Edmonton Public Transit

[JSS1974]

I can see opening in the spring 2023

[Base]

Originally Posted by JSS1974

I can see opening in the spring 2023

I still think it gets done and open within the 2022 calendar year. They have to give us an updated date within the next week or two you have to think right?

[stilicho]

Originally Posted by JSS1974

I can see opening in the spring 2023

I was visiting somebody in Mill Woods earlier, took the 510X, and a few blocks south of Whyte observed a pedestrian strolling casually along the tracks.

Nobody here understands relatively slow moving trams but I think it's about to hit them.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by stilicho

I was visiting somebody in Mill Woods earlier, took the 510X, and a few blocks south of Whyte observed a pedestrian strolling casually along the tracks. Nobody here understands relatively slow moving trams but I think it's about to hit them.

I imagine we will see a few death's. "Every year, on his birthday, the man would sneak onto one of the GO Transit tracks and wait for a train. Each time, transit security got an alert and brought him to safety. Until the year they didn’t get there in time. That man was one of 90 people to die by suicide on Ontario’s GO network so far this decade, a grim tally that has accelerated dramatically this year for reasons no one can explain. There have been 17 deaths by suicide on GO tracks so far in 2019." https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/t...on-go-transit-tracks-spurs-metrolinx-to/

I wonder what Edmonton's death count is from the opening of the first line to this date?

[Coldrsx]

Good afternoon Your Worship and distinguished Councillors,

In the spirit of transparency, let me preface this letter with a declaration that I am a 'Class A' shareholder of this venture.

However, I did not make a very modest investment in this grassroots project because of an expected financial return, but rather because I believe that Edmonton can look past traditional transportation vernacular, methods of project delivery, work to develop more nimble partnerships and restore a belief of what this city can become.

Rather than providing additional rational as to why the land agreements, framework or fundamentals are well thought out, vetted and providing secure foundations for all involved, I would rather share more about the vision that I bought into and the potential community benefits from its realization.

Edmonton's best asset is its river valley. It is most treasured because of its ability to deliver a variety of experiences, be them natural, historical, sporting or leisure; this project can compliment the very essence of these diverse relationships with this special place and work to share it with more Edmontonians, on a more regular basis, with a very small environmental footprint.

Taking a risk is not the most Edmonton thing you can do; Council must consider exposure to its shareholders - the taxpayers and citizens of Edmonton. However, I ask you to consider some of the 'risky' decisions made since it became a city in 1904. Inherently, there was risk in all of the great projects that we now revel at and are fortunate to have had built over the years. Where would Edmonton be today without the Canadian Pacific Railway's High Level Bridge or Wop May & Max Ward's pioneering spirit to open up the north or provide Edmonton with international gateways. I think about the city builders, the Allard's and their contributions to media, technology, entertainment and the Arts or companies like Maclab who understood that their success from providing Edmontonians with homes was intrinsically paired with their philanthropy and desire to give back; to strengthen community. The Ghermezian's, the Day's, the Katz's and more recently the Beljan's of the world remind us that private ventures can leave lasting legacies for decades to come, enriching our natural and built environments in a respectful way.

This project has the potential to connect communities, provide accessible and sustainable transportation options to more citizens and deliver a unique experience for those that call Edmonton home and to those who visit.

As such, I ask that you consider supporting the vision that Gary and Amber Poliquin had from their winning submission to the Edmonton Project competition by way of this proposal and required land agreements, for I believe that 'Community is the most Edmonton thing you can do'.

Thank you for your time and consideration of the above.

Sincerely,

IanO

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

I imagine we will see a few death's. "Every year, on his birthday, the man would sneak onto one of the GO Transit tracks and wait for a train. Each time, transit security got an alert and brought him to safety. Until the year they didn’t get there in time. That man was one of 90 people to die by suicide on Ontario’s GO network so far this decade, a grim tally that has accelerated dramatically this year for reasons no one can explain. There have been 17 deaths by suicide on GO tracks so far in 2019." https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/t...on-go-transit-tracks-spurs-metrolinx-to/

I wonder what Edmonton's death count is from the opening of the first line to this date?

Weird way to die. The High Level Bridge used to be a suicidal dream, until they made it virtually impossible to jump from it nearly a decade ago.

[Coldrsx]

The City of Edmonton - Archives

[Rocket252]

^ Should have put George Jetson in the drivers seat.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by Rocket252

^ Should have put George Jetson in the drivers seat.

Looks like Seattle's monorail

[Hallsy's Toupee]

There's a rumor going around that the Valley Line LRT opening may be delayed until next year

https://twitter.com/ryanjespersen/status/1557062245162438658

[Coldrsx]

Councillor Knack chimes in the gondola.
https://andrewknack.ca/blog/gondola-update-august-2022

[JSS1974]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

There's a rumor going around that the Valley Line LRT opening may be delayed until next year

https://twitter.com/ryanjespersen/status/1557062245162438658

No surprise. This is what I thought all along.
First, I thought spring 2023. Now I’m betting fall 2023.

