The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[niwell]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Hear that folks? Lots of Black NL'rs...here from our leftover slave colony....

Not the most eloquent of tweets, but a number of slave ships were supposedly built in Newfoundland. Nova Scotia also did in fact have slaves at one point too. Remember, the British Empire only abolished it in 1834... And this was followed by periods of what amounted to indentured servitude for many.

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Her tweet was probably referencing the slave ships that were built in NL in the 1700s.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5240589

Or it wasn't. Either way, although the Maritime and Atlantic provinces received freed slaves from the US we also gave them the absolute worst land to develop and grow on and subsequently mistreated them for hundreds of years. We didn't enslave them but we weren't angels, either.

She loses me when she states "ever wonder why so many Black Canadians are from there?" with respect to Newfoundland....I mean....

9 chances out of 10 she probably couldn't even find NL on a map...

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

A lot of ex-soldiers become cops in Canada too. We still have disproportionately fewer of these instances.

I don't doubt that the police-military pipeline exists in a lot of places, but the scale of US military and paramilitary endeavours, and the massive inflow of armour, weapons, drones, and similar that come with that is not simply proportionate to population. It is a much larger phenomenon there, despite being a troubling one in Canada and other countries as well.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by niwell

Of course focusing on instances of looting is an excellent sop for those in charge to discredit the whole thing.

And is basically standard practice for authoritarians....

Like I said a lot of the folks dismissing these protests because of some violence today would have said the same thing about the Civil Rights fight in the US or Apartheid in South Africa. "Segregation is bad. But my god look at these looters!"

Here's MLK calling out such equivocation:

• Video Link

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

She loses me when she states "ever wonder why so many Black Canadians are from there?" with respect to Newfoundland....I mean....

9 chances out of 10 she probably couldn't even find NL on a map...

She's trying her best. Why do you feel the need to put her down like this? Because she's fRoM tOrOnTo?

Originally Posted by Acajack

Let's just say that if I were a small business owner in downtown Ottawa on Friday I wouldn't make any other plans other than watching my store.

Oh yeah, Ottawa...that city famously known for *checks notes* stepping on toes and *checks notes again* cutting in line at Shawarma Palace.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The difference today though is that virtually no one (worth listening to) in the U.S. is saying that the cops involved should get off scot free and that reforms aren't needed in the oversight of police work. Left or right.

What (some) people are objecting to is the notion that a) all police officers are corrupt, brutish pieces of shit and b) that because a) + that the U.S. is somewhere in the neighbourhood of Nazi Germany in its treatment of minorities, c) that any and all types of behaviour are forms of justifiable or at least comprehensible "resistance".

Those last points I just made are basically the flip side of people saying that "all looters should be shot", and which makes you get all irate.

If we step back and ask the question, where do we want to be in five years that defines what we aspire to accomplish and then we can start to talk about how do we get there.

If the goal is a police force that is blind to race. Great idea, but good luck with that. No one is going to be believes that doing some sensitivity training will will make this problem go away. Perhaps we need a deeper re-think of what policing is all about.

So, this event started with a fake $20 bill at a store. Under the law we have an evil doer and a victim. But is that really the case? The person who printed the fake money is the evil doer, everyone else in the chain of custody of that $20 is a victim. So why was the police arresting anyone to being with?

Even now there are hundreds of people being arrested for breaking curfew. Why is this even a law? Curfew is something parents impose on there kids so they get enough sleep to go to school next day.

I know one of the former elected chiefs of a first nations community here in BC that once told me growing up as a kid curfews were used by the police to arrest community members where off reserve, because the assumption was if they were off reserve they were up to no good. Silly law.

The reason these US cities have curfew laws is to make the jobs of the police easier. They don't need to wait for a real crime they can arrest anyone who looks like they may commit a crime simply for being outside after 8pm. What a load of nonsense. So how do they decide if the person looks like a criminal? What they are wearing? Their age? Other aspects of how they look?

Breaking into stores is a crime and they should be going after those.

Perhaps we need to rethink the whole policing thing from the ground up.

[casper]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I don't doubt that the police-military pipeline exists in a lot of places, but the scale of US military and paramilitary endeavours, and the massive inflow of armour, weapons, drones, and similar that come with that is not simply proportionate to population. It is a much larger phenomenon there, despite being a troubling one in Canada and other countries as well.

