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  #1261  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 1:19 AM
TheBrain TheBrain is offline
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I may have missed it but has there been any presentation on the changes to Montée Paiement if the Kettle island bridge gets built? It's almost 4km of homes and businesses with about 9 traffic lights.
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  #1262  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 2:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TheBrain View Post
I may have missed it but has there been any presentation on the changes to Montée Paiement if the Kettle island bridge gets built? It's almost 4km of homes and businesses with about 9 traffic lights.
The ultimate source of info is here, but many of the most recent documents links are dead:

http://www.ncrcrossings.ca/resources/


There's also some good information here, from 2013. I doubt much has changed since then.

http://www.bv.transports.gouv.qc.ca/mono/1146331.pdf
http://www.bv.transports.gouv.qc.ca/mono/1146341.pdf
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  #1263  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 7:35 AM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I'm sick and tired of study after study coming to the same conclusion. This is another example of Government inefficiency; we don't need to cut services or layoff thousands of employees to save money, we just need to NOT commission the same study over and over again, which always comes to the same conclusion.

Just build the dam thing already!

I can understand Pedneaud-Jobin's position because his city has little to gain with the bridge, especially since they need funds for the Aylmer-Ottawa tram, but Watson who claims to prefer transit solutions, while backing a truck tunnel that will be far more expensive and challenging is ridiculous. Ottawa needs to get trucks out of downtown, and if this is what the Feds offer, then take it! No way Doug will build the tunnel.
This is completely backwards. The trucks are a red herring. Basically it only takes the growth in trucks so 20 years from now the traffic will be the same as now. Some fantasy ideas about making all trucks use this route but frankly if that is what we want to do we could ban trucks now. Or make it for local traffic only. Island Parkway if NCC doesn't block and if they do points west via Shawville and east on the 50. Problem mostly solved. NCC would quickly relent anyway as retailers in Gatineau cry 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 murder.

There will be no carbon reductions for ever person who saves time driving from points east to east you will get 5 people who move there to commute to downtown/slightly East Ottawa. Many who probably previously lived in Orleans and took the bus.
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  #1264  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Is air quality a particular problem along King Edward? I lived for a number of years in Lowertown a block west of King Edward and I can’t say I ever noticed an issue.
I also have no idea whether it is an issue, but many types of pollution are odourless so you would not necessarily notice high levels of pollution.
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  #1265  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 11:12 AM
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I may have missed it but has there been any presentation on the changes to Montée Paiement if the Kettle island bridge gets built? It's almost 4km of homes and businesses with about 9 traffic lights.
Gatineau already completed what it considers to be most of the necessary upgrades to Paiement a few years ago.

What would be left is a new four lane divided road between the river and Maloney and an intersection or grade separation at St-Louis, and a rebuild and expansion of the A50 interchange. The latter is already planned, new bridge or not.

The rest of the route will remain pretty much as it is today.
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  #1266  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
This is completely backwards. The trucks are a red herring. Basically it only takes the growth in trucks so 20 years from now the traffic will be the same as now. Some fantasy ideas about making all trucks use this route but frankly if that is what we want to do we could ban trucks now. Or make it for local traffic only. Island Parkway if NCC doesn't block and if they do points west via Shawville and east on the 50. Problem mostly solved. NCC would quickly relent anyway as retailers in Gatineau cry 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 murder.

There will be no carbon reductions for ever person who saves time driving from points east to east you will get 5 people who move there to commute to downtown/slightly East Ottawa. Many who probably previously lived in Orleans and took the bus.
Forcing trucks down A50 or Shawville would add a significant amount of time (and emissions) to those truck routes. It would cost more to the economy than building the Kettle Island Bridge.

I don't know what the proportion of Ottawa bound vs TO/MTL bound truck traffic goes through King Edward, but I highly doubt truck traffic volume would ever come back near what it is today. Eventually, we might need to build a new west-end truck route.

