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View Poll Results: Who are you voting for?
LPC 50 40.32%
CPC 22 17.74%
NDP 35 28.23%
PPC 8 6.45%
BQ 4 3.23%
GP 4 3.23%
Other 1 0.81%
Voters: 124. You may not vote on this poll

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  #401  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:29 PM
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He's been with CBC News since the 1990s, I think.

It's not like he's the unproven new guy. He has that sense of gravitas that being a news anchor/host should have. Peter Mansbridge and Lloyd Robertson had it.

It's the 'confident airline captain' voice. It's the one the reassures passengers when it comes over the PA. It's the one that says: 'I know what I'm doing and you'll get there safely' in its tone.

Rosemary Barton isn't that voice.
Even further back actually - he’s been there since the 1980s. There’s at least one clip of him on YouTube anchoring Sunday Report in 1989.

He hasn’t changed at all.
     
     
  #402  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:30 PM
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Wonder if the Tories will give him another shot or kick him to the curb. They don't have many genuine leadership candidates. Lewis, maybe?
No, definitely not her. Much too socially conservative. They do not need to pander to their base. They need to recruit from the political centre.

Chong maybe, but I think they need to give O'Toole one more chance.
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  #403  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:33 PM
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Even further back actually - he’s been there since the 1980s. There’s at least one clip of him on YouTube anchoring Sunday Report in 1989.

He hasn’t changed at all.
When I was university the young ladies would refer to him as Ian Handsomemansing.
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  #404  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:34 PM
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158 LPC, 119 CPC, 34 BQ, 25 NDP

Still mail in ballots to be counted today and tomorrow. Will see a few seats change hands Im betting.

A few take aways from me...

-CPC did decently well in Atlantic Canada, better then I thought.
-LPC did well in Vancouver. Numbers are better in BC then I thought. They actually gained seats! Polling did not say that.
-CPC failed to make a break through in urban ON which is concerning for them
-LPC made a break through in Calgary and Edmonton , likely due to anti Kenney feelings

-O'Tooles concession speech was odd. No recognition of a loss, no congratulations to Trudeau.
     
     
  #405  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:35 PM
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Disappointed in a Tory sweep in Saskatchewan. There were really strong NDP candidates in Regina Lewvan and Saskatoon West. Still, blue sweep.
     
     
  #406  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:42 PM
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It must feel a bit alienating to live there.
It is. Even Andrew Scheer wins by 41% points.
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  #407  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:42 PM
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-O'Tooles concession speech was odd. No recognition of a loss, no congratulations to Trudeau.
I agree with this. It felt more like an early start on the next campaign.

I do think he gets another shot. The CPC will need to figure out what to do about the PPC and if they try to bring those votes into the fold or move more to the center.

Very surprised to see the Green get two seats. Their platform was amateurish at best, May's leadership was sorely missed.
     
     
  #408  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:45 PM
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I think Paul is gone and forgotten.

May's victory speech made it clear. The Green base is Vancouver Island and the party still views her as leader.
     
     
  #409  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
No, definitely not her. Much too socially conservative. They do not need to pander to their base. They need to recruit from the political centre.

Chong maybe, but I think they need to give O'Toole one more chance.
100% agree. Give Trudeau another 2 years and he will be done. That will take him to 8 years in power. O'Toole would be well positioned to win. He's not a bad guy, and I think Ontario could warm to him.
     
     
  #410  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:57 PM
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I think Paul is gone and forgotten.
Probably, who knows who replaces her though. There's no guarantee the same thing that happened to her won't happen to her replacement.

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Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
May's victory speech made it clear. The Green base is Vancouver Island and the party still views her as leader.
The Greens have won just as many seats off the Island as on the Island. Perhaps PEI is their base of support.
     
     
  #411  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:00 PM
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The Greens have won just as many seats off the Island as on the Island. Perhaps PEI is their base of support.
NB too. The NDP is dead in NB, with the GRN filling their shoes. The GRN do well provincially and, under the proper circumstances could stage a federal resurgence, winning a seat or two.
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  #412  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:02 PM
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Originally Posted by thewave46 View Post
He's been with CBC News since the 1990s, I think.

It's not like he's the unproven new guy. He has that sense of gravitas that being a news anchor/host should have. Peter Mansbridge and Lloyd Robertson had it.

It's the 'confident airline captain' voice. It's the one the reassures passengers when it comes over the PA. It's the one that says: 'I know what I'm doing and you'll get there safely' in its tone.

Rosemary Barton isn't that voice.
Is it possible for a woman to sound like this?