Here is BC there is a massive list of police organisations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_agencies_in_British_Columbia

Many of them are fairly specialized. CP Rail has its police force. WorkSafe BC has its police etc. The problem tends to be the general do everything police. Perhaps we are asking them to do to many different things and they are not well equipped.

I would not expect the police officer that investigates counterfeit money to be the same person that is called for a family violence case or the same one called for a burglary or someone running a red light.

Maybe the police that respond to family violence calls should have training in physiology and be integrated into the family services organisations. While the police that respond to a counterfeit $20 bill should know about commercial law and business.

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by JHikka

She's trying her best. Why do you feel the need to put her down like this? Because she's fRoM tOrOnTo?

Trying her best? At what? Making shit up to get likes and retweets?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Oh yeah, Ottawa...that city famously known for *checks notes* stepping on toes and *checks notes again* cutting in line at Shawarma Palace.

I am not a Super Ottawa Booster typically, but if young Ottawans aren't up to ransacking and looting the Rideau Centre, it is really a bad thing?

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Maybe fifty years ago ...

That's not correct. I know a lot of Canadians.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by casper

Here is BC there is a massive list of police organisations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_agencies_in_British_Columbia

Many of them are fairly specialized. CP Rail has its police force. WorkSafe BC has its police etc. The problem tends to be the general do everything police. Perhaps we are asking them to do to many different things and they are not well equipped.

I would not expect the police officer that investigates counterfeit money to be the same person that is called for a family violence case or the same one called for a burglary or someone running a red light.

Maybe the police that respond to family violence calls should have training in physiology and be integrated into the family services organisations. While the police that respond to a counterfeit $20 bill should know about commercial law and business.

The cops would not be arresting anybody for a fake $20 bill anywhere else. That's the difference. Get details. Write a report. Lay charges later if necessary. But in the US, this is the kind of overpolicing that leads to confrontation, violence and eventually deaths of African-Americans at the hands of police.

Think of Eric Garner who died in a similar fashion. Choked to death. For selling cigarettes.

Or the fact that 35 of 40 people arrested for violating Social distancing rules in New York City are black. What's the statistical likelihood that blacks broke social distancing rules to such an extent, more than any other racial group?

This is the result of overpolicing black communities. Not so much the lack of specialized police units or training.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am not a Super Ottawa Booster typically, but if young Ottawans aren't up to ransacking and looting the Rideau Centre, it is really a bad thing?

I think the point is that you're falling for the same hysteria as those who live in Bumfuck, Nebraska panicking that antifa is going to come to town and smash every window and rape all their women.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by casper

Even now there are hundreds of people being arrested for breaking curfew. Why is this even a law? Curfew is something parents impose on there kids so they get enough sleep to go to school next day.

I know one of the former elected chiefs of a first nations community here in BC that once told me growing up as a kid curfews were used by the police to arrest community members where off reserve, because the assumption was if they were off reserve they were up to no good. Silly law.

The reason these US cities have curfew laws is to make the jobs of the police easier. They don't need to wait for a real crime they can arrest anyone who looks like they may commit a crime simply for being outside after 8pm. What a load of nonsense. So how do they decide if the person looks like a criminal? What they are wearing? Their age? Other aspects of how they look?

Breaking into stores is a crime and they should be going after those.

Perhaps we need to rethink the whole policing thing from the ground up.

You seem to think that U.S. cities have curfews in effect all the time. These are special temporary measures that have been brought in in response to the serious level of unrest.

Under normal circumstances (i.e. up until a week or so ago), I would be surprised if any U.S. cities had a curfew in effect.

Even in high crime cities like Detroit there is generally no curfew AFAIK.

Curfews in place right now will almost certainly be lifted once things calm down.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

There's tons of racism even against Italians in Canada. That's true in the U.S. too though.

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

There is a lot of racism toward Canadian-Italians, though the same is true vis-à-vis Italian-Americans.

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

That's not correct. I know a lot of Canadians.

As an Italian-Canadian - uhhhhh, what?

[Truenorth00]

Trump wanted tanks to put down the protests:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world...ry-protests-national-guard-a9546786.html

An American version of 1989 Tiananmen Square.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I think the point is that you're falling for the same hysteria as those who live in Bumfuck, Nebraska panicking that antifa is going to come to town and smash every window and rape all their women.

Ottawa is a far cry from Bumfuck, Nebraska, but even if it was... there were riots and looting in places like Sioux Falls, South Dakota this week.