I don't see a huge exodus of Ontarians towards Gatineau if a Kettle Island Bridge is built. Ontario offers low taxes, good health care and higher home prices. Gatineau has cheap education, low home prices, terrible health care and but high taxes. The culture is very different. I feel like most have decided where they want to stay.
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  #1267  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 12:45 PM
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This discussion seems to resurface every 8 to 10 years and always results in an outpouring of opposition from people in Orleans and Gloucester, who seem to think this will bring untold destruction to their way of life. I live in Orleans but I fully support a bridge, if only to bring this city out of the Disco Age.

I was there on Rideau when an old lady was killed by a dump truck some years back. I don't think she was the last. With everyone talking about bike lanes and pedestrian friendly amenities, how can we keep letting all these trucks proceed through the core all the while demanding more be done to get cars OFF the road?

The backwardness of this place astounds me. We are known for one of the least inspiring skylines, greatest concentration of visible homelessness, and a heavy truck and freight road going through a network that was never made to handle it.

Part of me wishes the feds would just step in and order it done, despite that I have absolutely no faith in them getting it right.
The crux of the matter right there. Heavy truck through traffic on narrow downtown city streets heading to an interprovincial bridge is so... Hawkesbury or Campbellton.
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  #1268  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 1:06 PM
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
This is completely backwards. The trucks are a red herring. Basically it only takes the growth in trucks so 20 years from now the traffic will be the same as now. Some fantasy ideas about making all trucks use this route but frankly if that is what we want to do we could ban trucks now. Or make it for local traffic only. Island Parkway if NCC doesn't block and if they do points west via Shawville and east on the 50. Problem mostly solved. NCC would quickly relent anyway as retailers in Gatineau cry 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 murder.
.
There are many problems with this logic.

For starters the NCC is about as likely to allow an open-air nuclear waste dump on Confederation Boulevard as it is to allow heavy truck traffic on Island Park/Champlain. It *might* allow heavy trucks on Aviation (an entirely non-residential route with no "prime" vistas) if Kettle Island is built, but even that will take some arm twisting. (Which I think would ultimately be successful.)

Prohibiting heavy truck traffic on any interprovincial route between Ottawa and Gatineau would lead to court challenges based on constitutional rights related to trade between the provinces. Not to mention the political fallout of doing something like that.

I have mentioned before that most of the truck traffic on King Edward is intra-metropolitan, with origins and destinations in Ottawa and Gatineau or vice versa: building supplies from Ottawa suppliers being delivered to Brigil jobsites in Gatineau, Slush Puppie syrup and machines from the Hull plant being delivered to corner stores all over Ottawa.

I am sure there are some but the number of trucks going from somewhere in Quebec east of Gatineau (ie the Montreal area or anywhere else) to Gatineau without having to stop somewhere in Ottawa first, is quite minimal at this point.

There is a considerable amount of population to the north and west of Montreal (Laval, Blainville, Boisbriand, Ste-Thérèse, Mirabel) and most companies have their delivery runs organized to do those areas first after which the trucks roll down the A-50 towards Gatineau and the small towns along the way.

And of course, all of the trucks that deliver stuff to Gatineau from places like the GTA and the U.S. have to get across some way. (After having delivered in Ottawa first, of course.) They're not going to cross at Shawville - actually the bridge is at Portage-du-Fort. Still a hell of a detour. Outside of the border region between Armenia and Azerbaijan perhaps, no one with a brain would impose a detour like that on commercial traffic.

