The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by someone123

If you're talking about ethnically Asian folks then lots of them were born in Canada. What do you mean when you say Asians are touchy?

I mean the topic of Asians in Vancouver.

You have people flooding in with money, regardless of their race that factor will make the conversation more difficult.

I'm sure if a bunch of Wealthy Americans were flooding in(and it was visible) people would be upset.


FYI I think the way in which Asian Americans are discriminated by places like harvard (they must score way higher than blacks), is pretty much as intolerable as Jew quotas of a century ago.

Originally Posted by someone123

My experience with anti-racist stuff is that some of the most strident proponents tend to be upper and middle class white folks, maybe skewed toward middle age, who wish to be seen as allies of the right side.

Don't be shocked that this current day race hyseria might deeply resemble


((((((Flagellants are practitioners of an extreme form of mortification of their own flesh by whipping it with various instruments. Most notably, Flagellantism was a 14th-century movement, consisting of radicals in the Catholic Church. It began as a militant pilgrimage and was later condemned by the Catholic Church as heretical. The followers were noted for including public flagellation in their rituals. This was a common practice during the Black Death, or the Great Plague. ))))

Originally Posted by someone123

One stereotype in the US is the stay at home mom who lives in an upscale town in suburban Boston who hasn't personally seen a black individual in the last week but has 50 bumper stickers and a BLM sign up on the lawn of her million-dollar house (and she might be 1/16 Cherokee, according to legend).

I wish these people would just stick to crystals and dreamcatchers.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by LakeLocker

I mean the topic of Asians in Vancouver.

You have people flooding in with money, regardless of their race that factor will make the conversation more difficult.

It's true that Vancouver is home to a distinct group of individuals who imported large sums of money from China but they are a minority of Asian or ethnically Chinese residents of the city. The median resident of China is poor, not rich, compared to the median Canadian.

For what it's worth I think a lot of the portrayals of Vancouver on SSP are heavily distorted. Whether it's misher's xenophobic Vancouver that uses housing policy as an outlet for bottled up 1910-style anti-Chinese sentiment, or another dystopian version where hate crimes are commonplace.

By and large Vancouver's a low crime, kind of boring city where people get along pretty well. In terms of interracial harmony it's probably one of the best places on the planet. Ranting about race problems in Vancouver is kind of like ranting about the handling of covid in Australia. I'm sure they could have done better too, but eventually you need to make some concessions to the reality of typical outcomes on this imperfect planet in this time we live in.

FYI I think the way in which Asian Americans are discriminated by places like harvard (they must score way higher than blacks), is pretty much as intolerable as Jew quotas of a century ago.

I agree. Requiring higher academic standards of Asians is racist discrimination. There's no way to get around it.

Harvard has always been based around selling a mix of prestige and academic excellence. And they have a problem in that they must select a very small number of undergrads (1,000-2,000 or so for admission per year) out of a huge pool. If they just accepted the top 0.00001% of standardized test scores in the US they'd be selecting mostly based on noise.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Chinese person who lived in Vancouver for 7 years here.

Not only did I not experience any racism, but I observed this big transformation going on where upper and upper middle class white people would often marry, and have children with, Chinese Canadians like me. So, at the very least, in 30-40 years, a lot of people who will run British Columbia will be of some Chinese ancestry and visibly quite Chinese. This is already kind of happening.

And the thing about being on the receiving end of racism is that the “victim” has to always consider the social position of the person doing the offending.

The people who yell out racist slurs at Chinese people tend to be in a lower socioeconomic position than the Chinese people they’re trying to offend. Who’s actually losing in this case? If a crackhead on Hastings starts yelling at me on the bus, is he actually thwarting my ability to get a mortgage, or advance my career or raise a child who could become Chief Justice some day?

Neat, I had no idea you were of Chinese descent. Or have you mentioned it before? Seems like people on SSP "out themselves" now and then, but I tend to forget who's who and the identifiers get lost in the shuffle.

Hold on: duck is a well-known Chinese favourite, they're hanging in windows all over Chinatown, and authentic food experiences are de rigueur for hipsters, so I think this mnemonic is going to stick!

I'm glad to hear that you haven't been subjected to (much?) racism in your experience, and I can certainly understand your socioeconomic take on it, but it seems to me that it's still not right when, say, a crew of drunken yokels smoking outside a seedy bar shout slurs at minority passers-by.

Then again, cretins like that will hurl abuse at anybody, and I've certainly received my fair share when riding a bike by the less salutary watering holes of Stratford.

