Metro Vancouver Road Infrastructure Discussion

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yeah, it's a drag. I think one of the big problems is that these stations are not attended and not owned by individuals who are motivated to get them fixed ASAP the way a gas franchise owner would be.

I haven't used Electrify Canada/America charger yet, but I've heard they were bad when first deployed, but the experience is much better now.

[WarrenC12]

Regarding pricing, it also helps that electricity prices have been incredibly stable, and thanks to it being a crown corporation, extremely transparent compared to gasoline. BC Hydro goes through the BCUC for price changes annually, and they go up (sometimes down) in very low single digits once per year.

[Jimbo604]

California bans per-minute billing - Dec 2019 article for EV charging stations from electrek.co

On December 16, 2019, California’s Office of Administrative Law approved amendments to its Electric Vehicle Fueling Systems Specifications. These rules ban operators of electric vehicle charging stations from billing by the minute at new 240Vac stations in 2021 onwards, and new DCFC stations 2023 onwards.

This is a huge blow to Electrify America and EVgo. Both firms bill by the minute for EV charging, leaving drivers with sticker shock and feeling ripped off by the end of the session. Chargepoint will also be negatively affected, as many of their site-host partners choose to bill per minute. And while Tesla already bills by the kilowatt-hour, California will also be requiring charging stations to physically display “on their face” important information about electricity cost and delivery, a move that will put the most burden on Tesla’s Supercharger stations.

In the lead-up to the rule, charging network operators repeated their usual arguments about “selling a service” versus selling electricity, but California wasn’t having any of it ...

Kevin Schnepp, environmental program manager at the DMS, gave a great quote to E&E‘s David Ferris: “If someone was selling you something based on time, and they controlled the time that it was dispensed, would you trust them?”

...

[Jimbo604]

del

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

This is a huge blow to Electrify America and EVgo. Both firms bill by the minute for EV charging, leaving drivers with sticker shock and feeling ripped off by the end of the session. Chargepoint will also be negatively affected, as many of their site-host partners choose to bill per minute. And while Tesla already bills by the kilowatt-hour, California will also be requiring charging stations to physically display “on their face” important information about electricity cost and delivery, a move that will put the most burden on Tesla’s Supercharger stations.

This part is a bit weird since with Tesla you have full display of how much power is going in, how much has gone in, what speed, and price, all inside the car while you charge. And you can stop it at any time from within the car.

California is at about 36c/kWh right now for Supercharging. Some other states are per kWh as well. With a little knowledge, it's easy to beat those rates in all of the other per minute billing jurisdictions.

[Jimbo604]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

This part is a bit weird since with Tesla you have full display of how much power is going in, how much has gone in, what speed, and price, all inside the car while you charge. And you can stop it at any time from within the car.

California is at about 36c/kWh right now for Supercharging. Some other states are per kWh as well. With a little knowledge, it's easy to beat those rates in all of the other per minute billing jurisdictions.

True true but it sounds like they were worried about some other cars not displaying that information and they wanted transparency so Tesla just gets lumped in with the "all chargers must have active display" dynamic.

Also 15c/kWh, 20c/kWh, 30c/kWh, it's all good as charging an EV will still be substantially cheaper than fueling a gas car. Most people probably $20 a month or less in electricity charging at home with BC Hydro 9.41c kw/hr??

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

True true but it sounds like they were worried about some other cars not displaying that information and they wanted transparency so Tesla just gets lumped in with the "all chargers must have active display" dynamic.

Also 15c/kWh, 20c/kWh, 30c/kWh, it's all good as charging an EV will still be substantially cheaper than fueling a gas car. Most people probably $20 a month or less in electricity charging at home with BC Hydro 9.41c kw/hr??

Yeah I drove a small car before, and my Tesla costs maybe 15-20% of my old gas costs. I factor in triple that for fast charging on a road trip and it's still a no brainer.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yeah I drove a small car before, and my Tesla costs maybe 15-20% of my old gas costs. I factor in triple that for fast charging on a road trip and it's still a no brainer.

Exactly. I save so much money year-round by charging in my garage that I have no problem whatsoever paying premium rates for fast charging when I'm out on a trip. As far as I'm concerned it keeps the freeloaders from hogging the chargers.

And that's not even getting into reduced maintenance costs - my car has only been in for service once in almost 4 years, and that was for a software update under warranty.

[Klazu]

I have been meaning to ask if anyone knows why there is always a damp spot or water running on the Brunette westbound onramp as well as the southbound lanes of Boundary Road? I guess there must be a broken pipe underneath both, but it has been like this for years and nothing seems to get done to it? I am mostly curious and it is only a minor annoyance when driving through with a car you just washed.

[Changing City]

The B.C. Supreme Court has granted an interim injunction to stop construction on a new road planned through a popular park in Surrey, B.C.

The interim injunction for the City of Surrey to stop building the road through Bear Creek Park is in place until Aug. 19, when the main injunction application is set to be heard.

Friends of Bear Creek Park and Force of Nature filed for the injunction on Friday. [source]

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I have been meaning to ask if anyone knows why there is always a damp spot or water running on the Brunette westbound onramp as well as the southbound lanes of Boundary Road? I guess there must be a broken pipe underneath both, but it has been like this for years and nothing seems to get done to it? I am mostly curious and it is only a minor annoyance when driving through with a car you just washed.

