Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I don't think this model of train can be ordered without being two ended and probably not a good idea anyways as it limits the flexibility of the deployment of the fleet. We have all seen the models available and none of them are long enough to meet our needs as single cars.

I'd like the next fleet to remove some of the seats and replace them with proper bike racks.

[migo]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

They are dumb

Herding the 'sheeple'

[eltodesukane]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

New addition to Lyon Station and, I'm sure, all other stations eventually.

Doors don't quite align, however.


https://twitter.com/Milnoc/status/1185231380504109063

Maybe should have platform doors like in Hong Kong MTR Mass Transit Railway.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Maybe should have platform doors like in Hong Kong MTR Mass Transit Railway.

There was talk of adding "suicide doors" like you have pictured but the cost would be significant....and it's just one more mechanical thing that can malfunction. I think as people get more accustomed to the system they will act accordingly and everything will run more smoothly.

[RationalPhi]

The platform doors also don't work for asymmetric door layouts, as our trains have.

[Dengler Avenue]

What’s that smell on the train?

=====

For context, I got on at Pimisi. The first impression was actually great. I like how you can access the train on both sides of the road, unlike most of the stations on Canada Line...

Edit: Also I find it interesting that security personnel needs to blow the whistle twice to say it’s clear to go.

Edit: It took half an hour to go from Tunney’s to Blair. Is that on the low side?

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

What’s that smell on the train?

=====

For context, I got on at Pimisi. The first impression was actually great. I like how you can access the train on both sides of the road, unlike most of the stations on Canada Line...

Edit: Also I find it interesting that security personnel needs to blow the whistle twice to say it’s clear to go.

Edit: It took half an hour to go from Tunney’s to Blair. Is that on the low side?

There's one train people keep mentioning has a smell, but I've never been on it.

The whistle people are only around until December (at least for now), it's for safety during the initial switchover.

The travel time is supposed to be 25 minutes, which is about the same as the transitway was outside of rush hour, and the average speed of 31km/h is comparable to the 32km/h of the Canada line, but slower than the 40km/h of the expo line or the Montreal Metro. The TTC subway is the slowpoke of the bunch at 28 km/h. Average speed of course includes dwell times at stations.

I don't think any other rolling stock in use in Canada can match the acceleration of the LIM based skytrains on a flat stretch. Montreal had the smart idea of allowing gravity to do the work and so there's a downhill portion leaving each station, and an uphill as you come in to assist with braking. Also of course the rubber tires help acceleration

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

And already people standing straight in the middle of the things while it clearly means that you have to board from the side of the doors... ... Gonna start thinking that people in Ottawa are just straight up dumb

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

They are dumb

To be fair, Montreal and Toronto felt it was necessary to add those stickers 50+ years after their subway systems opened. I'm sure they continue to have offenders.

[sseguin]

Posted today on the O-Train Fans youtube channel, POV videos REAR VIEW end-to-end in both directions.

Blair to Tunney's Pasture - REAR VIEW - 8x Speed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpMrQBQOnP0

Tunney's Pasture to Blair - REAR VIEW - 8x Speed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHgNH_RGEAU

Blair to Tunney's Pasture - REAR VIEW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9RvqvuIaz8

Tunney's Pasture to Blair - REAR VIEW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmobVyzhxOk

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by RationalPhi

They posted a less sped up version where it's more obvious that the buses do get backed up quite often (then satisfyingly clear out). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI7W58hjxA8

This reminds me of Stockholm..again.

Slussen station was insane when I was there. I stood in a queue for a bus that took 4 artics to clear. Not only that, but everyone lined up nicely at each of the bus stops, and the bus had to BACK OUT of the parking space to carry on. It was insanity, but all very well organized, quiet, and managed.

Had to walk about 400m, and then down 5 storeys to get to the platform. AND we all walked back up at the end of our bus journey.

AND it's a temporary thing, while their major transport system is totally overhauled. They're building a buried highway, multiple train lines, and bus routes, all over a flowing river, in the middle of downtown. And you though WE had it bad. Thousands of people per day hiking up these godawful stairs...

anyways. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDO3ex7drpU

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I've never been on any other "light-rail" system, but I take your point on the non-open gangway subways. There is quite a difference between the Montréal Azure and the MR-73s or Vancouver's Mark I (12.7 meter cars), II (33.4 meter cars) and III (full 76 meter or so open train).

