AUSTIN | Transportation Updates

[freerover]

Originally Posted by The ATX

Yeah, once the plans are officially made public, there will be a lot of upset people. I think the plans we have are for the ideal routes. The final plans are very much dependent on changes due to "neighborhood concerns" and local politics as well as updated cost projections.

I wonder how many petition props to kill Project Connect we'll have to deal with before construction starts.

[Enghum]

First impression is wow they are really going for it on the Orange Line. My guess is that this line is going to score very well with the FTA on ridership so they can push boundaries with longer tunnels and grade separation.

I'm even more curious now about project timelines. I don't imagine that all of the light rail in the initial investment will open at the same time. If the maintenance yard is out close to ABIA the easiest section to open first would be from the Airport out to Trinity/Rainey. The bridge over the lake being the biggest barrier but engineering and construction of a bridge is going to go a lot faster than the tunnel under the lake.

No car traffic on the bridge is nice. My bets on the bridge being simple and practical rather than a signature design. Everything about the current conditions of construction costs, property acquisitions, and complexity of the initial schematics says this is going to cost a few billion more than planned. The bridge will be the most visible part of the downtown segment and an easy target for stories of excess. Improvements for pedestrians like shade, seating, and an overlook in the middle would be nice instead.

Republic square Orange Line station is closer to the post office site rather than the proposed Republic tower. Not that much retail but it's underground inside of the post office site. Blue line still has it's own station even though the trains are expected to pass through the orange line's station too. That station only makes sense for the future gold line but there's also no underground direct path between the two stations.

With the tunnel extending under the lake I'm very curious about station depths for Republic square and Auditorium Shores. Deep subway stations end up having very long escalators and multiple landings. The footprint of the Auditorium shores station makes me think it's pretty far underground. I was really expecting the Republic Square station to be farther south. The incline needed to meet the blue line tunnel was probably too great to place a station there. My guess is tunnel boring for the 2 mile Orange Line segment and cut and cover for 4th Street and Trinity.

The 90 degree turns inside the tunnels are sharp! That's going to limit rolling stock options and speed is going to be about 5 mph but stations are right there anyways so not a huge deal. Biggest problem is that it's going to be very loud and the wheels on the track are going to screech. Please request train cabin noise mitigation once we get to the rolling stock open comments stage.

None of the 2016 Mobility Bond Corridor Program investments in North Lamar look like they will survive. In the grand scheme of a $10 billion project it's small but still frustrating to see a large investment that's going to be torn up in 10 to 15 years. It's not that I think that it's been a bad project or useless but these are investments that should have been make 10 to 15 years ago. An obvious symptom of Austin's lack of investment and planning up until recently.

[Azul]

Originally Posted by Enghum

No car traffic on the bridge is nice. My bets on the bridge being simple and practical rather than a signature design. Everything about the current conditions of construction costs, property acquisitions, and complexity of the initial schematics says this is going to cost a few billion more than planned. The bridge will be the most visible part of the downtown segment and an easy target for stories of excess. Improvements for pedestrians like shade, seating, and an overlook in the middle would be nice instead.

It's been mentioned on workgroup meetings that they're anticipating the Blue Line bridge to be a signature piece. I sure hope they keep with that direction because there's just so much potential.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Enghum

None of the 2016 Mobility Bond Corridor Program investments in North Lamar look like they will survive. In the grand scheme of a $10 billion project it's small but still frustrating to see a large investment that's going to be torn up in 10 to 15 years. It's not that I think that it's been a bad project or useless but these are investments that should have been make 10 to 15 years ago. An obvious symptom of Austin's lack of investment and planning up until recently.

What large investment?

They did a couple intersections and some sidewalk segments, several of which will still be there whenever (eventually, maybe) after the North Lamar rail segment goes in. There seem to be quite a few sidewalk segments in the existing RoW that would presumably become the inner of the two (sidewalk/paths) in the final design.

[freerover]

Originally Posted by Enghum

None of the 2016 Mobility Bond Corridor Program investments in North Lamar look like they will survive. In the grand scheme of a $10 billion project it's small but still frustrating to see a large investment that's going to be torn up in 10 to 15 years. It's not that I think that it's been a bad project or useless but these are investments that should have been make 10 to 15 years ago. An obvious symptom of Austin's lack of investment and planning up until recently.

