PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

As much as I hate surface parking lots, I would guess that they are more efficient traffic-wise in moving large numbers of vehicles in and then out over a very short time span. Multi-story parking garages would introduce more of a bottleneck.

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
It is...since there's multiple entries/exits to get on the surrounding roads in a surface lot. Parking structures don't work when everyone wants to leave at the same time after the game.

Agree and disagree at the same time. Many major cities have great development and entertainment complexes around their stadiums. If they can develop around their stadiums, why can't we when we have THREE all in one place and FOUR major sports teams all in one place? Philadelphia should have one of the best and coolest Stadium Districts in the country. Instead, we have a lame sea of surface parking lots.

I think there is a way to properly develop some of the parking lots, while leaving some of them intact. All new development will have garages that service the public as well. Therefore, the area would still have surface parking lots and many added spots in garages, and the area wouldn't be dead after sporting events or concerts.

Something quick I drew up in Google Maps - all of the red blocks serve as sites that can be developed:


Screen Shot 2022-03-11 at 10.47.00 AM by Mr. Summers, on Flickr

[iheartphilly]

^
I think if the Navy Yard is fully built out and companies want to be located in the same vicinity or next to i-95, then this is a viable option to develop.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Blatant spot zoning. Gauthier knew the contract was expiring with the land owners. She had plenty of time to either come to an agreement with him, or instead arrange for some new public housing to be constructed elsewhere.

I know it was symbolic, but thank God for Allen Domb. One of the few voices of reason on the Council anymore.

Yep. Our city government is a complete crock of 🞵🞵🞵🞵. This is obvious spot zoning. I'm pretty certain this is illegal. I really hope the city and Gauthier gets raked over the coals in court. We've proven time and time again that Philadelphia doesn't have an affordability issue... in fact, it's one of the cheapest housing markets IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES. The problem is JOBS, and Gauthier wants to block jobs from coming to the city???

I 100% get that people are being displaced, but these townhomes are absolutely awful and outdated. I agree with you completely McGrath that the city should have been working to find NEW, suitable and actually live-able housing elsewhere in the city for these residents, or came to an agreement with the land owner to sell to someone who is planning a MIX of housing (where affordable housing could be mixed in) and lab/life sciences space.

Once again, a perfect example of our City leadership being completely incompetent and trying to do all the wrongs things and point fingers at all the wrong people to try to cover up their incompetence and fix their mistakes.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Agree and disagree at the same time. Many major cities have great development and entertainment complexes around their stadiums. If they can develop around their stadiums, why can't we when we have THREE all in one place and FOUR major sports teams all in one place? Philadelphia should have one of the best and coolest Stadium Districts in the country. Instead, we have a lame sea of surface parking lots.

I think there is a way to properly develop some of the parking lots, while leaving some of them intact. All new development will have garages that service the public as well. Therefore, the area would still have surface parking lots and many added spots in garages, and the area wouldn't be dead after sporting events or concerts.

Something quick I drew up in Google Maps - all of the red blocks serve as sites that can be developed:


Screen Shot 2022-03-11 at 10.47.00 AM by Mr. Summers, on Flickr

Many of those other stadiums are built in the heart of the city surrounding office buildings and within striking distances to nearby neighborhoods. If they could build more residential highrises around our stadium complex, it could support your theory and the rest will follow. But as of now, our stadium complex mind as well be on an island of its own.

[DeltaNerd]

For the stadium district, there is a height limit because of the airport correct?

As for building, we definitely build office towers, condos, and apartments high as we can per FAA. I think another hotel in the area would be a boost too.

[PHLtoNYC]

Small update on the U City townhomes. Heading to Federal Court.

Not at the expense of the current tenants, but I hope the court decides in favor the land owner and tells the city to 🞵🞵🞵🞵 an egg.

Council can mandate the owner relocate tenants or include an affordable housing component in the new development, but why stop a legal and non-secretive sale proceeding? To add to other poster responses, this situation shows the obvious incompetence, gaslighting, and regressive thinking from leadership.

Developer filing suit over City Council vote to block sale of affordable rentals in University City

https://whyy.org/articles/developer-fili...XI2KjAory5gL0RBpn5GCfDn8HnzZpIr-QrSVsxZg

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Yep. Our city government is a complete crock of 🞵🞵🞵🞵. This is obvious spot zoning. I'm pretty certain this is illegal. I really hope the city and Gauthier gets raked over the coals in court. We've proven time and time again that Philadelphia doesn't have an affordability issue... in fact, it's one of the cheapest housing markets IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES. The problem is JOBS, and Gauthier wants to block jobs from coming to the city???

