Calgary International Airport II

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I don’t know.

Air Canada could only make DEL work out of Canada fairly recently with the 787 from their largest hubs.

Is India premium heavy? I have my doubts. Combined with the high requirements for aircraft utilization, the extensive fuel required (11,000km route), the fact that Calgary is a smaller market, AC competition on the route from Canada, and lack of a connecting partner in India and the case seems iffy.

Good points. I was thinking that the lack of premium could help WS (since they don't have much premium on their 787's). In regards to the connections that's also a good point, but from my experience most people flying into DEL from North America tend to drive to their destination. Maybe WS connections would help?
But you're right that AC competition, aircraft utilization and fuel requirements would definitely hinder a future YYC-DEL route.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Is India premium heavy?

Absolutely not. Quite the opposite, in fact.

WS applied to the CTA a request to codeshare to India in 2018, which was approved. Don't know if they followed through with it though.

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2018-149

[YYCFlier]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Absolutely not. Quite the opposite, in fact.

WS applied to the CTA a request to codeshare to India in 2018, which was approved. Don't know if they followed through with it though.

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2018-149

Yes YYC is a smaller market, but it's WS' largest hub. They'd feed from YEG and YVR and US markets. You can use that explanation for any flight ex-YYC compared to YVR, but remember YVR is WS smallest hub. Question is can they make it profitable with AC and AI flying out of YVR.

I don't see YYC-NRT coming back with AC, maybe a seasonal route for WS though when it goes into Asia. Interestingly, YYC-NRT existed long before YUL-NRT, then they moved the route to YUL.

[peytol]

I recall a few years ago standing beside some yvr help staff saying there was 50 or so wheel chairs coming off Delhi going to SFO. I'm sure westjet would have no problem getting connections through YYC.

But you have to wonder with the price of fuel the way it is, how sustainable are those routes?

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

Yes YYC is a smaller market, but it's WS' largest hub. They'd feed from YEG and YVR and US markets. You can use that explanation for any flight ex-YYC compared to YVR, but remember YVR is WS smallest hub. Question is can they make it profitable with AC and AI flying out of YVR.

I don't see YYC-NRT coming back with AC, maybe a seasonal route for WS though when it goes into Asia. Interestingly, YYC-NRT existed long before YUL-NRT, then they moved the route to YUL.

Yep Calgary YYC is small market, but YYC does have passengers willingly to buy the Business /Premium class seating on the plane✈️ when flying.
YYC is more on the Mainline for US/ International flights compared to Edmonton YEG is a signal of it.

As for YYC to Asia flights,Tokyo Japan will likely resume again some point in few years & probably seasonal on WestJet.

But don’t count Air Canada out they have enough 787’s to do YYC - Tokyo nonstop (summer seasonal) to compete with WS on it, eventually when WestJet decides to start its adventure to Asia.

Until that happens,most YYC - Asia flights are connecting options through Vancouver YVR, Toronto YYZ & Montreal YUL in Canada & along with West/Central US airport’s like Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Dallas, Houston or Chicago.

[People_talking]

Take into account you now have to fly around Russia as there isn't ant overflight for Canadian airlines anymore. There's also the issue that if Russia is again to open their airspace to Canadian carriers typically they only allow Siberian overflight rights to one airline per country, so WestJet would likely have to per sway The Kremlin into allow them to operate.

Originally Posted by People_talking

Take into account you now have to fly around Russia as there isn't ant overflight for Canadian airlines anymore. There's also the issue that if Russia is again to open their airspace to Canadian carriers typically they only allow Siberian overflight rights to one airline per country, so WestJet would likely have to per sway The Kremlin into allow them to operate.

Yeah I mean that kind of thinking is cart before the horse... like you've got the horse in another universe. I'm simply sold not sold on the massively leisure YYC-DEL being some kind of slam dunk for either WS or AC. I don't think it'd work... yet.

