The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

But, back to the bland. Yeah. I don't go back to my former hometown of Peterborough very often, but when I do, I'm always shocked at how much blander it is than when I was a teenager in the late 90s. We used to have kind of an edgy downtown, and now all the hole-in-the-wall student-run restaurants serve pre-made Sysco food and all the locals just shop at the Costco.

I wonder how much of this has to do with these chains or generic products being new and exciting in Peterborough vs. old hat in Toronto.

In Atlantic Canada there tends to be a fairly vibrant scene of local businesses and regional chains, but every so often some new chain store opens up there years or decades after other places and temporarily becomes popular (e.g. IKEA, Lululemon, Urban Outfitters). I think the saddest one is people in Atlantic Canada who talk about one day trying an exotic chain called Denny's.

[kool maudit]

Canada is bland because the technocratic endgame is something like the airport. Good clean fun being had by people scanned and surveilled to the level of visible 🞵🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. Visa billed by drone server. So it's not our fault entirely. But some national push on the new, multicultural level would be good. Cancon. Funding. Hinterland who's who was a bit corny but I REMEMBER IT. Toronto is a mixed bag on this. The sheer human crush bends the boundaries, but it shouldn't take a city the size of Victorian London to get it.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by someone123

I wonder how much of this has to do with these chains or generic products being new and exciting in Peterborough vs. old hat in Toronto.

In Atlantic Canada there tends to be a fairly vibrant scene of local businesses and regional chains, but every so often some new chain store opens up there years or decades after other places and temporarily becomes popular (e.g. IKEA, Lululemon, Urban Outfitters). I think the saddest one is people in Atlantic Canada who talk about one day trying an exotic chain called Denny's.

Hipster Duck's post wounded my soul. I'm so fearful of that happening here, especially given there are hints of it already. St. John's still has a young, professional population by Canadian standards - but the province as a whole, where the vast majority of growth in St. John's comes from, is the oldest in the country, and growing older faster than anywhere else as young people leave for other provinces.

Especially now with so many businesses closed... there's a stillness, an overwhelming provincialism, that really... St. John's really has been consistently better than that, since ever. You can find middle-aged women here now who talk about buying Lululemon in Halifax the way my Mom talks about shows she's seen on Broadway. You can find people who would start a protest to get Taco Bell here. It's... hopefully fringe and not a chilling foreshadowing of what this place is becoming.

I'm GONE if it goes to 🞵🞵🞵🞵. Living in St. John's is a sacrifice. It's so small, so isolated, so expensive to leave. But it's 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 cool, especially if you're a Newfoundlander and reflected in everything around you. Without that... there's no reason to be here. I'll never understand why anyone lives in a suburban McMansion here. Ever. I don't get it. You might as well be in Markham and have access to TO's greater amenities.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Especially now with so many businesses closed... there's a stillness, an overwhelming provincialism, that really... St. John's really has been consistently better than that, since ever. You can find middle-aged women here now who talk about buying Lululemon in Halifax the way my Mom talks about shows she's seen on Broadway. You can find people who would start a protest to get Taco Bell here. It's... hopefully fringe and not a chilling foreshadowing of what this place is becoming.

There is a Real Housewives of Town wherein the ladies talk about having the latest fashions from Lululemon in Halifax.

The general population in Halifax can get excited about mediocre chains that don't exist there but there are still plenty of good independent local businesses (not just for food but clothing and other things). I think it is a positive sign that parts of the inner city now have major chain retailers while the secondary areas are full of mom and pops (vs. the 90's when the main areas had mom and pops and the secondary areas had nothing).

In another thread a while back we charted the downward trend of the kind of space the local alternative weekly could afford. In the hipstery days of the 90's they were in an old stone bank building, then a nice converted Victorian brick rowhouse, and now they're in a nondescript cheaper building. It was fun for scrappy startup companies to be able to afford grandiose office spaces in 1992 I'm sure but that environment existed because the economy was awful.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Hipster Duck's post wounded my soul. I'm so fearful of that happening here, especially given there are hints of it already. St. John's still has a young, professional population by Canadian standards - but the province as a whole, where the vast majority of growth in St. John's comes from, is the oldest in the country, and growing older faster than anywhere else as young people leave for other provinces.

Especially now with so many businesses closed... there's a stillness, an overwhelming provincialism, that really... St. John's really has been consistently better than that, since ever. You can find middle-aged women here now who talk about buying Lululemon in Halifax the way my Mom talks about shows she's seen on Broadway. You can find people who would start a protest to get Taco Bell here. It's... hopefully fringe and not a chilling foreshadowing of what this place is becoming.