Relations aren't always perfect, but I guess some people still missed the memo that Ottawa and Gatineau, and Ottawa and Gatinois aren't at war with each other. Not even politically.
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  #1269  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 1:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The crux of the matter right there. Heavy truck through traffic on narrow downtown city streets heading to an interprovincial bridge is so... Hawkesbury or Campbellton.
True, but is is worth $2B to fix? Some will say yes, I have my doubts...
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  #1270  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 2:24 PM
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I don't see a huge exodus of Ontarians towards Gatineau if a Kettle Island Bridge is built. Ontario offers low taxes, good health care and higher home prices. Gatineau has cheap education, low home prices, terrible health care and but high taxes. The culture is very different. I feel like most have decided where they want to stay.
I definitely agree with you. For all the hay made about it on here, transportation is very far from being the main thing that prevents Ottawa-area Ontarians from moving to the Quebec side en masse.

If you want proof of that just look at how many people are moving to areas with so-so or minimal transit (or at least giving transit minimal thought) and traffic-choked roads, but on the Ontario side of the river.
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  #1271  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2020, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
There are many problems with this logic.

For starters the NCC is about as likely to allow an open-air nuclear waste dump on Confederation Boulevard as it is to allow heavy truck traffic on Island Park/Champlain. It *might* allow heavy trucks on Aviation (an entirely non-residential route with no "prime" vistas) if Kettle Island is built, but even that will take some arm twisting. (Which I think would ultimately be successful.)

Prohibiting heavy truck traffic on any interprovincial route between Ottawa and Gatineau would lead to court challenges based on constitutional rights related to trade between the provinces. Not to mention the political fallout of doing something like that.

I have mentioned before that most of the truck traffic on King Edward is intra-metropolitan, with origins and destinations in Ottawa and Gatineau or vice versa: building supplies from Ottawa suppliers being delivered to Brigil jobsites in Gatineau, Slush Puppie syrup and machines from the Hull plant being delivered to corner stores all over Ottawa.

I am sure there are some but the number of trucks going from somewhere in Quebec east of Gatineau (ie the Montreal area or anywhere else) to Gatineau without having to stop somewhere in Ottawa first, is quite minimal at this point.

There is a considerable amount of population to the north and west of Montreal (Laval, Blainville, Boisbriand, Ste-Thérèse, Mirabel) and most companies have their delivery runs organized to do those areas first after which the trucks roll down the A-50 towards Gatineau and the small towns along the way.

And of course, all of the trucks that deliver stuff to Gatineau from places like the GTA and the U.S. have to get across some way. (After having delivered in Ottawa first, of course.) They're not going to cross at Shawville - actually the bridge is at Portage-du-Fort. Still a hell of a detour. Outside of the border region between Armenia and Azerbaijan perhaps, no one with a brain would impose a detour like that on commercial traffic.

Relations aren't always perfect, but I guess some people still missed the memo that Ottawa and Gatineau, and Ottawa and Gatinois aren't at war with each other. Not even politically.
A not insignificant amount of the truck traffic is fuel tankers. The terminals are all in Ottawa or Montreal, so Gatineau and areas around it are all served by Ottawa. They're also almost all B-Trains with two trailers, which seems even less compatible with downtown.

I would hazard a guess that most transport drivers would rather not be driving on downtown streets. If an alternate such as Kettle Island was available, I don't think we would need rules to keep trucks out of downtown, it would likely happen naturally.
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  #1272  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 11:40 AM
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How a tiny frog could halt plans for a bridge across the Ottawa River at Kettle Island
The western chorus frog — a greenish-brown swamp dweller about 2.5 centimetres long and weighing just one gram — is classified as threatened in parts of Ontario and Quebec.

Randy Boswell, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Sep 29, 2020 • Last Updated 1 hour ago • 5 minute read




With a major political battle looming in Ottawa-Gatineau over a proposed sixth interprovincial bridge, a tiny frog living in fragile habitats on the Quebec side of the Ottawa River is poised to leap into the fray.

The western chorus frog — a greenish-brown swamp dweller about 2.5 centimetres long and weighing just one gram — is classified as threatened in parts of Ontario and Quebec. The male’s “creaking” mating call, like a thumbnail run along the teeth of a comb, is the sound of spring in some parts of the country.

