The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I'd argue that the only difference between George Washington and Robert E Lee is that Lee lost.

History is certainly written by winners. But it's rare to see losers given this much space. When you think about it, Southerners waving Confederate flags would be on par with Germans holding parades with Nazi flags. The latter would be condemned in Germany and around the world. The former is still very acceptable in the US.

[GeneralLea]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yet another example of how otherwise intelligent people can completely lose it these days.

Indeed, I found that to be very strange thing to say...

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I'd argue that the only difference between George Washington and Robert E Lee is that Lee lost.

Not much of an argument. Granted, 1776 was indeed about white slave owners yearning to be free, but the British were still in the business of slavery at that time too. Meanwhile, 1856 was essentially a referendum on slavery (if not pushing for outright abolition yet).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I'd argue that the only difference between George Washington and Robert E Lee is that Lee lost.

That and three or four generations of history, including abolitionist history.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

This is a thread about the real issue of racism in Canada. Stop trying to turn it into an Antifa fear-mongering thread, which is completely peripheral to the topic at hand. It sounds to me like you are complaining about people that are complaining about racism.

Oh, who is hosting the video?


Of course you would complain about NBC News and uphold far right garbage.

Maybe I should repost the above in a manner that emulates your posting style.



It is shameful that you would be peddling this stuff. In a thread about the racism experienced by Black Canadians. What the hell is the matter with you?

Maybe you should stop harassing people who don't buy everything you say and don't feel the need to kiss your ass. Do you think attacking me is going to change reality? Don't ask what's wrong with me. You're the one with the problems and I suggest you get help.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I'd argue that online forums like this go as far as any in allowing for various viewpoints. The right wing nutters banned from SSP were assholes first and foremost, and given the admitted biases of this forum, the banning of that Stalin-loving Maoist from Winnipeg was the exception that proves the rule: be an asshole, get banned.

Be a conservative who knows how to discuss things without throwing hissy fits and trolling everyone, and you don't get banned.

I'd love to hear some arguments from intelligent right wingers. But to be quite honest from experience I've found the understanding and intellect of those that truly own these views (rather than just claiming to be conservative because they like oil or dislike Trudeau or whatever) to be overwhelmingly weak. Mostly just parroting talking points from Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson. The ones that are intelligent and claim to be "right wing" usually aren't at all, they've just convinced themselves that what they are voting for is different than what it is.

I don't think it's any coincidence that intellectuals and the thoughtful media appears to be "left wing". It's inevitable as their views came from scientific analysis or thorough investigation, not gut feeling, fear and selfishness.

This goes the other way too. Those that claim to be proudly left wing are usually extremely fond of authoritarian government control and suppression of free speech.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by rousseau

The right wing nutters banned from SSP were assholes first and foremost, and given the admitted biases of this forum, the banning of that Stalin-loving Maoist from Winnipeg was the exception that proves the rule: be an asshole, get banned.

The mod decisions on SSP aren't based on political views, they're based on questions like whether the person is a jerk, whether or not they make multiple accounts to get around suspensions (stuff in the "forum rules" list), and how many warnings they've gotten.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by Edwara19

As a Jamaican-Canadian, I appreciate how most people here acknowledge that anti-black racism is still present in our society and within police forces across the country.

I do feel like I need to say that one thing that really bothers me is my community's unwillingness to address our own issues - issues that only we can solve.

While racial profiling and racism are problems that affect youth in our community, single-parent households are much more damaging to a child's development. I think StatsCan said somewhere between 25-30% of black Canadian children are growing up in single-parent households. The absence of father figures is wreaking havoc on our youth. As a result, young boys lack the stability and discipline that is required during their adolescence. While their mom's work to put food on the table, the kids are at home without supervision and eventually get involved in gangs. This is just one issue that our community needs to address. There are areas where society and the government have and continue to fail the black community, but the breakdown of the black family unit is often of our own doing. And you will see that in different black cultures (Nigerians), there is often both parents present, and an emphasis is always placed on education. The same can not always be said of Caribbean cultures in the GTA. We might not be able to change the police's perceptions of us, or even reduce racial bias, however, by having an intact family unit, our children will at least get the stability that's needed and ultimately the education that's required to be successful in this country.

I really appreciate the candor of your comments above. Every generation raises the next. If the family unit is broken, the likelihood you'll succeed in life is much less than it otherwise would. If it becomes a perpetual issue, you're doomed - doesn't matter what your background is.

Although even with a similar education, black Canadians still make significantly less than their white counterparts...but that's for another discussion.

We have to be very careful with these sorts of broad statements. If that's true, then we have to be aware that there could any number of reasons for it. Discrimination could be one of the them, it's true. There are also a hundred different ways someone could parse the data to suit certain ends. And to be perfectly frank, I believe it to be a terrible mistake to draw comparisons of any sort between the races - it just seems so antiquated...

[Wigs]

Women in Canada get paid 13.3% less /hr than men. It was 18.8% less in 1998
(Statcan 2018)

It would not shock me in the slightest if black men were paid less than white men in Canada for same job. It should not be that way and I don't have the data but I wouldn't be surprised. The old boomers that sign the cheques, and harbor racist sentiments towards blacks and natives or other minorities are still around.