Personally I have mixed feeling about the hosts showing signs of their partisanship. On one hand, everyone has personal views, sometimes strong partisan ones, which inform their perspective. There's this idea that media figures should represent a sort of "voice from nowhere" but in reality, everyone has their biases. The question is whether it's better to keep them hidden to maintain the illusion or is it better for the audience to know exactly where you're coming from?

I've seen some media critics condemn the "view from nowhere" as potentially being a more harmful type of bias in a couple of ways. It that can make the audience accept the content less critically since it's presented with a veneer of objectivity when content created by humans, all of which are subjects, cannot be truly objective. In other words, showing subjects who are implied to be rational and competent behaving in a detached, dispassionate manner suggests to the audience that this is the appropriate way for subjects to respond to the situation, aka with cool, dispassionate, detachment, when there are situations in which impassioned reactions would be more appropriate. Basically demonstrating the "everything's fine" bias in order to maintain the aesthetic when such an aesthetic does not represent the truth.

Personally while I'm just as capable of being drawn to or repelled by a figure on the basis of style, I'm more concerned with the content. I wasn't crazy about some of Barton's questions during the debate such as when she basically asked Singh to choose between tackling high housing prices and the people relying on their home equity for their retirement. As reducing prices is going to cause them to crash to zero, and as if home owners should be guaranteed unlimited appreciation at the expense of prospective buys. But it would have been worse had she pretended not to be a Liberal partisan lol
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  #413  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:10 PM
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100% agree. Give Trudeau another 2 years and he will be done. That will take him to 8 years in power. O'Toole would be well positioned to win. He's not a bad guy, and I think Ontario could warm to him.
We usually kick a person or party out after about 10-12 years so I expect the Liberals to change by the next election. Figure Trudeau will leave in 2 years.

The less moderates in the CPC will not let O'Toole to stay. Figure he has about 2 years left as well. NDP will review what happened but keep with the same leader.

But the big one is the PPC, do they stay around and get stronger or do they fold up their tent and join the CPC. Personally I hope they stay a strong separate party. keep all the right wing crazies in a box. Unlike the UCP here.
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  #414  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Is it possible for a woman to sound like this?

Personally I have mixed feeling about the hosts showing signs of their partisanship. On one hand, everyone has personal views, sometimes strong partisan ones, which inform their perspective. There's this idea that media figures should represent a sort of "voice from nowhere" but in reality, everyone has their biases. The question is whether it's better to keep them hidden to maintain the illusion or is it better for the audience to know exactly where you're coming from?

I've seen some media critics condemn the "view from nowhere" as potentially being a more harmful type of bias in a couple of ways. It that can make the audience accept the content less critically since it's presented with a veneer of objectivity when content created by humans, all of which are subjects, cannot be truly objective. In other words, showing subjects who are implied to be rational and competent behaving in a detached, dispassionate manner suggests to the audience that this is the appropriate way for subjects to respond to the situation, aka with cool, dispassionate, detachment, when there are situations in which impassioned reactions would be more appropriate. Basically demonstrating the "everything's fine" bias in order to maintain the aesthetic when such an aesthetic does not represent the truth.

Personally while I'm just as capable of being drawn to or repelled by a figure on the basis of style, I'm more concerned with the content. I wasn't crazy about some of Barton's questions during the debate such as when she basically asked Singh to choose between tackling high housing prices and the people relying on their home equity for their retirement. As reducing prices is going to cause them to crash to zero, and as if home owners should be guaranteed unlimited appreciation at the expense of prospective buys. But it would have been worse had she pretended not to be a Liberal partisan lol
That's actually how the media operates and is perceived in most of the world. Definitely in Europe which is what I am most familiar with.

In North America we still operate on the partial illusion that the media is supposed to be neutral and strives for that goal.

Whereas in reality most of our media has moved more in the direction of partisanship in the past 20-30-40 years.

Perhaps in the past they weren't as neutral as we thought they were, though.

But the expectation from the public that they will be neutral is certainly still there.

I am fine with a caveat emptor approach to media and that we view them with a critical eye and assume bias, but it becomes a hell of a lot touchier when we're talking about people working for a state broadcaster paid for with tax dollars.

The British media is a partisan mess for the most part but AFAIK the BBC remains a beacon of neutrality. (I admit to not watching them enough to write a full treatise on that - but they look pretty good to me.)

CTV, Global, The Sun, TVA, Le Devoir, the Globe, etc. can all lean whichever way they want, but I do think the CBC should be held to a higher standard.
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  #415  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:23 PM
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The quality of the CBC broadcast was definitely below that of a US election night broadcast. That's the nature of a smaller country though, they are stretched much thinner. A lot of the local coverage journalists they would go to looked like it was their first time on TV, reading off notes clearly visible, stammering, etc.