I hope that by the time we order trains for Stage 3, we can challenge manufacturers to come up with a full 100+ meter light-rail vehicle. As we've seen in Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto, manufacturers were eventually able to figure it out for heavy rail. Why not light rail?

Sidenote, Boston's new Chinese subway fleet order sticks with individual 20 meter cars. That's shocking to me considering open gangways are the new norm. Terrible decision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Line_(MBTA)#Rolling_stock

Sure a 100m vehicle could be put together (a married pair). Whether you'd want to before you get close to maximum theoretical capacity is another matter. It really isn't a solution to current problems. One reason why it matters less for light rail is that the flat floor is constrained already by the wheels, so the benefits of passengers spreading out over time are less. And yeah, are the loading issues mostly from the stub end where everyone is transferring at one station? The problems will ease when the line is expanded, and with a very short ride from the west, spreading will happen less.

With longer vehicles, you need expanded maintenance facilities with 100m pits, lifts and gangways. You also need the ability to retrieve 100m vehicles from anywhere on the network.

[rocketphish]

Stranded commissioner blasts continued lack of info in latest LRT breakdown

Norman Provencher, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: October 21, 2019

OC Transpo once again had the unfortunate luck of stranding one of its own commissioners in the middle of a 30-minute stoppage Monday afternoon.

Sarah Wright-Gilbert, one of five citizen commissioners on the city’s 12-member transit commission, began tweeting at about 12:20 p.m. that the eastbound train was stopped in Cyrville Station, with passengers provided only the bare minimum of information on the cause or ETA for service resumption.

“Currently stuck on an #LRT train at Cyrville station (EB track),” Wright-Gilbert tweeted.

“The train started to leave the station and then came to an abrupt halt. The announcement from the operator (after about three minutes) was ‘please expect delay. We will be moving shortly’.”

There followed a series of messages as Wright-Gilbert searched for an OC Transpo “ambassador” at the station to provide more information, to no avail.

After about 10 minutes she tweeted: “No @OC_Transpo ambassadors on train platform. I ran up to the bus platform and found one and he has no information.”

“None of the staff at Cyrville station (including ambassador and supervisor) were able to give me any information,” she tweeted. “The ambassador refused to come down to the train platform to talk to folks (even after I suggested it might be a good idea). This isn’t his fault. He needs the info.”

A replacement train finally arrived, and finally began moving, slowly at about 12:50 p.m.

“Ironically, there are three @OC_Transpo bus drivers on this train that were delayed at Cyrville. At least one of them is now late for his run,” Wright-Gilbert noted.

Wright-Gilbert said the incident shows Transpo has made little headway on the rider communications problems that have been raised by her and others.

“Today’s lack of clear and timely communication from OC Transpo to its customers shows that there is still much work to do to ensure that customers are not left feeling stranded during outages and delays,” Wright-Gilbert said.

She said she intended to bring the incident to the attention of the transit commission and transportation boss John Manconi.

The City of Ottawa had no immediate details on the event.

Wright-Gilbert has been a strong critic of communications with the public on the new LRT. Last month, Transpo management said it will “continue to work to improve our communications and ensure alerts are communicated to customers as soon as possible,” after some LRT customers complained they were stranded at Tunney’s Pasture Station for up to an hour on Sept. 26 without a clue as to the problem.

“(Thursday), between 3 and 4 p.m., some customers may have experienced longer commute times on Line 1, ranging from 5 to 20 minute, depending on the location they boarded the train,” said Pat Scrimgeour, director of transit customer systems and planning, in a communiqué issued by the city.

Scrimgeour said the service had planned “external alerts” for its website and social media regarding delays on O-Train Line 1.

