Interprovincial bridge crossing discussion

[Cre47]

Of course of the major issues of transportation here is bridge congestion during the morning and afternoon on the Ottawa River bridges and especially the Gatineau River bridge crossings not to mention the truck traffic in the downtown core causing further congestion at times.

There are 3 bridges only connecting the Gatineau and Hull sectors, one of them where half of it was under fully reconstruction (Lady Aberdeen Bridge), another will need some major refurbishing and structure work (Des Draveurs Bridge) and the third one will eventually have to need repairs soon (Alonzo Wright Bridge). For many and many years there are calls for a sixth bridge which will likely be in the east end as there is almost a unanimous political opposition for a west end crossing and there is no need for a west end crossing now.

The east end crossing is much more important for now as to divert the trucks away. If the bridge is across the Kettle Island, I think it would be another possibility to add a connection between the Rapibus and Transitway with an OC or STO line that would run from the Rapibus to St-Laurent Station (or Hurdman - perhaps downtown) via the Aviation Parkway in a designated bus lane. I think with new crossings, transit should also be considered there.

[lrt's friend]

All new major bridges in the urban area should have a reserved transit lane or a separate transit ROW. All new major bridges should be designed to be architecturally attractive. Make it a positive to have a house with a view of the bridge.

[Deez]

I'm going to have a field day with this one when I get off work.

Until then, consider these O-D numbers for all trips leaving the Quebec side in the morning (taken directly from the O-D survey trip database).

Ottawa Centre 12669
Ottawa Inner Area 5403
Ottawa East 2041
Beacon Hill 1566
Alta Vista 3677
Hunt Club 857
Merivale 2487
Ottawa West 3426
Bayshore 1242
Orleans 860
Rural East 47
Rural Southeast 68
South Gloucester 156
South Nepean 159
Rural Southwest 398
Kanata/Stitts 1112
Rural West 117
Gatineau (internal) 41844

[Acajack]

I guess these figures would include the whole area from Quyon and Luskville in the west to Buckingham in the east.

For the purposes of a new bridge in the east, we’d have to narrow things down to see where people in the old city of Gatineau are going to work, as I suspect most of the people going to Ottawa West, Kanata and Bayshore probably live in Aylmer and the Plateau de la Capitale area instead.

[Deez]

Yeah...(also from the OD survey)

Work Trips from Aylmer and Plateau.

District Total AM Work Trips
Ottawa Centre 2987.443294
Ottawa Inner Area 1347.371181
Ottawa East 342.9849204
Beacon Hill 425.1611223
Alta Vista 1123.956996
Hunt Club 362.5809178
Merivale 774.0538366
Ottawa West 1253.623001
Bayshore 509.5938909
Orleans 178.0614634
Rural East 17.5528886
Rural Southeast 17.97923161
South Gloucester 29.66074405
South Nepean 39.47742006
Rural Southwest 170.1921906
Kanata/Stitts 342.9544667
Rural West 20.21954511
"Quebec Side" 6473.758207

These queries can even be broken down by what bridge was used by the respondent...but that gets a little messy.

I'm starting to question why I'm providing this info when I'm whole-heartedly against the bridge serving as a commuter corridor.

[Cre47]

Considering that few people in Gatineau had interest in the consultation process and that many in Ottawa seems to be against the project because of the NIMBY effect and the fact that it is not real problem to them (at least the suburbs say so). Maybe we should concentrate on the transit bridge from now on.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Cre47

Considering that few people in Gatineau had interest in the consultation process and that many in Ottawa seems to be against the project because of the NIMBY effect and the fact that it is not real problem to them (at least the suburbs say so). Maybe we should concentrate on the transit bridge from now on.

Actually, from what I read from Le Droit, the issue from the Ottawa people is that they don't want to pay one cent for this bridge, and it's not their problem if Gatineau people want to work in Ottawa. They can't have both, low mortgage and fast ride.

[eemy]

It really seems to me that the bridge would primarily benefit Ottawans. Certainly some Gatinois who work in the eastern end of Ottawa at Montfort, for example, would likely take advantage of a new bridge in the east end; however, I have a hard time believing that Quebec commuters would use the 417 to get to downtown Ottawa when there are excellent connections on the Quebec side.

The prime reason to build this bridge seems to be to direct truck traffic off of King Edward. In that respect, the bridge almost entirely benefits Ottawans, or more specifically, those living in Lowertown and Vanier.

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by Cre47

Considering that few people in Gatineau had interest in the consultation process and that many in Ottawa seems to be against the project because of the NIMBY effect and the fact that it is not real problem to them (at least the suburbs say so). Maybe we should concentrate on the transit bridge from now on.

Le Droit and the rest of the media are creating controversies out of non-issues. The people of Ottawa won't be "paying for the bridge" any more or less than the people of Gatineau, Ontario and Quebec, and Canada for that matter, since the NCC is into it.