And yea, the main host showed some clear bias which wasn't cool, even if the greater broadcast was generally balanced.
I don't think any of those were just hired off the street. They are local reports that normally do content for the local CBC programming in each of the provinces and from time to time have content picked up by the national programs.

Even Ian Hanomansing is far from a new figure if your from BC. He started out as the anchor for the local CBC BC 6:00 pm news. Then started to fill in on the national programs from time to time.
     
     
  #416  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:30 PM
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We usually kick a person or party out after about 10-12 years so I expect the Liberals to change by the next election. Figure Trudeau will leave in 2 years.
I agree, although Trudeau seems to be accumulating scandals at about 1.5 times the speed of a typical prime minister. This is true of a lot of politicians these days, so I think it means that 8 years will feel like 12 in the old days.

Quote:
The less moderates in the CPC will not let O'Toole to stay. Figure he has about 2 years left as well. NDP will review what happened but keep with the same leader.
I think both Singh and O'Toole deserve to stay. Singh had to build up the NDP from near bankruptcy. O'Toole's job of trying to move to the centre to appeal to Ontarians, while corralling a caucus of 121 - more than half of whom are from Western Canada - is harder than it looks.

More knives will be out for O'Toole than for Singh though, especially since people like Pierre Poilievre already seem to be jockeying for the position.

Quote:
But the big one is the PPC, do they stay around and get stronger or do they fold up their tent and join the CPC. Personally I hope they stay a strong separate party. keep all the right wing crazies in a box. Unlike the UCP here.
Even with a pandemic, they only got 5%, and not all of those votes would have automatically voted Conservative otherwise. A lot of non-voters came out of the woodwork to vote PPC, and a lot of people who might have even voted for progressive parties may have parked their vote with the PPC in protest. Assuming that this pandemic is behind us by the next election (God, I hope so), I don't see the PCC attracting the same kind of support, and merging with the Conservatives just drags the CPC's ability to win seats in the GTA, which is how one wins elections.
     
     
  #417  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Since I guess we were keeping tabs on this, O'Toole won fewer seats and a lower percentage of the vote than Scheer.
That's fine. The question is did he do better in swing seat areas. And not just seat count. But how many seats were tighter. Running up the site in AB and SK to North Korea election levels was a useless strategy by Scheer.

I think a lot of conservatives are struggling to understand how much the country has changed. They don't seem to get that the electorate actually moved left in 2015. The NDP miscalculated too. Looking at their first shot at governing, they offered a balanced budget. They lost to the Liberals who campaigned explicitly on anti-austerity. And I daresay the imported populism and partisanship, from the US is only making it more complicated.

I think O'Toole is on track to be really competitive at the next election. I hope the CPC doesn't take away from this result that they need a hard right turn. Would be disastrous against the LPC offering up a woman for PM next time.
     
     
  #418  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:36 PM
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-O'Tooles concession speech was odd. No recognition of a loss, no congratulations to Trudeau.
Similar from Singh. Poor sportsmanship.
     
     
  #419  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:37 PM
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That's actually how the media operates and is perceived in most of the world. Definitely in Europe which is what I am most familiar with.

In North America we still operate on the partial illusion that the media is supposed to be neutral and strives for that goal.

Whereas in reality most of our media has moved more in the direction of partisanship in the past 20-30-40 years.

Perhaps in the past they weren't as neutral as we thought they were, though.

But the expectation from the public that they will be neutral is certainly still there.

I am fine with a caveat emptor approach to media and that we view them with a critical eye and assume bias, but it becomes a hell of a lot touchier when we're talking about people working for a state broadcaster paid for with tax dollars.

The British media is a partisan mess for the most part but AFAIK the BBC remains a beacon of neutrality. (I admit to not watching them enough to write a full treatise on that - but they look pretty good to me.)

CTV, Global, The Sun, TVA, Le Devoir, the Globe, etc. can all lean whichever way they want, but I do think the CBC should be held to a higher standard.
Yes being a state broadcaster is an important point that definitely adds some additional consideration.

I do actually enjoy the aesthetic of objectivity, but I'm somewhat leery of neutrality however. I haven't seen it as much here yet (although I don't watch much network news) but in the US, neutrality often takes the form of, "One side says A, the other side says B, so there you go. You decide" when the facts clearly support one side more than the other. But the media doesn't want to say that because that wouldn't be "neutral" and they could annoy the losing side and its supporters who would instantly shout things like "Fake news!" or "The lying press!".

The most desirable goal would be neutrality to the truth, regardless of which "side" that favours. But of course, that's a very difficult thing to achieve when all the people tasked with finding said truth are influenced by their subjective perspectives.

But things being hard doesn't mean one shouldn't try.
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  #420  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:38 PM
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