The US Census Bureau thread

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think what we see now is as merged as they'll get for the foreseeable future. The anti-sprawl policies won't allow them to merge more.

If this Corridor were growing fast, en route to reach 3 million people, even without more sprawl, the simple densification would help to make the NY-PHL stronger as there would be more people living and working between them, with commute going into every direction.

However, with this 100,000 people growth/decade, we shouldn't hold our breath. Nothing to see.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Yuri

If this Corridor were growing fast, en route to reach 3 million people, even without more sprawl, the simple densification would help to make the NY-PHL stronger as there would be more people living and working between them, with commute going into every direction.

However, with this 100,000 people growth/decade, we shouldn't hold our breath. Nothing to see.

There would need to be housing for it to grow. New Jersey won't allow greenfield development for housing, so any new housing will go into existing urban footprints. The two urban areas won't merge further merge without that.

It's not a bad thing, though. Cutting off the sprawl spigot is why NYC is still growing, and Philadelphia is starting to grow again.

[Docere]

Noticed that in Wisconsin, Dane County (Madison) is the fastest-growing county in the state, while Milwaukee County is declining in population. I wonder what ultimately has a bigger political impact.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Docere

Noticed that in Wisconsin, Dane County (Madison) is the fastest-growing county in the state, while Milwaukee County is declining in population. I wonder what ultimately has a bigger political impact.

considering that they're the two most populous and politcally bluest counties in the state, my guess is that, on balance, it doesn't change a whole lot, other than some bruised egos in milwaukee where their city continues its post-industrail slide while upstart madison is one of the fattest grwoing places in the midwest.

[Docere]

Report on the growth of Madison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbqiL3AMy-A

[Steely Dan]

^ back in 1990, the madison MSA was roughly 1/3 the size of the milwaukee MSA.

as of 2020, it's closing in on the halfway mark.


year: milwaukee | madison | ratio

1990: 1,432,149 | 462,662 | 3.1:1

2020: 1,574,731 | 680,796 | 2.3:1



if growth trends stay somewhat consistent from last decade, the madison MSA will likely be 50% of the size of milwaukee in 2030.

[Crawford]

Madison I get, bc you have a huge, well-regarded university, pretty lakes, and the surrounding landscape is kind of different. University towns in the U.S. are usually outperformers. And it's practically the only deep blue option in WI outside of Milwaukee proper.

I just think there's some randomness to the relative appeal of some towns over others. But Madison is the total package for a university town.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

And it's practically the only deep blue option in WI outside of Milwaukee proper.

in fact, in the 2020 election, Madison's Dane county was the bluest major county* in the entire midwest, beating out cook county by a percentage point (75.5% vs. 74.3%).

"The People's Republic of Madison" is a thing for a reason.



(*) there are a small handful of very sparsely populated counties in the midwest that are more or less coterminous with native american reservations that went over 80% blue, but these are absolutely tiny counties that registered fewer than 3,000 total votes.

[Yuri]

To me, Milwaukee seems a much more interesting city than Madison. Beautiful urban architecture and apparently a better nightlife.

[Docere]

Madison does seem pretty ideal for a certain demographic. Nice setting and just about the right balance between university town and fairly sizeable urban center.

Looks like Madison and Champaign-Urbana are both about 2 hours from Chicago. UW Madison and UIUC are two big state universities of a similar level of prestige. While Madison is the college town par excellence (don't know much about Champaign-Urbana - I can't help but think of it as a fairly unremarkable university town surrounded by cornfields), obviously UIUC is a more affordable option for those from the Chicago area.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Yuri

To me, Milwaukee seems a much more interesting city than Madison. Beautiful urban architecture and apparently a better nightlife.

IMO, milwaukee is much more of a real city, and madison is more of a very successful, uber-liberal university town.

but madison has been legit densifying its core. some of the densest tracts in the entire midwest outside of chicago are now located on the isthmus (we're talking 3 tracts home to some 21,000 people all with densities over 45,000 ppsm, which is crazy dense out here in the land of infinite land).

chisoxrox posted the data somewhere way back in this thread back when census 2020 results came out last august.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Docere

While Madison is the college town par excellence (don't know much about Champaign-Urbana - I can't help but think of it as a fairly unremarkable university town surrounded by cornfields),

it's definitely no madison, but it's alright for what it is. i've been to worse college towns.

newish highrise developemnt in "campustown" has given it a bit more of a "city feel": https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1103252,...xu8nt19zjdbEH2QPU_FEg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192



but yeah, it's stuck right there in the very thick of the great cornbelt: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1514512,-88.2411199,181135a,35y,0h/data=!3m1!1e3

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

IMO, milwaukee is much more of a real city, and madison is more of a very successful, uber-liberal university town.

but madison has been legit densifying its core. some of the densest tracts in the entire midwest outside of chicago are now located on the isthmus (we're talking 3 tracts home to some 21,000 people all with densities over 45,000 ppsm, which is crazy dense out here in the land of infinite land).

chisoxrox posted the data somewhere way back in this thread back when census 2020 results came out last august.