I 100% get that people are being displaced, but these townhomes are absolutely awful and outdated. I agree with you completely McGrath that the city should have been working to find NEW, suitable and actually live-able housing elsewhere in the city for these residents, or came to an agreement with the land owner to sell to someone who is planning a MIX of housing (where affordable housing could be mixed in) and lab/life sciences space.

Once again, a perfect example of our City leadership being completely incompetent and trying to do all the wrongs things and point fingers at all the wrong people to try to cover up their incompetence and fix their mistakes.

Just because you can buy a crumbling row home in a far flung north philly neighborhood for a song, doesn't mean Philadelphia doesn't have a rapidly exploding affordability crisis. I mean, have you missed the last 30 years of exploding housing costs of anything even remotely near center city?

Imagine telling someone who's lived in one of these townhomes that there's not an affordability crisis lol. Sure you can stay in Philly, there's a place in Fairhill within your budget. I mean honestly, you might as well be asking them to move to a different city. The amount of people being displaced IS a problem. Affordability is a problem. And it's only getting worse.

Listen it's great that Philly is improving, but now is the time to start to think about displacement and affordability and put programs in place to ease these issues.

At the same time though, I disagree with what councilwoman Gauthier is doing here. Those townhomes are out of place and are at an inappropriate density considering where they are located directly on top of a subway stop. They need to be replaced and the sooner the better. Why spend so much time restricting what the owner can build and how the buildings can be used and this and that?

There are 70 affordable units in the current development. It would be so easy to just require the owner incorporate 70 affordable units in the new development. Even better, encourage them to build even taller and denser and give them zoning bonuses for incorporating even more affordable units.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
I think if the Navy Yard is fully built out and companies want to be located in the same vicinity or next to i-95, then this is a viable option to develop.

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Many of those other stadiums are built in the heart of the city surrounding office buildings and within striking distances to nearby neighborhoods. If they could build more residential highrises around our stadium complex, it could support your theory and the rest will follow. But as of now, our stadium complex mind as well be on an island of its own.

Well, not saying this will all happen at once... however, we're a major city and major metropolitan area. We should be able to build up both the Navy Yard and the "Stadium District" simultaneously. Start with the areas along Pattison Ave. between Xfinity Live and Broad Street, and Citizens Bank Park and Broad Street and build out from there.

I fully understand a lot of other cities have one stadium close to neighborhoods or Downtown, and that's why it's been a little bit easier to build up districts around them... however, we do have a huge asset in having 3 stadiums and 4 major sports teams all within a couple blocks of each other. On top of that, Philly Live! Casino, easy access to I-95, I-76, public transit via the Broad Street Line, and close access to the Airport and the Port. Also a short walk to the soon to be newly rehabbed FDR Park?? We should be able to pretty easily build up this area with a concerted effort.

Some highrises - some midrises - some lowrises. Doesn't need to be all offices either...

Imagine a mix of residential buildings, hotels and office space.
Imagine retail and shops - could even build an outdoor type mall or Outlet Mall.
Imagine restaurants, clubs, bars, sports betting venues.
Build one or two smaller concert venues.
Build the Fusion Arena.
What ever happened to that Philadelphia Wax Museum? Build it here.
What ever happened to the Philadelphia Sports Museum? Build it here.
What about the Simeone foundation Automotive Museum? Move it here and give it a proper museum and venue for it's impressive collection rather than be tucked away in some far flung industrial area of the city.

There's a ton of possibilities to make it an awesome district and area of the city and tourist destination year-round.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by allovertown

There are 70 affordable units in the current development. It would be so easy to just require the owner incorporate 70 affordable units in the new development. Even better, encourage them to build even taller and denser and give them zoning bonuses for incorporating even more affordable units.

This.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Just because you can buy a crumbling row home in a far flung north philly neighborhood for a song, doesn't mean Philadelphia doesn't have a rapidly exploding affordability crisis. I mean, have you missed the last 30 years of exploding housing costs of anything even remotely near center city?

Imagine telling someone who's lived in one of these townhomes that there's not an affordability crisis lol. Sure you can stay in Philly, there's a place in Fairhill within your budget. I mean honestly, you might as well be asking them to move to a different city. The amount of people being displaced IS a problem. Affordability is a problem. And it's only getting worse.

Listen it's great that Philly is improving, but now is the time to start to think about displacement and affordability and put programs in place to ease these issues.