[Rocket252]

Maybe the gondola will be ready sooner than the LRT.

Is Edmonton the only city with 4 year projects taking 7 years to build?

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by Rocket252

Maybe the gondola will be ready sooner than the LRT.

Is Edmonton the only city with 4 year projects taking 7 years to build?

Look to Ottawa to find the answer

TransEd is providing a project update on Wednesday

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Rocket252

Maybe the gondola will be ready sooner than the LRT.

Is Edmonton the only city with 4 year projects taking 7 years to build?

i think one of the problems is that this was treated as a single project when in fact is was 20 or 30 or 40 connected but independent projects. when treated as one project, substantial completion for the whole thing doesn't take place until they're all done.

if the city accepted substantial completion for each one of them as soon as they were completed instead of accepting none of them until the end then the risk of component non-compliance with contracts and specifications and standards would be addressed earlier.

we also could have had sections like 102 avenue available for public use after 2 - 3 years instead waiting for 7 - 8. it would be in the contractor's best interests to complete individual pieces earlier as they would be paid earlier. it would be in individual neighborhood's best interests as they would suffer the necessary disruptions for as short a time as possible.

the city could use outside bonding from the contractor or structure overall contractual holdbacks for margins or general conditions to the end so there is still incentive to complete but where the consortium is also being paid to operate and that doesn't start until everything is commissioned and operating. even that could be incentivized with bonus and or penalty payments linked to commencement of service dates. at least if things are late, the city can operate/use its streets in the interim and the contractor can't use the entire system as leverage if it's only one component that needs to be addressed.

as it stands, the city gets it's warranties across the entire system starting at the end of the project if substantial completion for everything is deferred to the end. i think that's a false economy - there is no reason that the warranties should commence on substantial completion for each component and extend until the end of the first year following the completion of the last component.

[JSS1974]

Downtown businesses will continue to suffer with delays

[Hardhatdan]

Originally Posted by kcantor

i think one of the problems is that this was treated as a single project when in fact is was 20 or 30 or 40 connected but independent projects. when treated as one project, substantial completion for the whole thing doesn't take place until they're all done.

if the city accepted substantial completion for each one of them as soon as they were completed instead of accepting none of them until the end then the risk of component non-compliance with contracts and specifications and standards would be addressed earlier.

we also could have had sections like 102 avenue available for public use after 2 - 3 years instead waiting for 7 - 8. it would be in the contractor's best interests to complete individual pieces earlier as they would be paid earlier. it would be in individual neighborhood's best interests as they would suffer the necessary disruptions for as short a time as possible.

the city could use outside bonding from the contractor or structure overall contractual holdbacks for margins or general conditions to the end so there is still incentive to complete but where the consortium is also being paid to operate and that doesn't start until everything is commissioned and operating. even that could be incentivized with bonus and or penalty payments linked to commencement of service dates. at least if things are late, the city can operate/use its streets in the interim and the contractor can't use the entire system as leverage if it's only one component that needs to be addressed.

as it stands, the city gets it's warranties across the entire system starting at the end of the project if substantial completion for everything is deferred to the end. i think that's a false economy - there is no reason that the warranties should commence on substantial completion for each component and extend until the end of the first year following the completion of the last component.

Well,

It was specifically issued as a DBOFM P3 model because funding from other levels of Government required that.
The COE doesn't take anything for 25 years, the DBOFM take it from itself or whoever it decides to Subcontract it to. The COE enforces the specifications but for all we know it might be the financing partners making the construction portion replace non-compliant items so they aren't stuck with them failing after operation, thus knocking the line out of service for which I am sure there are even greater penalties.
There are penalties in the Contract for completion and incentives/penalties around operating payments.
The point about warranty is not realistic, no Contractor is going to take substantial completion + undefined period till the last person is complete + 12 months (or whatever period).

I think the deal was structured well enough, the principle is sound, but it missed missed the mark with the Downtown portion not deemed schedule critical.

In so much as a pandemic happened, there might be some good ol litigation happening behind the scenes on that, but I have to say that Transed looked completely over their head the entire time.
In the end it is a rail project and they have a long track record of going poorly and being fraught with litigation no matter who builds them or where.

[kcantor]

regardless of who required what, my point was that it hasn’t turned out worth a damn from a timing/delivery perspective. inside or outside the model that was dictated, my point was - and is - that some things could have/should have been done differently when it comes to ensuring timely delivery with a minimum of disruption to the very fabric of the city.

[RetiredGuy]

Either the press conference will squash the rumors or confirm the rumors about a gross delay. Hoping its the former but I suspect its not. Profound disappointment if its delayed until next year. It would be another kick in the balls for those of us who want public transit to thrive here. They cant blame the rock or the pandemic on this one.

[Coldrsx]

Sounds like structural issues on the piers around Davies Station.

FFS.