But the destruction of the petite tree frog’s feeding and breeding grounds in the Great Lakes region and St. Lawrence River watershed — including Ottawa Valley wetlands with semi-submerged trees and roots — has left the species vulnerable to extirpation and environmentalists highly protective of all remaining habitats.

Among those is a marshy area in Gatineau along the busy north-south artery Montée Paiement — within the development corridor of a proposed Kettle Island Bridge over the Ottawa River. The planned route across the island would connect Hwys. 417 and 174 in Ontario to Hwy. 50 in Quebec via Ottawa’s Aviation Parkway and Gatineau’s Montée Paiement, with both connector roads upgraded to accommodate the increased traffic they’d be handling.

But the frog’s presence complicates matters on the Quebec side — and there’s a precedent pointing to potential trouble.

In 2016, then-federal environment minister Catherine McKenna issued a controversial protection order under Canada’s species-at-risk law that halted part of a massive Montreal-area real estate development to safeguard western chorus frog nesting sites. The move angered not only the developer but also Quebec’s then-Liberal government, which condemned McKenna’s intervention as an unwarranted intrusion into provincial affairs.

But the Trudeau government’s action in the case was upheld by the Federal Court of Canada in a 2018 decision hailed by environmental groups as a landmark ruling for wildlife protection. And earlier this year, the Federal Court of Appeal denied a bid to overturn the 2018 court decision.

The Kettle Island corridor has been debated for decades in Ottawa-Gatineau, and is once again being examined by the National Capital Commission — along with two other possible east-end bridge routes — after the 2019 federal budget highlighted “the demonstrated need for an additional National Capital Region crossing” to divert heavy truck traffic from central Ottawa.

In June, the NCC dusted off a decade-old set of studies that had led to the agency’s 2013 recommendation to proceed with a bridge over Kettle Island. Public opposition at the time — especially among residents of Manor Park, Rockcliffe and other Ottawa communities near the Aviation Parkway approach to the proposed bridge — led the Ontario government to pull out of the project and the NCC to indefinitely shelve the idea.

The NCC’s June “refresh” report noted two significant changes in the past seven years in the proposed Kettle Island Bridge corridor: the identification of the frog habitat along Montée Paiement and the designation of Kettle Island itself as a Quebec nature reserve.

The revival of the bridge project has quickly rekindled the controversy that has surrounded it since the 1950s. Both Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson and Gatineau Mayor Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin have rejected the federal government’s assertion that a sixth bridge is needed, and have instead pushed to have available federal funding directed toward interprovincial mass transit and other initiatives.

But Gatineau Liberal MP Steven MacKinnon and McKenna — the Liberal MP for Ottawa Centre and now the federal infrastructure and communities minister — have both expressed strong support for a new bridge.

“People should be celebrating this,” McKenna said following the 2019 budget announcement. “It is a bit strange that we have heavy-duty trucks going through the centre of Ottawa. I think everyone would agree that’s sub-par … This is an opportunity to step back and have a holistic vision.”

The situation puts McKenna in a tricky position as both a vocal supporter of a new interprovincial bridge, and as the high-profile champion of western chorus frog habitat protection in the face of development pressures.

The NCC’s June study did not identify a preferred bridge route, but provided updates on a host of environmental, traffic and other factors that had led to the federal agency’s 2013 endorsement of the Kettle Island route over two other corridors farther to the east.

The two significant changes on the environmental front were noted in the report’s update on the proposed Kettle Island corridor. First, the uninhabited, 3.7-kilometre-long island over which the bridge would be built — owned almost entirely by the Nature Conservancy of Canada —was officially designated as a provincially protected natural area in late 2013.

And second, biologists who recently surveyed wildlife habitats for another development project in Gatineau identified western chorus frog habitat in the vicinity of Kettle Island along the bridge route connecting the major Ontario and Quebec highways.

