Interprovincial bridge crossing discussion

[eltodesukane]

Originally Posted by roger1818

EDIT: Here is a map I made a while back of the various Ottawa River Crossings.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1x2zSlFEgzypd3daD-pUzMLchoHW789Qz&usp=sharing

In Ottawa, no crossing is a proper highway to highway connection.
Macdonald-Cartier Bridge (A-5) comes close, but bugs down on Rideau street.

[Tesladom]

The original plan was to connect the end of 50 using a new bridge next to the rail bridge to Lebreton and eventually to 417 on west side

On east side there was supposed to be a link from McD-Cartier bridge across the Rideau river to what was then the new Vanier Pkway

Both didn't happen

I think this was called the Greber plan or something (circa 1950?)

[J.OT13]

Here's one of several highway plans of that era. The network was partially built as highways, and some corridors were used for Transitway/O-Train projects.

Originally Posted by 11a2b3

Ottawa-Hull Area Transportation Study, 1965:

https://www.facebook.com/LostOttawa/photos/a.380380215394542/3235936586505543/?type=3&theater

[Acajack]

According to a "secret" report obtained by Radio-Canada, the cost of a new crossing is now in the vicinity of 2 billion dollars.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/173...nquete-daniel-leblanc-capitale-nationale

(BTW this report is by Daniel Leblanc, who recently joined SRC from the Globe and Mail. He is the reporter who broke the sponsorship scandal story.)

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

According to a "secret" report obtained by Radio-Canada, the cost of a new crossing is now in the vicinity of 2 billion dollars.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/173...nquete-daniel-leblanc-capitale-nationale

(BTW this report is by Daniel Leblanc, who recently joined SRC from the Globe and Mail. He is the reporter who broke the sponsorship scandal story.)

I'm sure people will be absolutely shocked at the price tag, but it's not surprising at all. The more you delay, the more expensive it gets (far more than inflation when it comes to infrastructure projects).

[Tesladom]

English CBC report:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/government-report-sixth-bridge-over-river-1.5725934

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

English CBC report:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/government-report-sixth-bridge-over-river-1.5725934

Federal government withheld full report on 6th bridge over Ottawa River
Kettle Island 'preferred' corridor for new crossing between Ottawa and Gatineau

Daniel Leblanc · CBC News
Posted: Sep 16, 2020 12:03 PM ET | Last Updated: 5 hours ago



The federal government has been sitting on key findings from a new study into a sixth bridge over the Ottawa River, including cost estimates and the advice of experts on the best corridor for the project.

According to a report obtained by Radio-Canada, the "preferred" corridor for the new bridge between Ottawa and Gatineau would cross Kettle Island and cost an estimated $1.81 billion.

That's about $300 million less than the two other corridors under study, both located farther east.

These findings were not made public on June 25 when the National Capital Commission (NCC) unveiled a report produced by engineering firm WSP. The 34-page, $440,000 report didn't name a preferred corridor, nor did it lay out the estimated cost of the three corridors being evaluated. The report didn't include a rationale for a sixth interprovincial crossing, either.

There was no mention at the time that WSP had produced additional work on the bridge project for Public Services and Procurement Canada at a cost of $1.4 million. The report done for PSPC comes in at more than 150 pages, but bears the same title and graphic design as the NCC report.

Asked why the full report was not released to the public, PSPC told Radio-Canada that the findings were intended "for internal use."

According to the full report, the five existing bridges in the National Capital Region (NCR) are currently "functioning at capacity, such that virtually no additional traffic can be accommodated in the extended commuter peak hours."

The report predicts that despite changes in transportation models, "increasing travel demand will exacerbate the current capacity constraint over the Ottawa River," and notes that "addressing these deficiencies would improve transportation and goods movement in the NCR as well as support a breadth of economic, quality of life, safety, environmental and community benefits."

The full report concludes that the Kettle Island route, which would connect Highway 50 at Montée Paiement in Gatineau to the Sir George-Étienne Cartier and Aviation parkways on the Ottawa side, is the "technically preferred corridor."