I'm GONE if it goes to 🞵🞵🞵🞵. Living in St. John's is a sacrifice. It's so small, so isolated, so expensive to leave. But it's 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 cool, especially if you're a Newfoundlander and reflected in everything around you. Without that... there's no reason to be here. I'll never understand why anyone lives in a suburban McMansion here. Ever. I don't get it. You might as well be in Markham and have access to TO's greater amenities.

Why would they buy it in Halifax when they can just go to the Avalon Mall and buy it without the flight?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I'll never understand why anyone lives in a suburban McMansion here. Ever. I don't get it. You might as well be in Markham and have access to TO's greater amenities.

Family and friends.

I also didn't get that when I was younger, but now I realize that I'm likely always going to mostly live in Quebec for that one reason, even though I could live anywhere and Quebec obviously isn't objectively the single greatest place on the entire planet.

[ssiguy]

I am getting so sick of the PC movement of re-naming absolutely everything or tearing down statutes because they offend someone.

Maybe we should just get rid of all holiday names and call them "#🞵🞵🞵 holiday period". Christmas would be gone for obvious reasons, our New Years could offend the Chinese, Easter is religious, Victoria was a colonialist, Labour is too close to communism, Thanksgiving offends Natives, Rememberance glorifies war. Seriously, Canada is a Native word for "come to my village"..............such offensive cultural appropriation.

Such decisions harm the non-racist movement far more than they help them. Racism, sexism, homophobia, religious and ethnic bigotry are part of our history and culture and no amount of protest or political grandstanding is going to change that. Canada would not be Canada without these things as culture, by it's very nature, is exclusionary.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

Why would they buy it in Halifax when they can just go to the Avalon Mall and buy it without the flight?

The problem is that once it opens in Avalon Mall it is no longer the exciting new chain because soon everyone will have that stuff. It was the exciting new chain of 2015. There are new clothing stores to go to now that require a flight.

It is a social phenomenon that has nothing to do with Lululemon per se.

(I type as I wear some t-shirt I got at a conference 10 years ago.)

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I am getting so sick of the PC movement of re-naming absolutely everything or tearing down statutes because they offend someone.

Maybe we should just get rid of all holiday names and call them "#🞵🞵🞵 holiday period". Christmas would be gone for obvious reasons, our New Years could offend the Chinese, Easter is religious, Victoria was a colonialist, Labour is too close to communism, Thanksgiving offends Natives, Rememberance glorifies war. Seriously, Canada is a Native word for "come to my village"..............such offensive cultural appropriation.

.

What the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 are you on about now? No Chinese people are offended by New Years. They just celebrate again in late Jan/Feb with as much gusto as any other holiday. Jesus Christ take a chill pill. Yeah things change, you're probably lamenting the fact we can't use the words "🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵" and "Oriental" anymore.

[WarrenC12]

If you're looking for a June holiday, June 21st is...

https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1100100013248/1534872397533

As far as culture, this is what we could double down on. First nations culture is already a driver of tourism here in BC, the art is everywhere, totem poles, long houses, etc. are popular with foreigners.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

So this will annoy a lot of people, but one thing I like about living in Toronto compared to other parts of certainly Ontario, if not the rest of Canada, is that Toronto is heading in the opposite direction as much of the rest of the province.

I feel like the rest of the province is getting blander and blander. Meanwhile Toronto has finally shed its inferiority complex and a lot of its parochialism and has become much more exciting and it's doing its own thing for once.

Originally Posted by casper

I am not certain I would go along with that assessment. Growing up on the west coast it provides a different perspective.

Over the last 5-6 years there has been a new found focus in recognizing aboriginal culture as a founding culture. At many business functions it is now common place to recognize the historical territory of the relevant first nations community. The English /French cultural recognition is far more relevant east of the Rocky Mountains.

There is an increased awakening to our role within the pacific rim and the ties we have through Asia. Especially in Vancouver where aspects of Asia culture are a significant factor in our society.

I grouped these two posts together because they are similar in nature and make some really good points.

What both of you are saying is that Toronto is doing more "Toronto stuff" now (ie GTA, international, lots of US too as well) and Vancouver is doing more "Vancouver stuff" now (west coast, Salish, Pacific Rim, Asian, etc.).

I think it's going on in much of the country as well, with Newfoundland doing more Newfoundland stuff (Irish in America?) and of course Quebec is Quebec.

Getting back to the question that came to mind when reading Wave's message... what is the cement that holds Canada together when everyone is doing their own thing more and more?

I mean, I am not questioning cities and regions doing their own thing. Perhaps that's actually the key to a more harmonious future?

I just wonder what a future Canada will look like (and how viable it will be) if the tangible cement that holds us together is often stuff like Marvel blockbuster movies, Cristiano Ronaldo soccer jerseys, Gucci purses, dim sum, Amazon, Fortnite, Super Bowl parties, and Google.

