Edmonton Public Transit

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by kcantor

regardless of who required what, my point was that it hasn’t turned out worth a damn from a timing/delivery perspective. inside or outside the model that was dictated, my point was - and is - that some things could have/should have been done differently when it comes to ensuring timely delivery with a minimum of disruption to the very fabric of the city.

I believe the public will have concerns about the use of the P3 delivery model for large projects going forward. I would like to know what % of the contract price was paid at the time of the first notice of a delay and where we are today as a % 2 years after that and now a 3rd year of delays. Seems to me the TransEd has eaten the whole carrot and there is nothing left to incent them to complete the project - as the penalty's for being late have likely been negotiated away by incompetent City staff. Its all smoke from the City and mirrors from TransEd.

[Hardhatdan]

Originally Posted by kcantor

regardless of who required what, my point was that it hasn’t turned out worth a damn from a timing/delivery perspective. inside or outside the model that was dictated, my point was - and is - that some things could have/should have been done differently when it comes to ensuring timely delivery with a minimum of disruption to the very fabric of the city.

Just because you are cranky about it doesn't mean your suggestions actually make sense.
Making up scenarios that don't exist or wouldn't get agreed to is just day dreaming.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Hardhatdan

Just because you are cranky about it doesn't mean your suggestions actually make sense.
Making up scenarios that don't exist or wouldn't get agreed to is just day dreaming.

yes, i am the proverbial cranky old man.

and yes, i know the proverbial horse has already left the barn here.

as to whether all or even any of my suggestions make sense, i would come back to what we’re looking at here seven years plus in and still counting and ask if you think that’s acceptable and makes sense.

we all know the scenarios posited don’t exist and can’t be retroactively imposed.

as to whether they could be constructed contractually in a manner in which they would be agreed to by the contractors or not is debatable. what probably isn’t debatable is that the contracts that were constructed and the contractors’ performance under them (and the city’s performance - they’re both in this together) isn’t something that the other side would in hindsight have agreed to even though that’s what they enabled.

if we’re not going to day dream about better and more accountable ways to deliver projects successfully, aren’t we just living in einstein’s very definition of insanity?

[Rocket252]

With respect to the cracks found on the South LRT Pylons I can only quote MASH

1 part cement, 4 parts sand and 6 parts gravel

[Hardhatdan]

Originally Posted by kcantor

yes, i am the proverbial cranky old man.

and yes, i know the proverbial horse has already left the barn here.

as to whether all or even any of my suggestions make sense, i would come back to what we’re looking at here seven years plus in and still counting and ask if you think that’s acceptable and makes sense.

we all know the scenarios posited don’t exist and can’t be retroactively imposed.

as to whether they could be constructed contractually in a manner in which they would be agreed to by the contractors or not is debatable. what probably isn’t debatable is that the contracts that were constructed and the contractors’ performance under them (and the city’s performance - they’re both in this together) isn’t something that the other side would in hindsight have agreed to even though that’s what they enabled.

if we’re not going to day dream about better and more accountable ways to deliver projects successfully, aren’t we just living in einstein’s very definition of insanity?

I'm not interested in day dreaming.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Hardhatdan

I'm not interested in day dreaming.

too bad… you’ll never find out what you’re missing out on and neither will the rest of the world.

enjoy your box.

[Cloud 9]

Another screw up by the city on a major project. The list keeps getting longer…

[Coldrsx]

Statement from City Manager Andre Corbould on Valley Line Southeast project
August 10, 2022

City Manager Andre Corbould made the following statement in response to an announcement from TransEd that the Valley Line Southeast LRT line is delayed.

“TransEd has told Edmontonians the Valley Line Southeast LRT is delayed again, as they have identified problems with the concrete piers that support the elevated guideways.

“City Administration is deeply disappointed about this new delay. But we will not let that disappointment take us off course. We are committed to bringing a safe and reliable LRT service to Edmontonians, and we are holding TransEd accountable to fix this problem.

“TransEd is fully responsible for the costs of repairing the piers, and it continues to forfeit payments every month the system is not operational. Edmontonians’ financial interests are protected under the terms of the public-private partnership (P3) agreement for the project.

“This delay is a significant inconvenience to passengers who should have been enjoying the Valley Line Southeast from Mill Woods to downtown by now. The City will continue to provide frequent bus service in place of the LRT line, so people can still move around their city.

“We expect TransEd to make this right and have the line open for safe, reliable service as soon as possible.

“Information about the anticipated timing of the repairs, and service commencement, will be shared as it becomes available in the coming weeks.”


For more information:
edmonton.ca/ValleyLineSoutheast

Media contact:
Janice Schroeder
Communications and Engagement
780-920-4042

[Archyron]

Has anyone considered starting service on the LRT while service is underway? Presumably they've been testing on the tracks for months now and there is only a medium to long term safety risk.

[Coldrsx]

After hearing dozens of people speaking for and against the proposed Prairie Sky Gondola, executive committee pushed the decision on whether to approve a land agreement with the developers to next week’s city council meeting. The company has agreed to pay about $1.1 million annually to lease public property for the project, saying it would be 100% privately funded, not integrated with ETS, and meant to be running by 2026. Many questions were raised about whether the development would disturb the burial grounds on the Rossdale flats and what would happen if remains were discovered during construction. Mayor Amarjeet Sohi told Postmedia he couldn’t support the gondola without certainty that the burial sites would remain undisturbed, given the city’s commitment to reconciliation. Coun. Aaron Paquette also questioned whether Prairie Sky was committed to consulting with Indigenous communities or just determined to “get to ‘yes’.”