Most of the 2016 corridor work has not been done so that money hasn't been spent. They've only done a few early outs but the big contracts don't go out until next year. The money saved can be shifted elsewhere like how the Riverside corridor money was shifted to Airport Blvd due to the Blue Line.


The Feds approved 50% funding for both the new Expo and PV BRT lines so that's good. The south Lamar BRT extension wasn't funded.

[freerover]

Originally Posted by enragedcamel

I'm in Windsor Park. Is there a reference map somewhere that shows how and when these various transportation improvements would start affecting me?

[freerover]

Great article explaining one of the many many reasons Musk's tunnels are so fucking stupid.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/05/28/the-financial-pickle-facing-elon-musks-las-vegas-loop-system/

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by freerover

The south Lamar BRT extension wasn't funded.

My understanding is that they haven’t applied yet for that one. They haven’t started the public outreach process for it.

[Enghum]

Originally Posted by Novacek

What large investment?

They did a couple intersections and some sidewalk segments, several of which will still be there whenever (eventually, maybe) after the North Lamar rail segment goes in. There seem to be quite a few sidewalk segments in the existing RoW that would presumably become the inner of the two (sidewalk/paths) in the final design.

There's about 7 intersections improved north of 183 that I'm not seeing anything survive in the schematics. There's about a mile or more of shared use path that was just finished towards Walnut Creek that's not pictured in the aerials these are based off of.

As for the bridge we'll see! I expect project connects costs and budgets will be debated for the next decade. Out of the entire project the bridge, station lengths, and aerial guideways are the easiest places to cut costs.

Federal funds start at a % of costs during the initial budget. Hopefully more like 60% for what we're building but 50% has been the standard deal a lot of systems get. Once the built in budget contingency has been exhausted then all the budget increases burden falls on the local contributor. You are also forced to complete the project or return federal funds in full. Honolulu rail is the worst case scenario example. We're constructing about 3 miles of subway including a tunnel under a river. It's going to be high risk no matter what and we are currently only estimating and guessing at what our construction bids are going to come in at. DART's D2 subway plan is 1 mile of at grade and 1.1 miles below grade in their downtown. They are farther along than us in the design and engineering phase and have a budget of $1.7 billion just for that segment.



Station lengths in the diagram are about 400 ft. That's about a 4 length trainset of something shorter like Houston's Metro Rail or a 3 length trainset of DART.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Enghum

There's about 7 intersections improved north of 183 that I'm not seeing anything survive in the schematics. There's about a mile or more of shared use path that was just finished towards Walnut Creek that's not pictured in the aerials these are based off of.

There weren’t 7 intersections in the “early out” projects completed so far.

https://data.austintexas.gov/stories/s/North-Lamar-Boulevard-Corridor/fh8t-zcpn

And of those that have been done, several (like Powell) have the long term intersection in the existing RoW

[sarianrogue]

Originally Posted by Enghum

There's about 7 intersections improved north of 183 that I'm not seeing anything survive in the schematics.

The first phase of the orange line (the part that will be built in the next ~8 years) doesn't include construction north of 183 except the one stop at the N Lamar transit center just north of 183. No one really knows when the rest will be built because construction isn't funded yet but my guess is 10+ years.

The city did reallocate most of the 2016 bond funds from E Riverside to N Lamar (183 to Rundberg) and Airport Blvd (MLK to 183) recently to avoid doing a ton of work on E Riverside just to have the Blue Line come in and tear it up soon after. See this council Mobility Committee backup: https://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=356220

[Enghum]

Originally Posted by Novacek

There weren’t 7 intersections in the “early out” projects completed so far.

https://data.austintexas.gov/stories/s/North-Lamar-Boulevard-Corridor/fh8t-zcpn

And of those that have been done, several (like Powell) have the long term intersection in the existing RoW

I guess the improvements are not all corridor program then? The pavement is there and I've been watching the crews for the last 6 months but some of the work may have been from a little before that. Drive on Lamar up from 183 to Walnut Park and keep a look out for new sidewalks, curb cuts, ADA ramps, pedestrian bridge over little walnut creek, shared use path up from Braker to Walnut Creek. On the shared use path they included new driveways for about 12 parcels some of which are completely empty. I've gone through the diagram and most of what I'm seeing that's new is inside the future car lanes.

If things go to plan in the corridor and the orange line is extended and opened by what 2035? Then these improvements last about 15 years or a 1/4th of their design life. Anyways, that's the timeline I was talking about in my original post. In a well planned city these are basically previous generation improvements that should have been done 20 years ago.