Yeah, I hear they're pretty much perfect. But that's the problem to me: too perfect, too clean and too dull I'm afraid.

But definitely: much better them than some Orlando suburb.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Yeah, I hear they're pretty much perfect. But that's the problem to me: too perfect, too clean and too dull I'm afraid.

yeah, it might not be your cup of tea then.

if you ever find yourself in wisconsin, head to milwaukee.

not that madison is literally "perfect", but i know what you mean.

there's also an annoying attitude you can sometimes find in places like madison where some believe that their 🞵🞵🞵🞵 doesn't stink, when in reality they simply don't have a whole lot of 🞵🞵🞵🞵 in the first place.

there's an awful lot of good old fashioned good fortune propping up that smug "aren't we just wonderful!!!" attitude.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

yeah, it might not be your cup of tea then.

if you ever find yourself in wisconsin, head to milwaukee.

not that madison is literally "perfect", but you i know what you mean.

there's also an annoying attitude you can sometimes find in places like madison where some believe that their 🞵🞵🞵🞵 doesn't stink, when in reality they simply don't have a whole lot of 🞵🞵🞵🞵 in the first place.

there's an awful lot of good old fashioned good fortune propping up that "aren't we just wonderful!!!" attitude.

This. I have some grudge against city boosterism as well. Like Nashville, Austin, Denver, Portland or Seattle are supposed to be better than all the rest. I could otherwise like these cities but I'm repelled for this attitude.

[RST500]

Below is foreign born immigrants to each of the metro areas. One column for those that entered between 2000 and 2010, one for 2010 to 2020, and one for the difference between the two.

Of the 27 metro areas in the US that have more than 250,000 immigrants, only 8 attracted more international immigrants between 2010 and 2020 than they did between 2000 and 2010: Boston, San Jose, Detroit, Seattle, Orlando, Houston, Tampa, and Miami/Fort Lauderdale. Two others, Charlotte and Austin, practically broke even.

Entered between 2000 and 2010
New York City: 1,359,322
Los Angeles: 887,517
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 625,175
Houston: 430,595
Washington DC: 418,569
Chicago: 411,668
Dallas/Fort Worth: 384,811
San Francisco: 336,927
Atlanta: 241,435
Boston: 227,983
Seattle/Tacoma: 206,238
Riverside/San Bernardino: 197,580
San Jose: 174,466
San Diego: 173,378
Phoenix: 167,742
Las Vegas: 128,469
Orlando: 118,589
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 118,188
Tampa: 109,541
Sacramento: 106,422
Detroit: 99,635
Denver: 98,039
Austin: 91,839
Baltimore: 85,993
Charlotte: 80,654
Portland, OR: 78,980
San Antonio: 70,720

Entered between 2010 and 2020
New York City: 1,192,921
Los Angeles: 631,061
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 627,969
Houston: 447,929
Dallas/Fort Worth: 354,450
Washington DC: 353,151
San Francisco: 310,433
Chicago: 294,053
Boston: 280,317
Seattle/Tacoma: 232,527
Atlanta: 215,214
San Jose: 205,164
Phoenix: 143,385
Orlando: 144,333
San Diego: 140,643
Detroit: 127,944
Tampa: 115,594
Riverside/San Bernardino: 111,914
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 103,075
Austin: 90,750
Sacramento: 90,889
Las Vegas: 89,892
Charlotte: 80,543
Denver: 78,572
Portland, OR: 73,197
Baltimore: 72,542
San Antonio: 63,040

Increase or Decrease in Immigration between last decade vs. the decade before
Boston: 52,334
San Jose: 30,689
Detroit: 28,309
Seattle/Tacoma: 26,289
Orlando: 25,744
Houston: 17,334
Tampa: 6,053
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 2,794