The NCC does not use that expression in its publicly available summary.

The Kettle Island Corridor would be the least costly of the three proposed routes, would attract more truck traffic and public transit, offer "manageable environmental effects" and provide the biggest boost in terms of economic development, according to the report.

On the other hand, the report found that the Kettle Island corridor would create greater challenges in terms of "community impacts" because it passes through more densely populated areas.

The WSP report studied the potential impact each corridor on air quality, land use, the aquatic environment, transportation and economic development.

It concluded that the other two options — the Lower Duck Island corridor and the McLaurin Bay corridor — would cost $2.11 billion and $2.15 billion respectively. The Lower Duck Island corridor would link Highway 174 on the Ontario side to Highway 50 at Lorrain Boulevard, while the McLaurin Bay corridor would link Highway 50 to Highway 174 in the vicinity of the Gatineau airport.

The WSP report lays out a case for a sixth bridge by saying it would improve the quality of life for residents on both sides of the river, reduce auto emissions, accelerate the transit of goods and people, and reduce the movement of hazardous goods through the city cores.

A sixth interprovincial crossing, to be funded by the federal government, has been under discussion for decades. Proponents of the project argue it's urgent because the Alexandra Bridge is nearing the end of its lifespan and heavy transport traffic continues to clog downtown Ottawa.

However, both Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson and Gatineau Mayor Maxime Pednaud-Jobin oppose the project.

On Sept. 9, both mayors told Radio-Canada they would rather invest the money into improving public transit.

"That is the future in our view, not building a new bridge to send more traffic onto highways 417 and 416," Watson said in French.

"If we build a new bridge, cars will simply be stuck on a bridge instead of being stuck on Highway 50. There is no added value. The solution remains on the side of public transit," Pednaud-Jobin added.

The bridge report was commissioned as part of the 2019 federal budget. The federal government pointed out at the time that the five existing bridges are becoming steadily busier, with an estimated 150,000 vehicles and 9,000 pedestrians and cyclists crossing them daily.

The Liberal MP for Gatineau, Steven MacKinnon, supports the project.

"The need for a sixth crossing is urgent," he told Radio-Canada last week. "Transportation will remain, and even grow, as the main priority for elected officials in the region."

PSPC said there's still much work to be done before a final decision is made on a new bridge, including collecting more data about the impact of new public transit systems in both Ottawa and Gatineau.

"We will also examine the long-term impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic on commuting and commercial traffic in the region and undertake consultations with residents and other stakeholders as part of our path forward," said PSPC spokesperson Michèle LaRose.

The NCC said that it's waiting for direction from the federal government, but said next steps would include an impact assessment and public consultations.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/government-report-sixth-bridge-over-river-1.5725934

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Federal government withheld full report on 6th bridge over Ottawa River
Kettle Island 'preferred' corridor for new crossing between Ottawa and Gatineau

Daniel Leblanc · CBC News
Posted: Sep 16, 2020 12:03 PM ET | Last Updated: 5 hours ago



The federal government has been sitting on key findings from a new study into a sixth bridge over the Ottawa River, including cost estimates and the advice of experts on the best corridor for the project.

According to a report obtained by Radio-Canada, the "preferred" corridor for the new bridge between Ottawa and Gatineau would cross Kettle Island and cost an estimated $1.81 billion.

That's about $300 million less than the two other corridors under study, both located farther east.

These findings were not made public on June 25 when the National Capital Commission (NCC) unveiled a report produced by engineering firm WSP. The 34-page, $440,000 report didn't name a preferred corridor, nor did it lay out the estimated cost of the three corridors being evaluated. The report didn't include a rationale for a sixth interprovincial crossing, either.

There was no mention at the time that WSP had produced additional work on the bridge project for Public Services and Procurement Canada at a cost of $1.4 million. The report done for PSPC comes in at more than 150 pages, but bears the same title and graphic design as the NCC report.

Asked why the full report was not released to the public, PSPC told Radio-Canada that the findings were intended "for internal use."

According to the full report, the five existing bridges in the National Capital Region (NCR) are currently "functioning at capacity, such that virtually no additional traffic can be accommodated in the extended commuter peak hours."

