YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by nname

Want to talk about long-haul route cancellation then...? Yeah, don't forget about Rouge

Mainline took over some of the Rouge routes. Not just long haul. Routes to the Caribbean and the US as well. It's part of the reason why all of the mainline widebodies were recently reactivated, including the 77Ls, even though international flying is still a fraction of what it was in 2019.

Originally Posted by micmiko

comparing YUL or any other airport to YVR in the YVR thread achieves nothing useful. I am not going to base my flying decisions when I fly out of YVR on whether YUL has more international passengers,

I'm not writing to try and influence your flying decisions. I'm stating facts.

it's a fact that until China opens up, YVR's international numbers will remain low.

How many weekly flights to China from YVR pre-pandemic? 50? 60 weekly? Probably more like 70 I'm sure. How many now?

Originally Posted by hehehe

Whether it's in 2022 or 2023 you're right that Chinese flying will come back. But scoring AI and SQ is such a huge win for the airport authority!

Yes. I agree. China will open up eventually. And when that happens, YVR's number will skyrocket instantly.

Originally Posted by micmiko

Since you like to cherrypick statistics to highlight

Most statistic enthusiasts "cherrypick" two stats. Overall passengers, and international passengers. Both very relevant statistics.

You're making it sound like I'm comparing the number of bathroom stalls at different airports. I'm not. I'm comparing an important stat among Canada's busiest airports.

I'm usually the one that updates the "list of Canada's busiest airports" page on wiki. That stuff interests me, and has for over 13-14 years now. Posting YVR's numbers and comparing them to the airports above and below it, is very much relevant.

Originally Posted by micmiko

Since you like to cherrypick statistics to highlight shortcomings: YUL's total int'l pax in 2012 was 8,287,969 vs YVR's 8,199,365.

Looking that back now, and yes, it seems for maybe a couple of years around then, the intl stats were pretty close between the two. However, pretty sure that since the early 2000s, for most of the time, YVR has been #2.

A difference of only a couple of thousand in 2012. That's nothing. The difference now, in a pandemic, with low absolute intl numbers to boot, is over 1 million. That's very different from 2012. The pandemic clearly isn't affecting all airports equally.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by casper

They also need to work of securing some of the temporary visitors they had during the pandemic. The logical transit airport for the Tahiti flights is obviously Vancouver. Perhaps work on convincing the Australian and New Zealand airlines that Vancouver makes sense as a transit airport for flights to Heathrow or New York.

LAX is far more logical, as....

1. it has higher O&D to both Paris and Tahiti.
2. It sits closer to the great circle non stop route between PPT and CDG.

That second point is also true for flights from Australia/NZ to the Eastern US.

As for LHR, you should probably look at a map of a non stop flights from SYD/AKL to LHR. YVR is nowhere near the great circle routing for such a route, and would make an abysmal transit point, based on distance.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

As for LHR, you should probably look at a map of a non stop flight from SYD/AKL to LHR. YVR is nowhere near the great circle routing for such a route, and would make an abysmal transit point, based on distance.

From SYD to London you are right. YVR as a connection would be too long and impractical. Auckland is another story Nonstop (were it possible) would be 11405 miles. Via YVR 11767 miles; very close. As a point of comparison, Auckland to LHR via DXB is 12244 miles. Of course, the Auckland market is much smaller than SYD or MEL, so it would not happen on that basis alone.

[thenoflyzone]

^ Yeah, the optimal route from AKL to LHR passes just east of Japan. This being said, Air NZ exited LHR in 2020 after 38 years of serving London (LHR and LGW). They sold their slot pair for US$27 million, which is a steal compared to other sales in the last 5-6 years. Doubt they're returning anytime soon. Even if they wanted to, they won't be able to get daily slots with adequate times that easily. Just ask WestJet.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=AKL-LHR,+nrt&MS=wls&MR=1200&MX=720x360&PM=*

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=syd-LHR,+hkg,+bkk&MS=wls&MR=1200&MX=720x360&PM=*

When they flew last to LHR, it was via LAX. In the nineties and early 2000s, the route transited via HKG. It even transited via DFW sometime in the 80s. Bottom line though, they couldn't make LHR profitable, as only 7% of all travelers between Auckland and LHR were flying via LAX. So they quit.

https://simpleflying.com/air-new-zealand-london/

[casper]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

LAX is far more logical, as....

1. it has higher O&D to both Paris and Tahiti.
2. It sits closer to the great circle non stop route between PPT and CDG.