Charlotte: -111
Austin: -1,089
Portland, OR: -5,783
San Antonio: -7,680
Baltimore: -13,451
Minneapolis/St. Paul: -15,113
Sacramento: -15,533
Denver: -19,737
Phoenix: -24,087
Atlanta: -26,221
San Francisco: -26,494
Dallas/Fort Worth: -30,361
San Diego: -32,735
Las Vegas: -38,577
Washington DC: -65,418
Riverside/San Bernardino: -85,666
Chicago: -117,635
New York City: -166,401
Los Angeles: -256,486

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by RST500

Below is foreign born immigrants to each of the metro areas. One column for those that entered between 2000 and 2010, one for 2010 to 2020, and one for the difference between the two.

Of the 27 metro areas in the US that have more than 250,000 immigrants, only 8 attracted more international immigrants between 2010 and 2020 than they did between 2000 and 2010: Boston, San Jose, Detroit, Seattle, Orlando, Houston, Tampa, and Miami/Fort Lauderdale. Two others, Charlotte and Austin, practically broke even.

Entered between 2000 and 2010
New York City: 1,359,322
Los Angeles: 887,517
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 625,175
Houston: 430,595
Washington DC: 418,569
Chicago: 411,668
Dallas/Fort Worth: 384,811
San Francisco: 336,927
Atlanta: 241,435
Boston: 227,983
Seattle/Tacoma: 206,238
Riverside/San Bernardino: 197,580
San Jose: 174,466
San Diego: 173,378
Phoenix: 167,742
Las Vegas: 128,469
Orlando: 118,589
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 118,188
Tampa: 109,541
Sacramento: 106,422
Detroit: 99,635
Denver: 98,039
Austin: 91,839
Baltimore: 85,993
Charlotte: 80,654
Portland, OR: 78,980
San Antonio: 70,720

Entered between 2010 and 2020
New York City: 1,192,921
Los Angeles: 631,061
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 627,969
Houston: 447,929
Dallas/Fort Worth: 354,450
Washington DC: 353,151
San Francisco: 310,433
Chicago: 294,053
Boston: 280,317
Seattle/Tacoma: 232,527
Atlanta: 215,214
San Jose: 205,164
Phoenix: 143,385
Orlando: 144,333
San Diego: 140,643
Detroit: 127,944
Tampa: 115,594
Riverside/San Bernardino: 111,914
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 103,075
Austin: 90,750
Sacramento: 90,889
Las Vegas: 89,892
Charlotte: 80,543
Denver: 78,572
Portland, OR: 73,197
Baltimore: 72,542
San Antonio: 63,040

Increase or Decrease in Immigration between last decade vs. the decade before
Boston: 52,334
San Jose: 30,689
Detroit: 28,309
Seattle/Tacoma: 26,289
Orlando: 25,744
Houston: 17,334
Tampa: 6,053
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 2,794

Charlotte: -111
Austin: -1,089
Portland, OR: -5,783
San Antonio: -7,680
Baltimore: -13,451
Minneapolis/St. Paul: -15,113
Sacramento: -15,533
Denver: -19,737
Phoenix: -24,087
Atlanta: -26,221
San Francisco: -26,494
Dallas/Fort Worth: -30,361
San Diego: -32,735
Las Vegas: -38,577
Washington DC: -65,418
Riverside/San Bernardino: -85,666
Chicago: -117,635
New York City: -166,401
Los Angeles: -256,486

The 2020 - 2030 numbers are going to be horrific.

[Steely Dan]

Where's Philly?

I think it got erroneously omitted

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The 2020 - 2030 numbers are going to be horrific.

Glad we don't have a worker shortage, or a low birth rate, or depopulated regions...

On a positive note, Biden (finally!) rescinded the pandemic-era immigration restrictions, so inflow should be at pre-Covid levels within weeks and pre-2016 levels eventually.

[bossabreezes]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

There would need to be housing for it to grow. New Jersey won't allow greenfield development for housing, so any new housing will go into existing urban footprints. The two urban areas won't merge further merge without that.

It's not a bad thing, though. Cutting off the sprawl spigot is why NYC is still growing, and Philadelphia is starting to grow again.

Is this actually a thing? I can’t imagine the entire state agreeing to something like that.

Also, if so- NJ is already arguably in the top 3 unaffordable states. If this is real, Real Estate costs will skyrocket even more. The northern half of the state is highly unaffordable and property tax burdens are downright scary.