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  #161  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2021, 6:19 PM
moosejaw moosejaw is offline
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Originally Posted by DKaz View Post
Marshy land especially adjacent to the bog. It doesn't matter how much you compact the soil when you're essentially building on mud at sea level.
how deep is the bedrock and can this be reached with Piles?
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  #162  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 6:17 AM
GMasterAres GMasterAres is offline
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As others have pointed out, has nothing to do with engineering. If they can build a train tunnel from England to France, we can make a highway not sink in Metro Vancouver. Deepest piles for the Alex Fraser bridge which is like 5 feet from HWY 17 is I believe just over 100 meters mid-span North end. South nearer to HWY17 they aren't actually that deep according to the original engineering plans. You don't need to get to bedrock. Bedrock in that area is between about 200 meters and 1000 meters, you wouldn't go that far, you'd just go to hard clay/gravel. The bog is not that deep, not structure deep if you want something to actually be sturdy.

At the end of the day it is not engineering it is all politics. It's always politics and shaving money off budgets to get elected every 4 years. And people fall for it each election cycle. Let's remember HWY17 was originally designed with several interchanges that were downgraded to traffic lights specifically to shave money off the budget going into an election. Was well reported at the time. And now we're paying 5+ times the price as taxpayers to put those interchanges in place that were needed the day the highway opened. Voters get duped every election cycle by their own money being thrown at them by pretty much every government trying to get elected, and as long as that continues, don't expect anything to change ever.
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  #163  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 6:53 AM
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You do not even need to go to hard clay/gravel. A long enough pile designed for the purpose can generate enough friction to carry whatever load is needed even in the crappiest of soils. This though would be considered as the third choice after 1) bedrock, and 2) dense well consolidated soils.

Don't just blame political expediency without noting that it is the voter that drives the politicians, not the other way around. It is our political choices that produce the infrastructure we have. Politicians would not slash these budgets if the people were not certain to vote them out. So, for other reasons, I agree - "don't expect anything the change."
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  #164  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2021, 6:00 AM
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I haven’t seen any type of retaining wall being built yet. Just mounds of sand. Do they plan on constructing something like this?



Or do they plan on going the value engineering route and continue to use the rock cage retaining walls



BC MoT’s motto should be “squeeze every penny”
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  #165  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2021, 11:25 PM
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Not as bad as the A20 in northern Germany, also on peat bog.
One section was built on compacted aeas, the rest was built on piles.

https://www.thelocal.de/20180208/worries...n-north-german-autobahn-doubles-in-size/
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  #166  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2021, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by libtard View Post
I haven’t seen any type of retaining wall being built yet. Just mounds of sand. Do they plan on constructing something like this?

Or do they plan on going the value engineering route and continue to use the rock cage retaining walls

BC MoT’s motto should be “squeeze every penny”
Look harder, there are a few permanent walls on the project, and yes, some are wire faced. I find it laughable that any road user somehow requires a concrete panel faced wall in order to experience a pleasant journey, when structurally, a wire wall works up to about 10 m high. The cost of that aesthetic feature is not immaterial.

As for the comments around preload/piling/structures, with unlimited money you could build anything. Technology is far from the limitation.

It's the old saying.

Good
Cheap
Fast

Pick two.

jhausner has the right of it. The budgets are set by politicians and contractors provide solutions that meet those budgets. Even if there were political will, I doubt anyone would have the appetite to fund infrastructure that last more than 100 years, as collective taxes would be so high nobody could afford to use those assets with anything other than their shoes.

72nd Street was somewhat unique in that the project was basically a just a structure. It wasn't effective in terms of the timing to preload, although, for smaller areas, a structure does generally make sense.

I'd rather have a MOTI that squeezes every penny, rather than one that recklessly spends on lavish solutions that aren't needed and will still succumb to the forces of time and nature anyway.
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  #167  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2021, 11:23 PM
DKaz DKaz is offline
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Not as bad as the A20 in northern Germany, also on peat bog.
One section was built on compacted aeas, the rest was built on piles.

https://www.thelocal.de/20180208/worries...n-north-german-autobahn-doubles-in-size/
That's a fairly catastrophic failure.
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  #168  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2021, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DKaz View Post
That's a fairly catastrophic failure.
I wanna read too but I hit paywall.
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  #169  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2021, 1:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
I wanna read too but I hit paywall.