Nothing should be shocking to people in 2020. This is the craziest year of our lifetimes.

It is terrible to think this is possible, but a white Canadian man's life is inherently easier than a black Canadian man's life. Our parents don't have to give us "the talk" growing up.
When we go to a store, no one working assumes we might steal something based on the pigment of our skin.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I don't know of any other country where a loser movement is celebrated like this.

I know of at least one: Canada. The 1837 rebels have a holiday honoring them, a bunch of statues and monuments in various towns, and Papineau is considered a hero and has tons of stuff named after him.

(I'm not that familiar with Manitoba but I have the feeling Louis Riel's "loser movement" is nowadays viewed in a positive light. If true then that's another example.)

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by lio45

I know of at least one: Canada. The 1837 rebels have a holiday honoring them, a bunch of statues and monuments in various towns, and Papineau is considered a hero and has tons of stuff named after him.

(I'm not that familiar with Manitoba but I have the feeling Louis Riel's "loser movement" is nowadays viewed in a positive light. If true then that's another example.)

MB has a holiday in his honor.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I've been wondering what makes the US policing problem so different from the rest of the developed world.

US police are trained and armed by the same military (and paramilitary) complex that brought you hits like Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya.

Every new war pushes the police further in the direction of behaving like occupying soldiers with maybe a 3-5 year lag. As the US' current portfolio of wars are never won and don't end, it's pretty much a continuous drip.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

I'm not sure about that. I suspect that the vast majority of SSP forumers are white, upper-middle class, male urbanites. Gay men seem to be over-represented in this forum which is understandable, I suppose. One thing I can say for sure is that there is little-to-no diversity of opinion here but then that merely reflects the discourse of the time, our education system and the medium.

Couldn't have said it better.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by someone123

Left-wing groups have a real problem with tolerance for hazy boundaries between physical violence and abuse vs. healthy conflict or mere differences in opinion.

I agree, it's a question often asked of them by right wingers, when has the left gone too far. And it's never answered, a right winger could answer with racial superiority, that's too far, alt right, KKK you're not part of this.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by lio45

I know of at least one: Canada. The 1837 rebels have a holiday honoring them, a bunch of statues and monuments in various towns, and Papineau is considered a hero and has tons of stuff named after him.

(I'm not that familiar with Manitoba but I have the feeling Louis Riel's "loser movement" is nowadays viewed in a positive light. If true then that's another example.)

Guy Fawkes would fit the bill too. Perhaps not to the same extent or in the same way.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

I agree, it's a question often asked of them by right wingers, when has the left gone too far. And it's never answered, a right winger could answer with racial superiority, that's too far, alt right, KKK you're not part of this.

It's extremely hard to admit that lefties can be violent extremists too because that side has always been stereotyped as compassionate and morally virtuous. At least in most of the western world (up until very recently), that stereotype was not completely undeserved.

Of course, leftist extremism and nastiness has a long history elsewhere in the world. In this sense our lefties might simply be catching up to the rest of the planet.

[JMKeynes]

There's tons of racism even against Italians in Canada. That's true in the U.S. too though.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

US police are trained and armed by the same military (and paramilitary) complex that brought you hits like Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya.

Every new war pushes the police further in the direction of behaving like occupying soldiers with maybe a 3-5 year lag. As the US' current portfolio of wars are never won and don't end, it's pretty much a continuous drip.

A lot of ex-soldiers become cops in Canada too. We still have disproportionately fewer of these instances.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Not much of an argument. Granted, 1776 was indeed about white slave owners yearning to be free, but the British were still in the business of slavery at that time too. Meanwhile, 1856 was essentially a referendum on slavery (if not pushing for outright abolition yet).

Washington - Traitor to the Crown
Lee - Traitor to the Union

Washington - Virginia Slave Owner
Lee - Virginia Slave Owner

Washington - Colonial Gentry
Lee - Southern Gentry

The American Revolution (or the 1st North American Civil War) was more about Colonial Gentry being pissed at the crown for not allowing them to kick the first nations out of lands west of the Appalachians than paying taxes to the crown for defeating the French in North America.

But as True North said, history is wrote by the victors and if the Rebels of the 13 Colonies had lost, who knows what would have followed.

[Acajack]

So last night my kids offered me some insight into social media channels and groups where young people are very active.

Let's just say that if I were a small business owner in downtown Ottawa on Friday I wouldn't make any other plans other than watching my store.

I suppose that this kind of chatter is happening in every other large city, and that in some cases it leads to mayhem, and it many others it leads to nothing.

One can imagine that trouble-makers are always there in the crowd these days, and they size up the situation and if any opportunities materialize, they jump on them and it snowballs from there. If not, they simply stand down.

In other news, Ottawa mayor Jim Watson will be joining the march on the U.S. embassy in Ottawa on Friday to protest the death of George Floyd and remind our neighbours that black lives matter.

According to the media he has almost never taken part in any protests before, on Canadian or international issues. That's surprising to me if true.