Originally Posted by Calfan12

Yep Calgary YYC is small market, but YYC does have passengers willingly to buy the Business /Premium class seating on the plane✈️ when flying.
YYC is more on the Mainline for US/ International flights compared to Edmonton YEG is a signal of it.

That is 100% false and added to the growing list of statements you make that aren't based on fact. Loads are simply higher out of YYC which is what warrants mainline equipment, or flights at all. If YYC skews more premium, this is not an indicator of it - the lack of ability to sustain a premium-heavy config like BA suggests the opposite.

[People_talking]

Theres a decent number of pax flying YYC-DEL, however the number I found from anna.aero are also pre-pandemic.

YYC-DEL ~55154
YEG-DEL ~42050

Could be enough to warrant maybe 3x weekly at some point?

Im not completely sure what the numbers are like from PDX and the west coast however.

Originally Posted by People_talking

Theres a decent number of pax flying YYC-DEL, however the number I found from anna.aero are also pre-pandemic.

YYC-DEL ~55154
YEG-DEL ~42050

Could be enough to warrant maybe 3x weekly at some point?

Im not completely sure what the numbers are like from PDX and the west coast however.

I absolutely believe it will be possible and I know there is relatively high demand, I'm just not sure WS has at the very top of their priority list for new 787 flying. I'm more than happy to be 100% if tomorrow WS launched 3x weekly DEL but it's not imminent, IMO.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

I absolutely believe it will be possible and I know there is relatively high demand, I'm just not sure WS has at the very top of their priority list for new 787 flying. I'm more than happy to be 100% if tomorrow WS launched 3x weekly DEL but it's not imminent, IMO.

It definitely could be a future route for Westjet. Especially since they’ve 10 options for 787-9s. As it stands now though, it would be a big ask and a European network of destinations is a bigger priority with lower barriers to entry. Getting more LHR and permanent AMS slots would be huge for them.

I would guess that DEL is about a decade out.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

I absolutely believe it will be possible and I know there is relatively high demand, I'm just not sure WS has at the very top of their priority list for new 787 flying. I'm more than happy to be 100% if tomorrow WS launched 3x weekly DEL but it's not imminent, IMO.

You're probably right.
Unrelated but I'm surprised F8 is will fly roughly 63 weekly (or on average 9 flights a day) out of YYC this summer. Is that sustainable for them?

Originally Posted by hehehe

You're probably right.
Unrelated but I'm surprised F8 is will fly roughly 63 weekly (or on average 9 flights a day) out of YYC this summer. Is that sustainable for them?

For the duration of the summer, probably... but in the short term their OTP has been in such shambles, at 9 flights a day they are going to be an absolute disaster unless they figure it out immediately.Lynx intends to quickly ramp up ops going into 2023 and WS will defend what they feel is necessary. The next 18 months will be an absolute and unpredictable bloodbath on the LCC front, but the first thought that comes to mind is that Flair will give up a bit of ground to Lynx in S23 vs S22, out of YYC at least.

[hollywoodcory]

WS S22 Changes are finally here.

*NEW*
SNA - Goes year-round, 3x weekly in summer months
BOS - Finally happening, but down to 2x weekly
FCO - Also finally happening.

By June, ALL previously exisiting Transborder destinations are planned to operate.
DEN - Reduced to 2x weekly, resuming June 2
SEA/PDX - Increased to 2x daily from May 1.

Europe:
LON - Combined 1x daily (LHR 4x weekly / LGW Up to 4x weekly) Only on Wed do both routes operate.
CDG - Up to 5x weekly (No Wed or Sat) - This could be simply a lack of 787s.
FCO - Up to 3x weekly
DUB - Up to 3x weekly

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

WS S22 Changes are finally here.

*NEW*
SNA - Goes year-round, 3x weekly in summer months
BOS - Finally happening, but down to 2x weekly
FCO - Also finally happening.

By June, ALL previously exisiting Transborder destinations are planned to operate.
DEN - Reduced to 2x weekly, resuming June 2
SEA/PDX - Increased to 2x daily from May 1.

