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  #2601  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2022, 1:48 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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You are a very right-leaning individual for sure.
Compared to you, who isn't?
     
     
  #2602  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2022, 7:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I have mixed views on whether this makes a bright future for French in Montréal significantly more likely (in light of all the other pressures).
Here are some stats about language use in the Montréal metro area.

I have looked at the 1st official language used by people, which shows in which language community they integrate, in 2011 and 10 years later in 2021. Allophones means people whose mother tongue is neither French nor English.

Montréal metro area (2011 census >> 2021 census):
- Francophones and Allophones integrating in the French-speaking community: 73.1% >> 71.3%
- Allophones integrating in both the French and English-speaking communities: 5.2% >> 5.7%
- natively bilingual French and English speakers who use both languages equally: 0.5% >> 1.0%
- Anglophones and Allophones integrating in the English-speaking community: : 19.5% >> 20.4%
- people who can speak neither French nor English: 1.7% >> 1.6%

The percentage of Anglophones and Allophones integrating in the English-speaking community has definitely gone up. People who are either native French speakers using French as their #1 language, Allophones who integrate solely or equally in the French-speaking community, and native bilinguals who use French and English equally has gone from 78.8% in 2011 to 78.0% in 2021.

The census metro area in 2021 was geographically larger than in 2011, which means that these figures somehow blunt the real decline of French, because the far-away areas integrated in the Montréal metro area since 2011 must be predominantly French speaking. These areas contained 115,000 people in 2011. Without these areas, the number above went from 78.8% in 2011 to perhaps 77.5% in 2021.

To better understand these figures, this is the definition of 1st official language spoken. The 71.3% figure in 2021 above refers to people for whom French is the 1st official language spoken. The 78.0% figure in 2021 above refers to people for whom French is the 1st official language spoken + those for whom "English and French" is the 1st official language spoken. The 20.4% figure refers to those for whom English is the 1st official language spoken.
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First official language spoken is a derived variable. The derivation first takes into account the knowledge of the two official languages, second the mother tongue, and third the language spoken most often at home.

In the derivation, people who report in the knowledge of official languages question that they can conduct a conversation in French only are assigned 'French' as their first official language spoken. People who report that they can carry on a conversation in English only are assigned 'English' as their first official language spoken.

The responses to questions on mother tongue and language spoken most often at home are subsequently used to establish the first official language spoken by people who report speaking both English and French well enough to conduct a conversation, or who report that they cannot speak either of the two official languages. Specifically, the 'French' category includes people (not yet classified) who have a mother tongue of French only or of French and at least one non-official language. The 'English' category includes people (not yet classified) who have a mother tongue of English only or of English and at least one non-official language.

For cases that are not classified according to the preceding criteria, people are assigned to the 'French' category when they speak French only or French and at least one non-official language most often at home. People are assigned to the 'English' category when they speak English only or English and at least one non-official language most often at home.

People are assigned to 'English and French' when they speak both English and French well enough to conduct a conversation and when their mother tongues and languages spoken most often at home are both English and French or neither English nor French.

People are assigned to 'Neither English nor French' when they speak neither English nor French well enough to conduct a conversation and when their mother tongue and language spoken most often at home is a language other than English or French.
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  #2603  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2022, 8:10 PM
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I know what that means. I've heard it in Timmins.
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  #2604  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2022, 12:51 AM
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T'as-tu goûter une belle Québécoise?!? Ah, Sweet Virginie!
     
     
  #2605  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2022, 3:20 PM
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T'as-tu goûter une belle Québécoise?!? Ah, Sweet Virginie!
Bain Ouais!!
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  #2606  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2022, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mousquet View Post
Yeah, it means nothing to me either. I can't get a thing of the song.
She's overdoing her Canadian accent on purpose and her lyrics would leave you like - huh?

That's uninteresting. Either you speak some decent French and write some meaningful lyrics, or you sell your shit in English.
That's it.
You’ll love this one then…

P'tit Belliveau - Income Tax Return

Last edited by Nashe; Aug 28, 2022 at 8:59 PM.
     
     
  #2607  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2022, 8:54 PM
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I hadn't been in Quebec in years, but one thing struck me: the only difference between French Canadians in Ontario (majority who now speak English) vs Quebecois that I could see is the latter know how to dress.
     
     
  #2608  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2022, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by urbandreamer View Post
I hadn't been in Quebec in years, but one thing struck me: the only difference between French Canadians in Ontario (majority who now speak English) vs Quebecois that I could see is the latter know how to dress.
Are we getting a full analysis of that second leg of your cross-Canada trip (Quebec and the Maritimes)?

Last edited by le calmar; Aug 29, 2022 at 1:31 PM.
     
     
  #2609  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2022, 5:00 AM
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Originally Posted by urbandreamer View Post
I hadn't been in Quebec in years, but one thing struck me: the only difference between French Canadians in Ontario (majority who now speak English) vs Quebecois that I could see is the latter know how to dress.
That’s a strange observation. What communities in Ontario and Quebec did you observe how they dress?
     
     
  #2610  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2022, 6:45 AM
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The 'speak French at home' metric, insofar as it relates to MTL, is irrelevant.

More MTLers speak French now than ever. Only an idiot would move here thinking they don't have to speak French.