The NCC-commissioned report stated that the island corridor “now presents new natural environment constraints as Kettle Island obtained status as a Nature Reserve under Quebec’s Natural Conservation Act and Western Chorus Frog habitat has been identified along Montée Paiement in Gatineau.”

The NCC report released in June wasn’t the only study conducted since the 2019 federal budget triggered the latest round of interprovincial bridge planning and squabbling.

A more comprehensive, 150-page, $1.4-million internal assessment prepared for Public Services and Procurement Canada — and obtained earlier this month by Radio-Canada — concluded that Kettle Island remains the preferred bridge option and that the crossing could be built for about $1.8 billion, $300 million less than either of the other two potential routes to the east at Lower Duck Island and McLaurin Bay.

In a statement provided to the Citizen, a PSPC spokesperson said the federal department “is still in the process of reviewing this (internal) assessment, and reviewing additional elements that have changed since 2011, including the approach to Indigenous consultations, environmental impacts, and transportation flows.”

Meanwhile, the Nature Conservancy says it’s legally required to oppose the construction of a bridge across the “ecologically rich and sensitive” Kettle Island.

“We are bound by two agreements that prevent us from building infrastructure on the land,” said the conservancy’s Montreal-based spokesperson Elizabeth Sbaglia. The group’s 2008 acquisition of the island under the Canadian Ecological Gifts Program requires it “to ensure that no infrastructure, public or private, will be built or developed on the island to protect its natural characteristics for the long term,” she said.

And the nature reserve designation under Quebec’s Natural Heritage Conservation Act similarly prevents new infrastructure from being built on Kettle Island, Sbaglia added.

The conservancy acknowledged, however, that legal protections for the island can’t “definitively exclude Kettle Island as an option” for a new bridge route.

Caroline Gagné, the Nature Conservancy’s program director for Western Quebec, said that’s because governments “could decide to use expropriation measures … Some laws have a priority over others.”

But expropriating a portion of Kettle Island for a bridge abutment “would create a precedent for all nature reserves across the province,” Gagné warned, “and would send a message that the protection in perpetuity cannot be guaranteed.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/how-a-tin...across-the-ottawa-river-at-kettle-island
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  #1273  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 1:14 PM
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Interesting timing in the context of the PM's position on biodiversity and habitat protection at the UN this week.
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  #1274  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 1:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
How a tiny frog could halt plans for a bridge across the Ottawa River at Kettle Island
The western chorus frog — a greenish-brown swamp dweller about 2.5 centimetres long and weighing just one gram — is classified as threatened in parts of Ontario and Quebec.

Randy Boswell, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Sep 29, 2020 • Last Updated 1 hour ago • 5 minute read




With a major political battle looming in Ottawa-Gatineau over a proposed sixth interprovincial bridge, a tiny frog living in fragile habitats on the Quebec side of the Ottawa River is poised to leap into the fray.

The western chorus frog — a greenish-brown swamp dweller about 2.5 centimetres long and weighing just one gram — is classified as threatened in parts of Ontario and Quebec. The male’s “creaking” mating call, like a thumbnail run along the teeth of a comb, is the sound of spring in some parts of the country.

But the destruction of the petite tree frog’s feeding and breeding grounds in the Great Lakes region and St. Lawrence River watershed — including Ottawa Valley wetlands with semi-submerged trees and roots — has left the species vulnerable to extirpation and environmentalists highly protective of all remaining habitats.

Among those is a marshy area in Gatineau along the busy north-south artery Montée Paiement — within the development corridor of a proposed Kettle Island Bridge over the Ottawa River. The planned route across the island would connect Hwys. 417 and 174 in Ontario to Hwy. 50 in Quebec via Ottawa’s Aviation Parkway and Gatineau’s Montée Paiement, with both connector roads upgraded to accommodate the increased traffic they’d be handling.

But the frog’s presence complicates matters on the Quebec side — and there’s a precedent pointing to potential trouble.