Then again again, one of the most untalked about elephants in the racist room in the US is the vicious bullying that blacks inflict upon East Asians in schools and elsewhere. It's a widespread phenomenon, but you rarely hear more than first and second-hand anecdotal accounts from the victims themselves because the media turns a blind eye to it (doesn't fit the narrative) and, of course, the very last thing a skinny Chinese or Korean kid is going to do is inform on the five hulking African-American classmates who regularly bash him around in the locker room.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I am an expert in test theory ...

For years I had an office next to the most notorious researcher in the country (perhaps the world) ...

LOL... and _I'm_ the one getting attacked by Warren here for "bragging too much about my experience and qualifications"

I wonder what he'd think of your post if he saw it!

[lio45]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Neat, I had no idea you were of Chinese descent. Or have you mentioned it before? Seems like people on SSP "out themselves" now and then, but I tend to forget who's who and the identifiers get lost in the shuffle.

Yeah, he's the one Chinese guy from Peterborough. Would have been easy enough to find - just look in the local phonebook for the one Chinese family name.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by lio45

LOL... and _I'm_ the one getting attacked by Warren here for "bragging too much about my experience and qualifications"

I wonder what he'd think of your post if he saw it!

He's providing direct experience to the topic at hand, and it's the first time I've heard it. Not the 100th.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

anti-Asian COVID19 related sentiment

But that's not really racism.

To illustrate (recycling a previous example), I guarantee that the following scenarios are perfectly realistic:

1) The planet is in the throes of "Haitian Flu". It can be observed that Jewish Montrealers, Arab Montrealers, Québécois, Asian Montrealers, Anglo Montrealers are all now more afraid of Black Montrealers than before.

2) The planet is in the throes of "Algerian Flu". It can be observed that Jewish Montrealers, Black Montrealers, Québécois, Asian Montrealers, Anglo Montrealers are all now more afraid of Arab Montrealers than before.

If you call that racism, you don't understand the concept.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

He's providing direct experience to the topic at hand, and it's the first time I've heard it. Not the 100th.

It's the first time you've heard MolsonExport brag about his qualifications?!?!?!? As a SSP Classic I'd say it ranks somewhere between Maple Creek and Okotoks. Where have you been?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by lio45

But that's not really racism.

To illustrate (recycling a previous example), I guarantee that the following scenarios are perfectly realistic:

1) The planet is in the throes of "Haitian Flu". It can be observed that Jewish Montrealers, Arab Montrealers, Québécois, Asian Montrealers, Anglo Montrealers are all now more afraid of Black Montrealers than before.

2) The planet is in the throes of "Algerian Flu". It can be observed that Jewish Montrealers, Black Montrealers, Québécois, Asian Montrealers, Anglo Montrealers are all now more afraid of Arab Montrealers than before.

If you call that racism, you don't understand the concept.

Afraid? That's not what I'm talking about.

Here's the definition of racism in case you need it:

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Chinese person who lived in Vancouver for 7 years here.

Not only did I not experience any racism, but I observed this big transformation going on where upper and upper middle class white people would often marry, and have children with, Chinese Canadians like me. So, at the very least, in 30-40 years, a lot of people who will run British Columbia will be of some Chinese ancestry and visibly quite Chinese. This is already kind of happening.

And the thing about being on the receiving end of racism is that the “victim” has to always consider the social position of the person doing the offending.

The people who yell out racist slurs at Chinese people tend to be in a lower socioeconomic position than the Chinese people they’re trying to offend. Who’s actually losing in this case? If a crackhead on Hastings starts yelling at me on the bus, is he actually thwarting my ability to get a mortgage, or advance my career or raise a child who could become Chief Justice some day?

Completely agreed. There's zero glass ceiling on a Vancouver-born kid who's ethnically Han Chinese. This kid could easily grow up to be PM or CEO of a major Canadian corporation.

For the record, I went into the Chinatown BMO at Main/Keefer a few times while really badly dressed (I'm always a very hands-on person, so dirty clothes) and it seemed the all-Asian staff looked down at me every time. They probably thought I was a DTES crackhead.