My gf is Colombian, moved here 13 years ago, learned French!

I moved here 9 years ago, learned French!

We both work in French, operate daily in French and hang out with our Franco/Hispano/Anglo friends in a flowing mixture of all three.

My gf can seamlessly flip from one to the other to the other.. I struggle with Spanish but am pretty proud of myself that I went from unilingual (non-immigrant) Onterriblan to multilingual MTLer and the ease with which I can just go with the flow. I can go from having a convo in English to instantly switching to a convo in French. And I can be funny in French - that's when you know you've won!

My gf and I speak mostly English at home but the degree that we mix the 3 languages is startling - sometimes we simply don't know our native language equivalent and find ourselves explaining in French to each other - it's awesome!

My point is.. more people may have spoken French 'at home' in the old days but there have never been more people people who speak French in MTL - ever - and it will increase to 100% eventually.

Like WTF? Why would you move here if you don't want to learn French?

Go literally 'anywhere else' in USA/Canada.
     
     
  #2611  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2022, 1:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post
That’s a strange observation. What communities in Ontario and Quebec did you observe how they dress?
Québecers don't wear Walmart sweaters with wolves on them. You can point out an Ontarian easily in any crowd. It was even a game we play as kids. Québecer or Ontarian.
     
     
  #2612  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2022, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by p_xavier View Post
Québecers don't wear Walmart sweaters with wolves on them. You can point out an Ontarian easily in any crowd. It was even a game we play as kids. Québecer or Ontarian.
I wouldn't go that far.

But one thing I do notice is that the way people dress maps onto socio-economic class a lot more in Quebec than it does in Ontario (or the ROC in general).

Dressing smartly* also seems to drill down deeper in Quebec than it does elsewhere, accounting for socio-economic classes.


*Though what constitutes dressing smartly can be a matter of opinion of course. And on this there are also Quebec-ROC differences. One thing I will say is that the percentage of people who pay attention to what they look like before going out of the house is generally higher in Quebec, even if the end result isn't always to everyone's taste.
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  #2613  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2022, 1:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I wouldn't go that far.

But one thing I do notice is that the way people dress maps onto socio-economic class a lot more in Quebec than it does in Ontario (or the ROC in general).

Dressing smartly* also seems to drill down deeper in Quebec than it does elsewhere, accounting for socio-economic classes.


*Though what constitutes dressing smartly can be a matter of opinion of course. And on this there are also Quebec-ROC differences. One thing I will say is that the percentage of people who pay attention to what they look like before going out of the house is generally higher in Quebec, even if the end result isn't always to everyone's taste.
Québecers eat better too and yes they tend to entertain a better look in general. I dress the same since I'm 14 so they can judge me all they want.

Last edited by p_xavier; Aug 29, 2022 at 4:55 PM.
     
     
  #2614  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2022, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by p_xavier View Post
Québecers eat better too and yes they tend to entertain a better look in general. I I dress the same since I'm 14 so they can judge me all they want.
Haha, I was just going to say that I feel way more judged and get treated differently in Quebec based on how I am dressed! (Compared to, say, Ontario or the ROC where people seem to care a lot less.)
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  #2615  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2022, 2:23 PM
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Broadly speaking, the continental sartorial spectrum goes from "football gambling henchman" to "Côte d'Azur yacht speculator", while the Anglo-American one goes from "obese adult baby" to "bank manager with golden retriever". Better and worse are subjective.
     
     
  #2616  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2022, 2:28 PM
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It is true that Europeans, and perhaps Quebecois, are more hesitant to, say, enter a nice restaurant in flip-flops. But this doesn't always look bad. It can be a very Malibu sort of thing, on the right person with the right mannerisms. And the Finnish guy who insists that sandals are improper, conversely, might sport navy New Balance and black socks instead, creating a very special needs kind of aesthetic with his hemmed cutoffs and fat pink legs.
     
     
  #2617  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2022, 2:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
creating a very special needs kind of aesthetic with his hemmed cutoffs and fat pink legs.


I appreciate your creative use of the language and your sense of humour.
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  #2618  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2022, 3:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
It is true that Europeans, and perhaps Quebecois, are more hesitant to, say, enter a nice restaurant in flip-flops. But this doesn't always look bad. It can be a very Malibu sort of thing, on the right person with the right mannerisms. And the Finnish guy who insists that sandals are improper, conversely, might sport navy New Balance and black socks instead, creating a very special needs kind of aesthetic with his hemmed cutoffs and fat pink legs.
Along those same lines, "paying attention to what you wear" can also mean a 55-year-old Québécoise wearing tight designer jeans with high heels and a cheap but flashy décolleté top she bought for $19.99 at Tigre Géant or L'Aubainerie.

As already stated, it might not be to everyone's taste but still it's definitely not the same as flip flops or white New Balance sneakers with white socks, loose fitting basketball shorts well below the knee, a t-shirt from some computer company and a ponytail tucked up under a baseball cap.
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  #2619  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2022, 5:13 PM
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Mainstreet poll out today caq 38 tories 21 liberals 17 Quebec solidaire 14
     
     
  #2620  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2022, 5:22 PM
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“PQ not in the top four” has got to be a first for at least a couple generations.
     
     
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