Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3 - Page 303

kwoldtimer · #**6041** Posted **Apr 27, 2022, 8:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Unclear. We should know more soon. They call it "tax neutral" and "self-financing", but that may mean the City of Ottawa should theoretically earn enough new tax revenue from the new residential/retail over 30 years to finance the updated sports facilities.

Fool me once, shame on you ...

craner · #**6042** Posted **Apr 27, 2022, 9:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Unclear. We should know more soon. They call it "tax neutral" and "self-financing", but that may mean the City of Ottawa should theoretically earn enough new tax revenue from the new residential/retail over 30 years to finance the updated sports facilities.

That’s exactly what it sounds like to me (i.e. City will be financing) sigh.

JustForTheHalibut · #**6043** Posted **Apr 27, 2022, 11:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Everything about it is fine except for the arena. That design and placement is just maddening. Well, a canopy over the north stands would be nice too.

I was just thinking last week about that TD Place arena underneath the north stands.

I'm a little surprised they are putting green roof arena so close to the CFL field too, why don't they just move it further east...

Also, I haven't played football for years my self but i'm surprised that they are building towers so close to the field, zero chance for expansion of the stadium and it's small by CFL standards to begin with. That west end highrise must be horrible for evening games when sun is causing huge shadows across the field. In and out of sun player performance must be affected.

JHikka · #**6044** Posted **Apr 28, 2022, 1:07 AM**

Cutting the arena's capacity in half is probably a wise move. Very rarely is that arena ever full for any event in its current iteration. I think I agree with most here that the placement is odd. I can only assume the arena would have a wide concourse/underground mall setup connecting it to retail, the towers, and underground parking. Could be a neat facility if done well, but given how the current Lansdowne arena turned out i'm not holding my breath.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

What will total capacity of the stadium be with the new north side stands? The south side stands are not that big iirc, maybe around 10,000? So total stadium capacity of around 22,000? Seems a bit on the small side if so.

RB crowds have naturally migrated down to 22K or so since the teams' inception.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

Also, I haven't played football for years my self but i'm surprised that they are building towers so close to the field, zero chance for expansion of the stadium and it's small by CFL standards to begin with.

It would be right around average for where CFL crowds are at these days. 20K would be fine, honestly.

elly63 · #**6045** Posted **Apr 28, 2022, 1:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

It would be right around average for where CFL crowds are at these days. 20K would be fine, honestly.

esquire · #**6046** Posted **Apr 28, 2022, 1:51 PM**

The RBs can get by with 22,000 seats, they can just jack up the price of each seat by a few dollars to offset the reduced capacity. But you would think Ottawa would want a stadium a bit bigger than that as a civic amenity for other events. 22,000 seats is like a Muncie, Indiana sized venue.

thewave46 · #**6047** Posted **Apr 28, 2022, 4:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

The RBs can get by with 22,000 seats, they can just jack up the price of each seat by a few dollars to offset the reduced capacity. But you would think Ottawa would want a stadium a bit bigger than that as a civic amenity for other events. 22,000 seats is like a Muncie, Indiana sized venue.

I think Ottawa doesn't want to go whole-hog on a stadium, because it's a hard sell. It's a venue that doesn't get a lot of use versus an arena, comparatively speaking. There's also competition for that dollar - a new Ottawa arena at Lebreton Flats will likely be asking for a chunk of change too.

JustForTheHalibut · #**6048** Posted **Apr 28, 2022, 5:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

It would be right around average for where CFL crowds are at these days. 20K would be fine, honestly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

I don't know why this caught my attention but what's in the water in Sasky that makes them more crazy for sports than Toronto. Sask Rush lacrosse team had higher attendance than the Argos precovid.

NLL attendance 2019, the last unaffected by covid

Acajack · #**6049** Posted **Apr 28, 2022, 5:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

I don't know why this caught my attention but what's in the water in Sasky that makes them more crazy for sports than Toronto. Sask Rush lacrosse team had higher attendance than the Argos precovid.

NLL attendance 2019, the last unaffected by covid

I do wish that the Argos had more fans, and Saskatchewan is pretty good about supporting sports, but I wouldn't say that Toronto is bad at supporting all sports. The Leafs, Raptors and Jays all get good support. It's tougher for Toronto FC and the Argos, though.

HomerSPC · #**6050** Posted **Apr 28, 2022, 5:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

I don't know why this caught my attention but what's in the water in Sasky that makes them more crazy for sports than Toronto. Sask Rush lacrosse team had higher attendance than the Argos precovid.

Saskatchewan as a whole has two professional sports teams: The Rush and the Riders. Toronto as a city has at least five: Leafs, Raptors, Jays, Argos, TFC, Rock (previously), Wolfpack(?)

WhipperSnapper · #**6051** Posted **Apr 28, 2022, 5:44 PM**

It's fair to say Toronto isn't as Football obsessed as Saskatchewan. The definition of sport gets broader and broader covering hundreds of disciplines. It would be too much work to create an algorithm to find out which city is more sport obsessed overall.

jonny24 · #**6052** Posted **Apr 28, 2022, 5:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerSPC

Saskatchewan as a whole has two professional sports teams: The Rush and the Riders. Toronto as a city has at least five: Leafs, Raptors, Jays, Argos, TFC, Rock (previously), Wolfpack(?)