Taproot

[Hardhatdan]

Originally Posted by kcantor

too bad… you’ll never find out what you’re missing out on and neither will the rest of the world.

enjoy your box.

There's a difference between thinking, planning, exploring and just shooting off non sense... Right?

[stilicho]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

After hearing dozens of people speaking for and against the proposed Prairie Sky Gondola, executive committee pushed the decision on whether to approve a land agreement with the developers to next week’s city council meeting. The company has agreed to pay about $1.1 million annually to lease public property for the project, saying it would be 100% privately funded, not integrated with ETS, and meant to be running by 2026. Many questions were raised about whether the development would disturb the burial grounds on the Rossdale flats and what would happen if remains were discovered during construction. Mayor Amarjeet Sohi told Postmedia he couldn’t support the gondola without certainty that the burial sites would remain undisturbed, given the city’s commitment to reconciliation. Coun. Aaron Paquette also questioned whether Prairie Sky was committed to consulting with Indigenous communities or just determined to “get to ‘yes’.”

Taproot

I'm not certain the majority of those questioning this project are primarily concerned with First Nations burial grounds. It's instead what the demand is for such a route, how it competes with public transit, and third party risk assessment including city budget impact.

Your historical perspective in a previous post is much appreciated but I think you may have overestimated the success of specific projects peddled as, in many cases, both necessary and beneficial. We know about the eventual success of the CPR projects in developing Edmonton but that wasn't the original rail link. The first one was the Yukon and Pacific line which curiously linked Rossdale with Strathcona and wound around the HBC reserve towards what's now Westmount. The CPR was content with furnishing [Old] Strathcona with a link to the national rail system.

I'm not sure I can contain myself commenting on the impact of the Ghermezians on our city's political culture. "They killed downtown Edmonton" contains some nuggets of truth.

[Coldrsx]

^very much so; a shame that it was an either or scenario it seems, but regardless of my personal opinions on WEM, it was a definitive 'city building' moment in Edmonton's history and continues to be to this day.

[Coldrsx]

Structural issues on Edmonton's LRT line could add 6 months to construction time, says engineer

TransEd CEO Ronald Joncas says the company will have a new strategy within weeks

Natasha Riebe · CBC News

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-city-council-transed-valley-line-lrt-1.6549116

[GenWhy?]

So glad they're not doing a P3 for the other leg of the line. Good god I'll be dead by the time I ride this line

[Coldrsx]

https://twitter.com/cspotweet/status/1557822717650276353

[stilicho]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

....

I don't buy this argument whatsoever. If a stranger offers you candy you aren't compelled to take it and eat it.

Edmonton's professional bureaucrats and elected officials are the only people who have the capacity to exert oversight and to approve the budget. Without these actions any civic project is strangled in the cradle.

Just for once it would be wonderful for someone in the city to speak up and state plainly "I accept responsibility."

Yeah, call me a dreamer...

[Coldrsx]

Prairie Sky Gondola Announces Cree Name for the Project – ᐋᓱᐊᐧᐦᐅᓈᐣ (âsowahonân)

Chosen in a traditional naming ceremony, the name translates to “crossing of the river”

August 12, 2022 (Edmonton, AB) – Dr. Dwayne Donald, a professor in the Faculty of Education at the University of Alberta, a descendant of Papaschase Cree Nation and a ceremonial helper of Elder Bob Cardinal of the Enoch Cree Nation, announced the new name of Prairie Sky Gondola at a public meeting for Edmonton City Council’s Executive Committee on August 10, 2022.

ᐋᓱᐊᐧᐦᐅᓈᐣ

âsowahonân gondola

In English, âsowahonân translates to “crossing of the river.” In April of this year, the Cree name was given to the gondola during a sweat lodge ceremony at Enoch Cree Nation.

Indigenous engagement and participation in the project are of the highest importance to the gondola project and its proponents. Indigenous archeologist, Cody Sharphead, will lead as the archeological advisor for the project.

Jeffrey Hansen-Carlson, President and CEO of Prairie Sky Gondola, says: “We deeply respect the cultural importance of Rossdale Flats to Indigenous peoples and fully recognize that, as we work to move the project forward, sincere and robust Indigenous engagement is of paramount importance. Seeking guidance for the name of our project in ceremony is consistent with our unwavering intent to be proactive, genuine, and respectful.”

Prairie Sky Gondola is honoured to have been gifted an Indigenous name in ceremony and sees this as an early step in a journey towards a common purpose and advancing the cause of reconciliation.

[Coldrsx]

While public-private partnerships are “fundamentally flawed” when it comes to public transportation, the P3 model is not the reason for the latest delay of the Valley Line Southeast LRT, Coun. Tim Cartmell told CBC. Mayor Amarjeet Sohi called for a comprehensive review of how the city pursues P3 projects after TransEd announced the discovery of cracks in several piers that will further delay the opening of the line, which is already two years late. Cartmell, who is a structural engineer by trade, said the delay is the result of a design mistake, not the form of the contract, and he disagreed with Sohi that a P3 restricts the city’s oversight.

[Coldrsx]

Prairie Sky Gondola announced a Cree name for its project on Aug. 12, saying that âsowahonân — which translates to “crossing of the river” — was chosen in a traditional naming ceremony last April. Coun. Aaron Paquette was critical of the announcement over the weekend. “Today I witnessed a corporation take advantage of what is normally considered a sacred ceremony, a ceremony that many Indigenous people do not have access to due to the impacts of colonization, in the most cynical way possible and without certain permissions,” he tweeted. “It is unsettling.” Proposed land agreements between the City of Edmonton and Prairie Sky Gondola will be considered after executive committee heard from dozens of speakers last week about the project, many of whom spoke in opposition.