Seems like that there is just no proper drainage for water from the hillside. You can see how bad the Boundary Road water pooling has caused the pavement to crack further down. It started in 2015 but I think if it was a water leak it would be a lot worse.

Pretty sure the Coquitlam water is similar with water collecting from the hillside just pooling there. Sometime after 2009 they installed that sound wall and dumped a bunch of rock on the hillside. Whatever ditch they installed next to the road isn't working.

[jollyburger]

Not sure if this was covered somewhere else



More photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc/albums/72157710776044422

[aberdeen5698]

So I got to thinking about all these exceptional heat waves we've been having, particularly the extreme one at the end of June that saw temperatures break through previous records by more then 5C. Hot weather = expansion of bridge structures, and has has to be accommodated by expansion joints. Have there been any issues on our local bridges? Does anyone know what the design temperatures are for our area?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

So I got to thinking about all these exceptional heat waves we've been having, particularly the extreme one at the end of June that saw temperatures break through previous records by more then 5C. Hot weather = expansion of bridge structures, and has has to be accommodated by expansion joints. Have there been any issues on our local bridges? Does anyone know what the design temperatures are for our area?

I didn't hear of any issues with bridges, but I did see a couple of pictures of sidewalks in Coquitlam that buckled in the last heatwave.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

So I got to thinking about all these exceptional heat waves we've been having, particularly the extreme one at the end of June that saw temperatures break through previous records by more then 5C. Hot weather = expansion of bridge structures, and has has to be accommodated by expansion joints. Have there been any issues on our local bridges? Does anyone know what the design temperatures are for our area?

Seems like you would have earlier replacement of expansion joints vs any catastrophic event.

From the Port Mann:

Prequalification testing of the joints has been successfully carried out in accordance with
project requirements. An Opening Movement & Vibration (OMV) test (Fig. 6), conducted in
accordance with AASHTO LRFD Bridge Construction Specifications Appendix A19,
7
Fig. 8-The structure of a typical disk
bearing
simulated the opening/closing movements resulting from daily temperature cycles, and the
vibrations from traffic, of a 100-year life (i.e. 33% more than the 75-year life specified by the
standard). A Seal Push Out (SPO) test (Fig. 7) then verified the resistance of the elastomeric
seals of the same tested joint to being pushed out of the recesses in the steel beams which
hold them in place.

https://www.acemarketing.ch/ws/media-lib...ort-mann-bridge-ijbrc-las-vegas-2011.pdf

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

https://www.acemarketing.ch/ws/media-lib...ort-mann-bridge-ijbrc-las-vegas-2011.pdf

Very interesting read, thanks. It's clear from this that the design point for the sinus expansion joints at each end of the suspended span is to allow 870mm of movement (almost a metre!).

What's not made clear is how that allowance was derived. One assumes that it's the difference between the length of the centre span when the bridge is at its minimum cold-soaked temperature vs. its maximum. But what are those temperature points?

If, for example, the maximum temperature was 50C, then there are potential issues if we get a heat wave that approaches or exceeds that temperature.

I'm just a bit curious as to what the margins are and whether climate change was a factor in choosing them.

[Marshal]

Typical engineering margins are on the order of 20%.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Very interesting read, thanks. It's clear from this that the design point for the sinus expansion joints at each end of the suspended span is to allow 870mm of movement (almost a metre!).

What's not made clear is how that allowance was derived. One assumes that it's the difference between the length of the centre span when the bridge is at its minimum cold-soaked temperature vs. its maximum. But what are those temperature points?

If, for example, the maximum temperature was 50C, then there are potential issues if we get a heat wave that approaches or exceeds that temperature.

I'm just a bit curious as to what the margins are and whether climate change was a factor in choosing them.

This one has more details on thermals:

Temperature Effects in Bridge Condition
Evaluation and Capacity Rating in Oklahoma

For metal structures, the range of bridge temperature should generally be taken as 0 ~
120 °F under moderate climate and -30 ~ 120 °F for cold climate (AASHTO, 2002).
As indicated above, the standard specification provides a temperature range for
moderate and cold climates to be used in design of metal structures, like steel bridges.
The specification stipulates that provisions should be made for the stresses or
movements generated by the temperature variations in the bridge.

https://trid.trb.org/view/1676608

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Marshal

Typical engineering margins are on the order of 20%.

20% of what is my question.

Originally Posted by jollyburger

This one has more details on thermals...

Ah, very interesting, thanks! So 120F is about 49C, surprisingly close to my 50C guess. My back yard thermometer hit 43C during the June heat wave, so we're getting close, or at least a lot closer than I'd have expected until very recently.

Some places have hit higher temperatures, and the trend seems clear, so I wonder if they're going to increase that recommendation going forward...

[officedweller]

Cambie Street Bridge upgrades

These upgrades include:

• Bridge deck rehabilitation
• Deck joint seal and concrete repairs
• South pedestrian staircase repairs
• Seismic upgrades under the south side of the bridge

Staircase from bridge to seawall will be temporarily closed.
https://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/cambie-street-bridge-upgrades.aspx