Calgary International Airport II

[hehehe]

Seems like WS is having some problems at YYC today. Good thing they weren't very ambitious with their winter schedule and made some cuts (From my uninformed viewpoint I'm assuming a smaller schedule helps things out for them).

[hollywoodcory]

They had a global IT outage. Lots of major delays system wide.

[hollywoodcory]

Based on the initial coordination reports WS has filed new routes: YYC-DXB/EDI. While WS has requested and obtained DXB slots the last few years, this marks the first time the report explicitly marks YYC (the others didn’t have a destination marked).

Also they now have daily LHR slots year-round. Also looks like LGW might be getting the boot as the report only lists YVR.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Based on the initial coordination reports WS has filed new routes: YYC-DXB/EDI. While WS has requested and obtained DXB slots the last few years, this marks the first time the report explicitly marks YYC (the others didn’t have a destination marked).

Also they now have daily LHR slots year-round. Also looks like LGW might be getting the boot as the report only lists YVR.

I'd assume they'd announce any changes the week after next week after the slot conference in Melbourne. So it seems like DXB and EDI are potential new destinations, I'd assume BCN and possibly ATH as well (and AMS since they said those were year round slots).

Is the jury still out as to whether YVR-LGW remains or not, even with the LGW slot allocation?

Also it seems like WS is adding a second daily YZF flight on Sunday, Friday and Saturday and is mainline on Thursdays and Fridays in December.

The internet seems to believe WestJet is flying to everywhere including the moon from YYC next summer with just 7 frames, so something has to give.

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

The internet seems to believe WestJet is flying to everywhere including the moon from YYC next summer with just 7 frames, so something has to give.

I’d go to the moon! LOL

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

The internet seems to believe WestJet is flying to everywhere including the moon from YYC next summer with just 7 frames, so something has to give.

Moonjet!

In all seriousness, Westjet's summer 2023 intercontinental schedule looks like:

YYC (787s):

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

1.5-2 frames for LGW/LHR (4/week LHR, 7/week LGW)
1 for CDG (daily)
1 for AMS (daily)
1 for FCO (? uncertain of frequency)
1 for a mix of DUB/EDI (EDI unconfirmed)
1 for DXB (unconfirmed)

YVR (787):
LGW (uncertain)

YYZ 737MAX (all questionable):
DUB
GLA
EDI

YHZ: nada

Seems reasonable, no? There's no confirmation of BCN coming back, is there? Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

There's no sense using the 787 for domestic runs out of YYZ unless one is repositioning them. That isn't required now that the fleet is solely in Calgary.

[hehehe]

By the way the AMS flights on WS still have very cheap prices. Are they doing ok on selling those flights or?

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by hehehe

By the way the AMS flights on WS still have very cheap prices. Are they doing ok on selling those flights or?

AMS is still having pretty big issues with airport operations. I suspect business travellers are avoiding the place, and Europe in the winter is a less popular destination for the casual traveller.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

The internet seems to believe WestJet is flying to everywhere including the moon from YYC next summer with just 7 frames, so something has to give.

I saw SYD on FB. It would be odd for WS to launch Australia in the summer anyways so maybe that's being considered for next winter if there's any truth to that at all.

I've now seen DXB, SYD, EDI, GLA, BCN, ATH, ICN all rumored at least once for S23. Reminds me of when WS was going to announce the initial 787 routes and places like EZE and AKL popped up.

Originally Posted by thewave46

Moonjet!

In all seriousness, Westjet's summer 2023 intercontinental schedule looks like:

YYC (787s):


YVR (787):
LGW (uncertain)

YYZ 737MAX (all questionable):
DUB
GLA
EDI

YHZ: nada

Seems reasonable, no? There's no confirmation of BCN coming back, is there? Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

There's no sense using the 787 for domestic runs out of YYZ unless one is repositioning them. That isn't required now that the fleet is solely in Calgary.

I'd say LHR will be daily and if they keep LGW at about 3-4x weekly. The reports still list YHZ-DUB as happening. Only LGW got "zeroed" out for them.

So:

LHR / CDG / AMS - Daily
LGW - 3-4x weekly
EDI/DUB - 3-4x weekly each
FCO/BCN - 3-4x weekly each
DXB - 3x weekly

If they don't get daily AMS slots, the aircraft could be split with LGW.

Originally Posted by hehehe

By the way the AMS flights on WS still have very cheap prices. Are they doing ok on selling those flights or?

Well it came online and available to book very late, and this is the low season of travel Europe. My understanding is that bookings are about what one would expect, and I personally think that even if they weren't (at least initially) they'll hold the line given the work it took to acquire the slots.