The francophone media is stirring shit because they want the bridge at Kettle Island and they think they will make their case stronger by shedding light on a supposed anglo anti-Gatinese conspiracy. The anglo media is studiously skirting the issue that the bridge is needed FIRST AND FOREMOST for truck traffic.

Let's all keep our eyes on the ball here. Commuter bridges, transit bridges, all the rest of the philosophical re-invention of the wheel, will only serve to distract, delay, and procrastinate.

WE NEED A BRIDGE AT KETTLE ISLAND, LINKING THE AVIATION PARKWAY TO THE 417, SPECIFICALLY FOR TRUCKS SO THEY CAN BE REROUTED FROM DOWNTOWN.

All other considerations are secondary.

[Acajack]

Actually, from what I read from Le Droit, the issue from the Ottawa people is that they don't want to pay one cent for this bridge, and it's not their problem if Gatineau people want to work in Ottawa. They can't have both, low mortgage and fast ride.

Well, people are going to decide at some point once and for all if we’re going to be one region or not. A lot of people like to talk a good game on “Ottawa-Gatineau” but then when there’s talk of improving links between the two sides of the river, there’s always a big hue and cry in Ontario about people from Gatineau coming over to work in Ottawa. On the other hand, other than from the urban planning crowd, there is interestingly enough very little public controversy when new roads and bridges (that will of course funnel more traffic into downtown Ottawa) are built on the Ontario side.

Last time I checked, people in Gatineau are still Canadian citizens (some of them fiercely loyal in fact) who are fully entitled to work pretty much wherever they wish in Canada, and their needs are no less valid than those of people living in Carleton Place, Manotick and Arnprior, no matter what language either group primarily speaks.

In Gatineau, there is already a buzz about how the “improvements” on King Edward (with fewer, narrower lanes) are actually meant to make life more difficult for people from Quebec coming into Ottawa and, more broadly, how Ottawa cops supposedly take their sweet time cleaning up rush hour accident scenes on any of the interprovincial bridges’ approach roads.

[harls]

The RCMP routinely set up morning checkpoints at Wellington/Portage bridge, nabbing single-occupant scofflaws that fly down the bus lane... but I've never seen cops at the other end in Gatineau doing the same thing in the evening...hmmmmmm....

.. ah, what do I care, I take the bus!

[Acajack]

Hey, you should care! Those bozos who illegally use the bus/HOV lane jam it up for those of us who play by the rules by taking the bus or carpooling!

I’ve never seen any police anywhere patrolling the dedicated lanes in the evening rush. I regularly see Gatineau police enforcing them in the morning rush however, especially along Fournier and Maisonneuve.

[Mille Sabords]

Good for the RCMP to do this... now if only our city's boys in blue could get serious about enforcing the downtown Transitway. I can't count the number of times I've seen cars trying to turn right from Albert onto Bay, and clogging up the Transitway when they get backed up. Basically, they cancel rapid transit service across the core for the benefit of one or two light cycles' worth of their time. That, and the frikkin' bike lane on the Laurier Bridge, which apparently is really just a parking lane for people picking up their spouses at DND - and if you happen to be biking across the bridge then that's TMFB for you.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Hey, you should care! Those bozos who illegally use the bus/HOV lane jam it up for those of us who play by the rules by taking the bus or carpooling!

Yeah, I was just joking. I like it when they're about halfway down the bridge, then realize there's a roadblock and try to squeeze back into traffic, and other drivers refuse to let them in. Serves 'em right.

Further west, I don't get why the Champlain Bridge HOV lane is only 2 people when it's 3 on Portage. Why is that the case? Maybe because of the alternating lane it's more efficient? I'm trying to think if the Jacques-Cartier and Champlain Bridges in Montreal are 2 person HOV lanes too, they have the same setup.

[Deez]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

SPECIFICALLY FOR TRUCKS SO THEY CAN BE REROUTED FROM DOWNTOWN.

All other considerations are secondary.

Too bad the terms of reference doesn't specify that. There's a pretty significant focus on choosing the corridor based on maximizing utility to car traffic. Boo politicians.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by Deez

Too bad the terms of reference doesn't specify that. There's a pretty significant focus on choosing the corridor based on maximizing utility to car traffic. Boo politicians.

That's not really the worst thing in the world....Kettle would probably still make sense. Too far east or west and the car utility drops so....

[waterloowarrior]

Public consultation round 3

includes more detailed drawings of some of the alternative alignments

if you're interested, in the reports section there's a memo regarding a possible downtown tunnel (and why that option was discounted). it also has some alignments/cost info

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Actually, from what I read from Le Droit, the issue from the Ottawa people is that they don't want to pay one cent for this bridge, and it's not their problem if Gatineau people want to work in Ottawa. They can't have both, low mortgage and fast ride.