In 2016, then-federal environment minister Catherine McKenna issued a controversial protection order under Canada’s species-at-risk law that halted part of a massive Montreal-area real estate development to safeguard western chorus frog nesting sites. The move angered not only the developer but also Quebec’s then-Liberal government, which condemned McKenna’s intervention as an unwarranted intrusion into provincial affairs.

But the Trudeau government’s action in the case was upheld by the Federal Court of Canada in a 2018 decision hailed by environmental groups as a landmark ruling for wildlife protection. And earlier this year, the Federal Court of Appeal denied a bid to overturn the 2018 court decision.

The Kettle Island corridor has been debated for decades in Ottawa-Gatineau, and is once again being examined by the National Capital Commission — along with two other possible east-end bridge routes — after the 2019 federal budget highlighted “the demonstrated need for an additional National Capital Region crossing” to divert heavy truck traffic from central Ottawa.

In June, the NCC dusted off a decade-old set of studies that had led to the agency’s 2013 recommendation to proceed with a bridge over Kettle Island. Public opposition at the time — especially among residents of Manor Park, Rockcliffe and other Ottawa communities near the Aviation Parkway approach to the proposed bridge — led the Ontario government to pull out of the project and the NCC to indefinitely shelve the idea.

The NCC’s June “refresh” report noted two significant changes in the past seven years in the proposed Kettle Island Bridge corridor: the identification of the frog habitat along Montée Paiement and the designation of Kettle Island itself as a Quebec nature reserve.

The revival of the bridge project has quickly rekindled the controversy that has surrounded it since the 1950s. Both Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson and Gatineau Mayor Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin have rejected the federal government’s assertion that a sixth bridge is needed, and have instead pushed to have available federal funding directed toward interprovincial mass transit and other initiatives.

But Gatineau Liberal MP Steven MacKinnon and McKenna — the Liberal MP for Ottawa Centre and now the federal infrastructure and communities minister — have both expressed strong support for a new bridge.

“People should be celebrating this,” McKenna said following the 2019 budget announcement. “It is a bit strange that we have heavy-duty trucks going through the centre of Ottawa. I think everyone would agree that’s sub-par … This is an opportunity to step back and have a holistic vision.”

The situation puts McKenna in a tricky position as both a vocal supporter of a new interprovincial bridge, and as the high-profile champion of western chorus frog habitat protection in the face of development pressures.

The NCC’s June study did not identify a preferred bridge route, but provided updates on a host of environmental, traffic and other factors that had led to the federal agency’s 2013 endorsement of the Kettle Island route over two other corridors farther to the east.

The two significant changes on the environmental front were noted in the report’s update on the proposed Kettle Island corridor. First, the uninhabited, 3.7-kilometre-long island over which the bridge would be built — owned almost entirely by the Nature Conservancy of Canada —was officially designated as a provincially protected natural area in late 2013.

And second, biologists who recently surveyed wildlife habitats for another development project in Gatineau identified western chorus frog habitat in the vicinity of Kettle Island along the bridge route connecting the major Ontario and Quebec highways.

The NCC-commissioned report stated that the island corridor “now presents new natural environment constraints as Kettle Island obtained status as a Nature Reserve under Quebec’s Natural Conservation Act and Western Chorus Frog habitat has been identified along Montée Paiement in Gatineau.”

The NCC report released in June wasn’t the only study conducted since the 2019 federal budget triggered the latest round of interprovincial bridge planning and squabbling.

A more comprehensive, 150-page, $1.4-million internal assessment prepared for Public Services and Procurement Canada — and obtained earlier this month by Radio-Canada — concluded that Kettle Island remains the preferred bridge option and that the crossing could be built for about $1.8 billion, $300 million less than either of the other two potential routes to the east at Lower Duck Island and McLaurin Bay.

In a statement provided to the Citizen, a PSPC spokesperson said the federal department “is still in the process of reviewing this (internal) assessment, and reviewing additional elements that have changed since 2011, including the approach to Indigenous consultations, environmental impacts, and transportation flows.”