That second point is also true for flights from Australia/NZ to the Eastern US.

As for LHR, you should probably look at a map of a non stop flights from SYD/AKL to LHR. YVR is nowhere near the great circle routing for such a route, and would make an abysmal transit point, based on distance.

Vancouver has a better setup with an actual international concourse and I would hope a less difficult customs/immigration organization that LAX.

An airline from Australia would have rights to carry passengers between Vancouver and JFK. They would not between LAX and JFK.

[zahav]

Looks like KLM is deploying their brand new 787-10 on the YVR route for the month of July. It will be a nice addition, don't think we've gotten one of them yet? It's odd that it's only for a single month, but who knows (as everyone keeps saying, 'changes are likely still'). It's a decent bump in seats too. But the 777 is great too, I'd be happy with either, but will be cool to see the 787-10

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by zahav

Looks like KLM is deploying their brand new 787-10 on the YVR route for the month of July. It will be a nice addition, don't think we've gotten one of them yet? It's odd that it's only for a single month, but who knows (as everyone keeps saying, 'changes are likely still'). It's a decent bump in seats too. But the 777 is great too, I'd be happy with either, but will be cool to see the 787-10

So much cool happening at YVR compared to some of the more eastern airports that are almost frozen shut this time of year. We just keep having exotic airlines flying some sweet modern metal in here from very appealing destinations. YVR truly is a leading airport in Canada in so many ways.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by hehehe

Whether it's in 2022 or 2023 you're right that Chinese flying will come back. But scoring AI and SQ is such a huge win for the airport authority!

Hopefully we keep them. I suspect that we got AI and SQ in part due to both Japan and China being difficult or impossible to fly through and people's preference for flying direct right now... that and a lot of people don't want to fly through China right now.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

But, sigh, certain posters will always chime in anyway.
And trofirhen too… fixated on the same thing for years and years yet…

My humble apologies. I admit, years back, harping on getting Paris, which we finally did, with AF. And I admit (perhaps in futility) that I have 'harped on getting a route to South America, maybe starting with Lima.
There are two reasons for this. I don't want ((and I'm sure others also)) to see SEA-TAC get their foot in there first, and overtake YVR in that part of the world. And I would LOVE YVR to become a five-continent airport. I realize that all this may be considered 'harping' and I won't mention it again, but is it really that bad? And are the ad hominem remarks really necessary? Thank you for your time and consideration.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

Calgary Based Lynx Air announced Vancouver YVR is among their 1st start up destinations in Canada starting April 2022:

YVR - Calgary YYC from April 7 7x weekly & 14x weekly from May 20

Flair responded by increase YVR-YYC to 12x weekly starting May 17.

5x weekly flight in added in the evening, in additional to the original daily flight in the morning.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by nname

Flair responded by increase YVR-YYC to 12x weekly starting May 17.

5x weekly flight in added in the evening, in additional to the original daily flight in the morning.

Interesting & not too surprising,WestJet & Air Canada will both eventually respond to Lynx Air on Vancouver YVR- Calgary YYC routing too , as they probably do it quietly by lower prices to match it & adding in few additional weekly flights between YVR and YYC too!!

[Calfan12]

The Vancouver International Airport saw its "year-over-year" passenger traffic drop by 72 per cent and it expects this year to be another challenging one because of fewer people choosing to travel by air.

A report that goes before Vancouver city council Tuesday doesn't say whether the drop was calculated for a full calendar or fiscal year, or whether the statistics date back to the declaration of the pandemic in March 2020, but said passenger traffic for the "year-over-year" time frame was 7.1 million.

Statistics on the airport's website show the number of "enplaned and deplaned" passengers for 2019 was 26,379,870. That volume of traffic decreased to 7,300,287 in 2020 and 4,991,843 from January to October of 2021; the November and December statistics have yet to be released.

The Vancouver airport and others in Canada don’t anticipate passenger numbers will return to pre-COVID-19 levels until 2025.

“We anticipate COVID-19 and its effects will endure for several years, and that the return of passenger traffic will be bumpy, slow and unpredictable,” said the report, which was released prior to a presentation Tuesday to council from Vancouver Airport Authority President and CEO Tamara Vrooman.

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local...ictable-coronavirus-city-council-4987094

The the above reasons,is why most Canada airlines✈️ are going to continue to re route/consolidate most of its passengers flights through its busiest Airport Hubs & that likely won't change for the forseeable future!!