Oh and BTW: I am never hysterical.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Has this person ever stepped foot out of Toronto you think?


https://twitter.com/versaceangell/status/1267933611304640520



https://twitter.com/versaceangell/status/1267934004835213318




Hear that folks? Lots of Black NL'rs...here from our leftover slave colony....

Our main contribution was building slave ships and providing salted fish to feed slaves. It's not something we learn about in school but it's come up a lot in media over the past few years, especially when Black Lives Matter first sprung up.

Not a lot of black Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, especially compared to Nova Scotia, but we've some of course.

Some good news this week, though - a group of black locals have established a Black Lives Matter NL group. They've already succeeded in cancelling one white-organized protest that was supposed to take place in St. John's today. So grateful this group is willing to speak out on behalf of issues important to black people here. For too long it's only been lily white, angry, aggressively unforgiving social justice warriors (NOT activists) speaking on their behalf.

Hi everyone, people who were unable to listen to Coffee and Community and wanted to know the conversation that was had in that space. Here is a summary provided by an amazing ally Matt Wright

Representatives of the Black Lives Matter NL, Brian Amadi and Precious Familusi , sat in with Shannon Lewis-Simpson from MUN Coffee and Community to discuss the Black Lives Matter Movement in Newfoundland and Labrador and here’s a summary of the meeting in Bullet points;

* Black people and POC need allies to AMPLIFY black voices not overtake.

* All protests are to be peaceful and the mission is to prevent the outbreak of violence and observe social distancing rules while being heard.

*The previous protest were stopped and planning of the protest is going slowly because in a situation where the protests goes sideways, the consequences would fall on black members of our community.

* Not helpful to say there is no racism in Newfoundland. Like most of the world, Newfoundland has a history of racism(ancestors of NL built slave ships and provided fish to feed slaves)

*Continue to educate yourselves. Read, do your own independent research, and realize your privileges.

* BLM NL cannot can’t speak for all black people as all experiences are individualized.

* Hoping for more black empowerment in the community.

* There has never been “no racism” so we will have to continue to unlearn racism as we go.

* If you’re blind to reality, we are unable to move forward.

* A call to MUN for assistance with resources and an increase in representation in terms of more black professors.

*If you say something racist, don’t be defensive if you are called out. See it as a learning experience.

* Call out racist conversations in your own circle. Check each other, learn from each other. Moving forward is an ongoing process.

* Push for increased funding to marginalized communities.

* No politicians in Newfoundland have made statement on addressing racism in Newfoundland.

* Roughly 3% of the population of Newfoundland are black but they are significantly over represented in the prison system across Canada.

* Avoiding the conversation is not the answer. “I do not see colour” is offensive, not helpful and invalidates a black person’s experience.

* Black Lives Matter are open to conversation, allies, and working with community partners.

* Black Lives Matter NL would like to be allies to our indigenous community and recognize the struggles indigenous people go through in this province and understand that the death of Regis Korchinski-Paquet’s has also affected the indigenous community.

* Talk to our local politicians to create awareness. Put pressure on your local MPs to address these matters.

* Start following and sharing BIPOC accounts on your social media. Listen. Pay attention. Fill your feed with them. Re-post it.

We are grateful to all of you that have been with us this far. We shall overcome!

https://www.facebook.com/BLMNewfoundland/posts/109308654142635

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Maybe you should stop harassing people who don't buy everything you say and don't feel the need to kiss your ass. Do you think attacking me is going to change reality? Don't ask what's wrong with me. You're the one with the problems and I suggest you get help.

You don't understand English. Perhaps I should reply to your unhinged ramblings in French?

Don't bother replying. You are not worth wasting any more time on.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

She's trying her best. Why do you feel the need to put her down like this? Because she's fRoM tOrOnTo?
.

A reaction to people (especially from *certain* cities) blanketing Canada with U.S. narratives?

Not that in some cases there aren't some parallels, but the shortcuts often made can be a bit grating.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I don't doubt that the police-military pipeline exists in a lot of places, but the scale of US military and paramilitary endeavours, and the massive inflow of armour, weapons, drones, and similar that come with that is not simply proportionate to population. It is a much larger phenomenon there, despite being a troubling one in Canada and other countries as well.

I have noticed that in much of Canada, cops on patrol no longer wear anything that looks like a police uniform.

It's more like black or dark blue, "military sporty" or "sporty military" style pants and jackets, often with or without a shoulder patch with the police force crest, and a patch with the word POLICE either velcroed or sewn onto the back.