The report predicts that despite changes in transportation models, "increasing travel demand will exacerbate the current capacity constraint over the Ottawa River," and notes that "addressing these deficiencies would improve transportation and goods movement in the NCR as well as support a breadth of economic, quality of life, safety, environmental and community benefits."

The full report concludes that the Kettle Island route, which would connect Highway 50 at Montée Paiement in Gatineau to the Sir George-Étienne Cartier and Aviation parkways on the Ottawa side, is the "technically preferred corridor."

The NCC does not use that expression in its publicly available summary.

The Kettle Island Corridor would be the least costly of the three proposed routes, would attract more truck traffic and public transit, offer "manageable environmental effects" and provide the biggest boost in terms of economic development, according to the report.

On the other hand, the report found that the Kettle Island corridor would create greater challenges in terms of "community impacts" because it passes through more densely populated areas.

The WSP report studied the potential impact each corridor on air quality, land use, the aquatic environment, transportation and economic development.

It concluded that the other two options — the Lower Duck Island corridor and the McLaurin Bay corridor — would cost $2.11 billion and $2.15 billion respectively. The Lower Duck Island corridor would link Highway 174 on the Ontario side to Highway 50 at Lorrain Boulevard, while the McLaurin Bay corridor would link Highway 50 to Highway 174 in the vicinity of the Gatineau airport.

The WSP report lays out a case for a sixth bridge by saying it would improve the quality of life for residents on both sides of the river, reduce auto emissions, accelerate the transit of goods and people, and reduce the movement of hazardous goods through the city cores.

A sixth interprovincial crossing, to be funded by the federal government, has been under discussion for decades. Proponents of the project argue it's urgent because the Alexandra Bridge is nearing the end of its lifespan and heavy transport traffic continues to clog downtown Ottawa.

However, both Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson and Gatineau Mayor Maxime Pednaud-Jobin oppose the project.

On Sept. 9, both mayors told Radio-Canada they would rather invest the money into improving public transit.

"That is the future in our view, not building a new bridge to send more traffic onto highways 417 and 416," Watson said in French.

"If we build a new bridge, cars will simply be stuck on a bridge instead of being stuck on Highway 50. There is no added value. The solution remains on the side of public transit," Pednaud-Jobin added.

The bridge report was commissioned as part of the 2019 federal budget. The federal government pointed out at the time that the five existing bridges are becoming steadily busier, with an estimated 150,000 vehicles and 9,000 pedestrians and cyclists crossing them daily.

The Liberal MP for Gatineau, Steven MacKinnon, supports the project.

"The need for a sixth crossing is urgent," he told Radio-Canada last week. "Transportation will remain, and even grow, as the main priority for elected officials in the region."

PSPC said there's still much work to be done before a final decision is made on a new bridge, including collecting more data about the impact of new public transit systems in both Ottawa and Gatineau.

"We will also examine the long-term impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic on commuting and commercial traffic in the region and undertake consultations with residents and other stakeholders as part of our path forward," said PSPC spokesperson Michèle LaRose.

The NCC said that it's waiting for direction from the federal government, but said next steps would include an impact assessment and public consultations.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/government-report-sixth-bridge-over-river-1.5725934

So we paid $440000 for a report that already existed? Talk about government efficiency

The blue is my favourite, and if trucks can use the Aviation Parkway then we'll get all those trucks out of Lowertown.

[Harley613]

I have been saying for almost 20 years now that they will eventually spend more on studies than the bridge would have cost when they first started discussing it. Mark my words here: A sixth bridge will be built. It will be built at Kettle Island. Manor Park's chief bridge opponents will be dead or mostly dead by the time it is built. Millions more will be wasted in the debate over the years.

The mayors are funny thinking that public transit can alleviate the need for a sixth bridge. There isn't even a plan for improved mass transit beyond the little Rapibus corridor in East Gatineau. East Gatineau will grow like crazy over the next decades and the type of development is very car-centric. The trucks still need a sane solution, how will public transit help with that? It's pathetic that the mayors are protecting themselves by recusing themselves from this debate to protect themselves from a hot button issue.