At the same time though, I disagree with what councilwoman Gauthier is doing here. Those townhomes are out of place and are at an inappropriate density considering where they are located directly on top of a subway stop. They need to be replaced and the sooner the better. Why spend so much time restricting what the owner can build and how the buildings can be used and this and that?

There are 70 affordable units in the current development. It would be so easy to just require the owner incorporate 70 affordable units in the new development. Even better, encourage them to build even taller and denser and give them zoning bonuses for incorporating even more affordable units.

I get it. I understand. It's upsetting when anybody is displaced. We should be working to correct that as a city. My main ire is directed at the good majority of our city government and their sheer level of incompetence. They knew the subsidized housing contract was about to expire, and could've been working for the past several years to have homes or rental properties built on any of the hundreds and thousands of empty lots the city itself owns across the city. The city could even start a rent to own program to help these residents become HOMEOWNERS instead of renters so they're less likely to be replaced in the future. They don't have to move to Fairhill. What about Mantua? It's blocks away from 39th and Market, is more residential and there are a dearth of empty lots there... many of which the city itself owns. What about Haverford North? What about Belmont?

You can't just require an owner of a singular parcel to do something specific with their property unless it's zoned for that. That's called spot zoning and may actually be illegal. How do you propose the developer secure financing to build 70 affordable homes? They would need substantial subsidies and tax breaks to make the numbers pencil out.

The fact of the matter is that it's a lowrise, suburban, garden style apartment complex in the middle of a bustling and dense urban fabric that's exploding with growth. The property also sits on top of a transit line and is on a Main city thoroughfare. The property owner kept up his end of the bargain by keeping it affordable housing for 30 years, and now he's looking to sell it to redevelop it in a booming life sciences market.

I think there could be a mix of housing, lab/life sciences space and retail in this project. It's a huge parcel and could accommodate two large buildings. Any residential uses could even have some subsidized units here... but I doubt 70.

The fact of the matter is that the city F'ed up here, and didn't properly plan accordingly to replace these residents. Now, they're trying to place blame on others and point fingers at everybody else for their own screw up, and are trying to block development from happening and keep the property abandoned.

Lastly... Philadelphia does not have an affordability problem. It has a job and income problem. Show me one major city in the country... no, show me one major city in the world where you can afford to live close to the city center on a lower class or working class income? I'll wait.... every major city requires at least upper-middle if not upper class incomes to live in and around the city core. The neighborhoods in and around Center City SHOULD be expensive, and in fact are still pretty affordable comparatively to the majority of other major cities in the country and the world. Case in point:

Zillow 100 Largest US Cities by Typical Home Price, February 2022
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250118

100 Most Populous U.S. Metros: February 2022 vs February 2020 by share of $1 million+ homes
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250304

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Well, not saying this will all happen at once... however, we're a major city and major metropolitan area. We should be able to build up both the Navy Yard and the "Stadium District" simultaneously. Start with the areas along Pattison Ave. between Xfinity Live and Broad Street, and Citizens Bank Park and Broad Street and build out from there.

I fully understand a lot of other cities have one stadium close to neighborhoods or Downtown, and that's why it's been a little bit easier to build up districts around them... however, we do have a huge asset in having 3 stadiums and 4 major sports teams all within a couple blocks of each other. On top of that, Philly Live! Casino, easy access to I-95, I-76, public transit via the Broad Street Line, and close access to the Airport and the Port. Also a short walk to the soon to be newly rehabbed FDR Park?? We should be able to pretty easily build up this area with a concerted effort.

Some highrises - some midrises - some lowrises. Doesn't need to be all offices either...

Imagine a mix of residential buildings, hotels and office space.
Imagine retail and shops - could even build an outdoor type mall or Outlet Mall.
Imagine restaurants, clubs, bars, sports betting venues.
Build one or two smaller concert venues.
Build the Fusion Arena.
What ever happened to that Philadelphia Wax Museum? Build it here.
What ever happened to the Philadelphia Sports Museum? Build it here.
What about the Simeone foundation Automotive Museum? Move it here and give it a proper museum and venue for it's impressive collection rather than be tucked away in some far flung industrial area of the city.

There's a ton of possibilities to make it an awesome district and area of the city and tourist destination year-round.

The conceptual plan for the Stadium District is a start. If developers can find demand and can pitch to investors and investment banks that it has a high probability of success, then we will surely see it get funding and then one development will start followed by the next and next as momentum builds on the previous.