(They also found it "unconventional" that I withdrew a significant sum then left on foot... Very weird white guy!)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Here's the definition of racism in case you need it:

Exactly. And I rest my case that "the belief that, around January/February 2020, a visibly ethnic Chinese person that one randomly encounters in the Western World has a higher probability of having recently had a 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree personal connection to the city of Wuhan, or to Hubei province, or even just China in general, than a person that doesn't look Chinese" does not satisfy what you just quoted.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by lio45

Exactly. And I rest my case that "the belief that, around January/February 2020, a visibly ethnic Chinese person that one randomly encounters in the Western World has a higher probability of having recently had a 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree personal connection to the city of Wuhan, or to Hubei province, or even just China in general, than a person that doesn't look Chinese" does not satisfy what you just quoted.

So what? Does that mean I can verbally abuse them on the street? Your argument was based on something that didn't happen. Classic strawman.

The worst part of all of this is we determined later that very few cases came from travel with China. The local asian community was the first to use masks and stop meeting in crowds.

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by lio45

But that's not really racism.

To illustrate (recycling a previous example), I guarantee that the following scenarios are perfectly realistic:

1) The planet is in the throes of "Haitian Flu". It can be observed that Jewish Montrealers, Arab Montrealers, Québécois, Asian Montrealers, Anglo Montrealers are all now more afraid of Black Montrealers than before.

2) The planet is in the throes of "Algerian Flu". It can be observed that Jewish Montrealers, Black Montrealers, Québécois, Asian Montrealers, Anglo Montrealers are all now more afraid of Arab Montrealers than before.

If you call that racism, you don't understand the concept.

More relevantly it is a cold hard fact there are CCP supporters in Canada.

I'm not sure I'd be so keen on Germans if they were exporting nazis.

Ironically Russian Troll farms are perfectly ok to point out.

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

He's providing direct experience to the topic at hand, and it's the first time I've heard it. Not the 100th.

Except he doesn't provide shit. He stated that he was, rambled on about testing errors(when no one made the claim there isn't noise).

He ran from the hills when he realized his authority held no weight in the conversation. As I said above he's engaging in rather blatant gatekeeping/

[someone123]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

So what? Does that mean I can verbally abuse them on the street? Your argument was based on something that didn't happen. Classic strawman.

But is it not a strawman to harp on this idea that anybody on SSP Canada thinks it is acceptable for somebody to crudely verbally abuse Chinese people on the street in Vancouver? I doubt that a commonly-held belief, but your go-to tactic is to accuse people of being racist or supporting racism if they disagree with you. It is silly.

Beyond that I am skeptical that we can use the erratic behaviour of crackheads to gain insight into social norms in Vancouver.

I say this as somebody who has been verbally abused in a could-have-been-reported-as-a-hate-crime way by crackheads a few times in Vancouver and elsewhere. And the potential holder of multiple raceology and raceonomy PhDs from any number of online universities!

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's the first time you've heard MolsonExport brag about his qualifications?!?!?!? As a SSP Classic I'd say it ranks somewhere between Maple Creek and Okotoks. Where have you been?

Not nearly as much as your property dealings. Quebec, New Hampshire, Florida, now Vancouver. Am I missing some?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by someone123

But is it not a strawman to harp on this idea that anybody on SSP Canada thinks it is acceptable for somebody to crudely verbally abuse Chinese people on the street in Vancouver? I doubt that a commonly-held belief, but your go-to tactic is to accuse people of being racist or supporting racism if they disagree with you. It is silly.

That's not my go to. When have I accused you of racism?

I'm saying we have a racism problem in Canada, and it seems difficult to get people to agree. Funny those are the same people that have never experienced racism themselves.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

That's not my go to. When have I accused you of racism?

I guess the innuendo is hard to interpret...

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Are you trying to state that there's less racism in 2020 compared to 2019?

Poking a small hole in a significant argument and pretending "nobody knows the real answer" makes it look like you have an agenda.

Also:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Funny those are the same people that have never experienced racism themselves.

How do you know this?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by someone123

How do you know this?

So you've experienced racism? Do you think we have a racism problem in Vancouver?

I posted stats, you're throwing up road blocks without any proof.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

So you've experienced racism? Do you think we have a racism problem in Vancouver?

Ehh. I don't really believe in the "personal cred" thing. If I must answer to be listened to, I have experienced multiple people making fun of my ethnic background. Not sure how bad it has to be to qualify.

The worst "on the job" incident I experienced (years ago, not in Vancouver) was when a coworker told me "my kind" was disgusting and people like me didn't deserve to live. Perhaps you have been through such things, perhaps not.

When I talk about e.g. the distinction between verbal abuse and violent crime I do have some personal experience. I have friends who've been physically assaulted for being minorities; I don't consider that to be in the same range of harm as graffiti or crackheads yelling stuff.