Well, people are going to decide at some point once and for all if we’re going to be one region or not. A lot of people like to talk a good game on “Ottawa-Gatineau” but then when there’s talk of improving links between the two sides of the river, there’s always a big hue and cry in Ontario about people from Gatineau coming over to work in Ottawa. On the other hand, other than from the urban planning crowd, there is interestingly enough very little public controversy when new roads and bridges (that will of course funnel more traffic into downtown Ottawa) are built on the Ontario side.

Last time I checked, people in Gatineau are still Canadian citizens (some of them fiercely loyal in fact) who are fully entitled to work pretty much wherever they wish in Canada, and their needs are no less valid than those of people living in Carleton Place, Manotick and Arnprior, no matter what language either group primarily speaks.

In Gatineau, there is already a buzz about how the “improvements” on King Edward (with fewer, narrower lanes) are actually meant to make life more difficult for people from Quebec coming into Ottawa and, more broadly, how Ottawa cops supposedly take their sweet time cleaning up rush hour accident scenes on any of the interprovincial bridges’ approach roads.

No one is claiming that they don't have the right to work in Ottawa the question is should the City of Ottawa and Ontario pay for 1/3 or more of the project. I would argue no, and as someone who lives next to King Edward I would have the most to gain personally by re-routing the trucks. Ottawa's money is better spent on projects that benefit Ottawa/Ontario taxpayers (even thought many of those commuters continue to claim Ontario residency for income tax purposes

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

No one is claiming that they don't have the right to work in Ottawa the question is should the City of Ottawa and Ontario pay for 1/3 or more of the project. I would argue no, and as someone who lives next to King Edward I would have the most to gain personally by re-routing the trucks. Ottawa's money is better spent on projects that benefit Ottawa/Ontario taxpayers (even thought many of those commuters continue to claim Ontario residency for income tax purposes

I live downtown as well and I have a different view. My Ottawa, Ontario tax money will be well spent if we get a new bridge that redirects truck traffic away from the downtown core. The Ottawa interest in this bridge isn't commuters, it's trucking. Specifically, a more efficient truck route so that the goods movement industry can go about its business without being forever stuck in traffic, and the reclaiming of a very central part of the city to accommodate the intensification we so dearly want.

[Cre47]

According to the Sun, the choice has been made: It's Kettle Island. Maybe not a shocker for most of us here.

Originally Posted by Aedan Helmer

Kettle Island picked for new bridge

By AEDAN HELMER, Sun Media

Kettle Island has been chosen as the site of a controversial new interprovincial bridge to span the Ottawa River.

The decision is expected to be made public Thursday morning at a joint news conference held by the National Capital Commission, the ROCHE-NCE consulting firm that performed environmental assessments of each proposed site, and the Ontario and Quebec ministries of transportation.

The location, one of 10 sites shortlisted more than a year ago, was endorsed by east end councillors Rainer Bloess, Rob Jellett and Bob Monette.

But the decision to build at Kettle Island has riled community groups and outraged east end politicians who fought to keep the bridge out of their back yard.

"I just cannot believe it. I'm so upset," said Ottawa-Vanier MPP Madeleine Meilleur, who was informed of the decision during a ministry technical briefing yesterday.


Meilleur said the same site was proposed and rejected back in the 1960s, when the MacDonald-Cartier Bridge was eventually built at King Edward Ave.

"Now look at King Edward," she said. "They're just moving the problem to another built-in community. Instead of building the bridge for the next 50 years, they're building the bridge for the past 50 years. It's so shortsighted, no vision at all."

John Forsey, who heads the Manor Park Community Association, was also shocked and disappointed by the decision. He fought the NCC throughout the public consultation process, arguing that a bridge running through a nature preserve so close to the downtown core would have a "devastating" impact on both sides of the river.

"It would be devastating for the Aviation Museum, for the Rockliffe Flying Club. It would have a huge impact on the Montfort Hospital in terms of trucking, vibrations, noise and air pollution," said Forsey.

An earlier study had recommended the site based on allowing the highest volume of traffic, which Forsey said runs counter to the municipal planning priority of promoting public transit and relieving downtown congestion, not to mention the environmental impact of running a bridge through "a very delicate area" on Kettle Island.

Forsey and Meilleur endorsed an alternative site further east at Lower Duck Island. Meilleur said a bridge there would provide direct access to the Gatineau Airport, and the crossing would land on Greenbelt property already owned by the NCC, with no disturbance of established communities, and with easy access to Hwy. 174 and Hwy. 417.

She said the choice of Kettle Island was purely a "technical solution" concocted by engineers.

"Nobody wants the bridge there," she said. "We'll get back on the warpath and let's hope that we'll be able to have an agreeable solution with a lot of sense and a lot of good planning."