Wolfpack went bankrupt, sold the IP to someone else who is trying to start again in a semi-pro US league.

However there is the Toronto Arrows, professional rugby union (WP is rugby league). Who has been getting around 2000 a game at York Lions.

Also there's York United.

JHikka · #**6053** Posted **Apr 28, 2022, 9:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

The RBs can get by with 22,000 seats, they can just jack up the price of each seat by a few dollars to offset the reduced capacity. But you would think Ottawa would want a stadium a bit bigger than that as a civic amenity for other events. 22,000 seats is like a Muncie, Indiana sized venue.

Comparing to US venues is always going to be a fool's errand. Jacking up prices in a smaller stadium is fine given the softened demand, and as long as the stadium is expandable for one-off events then I don't see the issue. What other civic events would Ottawa have that would require anything more than 22K?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

I don't know why this caught my attention but what's in the water in Sasky that makes them more crazy for sports than Toronto.

As others pointed out, Saskatchewan isn't more crazy for sports than Toronto. Supply & Demand. Saskatchewan might like gridrion more, but that's about it.

blueandgoldguy · #**6054** Posted **Apr 28, 2022, 10:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

I don't know why this caught my attention but what's in the water in Sasky that makes them more crazy for sports than Toronto. Sask Rush lacrosse team had higher attendance than the Argos precovid.

NLL attendance 2019, the last unaffected by covid

Nothing in the water. Saskatchewan is no more crazy for sports than any other province in the country.

See WHL team attendance for Saskatchewan teams.

See gradually declining attendance for the Rush after their first few seasons. You basically posted the evidence with the 2019 attendance. The 2 years prior they were they were drawing over 14,000. The year of COVID, their attendance was declining prior to the outbreak.

See Saskatchewan Roughriders. Two telethons to save the team in the 80s and 90s. Gradually declining attendance at New Mosaic each year.

blueandgoldguy · #**6055** Posted **Apr 28, 2022, 10:05 PM**

If they are going to downsize the new stand for the stadium at Lansdowne, and jack up the prices, i hope they justify this by having additional suites/club section/loge seats to replace some of the general seating.

JustForTheHalibut · #**6056** Posted **Apr 29, 2022, 12:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Nothing in the water. Saskatchewan is no more crazy for sports than any other province in the country.

See WHL team attendance for Saskatchewan teams.

See gradually declining attendance for the Rush after their first few seasons. You basically posted the evidence with the 2019 attendance. The 2 years prior they were they were drawing over 14,000. The year of COVID, their attendance was declining prior to the outbreak.

See Saskatchewan Roughriders. Two telethons to save the team in the 80s and 90s. Gradually declining attendance at New Mosaic each year.

wait, what? not sure what WHL attendance has to do with my comment. And if it does i'd bring up Winnipeg Ice attendance being less than what Cranbrook was getting.

I was only taking direct comparison of same year attendance for NLL in 2019 to CFL home game attendance in 2019 that elly63 posted, I wasn't trying to pull a fast one.

ok,.. I still feel like i'm getting whiplash,
but i'm suppose to what...telephone Roughriders what?,
they want something from the 80's back?

I didn't mean to say anything in my statement as a slight against Winnipeg or it's fine people, in any way, shape or form.

JHikka · #**6057** Posted **Apr 29, 2022, 12:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

wait, what? not sure what WHL attendance has to do with my comment. And if it does i'd bring up Winnipeg Ice attendance being less than what Cranbrook was getting.

??

Winnipeg Ice play in a literal garage. Their arena in Cranbrook was 3x the size.

esquire · #**6058** Posted **Apr 29, 2022, 2:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

??

Winnipeg Ice play in a literal garage. Their arena in Cranbrook was 3x the size.

Well, not quite literally, it is an arena, it just happens to be a small one

So that factor limits attendance.

The ICE's plan is to eventually build a new, larger rink to serve as their permanent home. But who really knows if or when that will ever happen.

Dalreg · #**6059** Posted **Apr 29, 2022, 4:27 AM**

Winnipeg seems to be butt hurt towards Saskatchewan. Guess they don't like all the jokes about them, or maybe they do?

For what it's worth, Ottawa will regret downsizing and hemming in the stadium even more than it already is.

elly63 · #**6060** Posted **Apr 29, 2022, 4:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I do wish that the Argos had more fans, and Saskatchewan is pretty good about supporting sports, but I wouldn't say that Toronto is bad at supporting all sports. The Leafs, Raptors and Jays all get good support. It's tougher for Toronto FC and the Argos, though.

I wouldn't say the Jays get consistent good support, they've had some lean times. I would say TFC doesn't do all that bad either. The new car smell is gone but they do ok, they've gone down a bit, but I think that is some of their fairweather fans who think the team is ManU at Old Trafford and got all offended by the management. Otherwise they're fine. I hope to see some improvement in the Argos with some normalization coming back to the world. I'm glad MLSE is there to pay the bills but they really have to shit or get off the pot concerning the Argos.