Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

You don't quite see Justin Trudeau on French television everyday!

He’s the most prominent person on the planet right now who can give an interview about the Queen as a “local” while doing it in almost fluent French. So, not surprising at all.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by harls

Here's an anecdote -

I have 2 kids, they have a Québécoise mother. They are fully bilingual, go to French schools, have no accents when they switch from French to English. I went to Manitoba a couple of weeks ago. On the plane, I watched my kids use the in-flight entertainment.. they ask you what language you want. English, of course.

My kids hate French tv. It's pretty sad because I discovered a lot of great Québec TV shows as a blockhead.

That's exactly what pretty much every francophone kid in Timmins would do. And any of them that I know prefer TV in English. I myself watch Québec TV shows and news sometimes and agree that they are missing out on a number of good programs.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

If it came down to that choice, I'd support the independence of Quebec over giving up freedom of movement.

The interesting thing is that I've never ever heard a hardline separatist suggest that there should be hard borders. Nobody wants customs and immigration. There will continue to be freedom of movement. And it gets more complicated when you factor Indigenous rights and movement of resources.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Metropolitan French have long cast disapproving eyes and made disparaging remarks regarding their English neighbours.

And, yes, it makes no difference if they were UK citizens, Americans, Australians etc. They're all le meme chose

Sort of like how some uneducated Americans or even Albertans cannot tell the difference between Francophone Canadians and people in France.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

That's exactly what pretty much every francophone kid in Timmins would do. And any of them that I know prefer TV in English. I myself watch Québec TV shows and news sometimes and agree that they are missing out on a number of good programs.

Definitely true for Timmins and even Franco-Ontariens in general. But they are not indicative of Quebec. With kids in Quebec itself, YMMV on that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

The interesting thing is that I've never ever heard a hardline separatist suggest that there should be hard borders. Nobody wants customs and immigration. There will continue to be freedom of movement. And it gets more complicated when you factor Indigenous rights and movement of resources.

Correct. There would almost certainly be *-some* form of freedom of movement. Though probably not as free as today. Maybe along the lines of what you have in some parts of Europe.

[CreamOfpumpkin]

Wow, I really found my home Nothing gets me in hot water chez moi faster than a good old language debate. I was looking up Moncton threads and stumbled upon this thread, boy I am excited. I spent the past hour reading the back and forth, so I hope I dont re harsh anything already gone over.
My credentials:I was born and raised in New Brunswick as an Anglophone with a French name. My Father's side is Brayon, and I have close relatives both in Quebec and France.I have spent a significant amount of time in both Quebec and France.I am married to a Quebecoise and have two daughters that speak English first but attend french school here in New Brunswick.I feel like I can add to this discussion as both a person with lots of experience in this subject matter and also as a person with strong love and respect for both official languages.
So, let's start off with a couple of not-so-unpopular opinions
The way Quebec goes about "protecting their culture" is borderline racist.And since we are jumping into the frying pan, how about, Quebec culture is more North American in practice than its self-proclaimed 'Quebec' culture.
Prove me wrong ...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CreamOfpumpkin

So, let's start off with a couple of not-so-unpopular opinions
The way Quebec goes about "protecting their culture" is borderline racist..

Welcome to the thread and bravo for the detailed personal intro, but I'd suggest doing better than an unsophisticated drive-by comment like that.

Unless you want to join a specific crowd on here that, alas, is quite numerous, but doesn't really have anything interesting to say.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CreamOfpumpkin

And since we are jumping into the frying pan, how about, Quebec culture is more North American in practice than its self-proclaimed 'Quebec' culture.
Prove me wrong ...

Again, this is a bit of a drive-by.

Quebec is clearly a North American culture, but it's more of its own variant on it that a carbon copy that just happens to use French as opposed to English.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quebec is clearly a North American culture, but it's more of its own variant on it that a carbon copy that just happens to use French as opposed to English.

Definitely a hybrid - mostly North American, but with a definite continental flare.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Definitely a hybrid - mostly North American, but with a definite continental flare.

BTW, even though we often disagree, you're definitely not one of those who have nothing interesting to say.

[CreamOfpumpkin]

It's casual racism, for instance. People outside of Montreal call it gross and a breeding ground for non-nationalists; bonjour-Hi in some eyes will always be disrespectful and not accommodating. Anyone that is not a Quebecois, that has spent a significant amount of time living there would tell you English natives are not accepted, they are tolerated. The amount of overreaching laws that have been passed in the last few years, in the name of language protection, is really sad and dare I say discriminatory. The people of Quebec have been made to believe that the English speakers are lining up at the boarders with flaming torches and pointy-tipped forks. Truth is, Quebec has more independence than it knows what to do with.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CreamOfpumpkin

It's casual racism, for instance. People outside of Montreal call it gross and a breeding ground for non-nationalists; bonjour-Hi in some eyes will always be disrespectful and not accommodating. Anyone that is not a Quebecois, that has spent a significant amount of time living there would tell you English natives are not accepted, they are tolerated. The amount of overreaching laws that have been passed in the last few years, in the name of language protection, is really sad and dare I say discriminatory. The people of Quebec have been made to believe that the English speakers are lining up at the boarders with flaming torches and pointy-tipped forks. Truth is, Quebec has more independence than it knows what to do with.