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

What a surprise:

China bans Air Canada flights from YVR due to growing Omicron cases

In response to China’s ban on 4 of Air Canada’s Vancouver YVR to Shanghai PVG flights from carrying any passengers,it looks like Transport Canada has quietly “restricted/blocked” 4 of (MF) Xiamen Air 806 flights✈️from carrying passengers too on YVR to Xiamen XMN,China until end of February 2022.

Not surprising Canada did it also, as since March 2020 pandemic restrictions, the AC 25 & Xiamen Air 806 has had similar departure times at night to China carrying passengers from YVR & usually competing against each other!

[dharper]

I was just looking at Expedia for non-stop flights to Sydney, Australia, from YVR, and found it strange that there is a coded Westjet flight. Flight 6012 operated by Qantas(March 10,2022). First time I saw Westjet had Australia as a destination.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by dharper

I was just looking at Expedia for non-stop flights to Sydney, Australia, from YVR, and found it strange that there is a coded Westjet flight. Flight 6012 operated by Qantas(March 10,2022). First time I saw Westjet had Australia as a destination.

Well it certainly adds good feed into YVR for WS and helps fill up those domestic flights (after all YVR is only a good place for connections to Australasia/BC/West Coast/Hawaii for WS).

[nname]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

In response to China’s ban on 4 of Air Canada’s Vancouver YVR to Shanghai PVG flights from carrying any passengers,it looks like Transport Canada has quietly “restricted/blocked” 4 of (MF) Xiamen Air 806 flights✈️from carrying passengers too on YVR to Xiamen XMN,China until end of February 2022.

Not surprising Canada did it also, as since March 2020 pandemic restrictions, the AC 25 & Xiamen Air 806 has had similar departure times at night to China carrying passengers from YVR & usually competing against each other!

Any flight between China and Canada that are not currently operating are blocked by the Chinese side. Canada had not blocked any flight yet.

[casper]

Originally Posted by nname

Any flight between China and Canada that are not currently operating are blocked by the Chinese side. Canada had not blocked any flight yet.

Interesting article on what is going on YVR.

Plans a foot to make some YVR land available for industrial.

General Fusion is moving its head office and R&D center onto airport property.

They are converting vehicles to zero carbon power sources. And make land side power for aircraft greener.

Yes, the their highest debt levels in their history.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouve...ndustrial-multi-modal-transportation-hub

[casper]

YVR Airport in 1959 as well as the Vancouver Zoo in Stanley Park.

As a kid I remember the zoon. Don't remember when they shut it down.

• Video Link

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by nname

Any flight between China and Canada that are not currently operating are blocked by the Chinese side. Canada had not blocked any flight yet.

Okay & I also notice that Sichuan Airlines (3U) Chengdu- Vancouver Canada - Chengdu China nonstop flights✈️is currently suspended too until March 2022.

Probably must of been suspended by the Chinese side temporarily too? If Canada hasn’t blocked any yet.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

Okay & I also notice that Sichuan Airlines (3U) Chengdu- Vancouver Canada - Chengdu China nonstop flights✈️is currently suspended too until March 2022.

Probably must of been suspended by the Chinese side temporarily too? If Canada hasn’t blocked any yet.

If a flight have 5 or more passenger tested positive, then the route will be suspended for 2 weeks. If there are 10 or more, then 4 weeks. The suspension happens a few weeks after the actual flight, and add on top of each other... so it brings more than 10 positive cases per flight 4 weeks in a row before it is suspended, then the route will be suspended for 16 weeks.

Current known suspension:
AC YVR-PVG: Jan 13, 17, 20, 24, 31, Feb 7, 14, 21, 28, Mar 7
AC YYZ-PVG: none
CZ YYZ-CAN: Jan 14, 21, 28, Feb 4, 11, 18, 25, Mar 4
3U YVR-CTU: Jan 19, 26, Feb 2, 9, 16, 23
HU YYZ-XIY: Jan 16, 23, 30, Feb 6, 13, 20, 27, Mar 6, 13, 20, 27
MF YVR-XMN: Jan 24, 31, Feb 7, 14
MU YYZ-PVG: Jan 29, Feb 5
CA YVR-PEK: none

So for this week, there is only 2 routes between Canada and China unaffected... AC YVR-PVG resumed 1x weekly flight this week, and already bring in 6 cases... so more suspension coming

Suspension only apply to flight into China, so some airlines do run one-way passenger flights to Canada, and return with cargo only.