[CivicBlues]

Happy Juneteenth everyone!

We can just rename all our holidays like the British! (May Bank Holiday, August Bank Holiday) We'll just call ours May Stat Holiday, August Stat Holiday to avoid confusion.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

There has to be an corollary to Godwin's law that applies to Skyscraperpage Canada threads.

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Francophones and Anglophones approaches 1, regardless of the subject matter at hand.

I nominate it should be called Acajack's Law

Second corollary:

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a discussion of the problem of defining Canadian identity approaches 1, regardless of the subject matter at hand.

Call it the Canadian as Possible Law.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I grouped these two posts together because they are similar in nature and make some really good points.

What both of you are saying is that Toronto is doing more "Toronto stuff" now (ie GTA, international, lots of US too as well) and Vancouver is doing more "Vancouver stuff" now (west coast, Salish, Pacific Rim, Asian, etc.).

I think it's going on in much of the country as well, with Newfoundland doing more Newfoundland stuff (Irish in America?) and of course Quebec is Quebec.

Getting back to the question that came to mind when reading Wave's message... what is the cement that holds Canada together when everyone is doing their own thing more and more?

I mean, I am not questioning cities and regions doing their own thing. Perhaps that's actually the key to a more harmonious future?

I just wonder what a future Canada will look like (and how viable it will be) if the tangible cement that holds us together is often stuff like Marvel blockbuster movies, Cristiano Ronaldo soccer jerseys, Gucci purses, dim sum, Amazon, Fortnite, Super Bowl parties, and Google.

Yes, we definitely need more broadcast our Regional identities in a better way. How many Americans just think of going to "Canada" like some kind of amorphous blob the same way they go to "California". If I had a dollar for every time have I told an American that I'm from Vancouver and their response being, "Oh I love Canada, Toronto is awesome!". How many times have I told a European the same and been asked if I speak French?

Go into any tacky souvenir shop in Vancouver and you'll see endless rows of Mountie-branded trinkets,Maple Syrup bottles, inukshuks, etc. Things that have at best a tenuous connection to the West Coast let alone Vancouver. It's like going into a gift shop in Disneyland and finding nothing but 10-gallon hats and Sopranos paraphernalia.

We need better branded regional identities for a country this size.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

So this will annoy a lot of people, but one thing I like about living in Toronto compared to other parts of certainly Ontario, if not the rest of Canada, is that Toronto is heading in the opposite direction as much of the rest of the province.

I feel like the rest of the province is getting blander and blander. Meanwhile Toronto has finally shed its inferiority complex and a lot of its parochialism and has become much more exciting and it's doing its own thing for once.

I've noticed this, too.

Originally Posted by hipster duck

But, back to the bland. Yeah. I don't go back to my former hometown of Peterborough very often, but when I do, I'm always shocked at how much blander it is than when I was a teenager in the late 90s. We used to have kind of an edgy downtown, and now all the hole-in-the-wall student-run restaurants serve pre-made Sysco food and all the locals just shop at the Costco.

You could never accuse Stratford of being edgy, but there's a fairly robust culinary culture here with individuals proudly doing their own thing (in a kinda hipster way, I suppose it needs be said as a caveat, as I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea and come here only to be disappointed).

[lio45]

Is Acajack's Law supposed to be unreasonable, though?

I imagine that on any Belgian discussion venue, on most topics, as the discussion gets longer, the probability that the differences between how Walloons and Flemish generally see things will get invoked or referenced approaches 1.

Is that supposed to be weird...? This duality kinda defines the country and thus will have a bearing on most issues.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by lio45

Is Acajack's Law supposed to be unreasonable, though?

I imagine that on any Belgian discussion venue, on most topics, as the discussion gets longer, the probability that the differences between how Walloons and Flemish generally see things will get invoked or referenced approaches 1.

Is that supposed to be weird...? This duality kinda defines the country and thus will have a bearing on most issues.

Out in Vancouver, you may have noticed, nobody really cares.

[JHikka]

Thread has officially gone from discussing racism to having an existential crisis over just about anything.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Out in Vancouver, you may have noticed, nobody really cares.

I'd go even further than that, I did not even get a chance to notice anything, because nothing even remotely connected to this ever came up.

This "two solitudes" thing is really an Eastern Canada one.

For all practical purposes, I could have been in Seattle for the past three months, except that my MasterCard has been billed in loonies.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Thread has officially gone from discussing racism to having an existential crisis over just about anything.

Actually, the question of renaming stuff like Newfoundland, Discovery Day, Amherst Street, etc. is pretty much on topic for this thread. Though I agree that Lululemon isn't.