Ah, ok. This sounds more like a rant from one of those anglo rump protest parties than have sprung up recently.

But hey, there is a constituency and audience for this stuff on here, that's for sure.

You won't be alone in your corner!

[CreamOfpumpkin]

And.. please I know I may have come in a bit hot, but an honest discussion is all I am here for. There are plenty of things that anglos get wrong. I am not here to be disrespectful, I love being saddled with two cultures, and I am grateful that my children have two mother tongues. I just want to talk about some of the hypocrisies.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CreamOfpumpkin

And.. please I know I may have come in a bit hot, but an honest discussion is all I am here for. There are plenty of things that anglos get wrong. I am not here to be disrespectful, I love being saddled with two cultures, and I am grateful that my children have two mother tongues. I just want to talk about some of the hypocrisies.

No worries.

I definitely wouldn't call for censoring anyone on here, but I don't pull punches either.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Nowadays it's the Americans who agitate French minds. The French talk a lot about the Americans, often in clichés ways, and you hear lots of anti-American comments in daily life, said in the same cool and matter-of-fact way I heard in London regarding the French. You do not hear comments about the British, that's extremely rare, except for food like I said.

Yeah, that's it.

I think we've just never liked to be under the influence of any foreign power and today, France has to deal with 2 powers greater than hers.
The US and Germany, the latter being the largest economy of the Euro Union.

That being said, mean and gross comments usually come from the far left full of hatred.
Once in the media, I heard their leader Mélenchon call the Americans vultures just like that and no one said anything about it.
Suppose anybody would call the Algerians vultures over here, they would instantly be crucified as ugly racists all over the national media. But insulting the US doesn't seem to shock the French media so much, while I was like - wtf? vultures? You don't speak that way when you're a political character in this country.

Again, the insult came from the mouth of the far-left leader, so I guess they wouldn't even bother reacting to his enraged ranting.
We're used to outrageous statements from that guy anyway.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Again, this is a bit of a drive-by.

Quebec is clearly a North American culture, but it's more of its own variant on it that a carbon copy that just happens to use French as opposed to English.

I completely agree.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

BTW, even though we often disagree, you're definitely not one of those who have nothing interesting to say.

People may have spirited discussions, arguments really, without being disagreeable.

These discussions need not be overly adversarial.

A person holding an alternate point of view is not necessarily your enemy.

It is important to treat people, even those that you disagree with with respect.

You will likely not make your opponent fully change his mind, but you might be able to get him to see your point of view, and perhaps temper his opinion a bit.

You never know, you might even be able to reach an agreement, or an accommodation. This is the art of politics.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by CreamOfpumpkin

And since we are jumping into the frying pan, how about, Quebec culture is more North American in practice than its self-proclaimed 'Quebec' culture.
Prove me wrong ...

Of course Québec's culture is North American. What is it supposed to be otherwise? Asian? African? European it is not, people in Québec are quite different from Europeans (more friendly and easy going, less skeptical and cynical), and already were in 1760 (as noted by contemporary French visitors). But inside North America, Québec remains quite distinct nonetheless. Whether it be secularism, work-life balance, leftist politics, a more "communal" outlook and society, plus a different linguistic world and history, it's certainly very different from the rest of Anglophone North America. As someone famously said, "le Québec c'est l'Amérique en français". Nobody ever claimed it was "la France en Amérique", but it's certainly "l'Amérique en français".

Anyway, I think Charles Trénet summed it up well for a French audience in the 1950s already (cultural difference between France and French Canada as seen from French Canadian pharmacies):

• Video Link

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is serious talk of changing it:

https://www.lesoleil.com/2022/05/02/shir...a-reine-616983eff38c3518a1bc6917f38b3824

Well, it seems it won't be changed. Today Legault explicitly said he will not remove the office of lieutenant governor or challenge the position of the monarchy in Canada: https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebe...utenant-gouverneur-au-quebec-pour-la-caq

This guy seems rather cowardly. "Please keep me in power, I promise I won't touch anything." You're set to remain loyal subjects of His Majesty King Charles III then. When Australia becomes a republic, it will be so anachronistic to see Québec still ruled by Charles III...