When we were voting in 2016 the mobility bond was sold as a way to prepare for mass transit and coordination of improvements in corridors. We only have so much public resources to dedicate to transportation so the best case scenario is that we're not redoing work every 15 years. There's also planning resources that are now out of date. How much was spent on design and engineering of the Riverside and Guadalupe corridor that ended up not being used?

The pleasant valley / riverside and 24th / Guadalupe areas are completely different than the corridor program. Another piece of the corridor program, the Guadalupe bus lane contraflow that's an early out project is completely gone in Project Connect. Considering that land will be needed during construction of rail then the used life of the Guadalupe bus contraflow lanes is about 5ish years? Unless they take the southbound Guadalupe down to a single lane but that single lane still needs to handle all of the interim bus traffic.

All symptoms of basically completely changing transit plans for the city between 2016 and 2020 via different bonds. My assumption was that the corridor plan was working with a "future transit goes here" model where these released schematics make the corridor program look like it's in the way of project connect.

[The ATX]

Here are ROW cross sections for key points on the Blue Line:

















All drawings unsourced

[enthurzan]

Incredible design by Cap Metro. Dedicated lanes (aka transitways) are incredibly important for making transit competitive with cars. In Atlanta, their Downtown Streetcar is with traffic, and it is sooooo slow. Headways are sometimes >15 min, meaning it is just faster to walk.

Did y'all hear they are on Biden's shortlist for FTA grants? Very exciting. According to their timeline, they are just waiting on FTA grants now and if they get them, will break ground this winter.

[enthurzan]

Originally Posted by The ATX

Yeah, once the plans are officially made public, there will be a lot of upset people. I think the plans we have are for the ideal routes. The final plans are very much dependent on changes due to "neighborhood concerns" and local politics as well as updated cost projections.

Yea, typical NIMBY bullshit. It is the same crap with the land development code. Here's a question: Why should they change the design for say ~10 homeowners who are mad if the majority of the city supports the plan? It's the same thing with the land development code. Something like 70-80% of the city supports the updated Land Development Code, yet ~20 or so homeowners were able to sue and plug the project. For Project Connect, 58.25% of the voters approved Project Connect. Why should a tiny group of people be able to override the will of the majority? What does Spock say, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by enthurzan

Yea, typical NIMBY bullshit. It is the same crap with the land development code. Here's a question: Why should they change the design for say ~10 homeowners who are mad if the majority of the city supports the plan? It's the same thing with the land development code. Something like 70-80% of the city supports the updated Land Development Code, yet ~20 or so homeowners were able to sue and plug the project. For Project Connect, 58.25% of the voters approved Project Connect. Why should a tiny group of people be able to override the will of the majority? What does Spock say, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Very well said.

Also, in case anyone is wondering, I don't have the ROW cross section drawings for the Orange Line.

[freerover]

Originally Posted by The ATX

Very well said.

Also, in case anyone is wondering, I don't have the ROW cross section drawings for the Orange Line.

That was more than enough. I'm really tempted to draw all that out on a my google map but then I don't want half the city to freak out.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by freerover

That was more than enough. I'm really tempted to draw all that out on a my google map but then I don't want half the city to freak out.

Please do.

[Geckos_Rule]

Originally Posted by The ATX

Take the Blue Line from downtown to the airport. I'll make several posts until the trip is completed.

I remember plans showing a blue line stop for "rainey street/MACC."

Is this station entrance on what seems to be the Iron Works parking lot going to be it? While that's obviously close to Rainey, it seems a bit disingenuous to call that the "MACC" when it's several blocks away.... Like calling a stop at West Campus close enough for "DKR"....

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by Geckos_Rule

I remember plans showing a blue line stop for "rainey street/MACC."

Is this station entrance on what seems to be the Iron Works parking lot going to be it? While that's obviously close to Rainey, it seems a bit disingenuous to call that the "MACC" when it's several blocks away.... Like calling a stop at West Campus close enough for "DKR"....

That's not the Iron Works parking lot. It's currently where the Downtown Burgers food truck lot sits (just on the west side of Waller Creek). But yes, it would be more ideal if they could cross the lake a little further east (on the east side of Waller Creek) and go directly into the Rainey neighborhood before heading over to Trinity. For whatever reason, it may not be feasible. I have no idea. It's possible that the Waller Creek flood tunnel makes that more difficult?