Europe:
LON - Combined 1x daily (LHR 4x weekly / LGW Up to 4x weekly) Only on Wed do both routes operate.
CDG - Up to 5x weekly (No Wed or Sat) - This could be simply a lack of 787s.
FCO - Up to 3x weekly
DUB - Up to 3x weekly

I'm impressed that transborder/TATL seem to be holding up quite well considering we're not over the pandemic quite just yet. Was AUS added back?

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by hehehe

I'm impressed that transborder/TATL seem to be holding up quite well considering we're not over the pandemic quite just yet. Was AUS added back?

No AUS from what I can see. It is possible they didn't file some new routes prior to them actually being announced.

A couple of corrections to above:
LGW is actually up to 5x weekly in peak periods, so LON is up to 9x weekly.
BOS is 3x weekly (not 2).
PDX operates 2x daily but only on 4 days a week in May.

Also:
YQB - Down to 4x weekly (from the increase to daily).

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

No AUS from what I can see. It is possible they didn't file some new routes prior to them actually being announced.

A couple of corrections to above:
LGW is actually up to 5x weekly in peak periods, so LON is up to 9x weekly.
BOS is 3x weekly (not 2).
PDX operates 2x daily but only on 4 days a week in May.

Also:
YQB - Down to 4x weekly (from the increase to daily).

Interesting. 2x weekly AUS was probably marginal anyways. I guess we can expect a press release on Monday for YYZ-ORD, YVR-YKA and any other new routes then.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

Interestingly, YYC-NRT existed long before YUL-NRT, then they moved the route to YUL.

I don't think interesting is the right word. I would say "it's normal YYC-NRT existed before YUL-NRT".

It's only been a handful of years now that AC has entered the YUL-East Asia market. And it makes sense. Yes, there is probably slightly more O&D from YUL, but Montreal isn't well placed to serve as a hub for Canada-East Asia. YYC makes more sense in that regard, hence why AC started NRT from there. It's only when AC upped its game significantly with transfer traffic (including 6th freedom traffic from the US) at YUL that East Asia out of Montreal became viable (combined with the arrival of the B787). So it's the right equipment, O&D and transfer traffic that makes it work. YYZ being close to maxing out in terms of slots helps YUL's cause as well.

But if you want to use the word interesting, I would use it on YYC-DEL vs YUL-DEL.

YYC-DEL O&D is significantly larger than YUL-DEL, and the distance involved for both are almost identical (YYC-DEL is actually 100 NM shorter), and yet AC chose the latter instead of the former. A lot of reasons for that, the most important of which is to leverage your most important hubs (and YYC clearly isn't that for AC). Same way WS is focusing their long haul on YYC right now, when there is much larger O&D from other Canadian cities.

[hehehe]

From what I can see there seem to be roughly 140 flights a day on WS (from July onwards). Quite impressive in my opinion. Would it be fair to say WS out of YYC specifically will recover by next winter? (barring a new variant)

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by hehehe

From what I can see there seem to be roughly 140 flights a day on WS (from July onwards). Quite impressive in my opinion. Would it be fair to say WS out of YYC specifically will recover by next winter? (barring a new variant)

https://westjet.mediaroom.com/2022-03-14...ertas-recovery-with-2022-summer-schedule

Seems to be up to 142 departures.

Nice list of Transborder/International routes from Alberta this Summer. Everything from YYC is back (except for AUS).

If you asked in say... June 2020, I don't think anybody would have expected WS to be pretty much all the way back by S22. Vaccines literally saved the world.

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

SNA - Goes year-round, 3x weekly in summer months

Loads have been impressive.

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

BOS - Finally happening, but down to 2x weekly

Advance bookings for S20 were through the roof when it was originally announced. This could be big for WS once they really get the ball rolling with it, makes sense they're starting slowly.

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

(except for AUS).

AUS never did great. Performed kinda like DEN. If you're WS it's the kind of thing you'd try if you have an RJ or E175 but... your smallest jet has 134 seats and burns a lot more than the competition's 137 seat jet.