If the bridges are at capacity (and we know they are) it's going to be a very interesting five or so years while the Alexandra is demolished and replaced, which will almost definitely occur before this

[J.OT13]

I'm sick and tired of study after study coming to the same conclusion. This is another example of Government inefficiency; we don't need to cut services or layoff thousands of employees to save money, we just need to NOT commission the same study over and over again, which always comes to the same conclusion.

Just build the dam thing already!

I can understand Pedneaud-Jobin's position because his city has little to gain with the bridge, especially since they need funds for the Aylmer-Ottawa tram, but Watson who claims to prefer transit solutions, while backing a truck tunnel that will be far more expensive and challenging is ridiculous. Ottawa needs to get trucks out of downtown, and if this is what the Feds offer, then take it! No way Doug will build the tunnel.

[Aylmer]

I can't help but give the arguments about improving livability in Lowertown along King Edward some major side eye.

There are a hundred things which could be done to go most of the way to both goals which would require pennies on the dollar of a bridge. Lane diets, more frequent crossings, centreline hardening at left turns, and safe speed limits are all little more than concrete planters and paint and could be physically accomplished by next week. Better than removing truck traffic, they would go a long way to making all traffic compatible with the urban environment. In fact, they'd be necessary even if we already had the sixth, seventh, or millionth bridge. But instead, the City and officials have quite explicitly made these tangible, easy improvements conditional on a new bridge or tunnel.

There are other arguments for the bridge, but saying that we want to shave off an average 150 seconds off motorists' commutes for $2B (for three to five years before demand elasticity snaps it back) just isn't dripping in the same moral righteousness as doing it to save lives and limbs on Rideau and King Edward. But scratch the surface and the concern appears skin-deep at most. At this point, it doesn't look like we're pushing a $2B bridge out of concern for the well-being of pedestrians and inner-city neighbourhoods - it looks like we're holding them hostage. And it's not a great look.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I can't help but give the arguments about improving livability in Lowertown along King Edward some major side eye.

There are a hundred things which could be done to go most of the way to both goals which would require pennies on the dollar of a bridge. Lane diets, more frequent crossings, centreline hardening at left turns, and safe speed limits are all little more than concrete planters and paint and could be physically accomplished by next week. Better than removing truck traffic, they would go a long way to making all traffic compatible with the urban environment. In fact, they'd be necessary even if we already had the sixth, seventh, or millionth bridge. But instead, the City and officials have quite explicitly made these tangible, easy improvements conditional on a new bridge or tunnel.

There are other arguments for the bridge, but saying that we want to shave off an average 150 seconds off motorists' commutes for $2B (for three to five years before demand elasticity snaps it back) just isn't dripping in the same moral righteousness as doing it to save lives and limbs on Rideau and King Edward. But scratch the surface and the concern appears skin-deep at most. At this point, it doesn't look like we're pushing a $2B bridge out of concern for the well-being of pedestrians and inner-city neighbourhoods - it looks like we're holding them hostage. And it's not a great look.

I certainly get what you're saying, but one can easily understand why they would not want to put all that effort and money into creating the world's prettiest urban heavy truck route.

[Aylmer]

For the officials beating their breast to drop $2B to save Lowertown, surely nothing - including the world's prettiest urban heavy truck route - is too good for the cause. Especially at a dime on the dollar and in a fraction of the time the bridge would take.

As for me, I'd settle for non life-threatening.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

For the officials beating their breast to drop $2B to save Lowertown, surely nothing - including the world's prettiest urban heavy truck route - is too good for the cause. Especially at a dime on the dollar and in a fraction of the time the bridge would take.

As for me, I'd settle for non life-threatening.

The Kettle Island Bridge is far more than saving commuters a few minutes or removing truck traffic from LowerTown.