[summersm343]

Changes Coming For Chained-off Chinatown Greyhound Station?

Current site:

Thanks to one of our intrepid readers, we heard rumblings that action was taking place on this surface lot at 1018-24 Arch St., on the north side of the bus depot. Buses have recently been rerouted to Cuthbert Street to eliminate the need for the Arch Street entrance, which we noticed is now chained off.

While no permits have been issued to date, we do know that this property was purchased by “a local private investor” back in 2019 for $7.8M as part of a multi-parcel sale. That’s no small potatoes for a surface lot and leads us to believe we may see something substantial rise here. With its CMX-5 zoning, we’d venture a guess that an apartment tower will be the plan, or potentially a hotel given its distance to the Pennsylvania Convention Center.

Read/view more here:
https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/c...-chained-off-chinatown-greyhound-station

[skyhigh07]

I chuckle when people talk about affordability and displacement in Philly. It’s not like people are being thrown out on the streets. When I was living in a hole the wall in Manhattan my rent went up significantly every year - not to mention the ridiculous initial broker fees that now thankfully have been outlawed (was totally a scam). It got to the point between eating and making rent. I learned how to make tortillas because all I had in my cupboard was flour (great way to lose weight though). This went on for a few years until I had to move to Queens and get a roommate. Eventually, I moved out of the city altogether to save and regroup. That’s life. Nothing is guaranteed, whether it be relationships, jobs, happiness or where you prefer to live. It’s not the ideal reality we live in, but we all contribute to it in one way or another. I’m all for a social safety net, but I understand things change and those changes force one to make new decisions. That’s how we grow.

Believe it or not, there are areas of the city that are affordable and actually losing population. Not to mention other towns across the state and country. It’s not like we live in Luxembourg lol. Anyways thats just my two cents.

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by McBane

Cool drawings but come on, this is a pipe dream. Literally. If it's such an amazing opportunity, then why is the current owner selling? Also, these drawings assume upzoning the property and I find it odd that the seller isn't going through the trouble themselves of upzoning the property in order to fetch a higher asking price. Flippers do this all the time in Center City and that the current owner hasn't attempted to upzone this property tells me that they don't have much faith in this concept. On the other hand, it's not super expensive to create these conceptual drawings if it can inflate the price by even a little bit.

I will happily eat 🞵🞵🞵🞵 if I'm wrong because it would be pretty cool to have this level of development around the stadiums.

If it's behind a paywall, you could at least post it here.

[summersm343]

Conceptual Rendering for 3801 Chestnut Street


LifeSciences-Newmark-3801ChestnutStreet-Philadelphia by Mr. Summers, on Flickr

https://wolfmediausa.com/2022/03/10/news...estnut-street-310000-sf-lab-development/

[PurpleWhiteOut]

From the OCF Naked Philly article, there are some interesting other projects mentioned there. But I can't believe 932 Arch is STILL stalled.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I chuckle when people talk about affordability and displacement in Philly. It’s not like people are being thrown out on the streets. When I was living in a hole the wall in Manhattan my rent went up significantly every year - not to mention the ridiculous initial broker fees that now thankfully have been outlawed (was totally a scam). It got to the point between eating and making rent. I learned how to make tortillas because all I had in my cupboard was flour (great way to lose weight though). This went on for a few years until I had to move to Queens and get a roommate. Eventually, I moved out of the city altogether to save and regroup. That’s life. Nothing is guaranteed, whether it be relationships, jobs, happiness or where you prefer to live. It’s not the ideal reality we live in, but we all contribute to it in one way or another. I’m all for a social safety net, but I understand things change and those changes force one to make new decisions. That’s how we grow.

Believe it or not, there are areas of the city that are affordable and actually losing population. Not to mention other towns across the state and country. It’s not like we live in Luxembourg lol. Anyways thats just my two cents.

Idk, maybe it's just me, but to me there is a difference between generationally discriminated and underprivileged populations being displaced out of the neighborhoods they've lived in for generations and some dude deciding to live in the most expensive city in America for a few years in his early 20s, so he can act like he pulled himself up from poverty or something. To me comparing the two situations is...hmmm, i'm searching for a word that wouldn't sound offensive here and coming up short so I'll just move on. But hey, that's just me.