Meanwhile, the Nature Conservancy says it’s legally required to oppose the construction of a bridge across the “ecologically rich and sensitive” Kettle Island.

“We are bound by two agreements that prevent us from building infrastructure on the land,” said the conservancy’s Montreal-based spokesperson Elizabeth Sbaglia. The group’s 2008 acquisition of the island under the Canadian Ecological Gifts Program requires it “to ensure that no infrastructure, public or private, will be built or developed on the island to protect its natural characteristics for the long term,” she said.

And the nature reserve designation under Quebec’s Natural Heritage Conservation Act similarly prevents new infrastructure from being built on Kettle Island, Sbaglia added.

The conservancy acknowledged, however, that legal protections for the island can’t “definitively exclude Kettle Island as an option” for a new bridge route.

Caroline Gagné, the Nature Conservancy’s program director for Western Quebec, said that’s because governments “could decide to use expropriation measures … Some laws have a priority over others.”

But expropriating a portion of Kettle Island for a bridge abutment “would create a precedent for all nature reserves across the province,” Gagné warned, “and would send a message that the protection in perpetuity cannot be guaranteed.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/how-a-tin...across-the-ottawa-river-at-kettle-island
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  #1275  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 1:35 PM
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I doubt that any of this is news to anyone involved in planning a new crossing.
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  #1276  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 1:38 PM
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I wonder if there's a way to build the bridge in a way that does not impact Kettle Island. Perhaps a suspension bridge that goes over it. Yes, it will be more expensive, but it will protect the environment while providing the most efficient link between A50 and the 417.

As for Western Chorus Frog, I assume they are between St-Louis and the River. If the Quebec side pier is north of St-Louis, construction could mostly avoid the natural habitat.

Another solution might be to curve the route on the Quebec side, around the houses to connect with Jacques-Cartier and cross closer to the tip of Kettle. Maybe even a curved bridge. Again, that would make the crossing far more expensive, but that is the cost of balancing different priorities. The more we wait, the more challenging and expensive this project will be.
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  #1277  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 1:42 PM
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Is an inexpensive toll for cost recuperation an option?
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  #1278  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 1:45 PM
Gat-Train Gat-Train is offline
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
Is an inexpensive toll for cost recuperation an option?
If anything, the toll should be on the MC Bridge.

If we want to get trucks out of downtown, why not use the rivers and canal to move freight by barge? Build some port/truck/train terminal around Manotick, and then one on the Quebec side, possibly close to the existing rail alignment.
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  #1279  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 1:47 PM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
Is an inexpensive toll for cost recuperation an option?
That was discussed in the past with the tunnel option. I don't see why we couldn't do the same if a bridge was built. I wouldn't mind paying a dollar or two to cross at Kettle in order to save 15 minutes one-way.

I do wonder if there some sort of rule against forcing commercial trucks to use the one toll route?
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  #1280  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 1:58 PM
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Dengler Avenue Dengler Avenue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gat-Train View Post
If anything, the toll should be on the MC Bridge.

If we want to get trucks out of downtown, why not use the rivers and canal to move freight by barge? Build some port/truck/train terminal around Manotick, and then one on the Quebec side, possibly close to the existing rail alignment.
I asked the same, and it turned out that Ottawa River was too shallow to be navigable around NCC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
That was discussed in the past with the tunnel option. I don't see why we couldn't do the same if a bridge was built. I wouldn't mind paying a dollar or two to cross at Kettle in order to save 15 minutes one-way.

I do wonder if there some sort of rule against forcing commercial trucks to use the one toll route?
Not federally. In N.S., they built and tolled Cobequid Pass (N.S.-104) and banned trucks from N.S. Trunk Road 4. Granted, there’s another route: N.S. Trunk Road 2 but it’s so circuitous that nobody really uses it.
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