[MalcolmTucker]

Hmmm. I wonder what kind of loads TUI Fly's 787s have. Could they just wet lease the extra to derisk for a year or two before pulling the trigger on their options?

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Hmmm. I wonder what kind of loads TUI Fly's 787s have. Could they just wet lease the extra to derisk for a year or two before pulling the trigger on their options?

Seeing as WS just cancelled 3 orders from their initial 10 frames, and the CEO is on record as saying WestJet's strategic priority isn't in widebody flying (only incidentally as it makes sense), I can't see the fleet growing beyond 7 aircraft, leased (wet or dry) or purchased. My guess is if that Alexis replaced Ed Sims earlier he would have cancelled the entire expansion.

[MalcolmTucker]

I think we’re reading too much into their pandemic refocusing.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

I think we’re reading too much into their pandemic refocusing.

I'm not sure that this is just a pandemic refocusing, or perhaps a longer-term acknowledgement of what niche the Westjet/Onex airline conglomerate occupies in the Canadian airline space.

Most developed countries of ~30-80m people - even if fairly large in area - can only support one major domestically-based full-range intercontinental airline. That kind of operation is only really possible because one is scooping up most of that type of travel and can provide a adequately large network of destinations. That's not something easily managed, and when one is trying to break into that space, one is fighting the big boys.

When there is a second one, it tends to occupy a leisure niche (see: Virgin Atlantic versus British Airways).

So, what does Westjet/Onex do? Try their hand at continued international expansion or protect their profitable North American operations from upstart competition? When one is dealing in terms of finite resources, protecting the money-making base seems to be the best option IMO. Intercontinental operations are more appealing from a 'Oooh fancy' point of view, sure. It just can be a money 🞵🞵🞵🞵/operational distraction. It's part of why Southwest Airlines has traditionally been the most profitable US airline.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I'm not sure that this is just a pandemic refocusing, or perhaps a longer-term acknowledgement of what niche the Westjet/Onex airline conglomerate occupies in the Canadian airline space.

Most developed countries of ~30-80m people - even if fairly large in area - can only support one major domestically-based full-range intercontinental airline. That kind of operation is only really possible because one is scooping up most of that type of travel and can provide a adequately large network of destinations. That's not something easily managed, and when one is trying to break into that space, one is fighting the big boys.

When there is a second one, it tends to occupy a leisure niche (see: Virgin Atlantic versus British Airways).

So, what does Westjet/Onex do? Try their hand at continued international expansion or protect their profitable North American operations from upstart competition? When one is dealing in terms of finite resources, protecting the money-making base seems to be the best option IMO. Intercontinental operations are more appealing from a 'Oooh fancy' point of view, sure. It just can be a money 🞵🞵🞵🞵/operational distraction. It's part of why Southwest Airlines has traditionally been the most profitable US airline.

True. Well their current international expansion lines up with their North American goals too. Summer European leisure is pretty lucrative and so would a potential DXB flight (if it happens) to connect to South Asia and serve VFR traffic. I think their current move to limit the 787's to seven frames is a good idea, and allows them to serve international markets at YYC without much competition, while also being helpful in the winter to operate sun flights.

At the same time I don't think WS is turning into an Air Transat of the west, but is just repositioning after the pandemic to return to profitability. Environmental conditions change all the time and no one knows what WS will do long term.

[hollywoodcory]

Speaking of WS, they resume AMS tonight. I believe this will be the first time they've flown to mainland Europe outside of the summer months.

Looking at the seat map, it looks to be about 70-ish% full? But I don't have any real legit numbers though so don't take that as fact.

[thenoflyzone]

Canada-India bilateral has been expanded effective immediately. Almost open-skies type.

This opens up the possibility of AC or WS starting YYC-DEL. Of course, the route is highly unlikely to happen on a Canadian carrier, with the Russian airspace closure. Maybe AI can give it a go, as they can still overfly Russia. They have fleet issues though at the moment.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/ex...ts-between-both-countries-866124565.html

The expanded agreement allows designated airlines to operate an unlimited number of flights between the two countries. The previous agreement limited each country to 35 flights per week.

...

The agreement gives Canadian air carriers access to Bangalore, Chennai, Delhi, Hyderabad, Kolkata, and Mumbai, and Indian air carriers access to Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton, Vancouver, and two additional points to be selected by India

[YYCFlier]

Interesting that YEG was part of the initial agreement and YYC was not (though it's a logic choice for the remaining two slots). Is there more O&D in YEG? YYC has a sizeable Indian population.

[MalcolmTucker]

I think the old bilatérales mostly had Edmonton in them and this is likely just a hangover.