• Avoid thousands of detours through downtown for east-Gatineau to east-Ottawa trips;
• Possible transit route to serve various Interprovincial destinations (National Archives, Gatineau Arena, Salle Odyssé, RapiBus, Canadian Aviation Museum, Montfort, CHC, NRC, La Cité, Consideration Line);
• Providing a reliable interprovincial bridge while others are often disrupted by temporary closures (Chaudière, MC), mid-term disruption (building trams on Portage) and replacement (Alexandra).

Removing interprovincial truck traffic goes far beyond safety. It's quality of life and the environment; having thousands of trucks everyday going through downtown, waiting at various traffic lights, creates significant emissions which diminishes air quality. The Kettle Island Bridge would likely shave closer to 30 minutes from truck routes, not just 150 seconds. That's 30 minutes fewer emissions x 2,000+ per day. That's a far more efficient route for the trucking companies.

We've also invested in trying to expand the tourism district east, with the Rideau Centre expansion, Ogilvy Square and the expanded OAG and Germain Hotel at the edge of the truck route.

I would 100% support narrowing the MC bridge or removing cars from Alexandra (or both). The Kettle Island Bridge should not be about adding road capacity, but re-imagining the regions mobility to make movements more efficient and clear downtown of unnecessary vehicular traffic.

[Aylmer]

The emissions and quality of life issues aren't truck-only things though. Or even problems which are mostly caused by trucks. Waller and King Edward are 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 streets even when there are no trucks around. If tomorrow all trucks disappeared from them, these streets would still be 95% as 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 and the air quality would still be bad. There are almost as many cars per hour that pass on MC-C than there are trucks per day. Honestly, if the only vehicles rumbling down KE/Waller were those 2500 daily trucks (roughly 0.5-1 vehicle per minute per direction), it'd be a significant improvement on all counts.

Basically what I'm saying is that the cars are and have always been the problem. We point the finger elsewhere and wait for some magic solution to wipe out all traffic. But the honest to God truth is that we subject ourselves to these speeds and volumes because we wilfully allow it. There's no one else to blame and all the bridges and tunnels in the world won't reduce traffic volumes on King Edward beyond the immediate short term.

I could really buy into what J.OT13 is suggesting, where we shift capacity from downtown to the periphery. We build six lanes at Kettle Island, at the same time that we narrow King Edward by six lanes. But that's not the vision that any public officials or organizations seem to be even hinting at. In fact, they've obstructed any attempt at tackling these quality of life issues, no matter how cheap or easy. And that's what gets me - the co-opting of valid vehicle-caused quality of life issues in order to get a new bridge, but without any intention to actually address them. The day the new bridge opens, the Steve Mackinnons of the world will drop Lowertown and the Market as if they never existed. This isn't a story unique to Ottawa - it's played out for as long as there have been cars stuck in traffic jams, and I don't see why we'd be the exception.

So if Waller and King Edward post bridge will still be the same Waller and King Edward we know and love today, I'd sooner we save ourselves the trouble and spend the $2B on any number of projects which will actually improve the quality of our city.

[J.OT13]

I've been saying all along; MacKinnon has been garbage at selling the bridge. He has to stop with his rhetoric that "we need a new bridge, period". He needs to start presenting the larger positive impact this new bridge could have.

Gatineau needs a guarantee that the Tram will be funded along with the bridge, and that Alexandra will be rebuilt to accommodate a future rail loop. Ottawa should be satisfied with the promise of a less congested downtown and the removal of truck traffic, so that they can then focus on implementing the new plan for the Market and creating a more pedestrian/cycling friendly environment along King Edward/Rideau/Waller.

[GradualFuture]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The Kettle Island Bridge should not be about adding road capacity, but re-imagining the regions mobility to make movements more efficient and clear downtown of unnecessary vehicular traffic.

The above is critical to the discussion. This forum typically frowns upon new car infrastructure, and fairly so given the widely accepted fact that more roads leads to more cars. Thankfully, the Kettle Island Bridge is purely a bandwidth increasing exercise like adding another lane to an already busy highway.

The economic arguments that strongly support this, IMO, are:

• Fix King Edward finally, for good (?).
  
• Economic redesign and recovery of North-West Lowertown (an idealist like myself would expect this is done along with ample social and housing services contribution).
  
