for a few days - special the deep pocket yachts!

a few Berthings behind Chateau Laurier at the bottom of the locks would help too!