Originally Posted by summersm343

Lastly... Philadelphia does not have an affordability problem. It has a job and income problem. Show me one major city in the country... no, show me one major city in the world where you can afford to live close to the city center on a lower class or working class income? I'll wait.... every major city requires at least upper-middle if not upper class incomes to live in and around the city core. The neighborhoods in and around Center City SHOULD be expensive, and in fact are still pretty affordable comparatively to the majority of other major cities in the country and the world. Case in point:

Obviously it should be expensive to live in the city center of a healthy thriving city. But it is absolute nonsense to think that no one should live there unless they're upper middle class. I'll grant some of this comes down to the fact we see the world and how it should work pretty differently and that's fine. But even setting aside decency, in general, cities, especially major world class cities, have come to understand that cities don't really work without lower income people. Much as you may like to shuffle them over to the outskirts of the city, without them living nearby, the commute to come in and do things like make your lattes and park your cars becomes untenable and it becomes hard to fill such positions.

Obviously it's much more expensive in New York than Philly, but there are also 100s of thousands affordable housing units in New York including 10s of thousands right in the densest parts of Manhattan. A healthy city is expensive in its core, but a healthy city also makes it possible for people of all incomes to live there.

Philly is obviously no where near NYC in terms of housing costs, but the skyrocketing housing costs over the past 3 decades are why many are banging the drum about the necessity for Philly to really step up its game in this regard.

[AnEmperorPenguin]

Originally Posted by allovertown

There are 70 affordable units in the current development. It would be so easy to just require the owner incorporate 70 affordable units in the new development. Even better, encourage them to build even taller and denser and give them zoning bonuses for incorporating even more affordable units.

You know, the "funniest" part of this is that Gauthier was totally fine with 70 affordable units getting turned into a parking lot at 5000 Warrington Ave, when she knew that the same number of units would be lost at the U city complex.


Kind of seems like she's doing this for a campaign ad sometime down the road since (afaik) what she's doing is illegal and is a waste of time.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Yep. Our city government is a complete crock of 🞵🞵🞵🞵. This is obvious spot zoning. I'm pretty certain this is illegal. I really hope the city and Gauthier gets raked over the coals in court. We've proven time and time again that Philadelphia doesn't have an affordability issue... in fact, it's one of the cheapest housing markets IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES. The problem is JOBS, and Gauthier wants to block jobs from coming to the city???

I 100% get that people are being displaced, but these townhomes are absolutely awful and outdated. I agree with you completely McGrath that the city should have been working to find NEW, suitable and actually live-able housing elsewhere in the city for these residents, or came to an agreement with the land owner to sell to someone who is planning a MIX of housing (where affordable housing could be mixed in) and lab/life sciences space.

Once again, a perfect example of our City leadership being completely incompetent and trying to do all the wrongs things and point fingers at all the wrong people to try to cover up their incompetence and fix their mistakes.

Wow you are being really negative. Don't you know that other city councils in the country have problems too? Philly is not alone here.



You keep beating on the affordability drum but what criteria are you using for this, just numbers? Or are you taking into consideration the whole picture, which would be a desirable and relatively safe area along with the average resident's income? That seems to paint a different picture to me.

And Philly is big and very dense in most spots so it is kind of an animal all its own and it's hard to compare it to other U.S. cities.

[Frontst17]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Idk, maybe it's just me, but to me there is a difference between generationally discriminated and underprivileged populations being displaced out of the neighborhoods they've lived in for generations and some dude deciding to live in the most expensive city in America for a few years in his early 20s, so he can act like he pulled himself up from poverty or something. To me comparing the two situations is...hmmm, i'm searching for a word that wouldn't sound offensive here and coming up short so I'll just move on. But hey, that's just me.



Obviously it should be expensive to live in the city center of a healthy thriving city. But it is absolute nonsense to think that no one should live there unless they're upper middle class. I'll grant some of this comes down to the fact we see the world and how it should work pretty differently and that's fine. But even setting aside decency, in general, cities, especially major world class cities, have come to understand that cities don't really work without lower income people. Much as you may like to shuffle them over to the outskirts of the city, without them living nearby, the commute to come in and do things like make your lattes and park your cars becomes untenable and it becomes hard to fill such positions.

Obviously it's much more expensive in New York than Philly, but there are also 100s of thousands affordable housing units in New York including 10s of thousands right in the densest parts of Manhattan. A healthy city is expensive in its core, but a healthy city also makes it possible for people of all incomes to live there.

Philly is obviously no where near NYC in terms of housing costs, but the skyrocketing housing costs over the past 3 decades are why many are banging the drum about the necessity for Philly to really step up its game in this regard.

Nailed it. Well said. People so worried about that tax base that “affordable” has become a dirty word. This is actually the difference I see between a “business center” and a living breathing city.