• Wider revival of eastern downtown core. Less cars, more people, more desirable.
  
• Wider regional economics of lower trucking cost.
  
• Intangibles around reducing inter provincial traffic that merely passes thru Ottawa.
  
• Jobs for wider NCR area.
  
• Critical Infrastructure for Eastern Gatineau

I find it interesting that Watson is anti-bridge and that it is stirring up so much political news. Simplest interpretation I can comprehend is Kettle bridge means less money for mass transit infrastructure investment. So a shrewd politician would turn their nose to any big project EXCEPT for the big one they believe in, which is clearly Stage 3 LRT. The feds need to actively promote a plan for the region that involves the Bridge, Stage 3 LRT and Gatineau LRT so the politicians don't have to play the hardball game publicly.

Personal note, god I hate big shipping trucks going thru the downtown streets. It is a purely emotional reaction on my part, but it feels so stupid and reflects a failure of the 3 tiers of government for the past 40 years to allow it to persist. I wish the city would charge them a levy at the crossings to pass thru Ottawa.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

The emissions and quality of life issues aren't truck-only things though. Or even problems which are mostly caused by trucks. Waller and King Edward are 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 streets even when there are no trucks around. If tomorrow all trucks disappeared from them, these streets would still be 95% as 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 and the air quality would still be bad. There are almost as many cars per hour that pass on MC-C than there are trucks per day. Honestly, if the only vehicles rumbling down KE/Waller were those 2500 daily trucks (roughly 0.5-1 vehicle per minute per direction), it'd be a significant improvement on all counts.

Basically what I'm saying is that the cars are and have always been the problem. We point the finger elsewhere and wait for some magic solution to wipe out all traffic. But the honest to God truth is that we subject ourselves to these speeds and volumes because we wilfully allow it. There's no one else to blame and all the bridges and tunnels in the world won't reduce traffic volumes on King Edward beyond the immediate short term.

I could really buy into what J.OT13 is suggesting, where we shift capacity from downtown to the periphery. We build six lanes at Kettle Island, at the same time that we narrow King Edward by six lanes. But that's not the vision that any public officials or organizations seem to be even hinting at. In fact, they've obstructed any attempt at tackling these quality of life issues, no matter how cheap or easy. And that's what gets me - the co-opting of valid vehicle-caused quality of life issues in order to get a new bridge, but without any intention to actually address them. The day the new bridge opens, the Steve Mackinnons of the world will drop Lowertown and the Market as if they never existed. This isn't a story unique to Ottawa - it's played out for as long as there have been cars stuck in traffic jams, and I don't see why we'd be the exception.

So if Waller and King Edward post bridge will still be the same Waller and King Edward we know and love today, I'd sooner we save ourselves the trouble and spend the $2B on any number of projects which will actually improve the quality of our city.

Is air quality a particular problem along King Edward? I lived for a number of years in Lowertown a block west of King Edward and I can’t say I ever noticed an issue.

[Aylmer]

Air quality isn't something I'm an expert on. I know a lot more about questions of pedestrian safety and comfort, and the impacts of traffic on street life. I only mentioned air quality because J.OT13 brought it up. It's not a principal concern of mine, but it's just because it's not in my field/something I'm aware of.

[Postmaster]

This discussion seems to resurface every 8 to 10 years and always results in an outpouring of opposition from people in Orleans and Gloucester, who seem to think this will bring untold destruction to their way of life. I live in Orleans but I fully support a bridge, if only to bring this city out of the Disco Age.

I was there on Rideau when an old lady was killed by a dump truck some years back. I don't think she was the last. With everyone talking about bike lanes and pedestrian friendly amenities, how can we keep letting all these trucks proceed through the core all the while demanding more be done to get cars OFF the road?

The backwardness of this place astounds me. We are known for one of the least inspiring skylines, greatest concentration of visible homelessness, and a heavy truck and freight road going through a network that was never made to handle it.

Part of me wishes the feds would just step in and order it done, despite that I have absolutely no faith in them getting it right.