“However, we recognize that in this instance there was a delay in issuing the (social media) alerts …”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ued-lack-of-info-in-latest-lrt-breakdown

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Sure a 100m vehicle could be put together (a married pair). Whether you'd want to before you get close to maximum theoretical capacity is another matter. It really isn't a solution to current problems. One reason why it matters less for light rail is that the flat floor is constrained already by the wheels, so the benefits of passengers spreading out over time are less. And yeah, are the loading issues mostly from the stub end where everyone is transferring at one station? The problems will ease when the line is expanded, and with a very short ride from the west, spreading will happen less.

With longer vehicles, you need expanded maintenance facilities with 100m pits, lifts and gangways. You also need the ability to retrieve 100m vehicles from anywhere on the network.

That would be done as part of a Stage 3 order and beyond. At that point, I imagine we will be close to the 18,000 phpd and such vehicles would expand capacity further without having to expand platforms and add additional modules to new and existing train sets.

As for the maintenance facility, as I understand it now, they never decouple the trains because of couple-decouple issues anyway. Can anyone attest to that?

[MalcolmTucker]

They don't decouple on a regular basis - it doesn't work well in an automated way, but that doesn't mean they stay coupled for all purposes. I believe at FEDCO they talked about how it wasn't best practice to decouple to run one car trains, so it would be easy to see why one would be under that impression.

[Gat-Train]

How were they approved for substantial completion if they couldn't decouple the trains?

[MalcolmTucker]

Couldn’t versus won’t - the savings from only running one vehicle versus two is minimal while it takes labour to break them up and put them back together.

[roger1818]

While a variant that is 100m long could be created (probably the easiest way would be to design an end module that doesn't have a cab), the question is would any city buy such a module other than Ottawa? Alstom will have paid for much of the design cost of the Citadis Spirit in hopes that they can sell it to other cities (and they have already sold some to Metrolinx), and thus amortize the cost over more trains. Customizations that aren't likely to be sold to anyone else (such as a cabless end module) would need to be paid for by Ottawa one way or another. The question is, would it be worth the cost as compared to other options for increasing capacity?

[OTownandDown]

I was thinking of the train last night and have a couple of comments/questions:

1. I know the train is rated to 600 persons as a maximum capacity. Is that the capacity totally jammed in, crammed to the rafters?

2. What is the comfortable capacity. i.e. a single row of people standing, and all the seats are full?

3. What is the designed capacity per train during peak traffic. How many people are designed to be riding each train today at current peak loads?

4. In the future, how many people will be crammed into the trains at peak loads?

There's a big difference between theoretical jam density and the density that passengers feel comfortable at.

If the current designed load is less than the peak capacity of each train during the rush hour, it makes sense to have more seating and make it a more 'sit down' type train experience.

In the future, when the trains are reaching maximum load, it also makes sense to rearrange the existing seating, which isn't that hard to do, to have just the side benches, like a lot of metro systems do. This increases the total capacity, and also increases the 'comfort' capacity.

**I have no proof for any of this, it's just a logic exercise, of sorts.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

In the future, when the trains are reaching maximum load, it also makes sense to rearrange the existing seating, which isn't that hard to do, to have just the side benches, like a lot of metro systems do. This increases the total capacity, and also increases the 'comfort' capacity.

In Ottawa's case, it is harder, or rather, you don't gain that much. You just can't rearrange a good portion of the seating, as it is over the wheels. https://www.otrainfans.ca/confederation-trains/alstom-citadis-spirit

[corynv]

Originally Posted by roger1818

While a variant that is 100m long could be created (probably the easiest way would be to design an end module that doesn't have a cab), the question is would any city buy such a module other than Ottawa? Alstom will have paid for much of the design cost of the Citadis Spirit in hopes that they can sell it to other cities (and they have already sold some to Metrolinx), and thus amortize the cost over more trains. Customizations that aren't likely to be sold to anyone else (such as a cabless end module) would need to be paid for by Ottawa one way or another. The question is, would it be worth the cost as compared to other options for increasing capacity?

Metrolinx would. The Flexities they're getting for the cross-town each only have 1 cab on them, and they'll always be running in coupled units, the cab being at the end. Plus if more cities want a light metro like ottawa, having an option for more seating/standing room by taking a cab out of each LRV is something they can look at.