Fears for tourism as huge hole in north German autobahn doubles in size - 8 February 2018

Quote:


A major motorway in northeast Germany collapsed in September leading to it being completely shut down. With repairs set to last until 2021, the area's thriving tourist industry is getting nervous.

The hole in the Autobahn 20 near Tribsees in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania is getting bigger and bigger. The transport ministry in state capital Schwerin confirmed on Thursday that it had grown from 40 metres to around 95 metres in length over the past four months.

The roadway which runs just south of Rostock near Germany’s northern coast, sunk several metres at the end of September. A few weeks later, the entire road had to be closed in both directions.



Experts from the State Office for Road Construction said in the autumn that they expected a further decline in the road’s condition, but they were unable to say when this would happen.

Peat deposits under the motorway have been identified as responsible for the collapse, but it is still unclear what exactly happened in the ground that led to the roadway sinking. Experts have speculated that the foundations of the road were too weak to support it.

Meanwhile, the timetable for the rebuild of the road has been published. A spokeswoman for the ministry said that construction companies can apply for the contract until February 22nd. The applications will then be evaluated over six weeks, before three bidders are asked to submit a more detailed plan. Within six weeks the successful bidder will then be chosen.

Transport Minister Christian Pegel (SPD) has said that the motorway will be completely restored by 2021.

Tourist companies in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania are worried that the closure will impact their business. The A20 is a major road taking people from northwest Germany to the popular resort areas of Usedom and Rügen. There are concerns that the closure will increase traffic jams during the holiday high season and put people off visiting the region.
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  #170  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2021, 12:29 AM
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  #171  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2021, 7:42 AM
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Drove through the 91/17/Nordel area and things are really in full swing right now. Its honestly a bit hard to believe all that work is being done for $250M-ish
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  #172  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2021, 11:39 PM
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Moved

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Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
Not sure if this was covered somewhere else



More photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc/albums/72157710776044422
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  #173  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2021, 5:02 AM
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Okay I'm late to this party but I had to get into the Tilbury Industrial Park the other weekend and



What the hell is this? I have so many questions as to why this exists, what its purpose is for and who approved it. Why is this so unnecessarily complicated?
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  #174  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2021, 6:15 AM
madog222 madog222 is online now
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Probably long term planning dictating the roundabouts configuration, future direct access to the container yard and 80 Street overpass?

Here is a preliminary design with the Tilbury interchange with the same roundabout.

From here: https://delta.civicweb.net/document/47443
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  #175  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2021, 7:53 PM
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Yeah, the connector looks awful. It needs to be upgraded to an interchange, like they're doing to the Highway 17-Highway 91 connector.
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  #176  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2021, 8:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobert View Post
Drove through the 91/17/Nordel area and things are really in full swing right now. Its honestly a bit hard to believe all that work is being done for $250M-ish
No elevated structures and just a bunch of sand mounds that will undoubtedly sink and shift in the near future after paving? Yeah it’s actually really easy to believe
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  #177  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2021, 9:11 PM
flipper316 flipper316 is offline
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Originally Posted by MIPS View Post
Okay I'm late to this party but I had to get into the Tilbury Industrial Park the other weekend and



What the hell is this? I have so many questions as to why this exists, what its purpose is for and who approved it. Why is this so unnecessarily complicated?
It's BC what do you expect.
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  #178  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2021, 6:48 PM
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2021, October 9

Untitled by Lexus LX570, on Flickr

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Untitled by Lexus LX570, on Flickr

Untitled by Lexus LX570, on Flickr

Untitled by Lexus LX570, on Flickr

Untitled by Lexus LX570, on Flickr

Untitled by Lexus LX570, on Flickr

Untitled by Lexus LX570, on Flickr

Untitled by Lexus LX570, on Flickr

Untitled by Lexus LX570, on Flickr

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Untitled by Lexus LX570, on Flickr
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  #179  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2021, 9:19 PM
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i find it crazy they didn't build this when they opened the freeway, only 11yrs ago...
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  #180  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 11:03 PM
Mininari Mininari is offline
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Freeway? This thing is still a few interchanges short of being a proper freeway!

Anyways, I echoed this same sentiment 12-13 years ago when the dreaded "scope change" phrase was uttered here, but now I'm looking at the project and wonder if we would have seen the much-needed Nordel / 91 interchange upgrade component HAD they went with building the Sunbury Interchange right away...

It is good to see the 17-91 movements being built as a package, but I guess I don't deal with the insane traffic around there. Here's hoping it all helps... a lot!
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